World Cup 2022 thread (football only)

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ok, so our 0-0 rate is 18.5%, these other countries are as I post above. So yes we have had proportionally more 0-0s than all of these.

I guess my question then is why does the rate of 0-0s constitute embarrassment? a 0-0 gives you exactly the same result as a 5-5 - you get 1 point and neutral goal difference in a group game, and you get extra time plus possible penalties in a knockout game. Is it just entertainment value you're concerned with?

Quite. Also, I'm struggling to think of a major tournament winner that hasn't been built on a very strong defensive unit. 

Also, it is very unusual for winners of the world cup to win all seven games. Last team to do that was Brazil in 2002 I think. 

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, pillred said:

Depending on the results in group A this afternoon it might be beneficial to finish second in our group surely England wouldn't be tempted to settle for a draw against Wales would they? 

Expect they would

[pillred]

Just now, BigTone said:

Expect they would

That's what worries me.

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, pillred said:

That's what worries me.

You and me both

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Quite. Also, I'm struggling to think of a major tournament winner that hasn't been built on a very strong defensive unit. 

Also, it is very unusual for winners of the world cup to win all seven games. Last team to do that was Brazil in 2002 I think. 

I think it is fair to say "England have too many 0-0s at tournaments, I don't find it entertaining". That's a reasonable criticism, and is in my opinion probably fair. Certainly in my lifetime I can think of a handful of truly entertaining England World Cup games, and they don't all end in a win. There's Netherlands in Euro 96, Germany Euro 2020(1), Panama in 2018, and maybe  Argentina 98 (which we drew then lost).

I wonder, if we drew every knockout game 0-0 and progressed on penalties each time, to win the final 0-0 and then again on penalties...would people complain? I suspect the answer is yes, it would certainly be commented on, we'd probably see reports and discussion similar to the Rugby win in 2003 which England won through relatively boring/attritional mauls and the kicking prowess of Wilkinson. It's a win, and England's name is on the trophy, but were those performances entertaining? Probably not if we are honest.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Quite. Also, I'm struggling to think of a major tournament winner that hasn't been built on a very strong defensive unit. 

Also, it is very unusual for winners of the world cup to win all seven games. Last team to do that was Brazil in 2002 I think. 

Was chatting to my mate the other day about this. Brazil, despite being famed for their flair, often had a great pair of defenders and a DM who never got enough praise. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 genuine CMs with Mount in front won't serve us so well vs top sides IMO.

Either play Mount as part of a fluidish front 3 or drop him for Foden say.

Still think Rice, Foden, Bellingham in CM. Rice the middle of the 3 or a sort of 4-1-4-1 would give us the right mix.

[Super]

18 minutes ago, RedRock said:

I haven’t sat through countless boring, pass sideways, backwards friendlies and qualifying games for f*****g Handbrake Henderson to turn up and play 90 minutes in the actual tournament. 

We had more control the other night when he came on. We were in danger of losing that game.

[ExiledAjax]

Gakpo the big transfer in January?

[Kid in the Riot]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Gakpo the big transfer in January?

Not sure he'd fit within our wage budget.

[The Batman]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was chatting to my mate the other day about this. Brazil, despite being famed for their flair, often had a great pair of defenders and a DM who never got enough praise. 

Solid defensive midfielders are always key. 

That brazil side had Gilberto Silva. A fantastic player who went so far under the radar in arsenal's invincible season, its unreal. 

As you say, for all the players in front of him like Ronaldo, Henry, Pires, Rivaldo etc, he was the reason they were allowed to play that way because of the safety net he provided. 

Same with Makelele with the teams he played for. 

[The Original OTIB]

Clumsy, at least a definite pen

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Not sure he'd fit within our wage budget.

Just show him the HPC.

[BigTone]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

Just show him the HPC.

Or Chasers

[RedRock]

15 minutes ago, Super said:

We had more control the other night when he came on. We were in danger of losing that game.

Interesting debate though, pundit on the radio justifying Southgate’s slow, ponderous football by saying we haven’t got the players to deliver a winning side by playing the new, entertaining ‘basketball’ gung-ho style of play. 

I think we have, but Southgate has been stamping his mark on our national game for so long now, I suppose it’s difficult to switch to consistently deliver anything other than the slow-ball game during this tournament.

Let’s hope he has made the right call - he’s been given the time and a decent set of players - and this is the tournament we deliver the trophy.
 

 

[DolmanGaz]

**** off valencia you dirty cheat. why aren't VAR and ref's penalising players for simulation and cheating? oh, that's it. they don't care.

[Open End Numb Legs]

I think we need to see the balance of the full side before judging whether Henderson is the right call.

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Interesting debate though, pundit on the radio justifying Southgate’s slow, ponderous football by saying we haven’t got the players to deliver a winning side by playing the new, entertaining ‘basketball’ gung-ho style of play. 

I think we have, but Southgate has been stamping his mark on our national game for so long now, I suppose it’s difficult to switch to consistently deliver anything other than the slow-ball game during this tournament.

Let’s hope he has made the right call - he’s been given the time and a decent set of players - and this is the tournament we deliver the trophy.
 

 

I'm somewhere in the middle on it.

I think for differing reasons vs Spain, Brazil, and maybe France we might be pushed back, outmanouvered in midfield if we took it to them. Not to say we can't be positive without the ball so to speak but vs several sides I think trying to dominate all areas would leave us with a problem.

However that's for deep into the tournament, I think a genuinely positive 4-3-3 would serve us well.

         Pickford

       Back 4

Foden Rice Bellingham

           Kane

Then perhaps perm 2 of Saka, Grealish, Mount, Sterling and Maddison, maybe even keep the basic shape the same but just tweak it and the personnel a bit depending on opposition.

Whether we win the tournament hard to say.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sir Geoff]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm somewhere in the middle on it.

I think for differing reasons vs Spain, Brazil, and maybe France we might be pushed back, outmanouvered in midfield if we took it to them. Not to say we can't be positive without the ball so to speak but vs several sides I think trying to dominate all areas would leave us with a problem.

However that's for deep into the tournament, I think a genuinely positive 4-3-3 would serve us well.

         Pickford

       Back 4

Foden Rice Bellingham

           Kane

Then perhaps perm 2 of Saka, Grealish, Mount, Sterling and Maddison, maybe even keep the basic shape the same but just tweak it and the personnel a bit depending on opposition.

Whether we win the tournament hard to say.

If you play Foden, surely it has to be at the expense of either Saka or Sterling not Mount. Can't remember him playing midfield for his club. He is more effective coming in from out wide.

[Sir Geoff]

Personally think the team will be

                            Pickford

           Walker Stones.  Maguire

                             Phillips

                 Henderson.   Bellingham 

Rashford.                                         Grealish

                    Kane.           Sterling

 

 

 

 

 

[cidercity1987]

Strange to have Netherlands on ITV1 and the meaningful game on ITV4

[NewquayRed]

Look well organised this Senegal team, wouldn't fancy them in the next round 

[DolmanGaz]

Seems likely 433

walker in for trippier

Defensively minded midfield with henderson rice and bellingham

Foden and rashford either side of kane

[2015]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ok, so our 0-0 rate is 18.5%, these other countries are as I post above. So yes we have had proportionally more 0-0s than all of these.

I guess my question then is why does the rate of 0-0s constitute embarrassment? a 0-0 gives you exactly the same result as a 5-5 - you get 1 point and neutral goal difference in a group game, and you get extra time plus possible penalties in a knockout game. Is it just entertainment value you're concerned with?

Personally, I think the general number of games played and the number of trophies won is the bigger embarrassment. Looking at your figures we are far closer to Netherlands, Belgium and Portugal than to France, Germany or Spain in that regard, and I know that most of us and those at the FA would think England are more in the category of those last three countries than the first 

I was wrong about it being embarassing, but it's certainly not a great record and neither is the trophy tally.

What is true is that major tournaments are usually won by those who have a solid defence first, but i'm just correlating the fact in most major tournaments we have a very average 0-0 game in us which isn't exactly the most confidence boosting for the team. I just want to see England do well and not be let down time after time with drab performances like Friday's was and how the Nations League was.

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I was wrong about it being embarassing, but it's certainly not a great record and neither is the trophy tally.

What is true is that major tournaments are usually won by those who have a solid defence first, but i'm just correlating the fact in most major tournaments we have a very average 0-0 game in us which isn't exactly the most confidence boosting for the team. I just want to see England do well and not be let down time after time with drab performances like Friday's was and how the Nations League was.

That's all fair.

I guess I'd just say to focus on the 6-2 v Iran or the 6-1 v Panama rather than the 0-0s. I understand that as fans we focus on the most recent result, but there are bright spots of joy to be found in these tournaments, even if they are scattered amongst the drab beige of the 0-0.

For my two pence - I'll be surprised if England v Wales is 0-0.

Edited November 29, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[Super]

Need to get Fam on now.

[2015]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

That's all fair.

I guess I'd just say to focus on the 6-2 v Iran or the 6-1 v Panama rather than the 0-0s. I understand that as fans we focus on the most recent result, but there are bright spots of joy to be found in these tournaments, even if they are scattered amongst the drab beige of the 0-0.

For my two pence - I'll be surprised if England v Wales is 0-0.

Now you've said it

[Sir Geoff]

No one on TV or VAR questioning Ecuador's goal. The player allegedly on the line was behind it. Therefore off the pitch. Surely can't be playing the forward onside if he is off the pitch. One for the referees here.

[Never to the dark side]

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-11-29/cardiff-pub-bans-english-fans-from-watching-wales-v-england

[Super]

Come on Senegal!