Andy King at CB experiment should never happen again…

[The Swan and Cemetery]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

We really need to understand the recent selection issues with Rob.

Agree seems odd. Wonder if it’s mental preparedness rather than physical? Didn’t he pull out of a game late on last season as not feeling ready to play, or have I imagined/misremembered that? Definitely get the vibe that NP doesn’t want to be picking AK at CB but a combination of various travails across TK/TK/RA means he feels he has to. 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

As for playing out from the back, we always seem to be one slip from disaster. Playing high risk balls around your own penalty area just adds to the chances of giving away silly and unnecessary goals.

I don’t really recall any hairy moments playing out from the back today.  Happy to be reminded, but I thought we played when we could today and went long when we couldn’t.

[Dr Balls]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t really recall any hairy moments playing out from the back today.  Happy to be reminded, but I thought we played when we could today and went long when we couldn’t.

@Davefevswe still don’t look good at doing it and a repeat of the first opposition goal at home this season (scored by Sunderland and gift wrapped by Naismith) never seems far away. We did eventually play long but unfortunately it was often aimless and just easy pickings for the Stoke defence. Both teams were poor today, but their defence was far superior to ours and didn’t give away silly goals. One other criticism I would make of much of our play today was how many times we missed decent crossing opportunities by not taking it on first time. Could be a confidence thing but so many missed chances to cross the ball into the box quickly and put pressure on their defence.

[Denbury Red]

3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Yep. Both seemed to want to defend exactly the same patch of turf. 

But I expect Nige will say neither were responsible as they are both his darlings who can do no wrong!

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

One other criticism I would make of much of our play today was how many times we missed decent crossing opportunities by not taking it on first time.

Agree  

[Charlie BCFC]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We really need to understand the recent selection issues with Rob.  He was in fine form earlier this season, but had one or two poorer games and then doesn’t get into the 18 today.  Culminating with Nige saying what he did on BBCRB this evening.

I don’t get it.

I sort of got last week with King guiding Tanner through, but I also thought why not just play Tanner / Naismith / Atkinson.

I really want to see Atkinson with Pring outside of him.

Hope it resolves itself.

Find it strange because he was supposed to start that Swansea fan but dropped out because of illness and hasn’t started a league game since. I can understand him not starting today as Naismith and Pring worked well for the Rotherham game but to not be in the squad is bizarre 

[Topper 123]

Can anyone tell me what is gained by 20 passes across and around our own box and keeper going out wide leaving an empty net only to pump it up the pitch in the end anyway ? Let defenders defend and the midfield provide . This football if you can call it that is slow and boring and very Predictable ,I’m not a fan of wingbacks because you end up with a full back that can’t defend or attack the wing and deliver a decent cross so what’s the point of moving a man out of position. Let’s see centre halfs back in the middle or klose and Naismith with Pring and another as full backs 

[Major Isewater]

13 hours ago, Jacki said:

Exactly right. You play King at centre half when you’re desperate and have no one else. Or you do it in the middle of a game when you have an injury. Playing him there through choice is a stupid thing to do and we paid for it today.

What I don’t understand is how, after a 4 week break and with other centre halves fit, we end up with Pearson thinking he’s the best option. Klose and Atkinson are both available and were both signed by Pearson so why the hell aren’t they playing? It’s a ridiculous situation and I have no doubt it cost us points today. 

May be it’s to highlight to Lansdown that we need a new centre back ? 

[Abingdon Red]

We looked better when it was a back 3 of Pring Vyner and Tanner.  If you need to, swap Tanner with Atkinson but I have no idea why King is suddenly our first choice CB.

[Harry]

13 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

TBH James was as much to blame for their winner. 

Indeed. 
It was a tandem-combination of utter shitness from the all-conquering golden boys of Nigel’s last ever successful season, 9 years ago. 
Since when, both had only played less than 100 games in the 8 years between then and joining us. 
2 players who are only here because of our manager. 2 players who’ve not proven anything in football since 2013. 2 players who’ve not proven anything since joining us. 2 players who are slow and have been rarely available. 

Jeez - James not only got in the way of King in our own 6 yard box for the 2nd goal, he also blocked a goal bound shot from Semenyo in the opposition 6 yard box. Since when has Matty James EVER ventured inside the opposition 6 yard box! Get out the effing way you lump of useless ex-Leicester crump. And take yer mate Kingy with you. I’ve had enough of the pair of them! 
 

Nige seems to think he can recreate history, get his Leicester old boys together and make a tilt for the championship title. 
Well you can’t Nige. All 3 of you have proven nothing since 2013. You are all dining out on your 1 successful season. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Harry

[Antman]

49 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

May be it’s to highlight to Lansdown that we need a new centre back ? 

quite possibly, but i recall previous managers employing that tactic with Lansdown and it ended badly...

[Jacki]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

May be it’s to highlight to Lansdown that we need a new centre back ? 

That thought did occur to me too. When it directly costs us points though it’s a pretty ridiculous thing to do though, imo. 

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

May be it’s to highlight to Lansdown that we need a new centre back ? 

Making a point??

Not a good way of,well,making a point.

I remember Cotts not filling the bench to 'make a point'....

[Harry]

Just now, Son of Fred said:

Making a point??

Not a good way of,well,making a point.

I remember Cotts not filling the bench to 'make a point'....

Making such a point is always a desperate final act of a stubborn manager. 
Whilst Cotterill could legitimately be said to have had a good point to argue (ie money was available but the signings were shit), Nige has no such cause for complaint. He knows we don’t have money. He is responsible for who he wants to sign. What point would he be trying to make? Aside from “between myself and the recruitment team and the coaching staff, we’ve not been good enough”. 

[Lack of Action Man]

21 minutes ago, Harry said:

Making such a point is always a desperate final act of a stubborn manager. 
Whilst Cotterill could legitimately be said to have had a good point to argue (ie money was available but the signings were shit), Nige has no such cause for complaint. He knows we don’t have money. He is responsible for who he wants to sign. What point would he be trying to make? Aside from “between myself and the recruitment team and the coaching staff, we’ve not been good enough”. 

There has to be more to it than we’ve been made aware of. It’s truly baffling isn’t it? 
 

 

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

May be it’s to highlight to Lansdown that we need a new centre back ? 

If the Club had, or were in the position to spend money, Lansdown has hardly ever said no. I do think he would back NP if he could. As it is we are playing an ageing MF as CB while a £1.6m CB sits on his hands. Atkinson had played every game until Illness, so there is no reason to think he wouldn't have kept his place otherwise. IMO King as CB hasn't been a massive success , but I kind of understand the thinking of wanting more ball players  in the team, and his ability on the ball helps in CMF. 
It will be interesting to see if he sticks with it after yesterday. First goal King is getting bullied as the ball is in the air, then turns his back. IMO Atkinson gets a head on that and we don't concede . The 2nd is a weak stretch for the ball and between King and James they weakly give up the ball. Not sure what RA has done to upset Nige, but that naughty step seems to get a lot of rotation of players.
I was told yesterday that Semenyo was off this window, annoyingly I didn't get the chance to ask about the details or source. But there are doubts over Pearson and new players. Happy to say that some may not live up to expectations, but signing 2 Was/FBs then starting MF's & Strikers ahead of them begs questions. He seems to try and fit players in rather than play them in more comfortable positions or leave them out. 

I don't see Pearson job being in any danger while we stay away from the bottom 3, but I do think the conversation would have been had at Boardroom level. The Club are more stable now, or getting there, so maybe they have a timeline for change. A new voice or ideas may be needed to get the best out of the squad, but I think we will have to wait.

[Floatn Over]

Really hope I’m wrong but does the “trust” comment relate to Nige finding out RA has been speaking with his agent about a route out ?

It needs sorting out regardless as at this level selection has to be fully fit square pegs into square holes.

[eardun]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t really recall any hairy moments playing out from the back today.  Happy to be reminded, but I thought we played when we could today and went long when we couldn’t.

I agree with this. I think it is more in the fans’ minds now just because it has happened in the past. Certainly behind me yesterday a fan was audibly panicking every time we did it even though we had it under control! 

[GrahamC]

23 minutes ago, eardun said:

I agree with this. I think it is more in the fans’ minds now just because it has happened in the past. Certainly behind me yesterday a fan was audibly panicking every time we did it even though we had it under control! 

Totally & it was obvious that with Souttar 6ft 6 & neither of our 2 strikers no taller than 5ft 10, it was futile to go aerial in his direction but to hit channel stuff when we did (though I’m not sure Max got that memo).

There was a lot to be dispirited about yesterday but I never thought we were in much danger when passing it around at the back. King was at fault for the first goal but his use of the ball was pretty decent.

[kiwicolin]

As Pearson said in his interview, after the match, on radio " you should be asking this question . Why do I have to play King at centre back ? " 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by kiwicolin

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Magger1 said:

Can anyone tell me what is gained by 20 passes across and around our own box and keeper going out wide leaving an empty net only to pump it up the pitch in the end anyway ? Let defenders defend and the midfield provide . This football if you can call it that is slow and boring and very Predictable ,I’m not a fan of wingbacks because you end up with a full back that can’t defend or attack the wing and deliver a decent cross so what’s the point of moving a man out of position. Let’s see centre halfs back in the middle or klose and Naismith with Pring and another as full backs 

Because on several occasions yesterday we did work it through midfield and got ourselves into promising positions.  It wasn’t our passing around and the back that was our downfall yesterday was it?

You might argue the risk / reward of having another “footballer” in the back 3 (King) isn’t worth it when we concede a goal like we did yesterday.  I won’t argue back on that.  I see no reason why we couldn’t have played:

Vyner / Naismith / Atkinson

Tanner / Vyner / Naismith

But I do think we played some decent-enough football at times yesterday against an Alex Neil side hell bent on ruining any football.

3 hours ago, Harry said:

Indeed. 
It was a tandem-combination of utter shitness from the all-conquering golden boys of Nigel’s last ever successful season, 9 years ago. 
Since when, both had only played less than 100 games in the 8 years between then and joining us. 
2 players who are only here because of our manager. 2 players who’ve not proven anything in football since 2013. 2 players who’ve not proven anything since joining us. 2 players who are slow and have been rarely available. 

Jeez - James not only got in the way of King in our own 6 yard box for the 2nd goal, he also blocked a goal bound shot from Semenyo in the opposition 6 yard box. Since when has Matty James EVER ventured inside the opposition 6 yard box! Get out the effing way you lump of useless ex-Leicester crump. And take yer mate Kingy with you. I’ve had enough of the pair of them! 
 

Nige seems to think he can recreate history, get his Leicester old boys together and make a tilt for the championship title. 
Well you can’t Nige. All 3 of you have proven nothing since 2013. You are all dining out on your 1 successful season. 

I’m not sure what you are expecting from James?  His role playing the midfield we are currently using is about keeping position, allowing others to get forward, etc.  Far too easy to pick up on isolated incidents.  You’re better than your comments above Harr.

[AppyDAZE]

36 minutes ago, kiwicolin said:

As Pearson said in his interview, after the match, on radio " you should be asking this question . Why do I have to play King at centre back ? " 

 

 

 

 

 

If the Radio Bristol interviewer didn't look up and say "well, why do you have to play King at centre back?

he missed a trick there.

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

Indeed. 
It was a tandem-combination of utter shitness from the all-conquering golden boys of Nigel’s last ever successful season, 9 years ago. 
Since when, both had only played less than 100 games in the 8 years between then and joining us. 
2 players who are only here because of our manager. 2 players who’ve not proven anything in football since 2013. 2 players who’ve not proven anything since joining us. 2 players who are slow and have been rarely available. 

Jeez - James not only got in the way of King in our own 6 yard box for the 2nd goal, he also blocked a goal bound shot from Semenyo in the opposition 6 yard box. Since when has Matty James EVER ventured inside the opposition 6 yard box! Get out the effing way you lump of useless ex-Leicester crump. And take yer mate Kingy with you. I’ve had enough of the pair of them! 
 

Nige seems to think he can recreate history, get his Leicester old boys together and make a tilt for the championship title. 
Well you can’t Nige. All 3 of you have proven nothing since 2013. You are all dining out on your 1 successful season. 

 

Harsh - but probably fair. In an afternoon of below-par performances, James and King were the nadir.

I sometimes think older managers favour 30+ players because they have more in common with them than the 20-somethings kids with slang words the manager doesn't know and their baffling taste in music and haircuts.

The older pros probably are family men who, like the manager, will've moved about a bit. Managers can relate to them more as people. 

Pearson certainly isn't the only manager who seems to keep players on who he's worked with before, for partly nostalgic reasons. 

[Super]

Atkinson needs to be more enthusiastic apparently. 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

25 minutes ago, Super said:

Atkinson needs to be more enthusiastic apparently. 

He looked pretty enthusiastic when he scored before the World Cup break…

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Harsh - but probably fair. In an afternoon of below-par performances, James and King were the nadir.

I sometimes think older managers favour 30+ players because they have more in common with them than the 20-somethings kids with slang words the manager doesn't know and their baffling taste in music and haircuts.

The older pros probably are family men who, like the manager, will've moved about a bit. Managers can relate to them more as people. 

Pearson certainly isn't the only manager who seems to keep players on who he's worked with before, for partly nostalgic reasons. 

I don’t think nostalgia has anything to do with these signings, more to do with knowledge of these guys and the fact NP can trust them to implement his methods, as he said King is ‘like having a coach on the pitch’ ( should have parked him in front of the goal perhaps ?) 

Evidently they are on their way down footballing wise otherwise they would be playing elsewhere but King and James are class and add value to the club. 
 

[Northern Red]

And now we're on to just making things up. Brilliant.

Christ this place is a ******* shambles after a defeat.

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I don’t think nostalgia has anything to do with these signings, more to do with knowledge of these guys and the fact NP can trust them to implement his methods, as he said King is ‘like having a coach on the pitch’ ( should have parked him in front of the goal perhaps ?) 

Evidently they are on their way down footballing wise otherwise they would be playing elsewhere but King and James are class and add value to the club. 
 

 

Sadly, because I think Andy King is a top bloke and as a fellow City fan I don't like to criticise him, I do not think he adds "class and value" to the club.  He's a squad player at most, and I'd not have played him in CD when Rob Atkinson (or even Klose) was available.

James is a bit different. He's slightly younger and we have no one else to fulfil that "screen the defence" deep midfield role. He has looked quite handy on occasions, but there's no way to view yesterday than as one of his worst games in a red shirt and certainly he directly contributed to gifting that ultra-soft second goal to them. 

I was agreeing with @Harry because he was accurate to say they'd done very little in 8 years. Every manager signs players he's familiar with, but you kind of wish the net had been thrown a bit further in this case. 

[Harry]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not sure what you are expecting from James?  His role playing the midfield we are currently using is about keeping position, allowing others to get forward, etc.  Far too easy to pick up on isolated incidents.  You’re better than your comments above Harr.

I know mate. I know. 
I just became very angry again this morning having seen this image below as how we lost that game. I needed to get something off my chest. And King James was the obvious target

 

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Harry said:

I know mate. I know. 
I just became very angry again this morning having seen this image below as how we lost that game. I needed to get something off my chest. And King James was the obvious target

 

That’s a very biased cropped image!