Jekyll and Hyde, but...

[PFree]

We all know we are in deep shit financially and gradually working our way through a very difficult period before we can invest once again in the team.

We have a lot of freebies and more players heading out of contract too, transition absolutely applies to us.

Its an emotional game though, and after a great away win at West Brom, we return to ground today with a real bump.

My point though is that despite a real lack consistency, we are ahead of a lot of much bigger clubs, many with significant history including time in the Premiership? Contentious but Sunderland, Watford, Stoke, Middlesbrough, West Brom, Ipswich, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday etc., you can argue many should be well ahead of us.

After last season, a top half finish for me would be real progress, okay 12th at the moment but despite everything that has gone on, when we clear more who don’t want to be here, we can build again?

Hard after today but stay with it, we will get there...

[Negan]

And on the flip side we should be miles ahead of the likes of Luton, Bournemouth, Millwall, Preston and Rotherham. I said it after the Millwall game I think Nige isn’t the man for the job, still stand by that. Even predicted us to beat either WBA or Reading because we are just that inconsistent. We haven’t improved, we just play better in some games. That isn’t improvement, that’s just us being better than the other team on the day. What we seen today is what we’ve seen from day 1 under Nige. Not convinced he’s the guy to rebuild this team in the summer once we lose half the first team. Would love to be wrong but I’d put good money on us having a new manager this time next season. 

[AshtonRobin21]

My issue with todays performance is that Reading are in a much worse financial position than us. They are limited to £12k per week maximum wages. 

They wanted to win the game more than we did. 

[Supersonic Robin]

4 minutes ago, PFree said:

We all know we are in deep shit financially and gradually working our way through a very difficult period before we can invest once again in the team.

We have a lot of freebies and more players heading out of contract too, transition absolutely applies to us.

Its an emotional game though, and after a great away win at West Brom, we return to ground today with a real bump.

My point though is that despite a real lack consistency, we are ahead of a lot of much bigger clubs, many with significant history including time in the Premiership? Contentious but Sunderland, Watford, Stoke, Middlesbrough, West Brom, Ipswich, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday etc., you can argue many should be well ahead of us.

After last season, a top half finish for me would be real progress, okay 12th at the moment but despite everything that has gone on, when we clear more who don’t want to be here, we can build again?

Hard after today but stay with it, we will get there...

The 2 points I'd make re comment in bold are:

1) There are also much smaller clubs who are ahead of us. Luton, Bournemouth, Brentford etc etc.

2) Of those clubs you list, are any of them actually "much bigger" than us in terms of potential? Or are they seen as bigger than us purely because they've achieved more than we have? (Sunderland I'll give you, but not convinced the other clubs there "should be well ahead of us").

[And Its Smith]

Getting a bit bored of the lack of money argument. Plenty of teams in this league have a lack of money but at least they look organised on semi consistent basis

[DaveInSA]

I think one of the problems we have with the squad, is that we have to all absolutely perform on the day. When we don't, like Reading away today, we're awful.

We're consistenly inconsistent. It's where we are. And it's actually OK.

Big rebuild in the summer with potentially 8 outgoing (maybe more), which makes room for maybe 10-12 incoming (assuming we sell Scott and Semenyo)

That 10-12 incoming is the bit that worries me. We should have them tee'd up already, with deals to be signed as soon as the window is opened.

But we're bristol city. And we'll leave it until september. And our first game we'll have three U15s playing

[DaveInSA]

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Getting a bit bored of the lack of money argument. Plenty of teams in this league have a lack of money but at least they look organised on semi consistent basis

And i'm bored of folks not understanding that we have a small number players eating up the majority of the wage bill. And THAT is why we can't bring in new faces and that is why the squad is imbalanced and we're inconsistent.

Those are the facts.

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, DaveInSA said:

And i'm bored of folks not understanding that we have a small number players eating up the majority of the wage bill. And THAT is why we can't bring in new faces and that is why the squad is imbalanced and we're inconsistent.

Those are the facts.

That’s your opinion.  Don’t give an opinion as a fact, it makes you look silly.  Look at the players we are able to select and ask yourself are they better or worse than recent performances.  When we are bad we are terrible. The squad is better than that.  

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

That’s your opinion.  Don’t give an opinion as a fact, it makes you look silly.  Look at the players we are able to select and ask yourself are they better or worse than recent performances.  When we are bad we are terrible. The squad is better than that.  

Absolutely.  The squad doesn’t explain the inconsistency.  We beat West Brom comfortably on Tuesday, doing a real job on them.  So how do you explain today?  They should hardly need motivating, but if they do then whose job is that?

All I ask is that our players give maximum effort in every match they play, and I don’t see that being the case.  The fact is that Pearson seems sadly unable to get the best out of them week in week out, which is I’m afraid a damning indictment of him as a manager.

[DaveInSA]

4 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Absolutely.  The squad doesn’t explain the inconsistency.  We beat West Brom comfortably on Tuesday, doing a real job on them.  So how do you explain today?  They should hardly need motivating, but if they do then whose job is that?

All I ask is that our players give maximum effort in every match they play, and I don’t see that being the case.  The fact is that Pearson seems sadly unable to get the best out of them week in week out, which is I’m afraid a damning indictment of him as a manager.

The squad does explain the inconsistency.

Your opinion that Pearson can't get the best out of them week in and week out, doesn't take into account that we play another team that stops us trying to do what we are good at.

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

My issue with todays performance is that Reading are in a much worse financial position than us. They are limited to £12k per week maximum wages. 

They wanted to win the game more than we did. 

…that only applies to players signed since they got into trouble, still got players not on anything like £12k…Joao, Meite, Ejaria on whopping wages (allegedly).

13 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

And i'm bored of folks not understanding that we have a small number players eating up the majority of the wage bill. And THAT is why we can't bring in new faces and that is why the squad is imbalanced and we're inconsistent.

Those are the facts.

Yep, when we finally get through this season, contracts ending, we can go back to a budget more aligned to Preston, Millwall, etc.  unfortunately our budget, considerably higher than them, is being inefficiently used because if when deals were signed.  This has really constrained our ability to trade, and a big reason we are having tough times.

But we are still midtable.  Guessing all the Nige out brigade will be back on here tonight.

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

The squad does explain the inconsistency.

Your opinion that Pearson can't get the best out of them week in and week out, doesn't take into account that we play another team that stops us trying to do what we are good at.

I don’t see anyone expecting Nige to get the best out of them every single game. That’s unrealistic in my opinion.  But recently most performances have fallen way below minimum requirements, interspersed with some good performances.  The squad is better than that.  Not sure how many games you get to see but it’s been really bad recently in the main 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Absolutely.  The squad doesn’t explain the inconsistency.  We beat West Brom comfortably on Tuesday, doing a real job on them.  So how do you explain today?  They should hardly need motivating, but if they do then whose job is that?

All I ask is that our players give maximum effort in every match they play, and I don’t see that being the case.  The fact is that Pearson seems sadly unable to get the best out of them week in week out, which is I’m afraid a damning indictment of him as a manager.

The whole league is inconsistent.

How do you explain today?  The better team won.  Just like we did on Tuesday.  Give Reading credit for being that bit sharper, that bit better in the final third / set plays.  Lots of things to pick City up on today, but sometimes an opponent has to be given credit for nullifying us.

We are a team in a rebuild.  Have you not learned anything other than to expect inconsistency in this phase?

I take heart we are mid-table, gradually getting players back fit, having seen a squad get stretched over a condensed fixture period.

So many fans started the season with “Nige has til the World Cup, if we are in relegation trouble, he’s got to go”.  Well, we aren’t in trouble, we’ve showed some great football at times this season, and some below par…but the focus is negativity.

What do people realistically expect?  Moon on a stick it seems.

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I don’t see anyone expecting Nige to get the best out of them every single game. That’s unrealistic in my opinion.  But recently most performances have fallen way below minimum requirements, interspersed with some good performances.  The squad is better than that.  Not sure how many games you get to see but it’s been really bad recently in the main 

Blige, I do

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

The whole league is inconsistent.

How do you explain today?  The better team won.  Just like we did on Tuesday.  Give Reading credit for being that bit sharper, that bit better in the final third / set plays.  Lots of things to pick City up on today, but sometimes an opponent has to be given credit for nullifying us.

We are a team in a rebuild.  Have you not learned anything other than to expect inconsistency in this phase?

I take heart we are mid-table, gradually getting players back fit, having seen a squad get stretched over a condensed fixture period.

So many fans started the season with “Nige has til the World Cup, if we are in relegation trouble, he’s got to go”.  Well, we aren’t in trouble, we’ve showed some great football at times this season, and some below par…but the focus is negativity.

What do people realistically expect?  Moon on a stick it seems.

Blige, I do

Anyone expecting a team where half of the players are inexperienced at this level to be at their max every game is stupid and not worth worrying about, in my opinion. I don’t see it but then I don’t read every thread 

[Sheltons Army]

The irony that some of Pearson’s loudest critics are the same who wouldnt have a criticism or word against wonderboy during his time here is just priceless

Thats after numerous transfer windows with batch of signings after signings , enough to build half a dozen sides , with , by some margin the biggest backing a City Manager has ever had , and patience and time , that no one else would be afforded including a record run of defeats

Pearsons budget and resources are like pocket money compared to Boy Wonder who could do no wrong, 

But now they want Pearson out 

 

Seriously hilarious

 

Still ,good to see that some have managed to resolve the ? technical problems ? that prevented them posting midweek

[BigAl&Toby]

34 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The whole league is inconsistent.

How do you explain today?  The better team won.  Just like we did on Tuesday.  Give Reading credit for being that bit sharper, that bit better in the final third / set plays.  Lots of things to pick City up on today, but sometimes an opponent has to be given credit for nullifying us.

We are a team in a rebuild.  Have you not learned anything other than to expect inconsistency in this phase?

I take heart we are mid-table, gradually getting players back fit, having seen a squad get stretched over a condensed fixture period.

So many fans started the season with “Nige has til the World Cup, if we are in relegation trouble, he’s got to go”.  Well, we aren’t in trouble, we’ve showed some great football at times this season, and some below par…but the focus is negativity.

What do people realistically expect?  Moon on a stick it seems.

Blige, I do

@Davefevs bilge? Bilge? I’ve not heard that for years!

Too much spent - no, wasted - on players who simply weren’t and aren’t good enough.

Is it about money though or mindset. Wages or wasters?

What I’d give to go back to the days of TC. No real money but my Christ what a mindset.

No fancy 4x4s with blacked out windows or AMG badges.

And this is progress…….

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

That’s your opinion.  Don’t give an opinion as a fact, it makes you look silly.  Look at the players we are able to select and ask yourself are they better or worse than recent performances.  When we are bad we are terrible. The squad is better than that.  

Pot kettle 

[tin]

1 hour ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

My issue with todays performance is that Reading are in a much worse financial position than us. They are limited to £12k per week maximum wages. 

They wanted to win the game more than we did. 

Are they, though? They were able to start Baba Rahman, who’s on loan from Chelsea on wages of £120k pw, and bring on Andy Carroll who won’t be on a pittance either. The way they’ve fiddled their financial position is a disgrace IMO. 

[And Its Smith]

36 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Pot kettle 

Don’t think I’ve ever written ‘that’s a fact’ after giving an opinion but happy for you to prove me wrong

[Maltshoveller]

1 hour ago, DaveInSA said:

And i'm bored of folks not understanding that we have a small number players eating up the majority of the wage bill. And THAT is why we can't bring in new faces and that is why the squad is imbalanced and we're inconsistent.

Those are the facts.

Another otib poster who does not know the difference between FACTS and an OPINION 

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

That’s your opinion.  Don’t give an opinion as a fact, it makes you look silly.  Look at the players we are able to select and ask yourself are they better or worse than recent performances.  When we are bad we are terrible. The squad is better than that.  

Is that in itself not being stated as fact then?

We have a squad that, on balance, is not that experienced at this level; and experienced players (Looking at Bentley and Kalas) who are simply not pulling weight.

We have a squad that, on paper, many neutrals predicted bottom 6 for a reason. 

For example, to give a better idea of both our squad depth and balance, lets say - hypothetically - we lose Atkinson, Scott, and Semenyo in Jan.

We'd basically be relegation candidates. Some individuals may be better than their performances today, but disagree on the squad. This whole mess is being caused due to wage and spending cuts, end of story. Look at what happened to Sheffield Wednesday once FFP hit - from play-off contenders to relegated in two seasons.

[AshtonRobin21]

7 minutes ago, tin said:

Are they, though? They were able to start Baba Rahman, who’s on loan from Chelsea on wages of £120k pw, and bring on Andy Carroll who won’t be on a pittance either. The way they’ve fiddled their financial position is a disgrace IMO. 

Let's put this another way...

A partnership of Andy Carroll and Shane Long did us on the counter-attack in the 93rd minute to score their 2nd goal. 

They had the desire to win, we never. 

Overall, we were a shambles. 

[And Its Smith]

28 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Is that in itself not being stated as fact then?

We have a squad that, on balance, is not that experienced at this level; and experienced players (Looking at Bentley and Kalas) who are simply not pulling weight.

We have a squad that, on paper, many neutrals predicted bottom 6 for a reason. 

For example, to give a better idea of both our squad depth and balance, lets say - hypothetically - we lose Atkinson, Scott, and Semenyo in Jan.

We'd basically be relegation candidates. Some individuals may be better than their performances today, but disagree on the squad. This whole mess is being caused due to wage and spending cuts, end of story. Look at what happened to Sheffield Wednesday once FFP hit - from play-off contenders to relegated in two seasons.

Shall we all write ‘in my opinion’ at the end of every sentence?!  Would get rather tiresome don’t you think? 

Edited October 22, 2022 by And Its Smith

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, tin said:

Are they, though? They were able to start Baba Rahman, who’s on loan from Chelsea on wages of £120k pw, and bring on Andy Carroll who won’t be on a pittance either. The way they’ve fiddled their financial position is a disgrace IMO. 

Happy to offer a bit of insight on this.

Rahman is covered gratis by Chelsea, owing to the owner being friends with Kia Joobrachian. Kia Joobrachian is also mutual friends with the now departed Marina Granovskaia.

Therefore Chelsea covered the whole wage, same for Drinkwater as well as Rahman last season. Plus Gourlay was at both Chelsea and latterly Reading, wonder if this strengthened ties further. Sometimes it's not what you know, and football feels quite susceptible to this!

You might also have added Hendrick, and Hendrick was quite good today. Was reported that Newcastle are covering 2/3 of his wages, as they are for Gayle at Stoke and other loanees or departees.

Carroll was rather low cost last season, unsure about this but all deals had to be in accordance with a) The £39m loss limit and b) Their squad remuneration cap as part of this of £16m. Otherwise the EFL would not have approved, they also still have a potential -6 if they are in breach of anything at all.

What is unknown is, are Reading in breach of any conditions that would see the suspended -6 triggered? Could be an instantly triggered deduction too...but wouldn't preclude from punishment for the offence itself.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[bcfc01]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

…that only applies to players signed since they got into trouble, still got players not on anything like £12k…Joao, Meite, Ejaria on whopping wages (allegedly).

 

I would say that them limited to paying 12k pw is not necessarily what the players get paid.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The £12k per week is an average too, according to one Reading fan I know.

Therefore theoretically, if you signed 3 players and one was £5k a week, one was £10k per week, well.£21k per week for the third- could be arguable?

[italian dave]

26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The £12k per week is an average too, according to one Reading fan I know.

Therefore theoretically, if you signed 3 players and one was £5k a week, one was £10k per week, well.£21k per week for the third- could be arguable?

Mmmmmm; hopefully with some significant additional criteria included, otherwise there’s a pretty obvious flaw with that arrangement. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Mmmmmm; hopefully with some significant additional criteria included, otherwise there’s a pretty obvious flaw with that arrangement. 

That's for new signings and squad average.

25 man squad max, remuneration not exceeding £16m.

EFL approval required for new signings.

[italian dave]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's for new signings and squad average.

25 man squad max, remuneration not exceeding £16m.

EFL approval required for new signings.

Ah, OK, makes a bit more sense. I had visions of you and I getting a call from Reading to sign for their U23s so that they could afford to pay someone else £35K! Thanks. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Ah, OK, makes a bit more sense. I had visions of you and I getting a call from Reading to sign for their U23s so that they could afford to pay someone else £35K! Thanks. 

There were some other bits too, no transfer fees, no loan fees, no signing on fees iirc, at one point they were limited to 12 month contracts but not now, think a cap on agents fees too. This also included renewal of existing contracts in terms of the length.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous