Are we the biggest underachievers in British football?

[ChippenhamRed]

I mentioned this on the Lincoln match thread but thought it deserved its own topic.

I’m 40 next year. In FOUR DECADES of supporting City, the high points amount to nothing more than a few third tier promotions and Cup wins against Liverpool and United. City fans of my generation have never seen us play in the top division, and we’re not even that young any more. It’s increasingly conceivable we never will. That’s about half the fanbase now.

This despite supporting a club in the 11th biggest city in the country. A football city, not a rugby city (check the attendances). A club with a (now) great stadium and first class training facilities. A club capable of taking 45,000 fans to a game two hours away against Walsall. A club with no bigger clubs within 100 miles.

Meanwhile in my lifetime I’ve witnessed Wigan, Barnsley, Huddersfield, Blackpool, Swansea, Swindon, Bournemouth, Luton and Reading all play in top division. Blackburn even won the bloody thing!

I increasingly hate the fact that I was born into supporting this club.

Pound for pound, are we the unluckiest fans in the country? Are we the biggest underachievers in British football?

[Sir Geoff]

Answered your own question. Add Wigan and Cardiff to that list.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Arguably, given Bristol’s demographic, we may be the most underachieving club in Europe.  It’s not even that we’ve had several near misses - only once in 40 years have we even got into the top six in the second tier.

[Bris Red]

Just now, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Arguably, given Bristol’s demographic, we may be the most underachieving club in Europe.  It’s not even that we’ve had several near misses - only once in 40 years have we even got into the top six in the second tier.

That for me is the truly shocking stat. Once in 40 years we have finished in the top 6 of the second tier, almost 2 decades of those being under Lansdown’s watch.
I would feel utterly embarrassed if i was him and had pumped the amount of dough in that he has.

[ChippenhamRed]

4 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Answered your own question. Add Wigan and Cardiff to that list.

Wigan are on the list! Good shout about Cardiff though.

[ChippenhamRed]

5 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Arguably, given Bristol’s demographic, we may be the most underachieving club in Europe.  It’s not even that we’ve had several near misses - only once in 40 years have we even got into the top six in the second tier.

Interesting point about Europe. I wonder if there is another city of similar size in one of the top European football countries that has floated around their second and third tiers like we have?

Any suggestions anyone?

[Bas's perfect hattrick]

6 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Answered your own question. Add Wigan and Cardiff to that list.

Add Brentford - a team that were more or less our level for many years, and are now yet another club who have steamed ahead of us

[archie andrews]

1 minute ago, Bas's perfect hattrick said:

Add Brentford - a team that were more or less our level for many years, and are now yet another club who have steamed ahead of us

Raise you with bradford and oldham..... 

[Wanderingred]

I agree with all those points. Last night was a real low point and highlights just what a rotten turd of a football club this is.

What makes it even more depressing is that we can’t even say that we’re building for the future and that our time will come - it won’t. I genuinely believe that we’re never going to do anything of note and our next bit of success will be another promotion from the third tier. 
 

 

[GrahamC]

I’m not remotely arguing with the OP’s general point but the GJ playoff final season was a far greater achievement than anything before, back to AD, or since.

Forget third tier promotions, we were one game away from the Prem.

No point in going over what happened on the day again but that season stands out a mile in terms of achievement.

[Coin-op]

the simple answer is yes.  We have had very poor decisions from those in charge .  Most of my adult life has seen the current owners in charge and until they go, we will never see anything improve.

[archie andrews]

6 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

I agree with all those points. Last night was a real low point and highlights just what a rotten turd of a football club this is.

What makes it even more depressing is that we can’t even say that we’re building for the future and that our time will come - it won’t. I genuinely believe that we’re never going to do anything of note and our next bit of success will be another promotion from the third tier. 
 

 

And knowing city that will be about 8 years time... 

[Olé]

28 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

This despite supporting a club in the 11th biggest city in the country.

11th is a new one on me, I thought we were about 8th or 9th at worst, or I'm sure there is a version where we're sixth if certain other "cities" don't roll in their urban sprawl from other towns.

On the main point, I'm starting to feel the same way as you. If we regress yet again this season there's absolutely no basis for all the stadium, HPC soundbites around us being setup for success.

[Bris Red]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I’m not remotely arguing with the OP’s general point but the GJ playoff final season was a far greater achievement than anything before, back to AD, or since.

Forget third tier promotions, we were one game away from the Prem.

No point in going over what happened on the day again but that season stands out a mile in terms of achievement.

Didn’t build on it though did we and thats the frustration. All before FFP was a thing we could have really built on that 07/08 season but Lansdown true to form dithered and dithered and all momentum was lost.

Poor football decision after poor football decision was made (appointing Keith ******* Millen in the process) and we slowly declined back to League 1 over the following 5 years.

For all the good he has done for the infrastructure of the club in recent years the buck stops with Steve Lansdown and his horrendous mis-management of the footballing side of the club. 
 

It’s been done to death on this forum over the years anyway, I’m tired of taking about it to be honest. The usual lot will pipe up about being ‘careful what you wish for’ but I couldn’t give a toss now I’m happy to take a gamble on new ownership. Just sell the club Steve, please.

[Kid in the Riot]

56 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Interesting point about Europe. I wonder if there is another city of similar size in one of the top European football countries that has floated around their second and third tiers like we have?

Any suggestions anyone?

I'm sure there was an article on this in the Guardian a few years back and the general conclusion was Bristol probably is the biggest underachieving city in European football. 

[ralphindevon]

58 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Interesting point about Europe. I wonder if there is another city of similar size in one of the top European football countries that has floated around their second and third tiers like we have?

Any suggestions anyone?

Not any particular club but Paris as a city has always struck me as under achieving.

A big important European capital city and they’ve only had one top tier team for decades, no European cup either. 

 

[ChippenhamRed]

48 minutes ago, Olé said:

11th is a new one on me, I thought we were about 8th or 9th at worst, or I'm sure there is a version where we're sixth if certain other "cities" don't roll in their urban sprawl from other towns.

On the main point, I'm starting to feel the same way as you. If we regress yet again this season there's absolutely no basis for all the stadium, HPC soundbites around us being setup for success.

I also thought we were higher - this was my source:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

[Numero Uno]

45 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Didn’t build on it though did we and thats the frustration. All before FFP was a thing we could have really built on that 07/08 season but Lansdown true to form dithered and dithered and all momentum was lost.

Poor football decision after poor football decision was made (appointing Keith ******* Millen in the process) and we slowly declined back to League 1 over the following 5 years.

For all the good he has done for the infrastructure of the club in recent years the buck stops with Steve Lansdown and his horrendous mis-management of the footballing side of the club. 
 

It’s been done to death on this forum over the years anyway, I’m tired of taking about it to be honest. The usual lot will pipe up about being ‘careful what you wish for’ but I couldn’t give a toss now I’m happy to take a gamble on new ownership. Just sell the club Steve, please.

You can't give Steve anything but credit for the personal wealth he pumps into the club BUT (and it's a massive BUT) his huge investment is generally papering over the cracks of his (as you say) horrendous mismanagement of football matters over the vast majority of a 20 plus year stretch.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

I’m not remotely arguing with the OP’s general point but the GJ playoff final season was a far greater achievement than anything before, back to AD, or since.

Forget third tier promotions, we were one game away from the Prem.

No point in going over what happened on the day again but that season stands out a mile in terms of achievement.

It was a great season and way ahead of expectation - but only in the context of where we were as a club at the time, and our long history of bouncing between the second and third tier.

And I’d stop short of calling it an “achievement” - ultimately, we didn’t win anything and started the following season in the same division.

A club with a history more aligned to the size of the city and the size of its fanbase wouldn’t call it an achievement.

[Bristol Oil Services]

51 minutes ago, Olé said:

 

On the main point, I'm starting to feel the same way as you. If we regress yet again this season there's absolutely no basis for all the stadium, HPC soundbites around us being setup for success.

The bricks and mortar (steel and concrete) are ok, set up for success, all we need now is, are, er, the people. 

[Super]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Wigan are on the list! Good shout about Cardiff though.

Wigan also have won a fa cup

[GrahamC]

Just now, ChippenhamRed said:

It was a great season and way ahead of expectation - but only in the context of where we were as a club at the time, and our long history of bouncing between the second and third tier.

And I’d stop short of calling it an “achievement” - ultimately, we didn’t win anything and started the following season in the same division.

A club with a history more aligned to the size of the city and the size of its fanbase wouldn’t call it an achievement.

Couldn’t disagree more.

This whole thread is testament to our under achievement, that season was pretty much the sole example of how an honest, hard working, selfless team, overachieved.

People always pick it apart, “we were lucky” “Lee Johnson shouldn’t have come on as a sub” “we didn’t capitalise on it” but bottom line is we went into that season looking to stay up (people forget now we finished second to Scunthorpe!) but came close to a remarkable achievement.

The years of underachievement under Wilson, McInnes & many, many others are far more deserving of criticism than this.

[Jeez]

5th biggest city in UK based on population (572k)in which case that definitely make us the 2nd biggest underachievers, the top spot undoubtedly goes to our friends the blue few.

[cidered abroad]

73 seasons of supporting City with 8 promotions and 7 relegations. Apart from the 1980's it been once up and once down in most decades. 

It seems that it is written somewhere in the heavens that we shall be a big fish in the third tier pond and a little one in the second.

Sod's law decrees that of every player we sign, about 75% of them will spend their City career in the treatment room. Thus we never see their best in a red shirt.

We have had periods of splashing large sums of cash on average players who are delighted to come here because only mediocrity is expected from them.

So no City fan can ever be too optimistic about success. Instead we end up praying that we don't get the dreaded "R". All I can see in the immediate future are trips next season to the little fishes in the Third. I only hope that I am proved so wrong in May 2023.

PS. We get probably the best manager since AD and he is almost helpless to turn us around because the owner, who made his billions in the Financial arena, allowed a complete cheat to take us almost into financial FFP oblivion. What a clown!

Edited November 9, 2022 by cidered abroad

[AppyDAZE]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Arguably, given Bristol’s demographic, we may be the most underachieving club in Europe.  It’s not even that we’ve had several near misses - only once in 40 years have we even got into the top six in the second tier.

When put as plainly as this, it's very difficult to argue with.

 

 

[ChippenhamRed]

32 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Couldn’t disagree more.

This whole thread is testament to our under achievement, that season was pretty much the sole example of how an honest, hard working, selfless team, overachieved.

People always pick it apart, “we were lucky” “Lee Johnson shouldn’t have come on as a sub” “we didn’t capitalise on it” but bottom line is we went into that season looking to stay up (people forget now we finished second to Scunthorpe!) but came close to a remarkable achievement.

The years of underachievement under Wilson, McInnes & many, many others are far more deserving of criticism than this.

I’m not criticising that season.

[Olé]

53 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I also thought we were higher - this was my source:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

Yep, that's exactly what I suspected, it's one of those lists which rolls in loads of urban sprawl thus basically adding in a load of other towns.

Laughable really. Sheffield adding in Rotherham. Newcastle adding in Gateshead and Tyneside. Southampton and Portsmouth simply added together.

May as well give Bristol all of Bath and WSM. Pretty sure on a single city basis Bristol is bigger than Nottingham, Sheffield and possibly Newcastle and Liverpool too.

[EDIT - 9th on here above Newcastle and Nottingham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_United_Kingdom and on this a good explanation of the different categorisations, we're 8th on Primary Urban Areas whatever that means: https://citymonitor.ai/environment/where-are-largest-cities-britain-1404] 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Olé

[Jacki]

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Answered your own question. Add Wigan and Cardiff to that list.

Brighton, Brentford, Hull, Watford….. the list goes on and on 

[Mr Popodopolous]

In some ways yes.

However @ChippenhamRed Blackburn for example, as until 1980 they had actually spent just give seasons outside the top two divisions. Comfortably outstripped our top flight period too by that point, let alone won Leagues and FA Cups in earlier days.

Might be on better ground with Blackpool and Huddersfield, lot closer to us historically I reckon..

31 minutes ago, Jacki said:

Brighton, Brentford, Hull, Watford….. the list goes on and on 

Of those, Brighton had a stint in the top flight in the late 1970s to early 1980s. 4 years...much like us. Bigger fanbase too, at times or easier to tap into.

For example when they got a) Back to a proper ground and b) Back to the Championship (2010-11 to 2011-12, Withdean to Amex) their attendances multiplied by 2.72 overnight!! Went up from 7.3k to 20k just like that. They've comfortably averaged over 20k since in even their struggles of 2014-15, would be interested to see our comparisons.

Watford had some success 1980s and I believe spent longer than 4 years in the top flight then...also reached an FA Cup final in 1984 and were only denied a European place post 1985.

Brentford and Hull totally agree on although I suspect without checking that the latter spent more time in the 2nd tier than us historically.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[2015]

Ourselves and Plymouth Argyle are probably the biggest underachievers in English football by a long way in terms of fanbase, infrastructure, catchment area