Lee Johnson

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

That a big generalisation.  In what way are you suggesting the end of last season was poor?  Odd games, all of them?

 

57 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Yeah you're right, not all of them. I thought we were very good against QPR and Middlesbrough. Unlucky vs Watford, Reading and Sheffield United.

11 points from our last 10 games last season. Great if you both saw positives from those games, but put bluntly, that's the kind of form that puts you in a relegation battle. Replicate that form over our next 10 games and we'll be looking for a new manager by early October.

Part of the reason I am so cynical about Nige's ability to get the best out of this group of players is that our best form of last season coincided with us drawing Man City in the cup. After that game our form fell off the edge of a cliff. 

That to me is pretty concerning. Basically players motivating themselves for a big game then downing tools, bar a decent effort at one of the worst Championship sides of all-time (QPR). 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

11 points from our last 10 games last season. Great if you both saw positives from those games, but put bluntly, that's the kind of form that puts you in a relegation battle. Replicate that form over our next 10 games and we'll be looking for a new manager by early October.

Part of the reason I am so cynical about Nige's ability to get the best out of this group of players is that our best form of last season coincided with us drawing Man City in the cup. After that game our form fell off the edge of a cliff. 

That to me is pretty concerning. Basically players motivating themselves for a big game then downing tools, bar a decent effort at one of the worst Championship sides of all-time (QPR). 

We had multiple injuries and a thin squad, our midfield at one point was so decimated that we were pairing King and Taylor-Clarke.

Played fine v Middlesbrough, threw it away but vs a side with Ramsey, Giles, Akpom and Archer (dunno how many played). A Middlesbrough side surging towards the top 4, top 3.

Did enough v Rotherham despite a dodgy penalty against.

Come from behind win at Stoke, so-so.

Very much should have beaten Rsdfing in terms of the dominance.

Would have got a point v Burnley if not for a mistake from someone who it was least expected from.

Oh yeah we had to play Pring at CB as Atkinson and Kalas were out, Klose had left and Baker had retired- thin on the ground! Think Naismith was also out hence why Pring wad shoehorned.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

11 points from our last 10 games last season. Great if you both saw positives from those games, but put bluntly, that's the kind of form that puts you in a relegation battle. Replicate that form over our next 10 games and we'll be looking for a new manager by early October.

Part of the reason I am so cynical about Nige's ability to get the best out of this group of players is that our best form of last season coincided with us drawing Man City in the cup. After that game our form fell off the edge of a cliff. 

That to me is pretty concerning. Basically players motivating themselves for a big game then downing tools, bar a decent effort at one of the worst Championship sides of all-time (QPR). 

Think it’s worth looking at injuries to key players around that time.  We’d lost Big Rob a few weeks earlier, lost Kal just before, then James for a few, Scott for a few, Williams season ender (but came back early), and Sykes suspended for 4.  Not forgetting the return of Kalas who looked imperious, who then got injured again.

Looks like the impact of having to play the likes of King and Taylor-Clarke in the centre of a Championship midfield for several games

Cam Pring, a huge source of threat having to play LCB with a much lesser threat (in the main) in Dasilva at LB.

Doesn’t look like lack of motivation to me.  Looks like being down to bare bones to me.

Results picked up as players returned.

When “we” do these x points from y games, why do we always take the worst case run to rationalise the opinion?  You mentioned the Man City game as the trigger, but chose the run of games after we’d beaten Blackpool, ie started with the loss at Luton, some games later.

Mr P you type quicker.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Yeah the injuries were killing us Dave. The whole Pring at CB that I see on here, I'm never convinced by that one. In a back 3 perhaps not in a CB pair but players can be versatile.

That Sykes 4 game retrospective ban was a joke too. Had almost forgotten about that but could be argued both his suspensions but especially the 2nd one, well statistically very unlucky!

Edited August 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Kid in the Riot]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We had multiple injuries and a thin squad

As we did under Dean Holden. Much, much worse under Dean, in fact. 

Regards injuries and blooding of youngsters, I'd be interested to see us compared against other teams across the division.  Do we have significantly longer injury lists than rival clubs, and are we blooding more academy youngsters than others?

Given the general economic austerity forcing clubs to play more homegrown talent and higher % of injuries in footballers these days, I suspect we are now comparable with our contempories. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

As we did under Dean Holden. Much, much worse under Dean, in fact. 

Regards injuries and blooding of youngsters, I'd be interested to see us compared against other teams across the division.  Do we have significantly longer injury lists than rival clubs, and are we blooding more academy youngsters than others?

Given the general economic austerity forcing clubs to play more homegrown talent and higher % of injuries in footballers these days, I suspect we are now comparable with our contempories. 

Possibly although the austerity seems to have gone into reverse a bit this summer combined with the liberalisation of the Work Permit rules, clubs have been looking at the latter with a bit of interest.

It feels like we have been cost cutting more than many, Gardner-Hickman our first loan in 3 years, but some comparable figures would be interesting. No outbound fees in January 2022, summer 2022 and most of January 2023 until Semenyo sold.

Would be interesting to see it post Covid though outside the Parachute clubs of course. The number of academy both new and lapsed but now playing seems high here and we should be proud.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

As we did under Dean Holden. Much, much worse under Dean, in fact. 

Regards injuries and blooding of youngsters, I'd be interested to see us compared against other teams across the division.  Do we have significantly longer injury lists than rival clubs, and are we blooding more academy youngsters than others?

Given the general economic austerity forcing clubs to play more homegrown talent and higher % of injuries in footballers these days, I suspect we are now comparable with our contempories. 

Holden had a deeper squad, injuries were less impactful.  There was the odd crisis, e.g. Hunt playing through injury because Sessegnon out.

Tinnions said last year (Fans Forum) that the Champ average is less than 2 players from academy in the match day squad.  Our average was 7 and we averaged 5.4 on the pitch (1.6 unused sub) .  Now that doesn’t mean all academy is “youngsters”, Vyner, Pring, O’Leary, but it’s a good proxy.  If we want to go with u21s then you can include non-Academy, e.g. Massengo, so it’s swings and roundabouts.  But we are well ahead of the vast majority.  Clubs like Blackburn run us close.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Holden had a deeper squad, injuries were less impactful.  There was the odd crisis, e.g. Hunt playing through injury because Sessegnon out.

Tinnions said last year (Fans Forum) that the Champ average is less than 2 players from academy in the match day squad.  Our average was 7 and we averaged 5.4 on the pitch (1.6 unused sub) .  Now that doesn’t mean all academy is “youngsters”, Vyner, Pring, O’Leary, but it’s a good proxy.  If we want to go with u21s then you can include non-Academy, e.g. Massengo, so it’s swings and roundabouts.  But we are well ahead of the vast majority.  Clubs like Blackburn run us close.

Although by January, February I thought we had numerous out? You keep the injury data though iirc Dave. Although this affected NP too between March and May.

[Shauntaylor85]

It’s really interesting speaking to football fans outside of the club. All feel Pearson is on last chance saloon with us. They don’t see the whole picture, but it does feel we are coming to a moment. Genuinely believe the owners will be thinking we are better than results show, where as fans can see the deep lying issues. I called out before that when I heard LJ was appointed in 2016 I walked away from the outside concourse at Charlton, I was livid. I knew and I STILL maintain that had we gotten over ourselves from the goal that never was, we would have now been a PL club, at least for one year only, with Warnock in charge. LJ was a crazy decision, probably the most marmite player in our club history. 

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Although by January, February I thought we had numerous out? You keep the injury data though iirc Dave. Although this affected NP too between March and May.

All games don’t fit onto a screen, so here it is from game 9 onwards.

[Cannybluff]

I'm on the fence this season. Was optimistic but when I was at the opening game it was clear that we had more depth, but had ultimately swapped Scott for Knight and Kalas for Dickie and that was about it from last season. If someone asked me if I'd like to swap back I'd definitely take it. 

I conclude that I see what Nigel has brought in terms of stability through FFP post covid but can't say I'm overly impressed with progression in terms of performances yet. 

[Shauntaylor85]

37 minutes ago, Cannybluff said:

I'm on the fence this season. Was optimistic but when I was at the opening game it was clear that we had more depth, but had ultimately swapped Scott for Knight and Kalas for Dickie and that was about it from last season. If someone asked me if I'd like to swap back I'd definitely take it. 

I conclude that I see what Nigel has brought in terms of stability through FFP post covid but can't say I'm overly impressed with progression in terms of performances yet. 

Highly unlikely we beat 14th again, just cannot see it. Goals win games and at present just cannot see where they are coming from. Happy to be proven wrong. What happened to pre season comments of a plan with Scott and a plan without?!

[bearded_red]

Another highly successful day.

[Randy Marsh II]

Looks like another club is finding out the man with 500 games but nothing on his CV is a squeaking charlatan. 

Be Yeovil in less than 3 years

Edited August 26, 2023 by Randy Marsh II

[petehinton]

Can’t be too far off the sack at this stage. The replies to their ft tweets say it all

[Shelton’s Love Gravy]

From the Hibs Fans Forum:-

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?360818-Johnson-Out/page162
 

The thread has been running since January and is now 162 pages long…

Edited August 26, 2023 by Shelton’s Love Gravy

[RUSSEL85]

There is decent football knowledge in there a good manager to boot, my issue is LJ tended to over analyse and concentrate on the 2% aspect of the game and avoid the 98%. If he stopped that, he does have it in him to be more successful than he has been.

[Glen hump]

22 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

There is decent football knowledge in there a good manager to boot, my issue is LJ tended to over analyse and concentrate on the 2% aspect of the game and avoid the 98%. If he stopped that, he does have it in him to be more successful than he has been.

Trouble with LJ is he thinks he’s the cleverest man in the room, needs to stop spouting bullshit and be more humble 

[IAmNick]

27 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

There is decent football knowledge in there a good manager to boot, my issue is LJ tended to over analyse and concentrate on the 2% aspect of the game and avoid the 98%. If he stopped that, he does have it in him to be more successful than he has been.

There's a bit of truth here but part of being a good manager is knowing where to focus your and other people's time and energy to get the best results.

If you can't do that, that's a fundamental failing of your job imo. That's a lot of what management is, whatever field you're in.

[Northern Red]

"I just hope the fanbase allow us the time because when we do turn it - and we will, I've been here a lot as a manager."

....

[Fordy62]

What was otib like after 5,6,7,8 defeats in a row?

[RUSSEL85]

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

What was otib like after 5,6,7,8 defeats in a row?

Well my My boot scootin' baby was drivin' me crazy! 

[bearded_red]

28 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

"I just hope the fanbase allow us the time because when we do turn it - and we will, I've been here a lot as a manager."

....

He’s so close to working it out here.

[Glen hump]

18 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

What was otib like after 5,6,7,8 defeats in a row?

I was busy painting bedsheets 

[One Team]

43 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

What was otib like after 5,6,7,8 defeats in a row?

Very toxic, most wanted him out. The Twentyman interview after the 8th defeat with SL of course legendary. 

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

There's a bit of truth here but part of being a good manager is knowing where to focus your and other people's time and energy to get the best results.

If you can't do that, that's a fundamental failing of your job imo. That's a lot of what management is, whatever field you're in.

This is key for me, and also where he fell down completely.

When he joined us I thought it was too early and that we needed a more experienced man. As I read about him I became more interested , he would go to other teams , in England and Europe and study other ideas and people. I thought that was brilliant, but not if you try them all at once. Someone like Pearson , experienced with strong ideas, studies everything and cherry picks details to form a plan. LJ found all the ideas but never once had a focused plan. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by 1960maaan

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

This is key for me, and also where he fell down completely.

When he joined us I thought it was too early and that we needed a more experienced man. As I read about him I became more interested , he would go to other teams , in England and Europe and study other ideas and people. I thought that was brilliant, but not if you try them all at once. Someone like Pearson , experienced with strong ideas, studies everything and cheery picks details to form a plan. LJ found all the ideas but never once had a focused plan. 

My completely unprofessional view is that I think deep down he has an underlying insecurity about himself on two fronts.

1. That his playing career featured so many games under his dad, he never really broke the umbilical cord, so he will always have doubts about his own playing ability.  (Do not mistake this as being my view of him as a player)

2. That he won’t do as well as his Dad as a manager.  To quote him (slightly paraphrased) when asked by a fellow City fan a few years back “my dad is a lower league manager, all he’s good at is man-management”.  There is some irony in that.

Now as a manager / head-coach he is desperate to differentiate himself from the type of manager his dad was, focusing on let’s call them “modern techniques”, when perhaps a bit less focus on that, e.g. measuring grass length (slight sarcasm from me) and a bit more focus on his dad’s man-management, might be time better spent.  Re grass length, I’m sure all his dad worried about was making sure the corners had longer grass than the rest of the pitch (at Beck’s request), I doubt he gave a toss whether it was 50mm or 51mm per se.

I get the impression he’d rather win a small tactical battle (game within a game) with his opposite number than win the actual match.

It’s a bit of a shame really, because he has a wealth of knowledge and ideas.  My returning thought is he’d really benefit from going and being a number 2 to someone, e.g. in PL.  I don’t think he would though.

 

[old_eastender]

2 hours ago, petehinton said:

Can’t be too far off the sack at this stage. The replies to their ft tweets say it all

"They're conceding goals for fun, there's no identity," referencing Hibs under LJ, where have we heard that before...

[Cityboy1954]

17 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

"They're conceding goals for fun, there's no identity," referencing Hibs under LJ, where have we heard that before...

Car salesman

[IAmNick]

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I get the impression he’d rather win a small tactical battle (game within a game) with his opposite number than win the actual match.

I think you're spot on here, and it often came through in post match interviews imo.

When we won he'd often say he'd been telling so and so to focus on low balls into the box all week so he knew we'd score from one, or that they'd be working on whatever specific piece of play we scored from.

When we lost it'd be the now infamous "we won on passes over 5 yards into their final third" or "we actually drew the thirtieth to seventieth minutes when I changed the formation" or whatever.

Personally I think you'd have to have the patience of a saint to have him as your no. 2! He'd probably be effective in the right set-up though with enough but not to much autonomy.