Today`s games

[chinapig]

8 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Fair enough.

I dont have a problem with Ipswich fans to the point I wish them ill purely because a former employee works for their club.

The idea that any future manager is going to be hamstrung by MA is, IMO, ridiculous. 

Out of interest- please can you specify that at what point we can move on from MA? Is it after Jan transfer window or next season? The one after? Never?

Please be specific in your answer.

Take a look at our latest accounts. They are dreadful despite the fact that Gould and Pearson have already reduced our costs by £10m. We escaped an otherwise inevitable FFP points deduction as a result.

Further cost reductions are going to be needed to get our annual losses down to a manageable level. At that point we could be said to have repaired the damage Ashton caused.

We can assume there is a forward financial plan though that isn't going to be in the public domain so as a rule of thumb I suggest it would take as long to fix the damage as it did to create it, all other things being equal. Bear in mind that FFP is measured over a rolling 3 year period also.

Suffice to say we can expect substantial , if lower, losses in the current financial year. Though the unknown there is whether, when and for how much we sell any players for big money, which could reduce the losses and the time taken to fix our financial position.

[CyderInACan]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

The ***t who had a huge say in putting this club onits knees financially and then ran as fast as he could from the mess he created, is now their CEO. Surprised you didn’t know.  

Running towards adversity. They certainly are. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Just now, chinapig said:

Take a look at our latest accounts. They are dreadful despite the fact that Gould and Pearson have already reduced our costs by £10m. We escaped an otherwise inevitable FFP points deduction as a result.

Further cost reductions are going to be needed to get our annual losses down to a manageable level. At that point we could be said to have repaired the damage Ashton caused.

We can assume there is a forward financial plan though that isn't going to be in the public domain so as a rule of thumb I suggest it would take as long to fix the damage as it did to create it, all other things being equal. Bear in mind that FFP is measured over a rolling 3 year period also.

Suffice to say we can expect substantial , if lower, losses in the current financial year. Though the unknown there is whether, when and for how much we sell any players for big money, which could reduce the losses and the time taken to fix our financial position.

Ok- but the losses were there pre MA and were significant. One year under MA was a profit.

So , just to clarify and so I completely understand your points- when exactly can we move on from MA ( and LJ) being responsible for all our ongoing and future problems?

Is it the end of this current window ( particularly if we sell someone signed or developed when MA was here) or the end of this season or next or the one after??? At what point? 

It's not a trick question.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

30 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Take a look at our latest accounts. They are dreadful despite the fact that Gould and Pearson have already reduced our costs by £10m. We escaped an otherwise inevitable FFP points deduction as a result.

Further cost reductions are going to be needed to get our annual losses down to a manageable level. At that point we could be said to have repaired the damage Ashton caused.

We can assume there is a forward financial plan though that isn't going to be in the public domain so as a rule of thumb I suggest it would take as long to fix the damage as it did to create it, all other things being equal. Bear in mind that FFP is measured over a rolling 3 year period also.

Suffice to say we can expect substantial , if lower, losses in the current financial year. Though the unknown there is whether, when and for how much we sell any players for big money, which could reduce the losses and the time taken to fix our financial position.

I am still wary about whether in the fullness of time our FFP compliance or methods of it will stand up to scrutiny as a new body was only just appointed in early December.

They are now scrutinizing all EFL clubs and their FFP/P&S submissions so it will be interesting to see if they object to clubs and their returns in the coming months, years- would think the Covid period if not analysed correctly is very much open to abuse FFP wise.

A general note on the process. Clubs submit their numbers.and their FFP numbers each year, to the League and I guess the Club Financial Reporting Unit.

Then in time, unless it's already been done for past seasons ahead of appointment, the Club Financial Review Panel will scrutinise, and if required refer to adjudication or for a breach.

We won't get any kind of deduction this season, of that I'm certain.

Which just further highlights the wrecking of our finances in that era. Perhaps 2024 barring big player sales we will be back in a truly healthy place, this summer another big step forward.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[red panda]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

OK- got it now.

Do you really expect us to believe that you didn't already know the reason?

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I couldn't give a toss about MA or Ipswich or is it the case that until BCFC see success again anything to the contrary is purely down to MA and by extension- Ipswich?

A little bit of schadenfreude doesn't mean that everyone thinks that MA is responsible for everything that's gone wrong.

And has anyone really blamed Ipswich??  Rather than blaming Ipswich, many of us are very grateful that they took MA off our hands.

Edited January 2, 2023 by red panda
coherence

[chinapig]

Just now, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Ok- but the losses were there pre MA and were significant. One year under MA was a profit.

So , just to clarify and so I completely understand your points- when exactly can we move on from MA ( and LJ) being responsible for all our ongoing and future problems?

Is it the end of this current window ( particularly if we sell someone signed or developed when MA was here) or the end of this season or next or the one after??? At what point? 

It's not a trick question.

 

I can only recommend you look at our accounts again. Profitable we are not and have not been, in large part because the wage bill doubled during Ashton's tenure. Money raised from sales was frittered away on that and scatter gun recruitment when it should have strengthened our financial position. Bear in mind that this was the man who, in the club's own words on his appointment, had control over all day to day football activities.

As I suggested in my original reply, when we will have fixed our finances depends on further cost reductions (and/or revenue increases) and how much we raise from sales, if any.

What Nigel has said about renewing, or not, contracts may deliver further savings (and no doubt has as far as Wells' contract goes) but without knowing the club's internal plans it's hard to predict a timescale. Ultimately we may have to wait until the big losses drop out of the FFP calculations.

Not likely to be sorted in the current financial year though I suspect.

[Numero Uno]

31 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Ok- but the losses were there pre MA and were significant. One year under MA was a profit.

So , just to clarify and so I completely understand your points- when exactly can we move on from MA ( and LJ) being responsible for all our ongoing and future problems?

Is it the end of this current window ( particularly if we sell someone signed or developed when MA was here) or the end of this season or next or the one after??? At what point? 

It's not a trick question.

 

Yeah we turned a profit one year in a period when we sold Webster for £24m and Kelly for £13m, a £10m profit….you do the maths. Unfortunately the same bloke also sanctioned wages in excess of turnover so when Covid arrived and we didn’t have a string of £13-24m players on our books we were ducked ……..financial genius he ******* wasn’t and paying for it ever since. Bear in mind that the profit disappears from the three year rolling accounts next year so that’s another season of belt tightening guaranteed to avoid points deductions.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

Yeah we turned a profit one year in a period when we sold Webster for £24m and Kelly for £13m, a £10m profit….you do the maths. Unfortunately the same bloke also sanctioned wages in excess of turnover so when Covid arrived and we didn’t have a string of £13-24m players on our books we were ducked ……..financial genius he ******* wasn’t and paying for it ever since. Bear in mind that the profit disappears from the three year rolling accounts next year so that’s another season of belt tightening guaranteed to avoid points deductions.

Don't start a different conversation- this is about WHEN MA is no longer responsible for the mess we're in. It's a very simple question yet nobody seems to be able to answer it. 

(Browhill Reid Flint Bryan also sold at immense profit- you do the math).

[Davefevs]

Without quoting the right posts (because I hit the wrong button on my iPad ) @Marina's Rolls Royce, @chinapig, we can start to forget about Mark Ashton at the point we are back in amongst the mid-table of the Championship and have a squad of sufficient quality to rightfully be there.  

That could be during next season, through a successful foundation laying, and stage one of the recruitment plan.  I will still be bitter, but at least it’s our own destiny to move forward.

It could be longer, because we could go down.  And Ashton’s fingerprints will be on lots of it (not all of it).

That’s the wishy-washy answer.

I don’t think we will go down.

I think we will be in the Championship.

We will learn more as this window progresses.  I don’t believe we will be forced to sell Scott and Semenyo but that is not to say they won’t go either.  What we get in to strengthen us this window is all up in the air as a result.  We do need to strengthen, whether we can I don’t know.

One of my recent spreadsheets (the inheritance one) was to show that there are still a number of players who have not had a contract decision (well, at least not executed yet to completeness) made by Nige, they are Bentley, Kalas, Dasilva, Moore, Massengo, Williams and Martin.  They take up a significant percentage of the playing budget.  All bar Williams will be gone in the summer or Nige has decided he wants them to stay, so you could argue that’s the point.  But if we were sat here well inside FFP, I’d agree, but even we are on the line, so no room to “churn” the squad every window, like we did under MA whilst increasing the budget far beyond its limits.

It’s a subtlety.  Some managers wouldn’t get the time to see that “contract cycle” through, but few managers are left in the mess we were.  He’s made tough decisions to forego re-interacting senior players to avoid points deductions, hence why I think he’s earned more time.  Others disagree.

So, the answer is - I’ll let you know.

 

9 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Don't start a different conversation- this is about WHEN MA is no longer responsible for the mess we're in. It's a very simple question yet nobody seems to be able to answer it. 

(Browhill Reid Flint Bryan also sold at immense profit- you do the math).

Hold on, I can’t type that quick…answer above

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

20 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I can only recommend you look at our accounts again. Profitable we are not and have not been, in large part because the wage bill doubled during Ashton's tenure. Money raised from sales was frittered away on that and scatter gun recruitment when it should have strengthened our financial position. Bear in mind that this was the man who, in the club's own words on his appointment, had control over all day to day football activities.

As I suggested in my original reply, when we will have fixed our finances depends on further cost reductions (and/or revenue increases) and how much we raise from sales, if any.

What Nigel has said about renewing, or not, contracts may deliver further savings (and no doubt has as far as Wells' contract goes) but without knowing the club's internal plans it's hard to predict a timescale. Ultimately we may have to wait until the big losses drop out of the FFP calculations.

Not likely to be sorted in the current financial year though I suspect.

Ok- so when can we on OTIB move on from the MA/LJ era? The never ending blame game?

And , by the way and IMO, if we end up with  a new manager who is no better than Nige has been- it ain't gonna be Nige's fault that results are just as bad- it's because SL chooses another lemon.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, the answer is - I’ll let you know.

 

Thank you- an honest answer at least.

We can move on from the blame of MA/LJ when it feels right!

Football is so simple- if we start winning or better it's gonna be despite MA/LJ and if we get relegated or carry on as a bottom feeder it's because of them! 

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Ok- so when can we on OTIB move on from the MA/LJ era? The never ending blame game?

And , by the way and IMO, if we end up with  a new manager who is no better than Nige has been- it ain't gonna be Nige's fault that results are just as bad- it's because SL chooses another lemon.

You can move on whenever you wish. But until we can fix it the damage Ashton caused will continue to have a material impact. Once we get there I expect the cultural and structural changes made to deliver improvement, though Nigel's ultimate successor may be the beneficiary.

But yes, while Ashton remains accountable Steve is ultimately responsible. Though I don't expect him to admit to his mistakes!

[Davefevs]

Just to add in the financial years that MA had a majority input, e.g. I’m not counting 15/16 as he joined part way through, so budgets already committed, so from 16/17 up to 20/21, five seasons, he presided over operational losses of £140m.  We reduced that by £83m through transfer profit, but we left an ongoing wage bill commitment of £30m+ p.an and amortisation of £14m p.a for RG / NP to inherit when Holden went and he jumped shit.  They started to right that in the first summer, and last year’s accounts reflect the heavy lifting that took place.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

and he jumped shit.  

Blimey

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Thank you- an honest answer at least.

We can move on from the blame of MA/LJ when it feels right!

Football is so simple- if we start winning or better it's gonna be despite MA/LJ and if we get relegated or carry on as a bottom feeder it's because of them! 

That’s not what I’m saying, I’m saying you can’t say until certain evidence is seen.  I explained the contract cycle and typically this would require that we rebuild in Lg1. That’s why I can’t give you a black and white date.

If I said to you that we sell Scott and Semenyo for £20m but weren’t allowed to spend it because we’ve done a deal with the EFL to avoid points deduction, then that greys the black and white doesn’t it.  Likewise if we keep them, add a couple to make us stronger, then you could say we have started to come out the other side.

Unless of course you’ve seen the accounts, know the recruitment plans, the dynamics of what outs might drive an in, then we can only reflect after events.

Surely that makes sense?

4 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Blimey

Not a typo

[stephenkibby.]

2 hours ago, Lew-T said:

I’ve just had a look at the League One table and I couldn’t believe Plymouth! I know they were doing well but they’re absolutely bossing that league…

6 points clear of 3rd, FIFTEEN points clear of 4th. Crazy

Dose make me laugh when a few on here are saying replace Pearson with Schumacher.

Plymouth are a team and City on a par with us. Great catchment area and getting 15,000 crowds.

Nice ground good chance of promotion. after a few years in the wilderness are on the way up.

Pearson for me now is our best hope. If anyone thinks a change of manager would mean the Argyle guy coming in ,forget it.

[Lew-T]

2 hours ago, sticks 1969 said:

Would be good to see them come back up 

Yeah, I agree.

No doubt they’ll use their promotion momentum more effectively than we did under Cotterill.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not a typo

The 'jumped' presumably?

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

12 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Dose make me laugh when a few on here are saying replace Pearson with Schumacher.

Plymouth are a team and City on a par with us. Great catchment area and getting 15,000 crowds.

Nice ground good chance of promotion. after a few years in the wilderness are on the way up.

Pearson for me now is our best hope. If anyone thinks a change of manager would mean the Argyle guy coming in ,forget it.

I once went to Home Park years ago midweek in winter as I was working in Cornwall.

The home fans chanting at us BCFC fans: "You dirty Northern Bastards"- I loved them ever since!

[Wanderingred]

Plymouth can go do one. They hate us, and would be crowing and gloating relentlessly if they went above us, declaring themselves the “best in the west”. I hope they stay in the lower divisions where they belong.

[stephenkibby.]

11 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Plymouth can go do one. They hate us, and would be crowing and gloating relentlessly if they went above us, declaring themselves the “best in the west”. I hope they stay in the lower divisions where they belong.

Who cares if they hate us, would you rather Ipswich came up?

Always a big crowd and cracking atmosphere against Plymouth.

Try taking the Millwall outlook on other teams fans.!!!!

[Numero Uno]

20 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Don't start a different conversation- this is about WHEN MA is no longer responsible for the mess we're in. It's a very simple question yet nobody seems to be able to answer it. 

(Browhill Reid Flint Bryan also sold at immense profit- you do the math).

You’re missing my point. All these players sold at “immense profit” and Ashton still left us right in the shit. Why do you think that is? The maths is obvious, he was running a club spending way beyond its means. Basic. To answer your question I would suggest it will take another season and a half to get back in a sensible financial footing that negates Ashton’s time here and enables us to compete at the level in a manner we can afford. Pretty much when Nige’s contract runs out.

[Davefevs]

43 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

You’re missing my point. All these players sold at “immense profit” and Ashton still left us right in the shit. Why do you think that is? The maths is obvious, he was running a club spending way beyond its means. Basic. To answer your question I would suggest it will take another season and a half to get back in a sensible financial footing that negates Ashton’s time here and enables us to compete at the level in a manner we can afford. Pretty much when Nige’s contract runs out.

So there you have it MRR, Numero Uno suggests another 18 months.

[Kodjias Wrist]

17 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Plymouth can go do one. They hate us, and would be crowing and gloating relentlessly if they went above us, declaring themselves the “best in the west”. I hope they stay in the lower divisions where they belong.

Why would they hate us? 

[Super]

17 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Plymouth can go do one. They hate us, and would be crowing and gloating relentlessly if they went above us, declaring themselves the “best in the west”. I hope they stay in the lower divisions where they belong.

I don't mind them. Would welcome a championship game at Plymouth or Exeter.

[Lanterne Rouge]

58 minutes ago, Super said:

I don't mind them. Would welcome a championship game at Plymouth or Exeter.

Me too, Plymouth`s only 25 miles down the road for me. Mind you, if they were above us my life would be unbearable!

[Super]

Lampard surely under pressure now. 0-4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BanburyRed]

1 minute ago, Super said:

Lampard surely under pressure now. 0-4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just about to post the same, toast losing 0-4 at home..?

[CodeRed]

53 minutes ago, Super said:

Lampard surely under pressure now. 0-4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unsurprising.....not even a proper manager.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

On 02/01/2023 at 21:25, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Thank you- an honest answer at least.

We can move on from the blame of MA/LJ when it feels right!

Football is so simple- if we start winning or better it's gonna be despite MA/LJ and if we get relegated or carry on as a bottom feeder it's because of them! 

And for some, if we start winning it will be despite NP and if we’re losing/relegated, it will be because of him.