Will injuries force our hand in this Transfer Window?

[NcnsBcfc]

In the FBC Podcast yesterday I mentioned that prior to last weekend, we may well have been waiting for a big sale to formulate our transfer strategy for the window.

I know that NP wanted to do his business early, and was considering loans at last (after 2 years), but any large sale would hopefully have given him some additional funds to get in either permanently or on loan experienced heads (who cost considerably more of course) needed for the relegation battle ahead rather than potential PL under 21s loans.

That position may have changed of course after the Swansea game. Of course we don't know how bad the injuries to Weimann and Conway are. But at the final whistle, from my seat in the Lansdown you could also see Naismith hobbling badly onto the pitch holding his right calf (whether this influenced his substitution is a possibility).

You then look at the squad as a whole, with potentially Martin, Massengo & Klose obviously persona non grata; Kalas still not match ready; we are into the under 21s. There is no further squad depth from my perspective. The subs bench for the weekend will already be stocked full of the Under 21s.

With the two key home games coming up, we need to make some decisions quickly. Any sale of Scott/Semenyeo could be long and protracted, and it's unlikely that any move would not be until the end of the window. That's not going to help us in the next 3 weeks of course, where without reinforcements we could well be falling into the bottom three.

From my perspective we need to be proactive, rather than reactive now based on sales. Yes it's taking a chance (Birmingham anyone) that you are in fact going to make that big sell. But we can't afford to just be standing by, with a mounting injury list, and numerous players not even being considered for whatever reason.

Interesting few weeks ahead for sure.

 

[Clutton Caveman]

2 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

In the FBC Podcast yesterday I mentioned that prior to last weekend, we may well have been waiting for a big sale to formulate our transfer strategy for the window.

I know that NP wanted to do his business early, and was considering loans at last (after 2 years), but any large sale would hopefully have given him some additional funds to get in either permanently or on loan experienced heads (who cost considerably more of course) needed for the relegation battle ahead rather than potential PL under 21s loans.

That position may have changed of course after the Swansea game. Of course we don't know how bad the injuries to Weimann and Conway are. But at the final whistle, from my seat in the Lansdown you could also see Naismith hobbling badly onto the pitch holding his right calf (whether this influenced his substitution is a possibility).

You then look at the squad as a whole, with potentially Martin, Massengo & Klose obviously persona non grata; Kalas still not match ready; we are into the under 21s. There is no further squad depth from my perspective. The subs bench for the weekend will already be stocked full of the Under 21s.

With the two key home games coming up, we need to make some decisions quickly. Any sale of Scott/Semenyeo could be long and protracted, and it's unlikely that any move would not be until the end of the window. That's not going to help us in the next 3 weeks of course, where without reinforcements we could well be falling into the bottom three.

From my perspective we need to be proactive, rather than reactive now based on sales. Yes it's taking a chance (Birmingham anyone) that you are in fact going to make that big sell. But we can't afford to just be standing by, with a mounting injury list, and numerous players not even being considered for whatever reason.

Interesting few weeks ahead for sure.

 

I think it comes down to this. SL wants to sell. If we go down the potential value reduction is far greater than the cost of a couple of new faces. So yes I think his hand will be forced. Lets hope it is and we don't get anymore of NP's old mates looking for a pre pension position.

[GrahamC]

I’m not sure.

At present we are choosing to exclude Klose, Massengo & Martin, but all 3 are fit & in my opinion at least have their value if included in the match day squad. Especially the latter if Conway was absent for a while.

It is an odd time, because almost certainly things are happening behind the scenes & despite the denials I would think that we are aware of some interest in Semenyo & Scott. Should any of the 3 I named (or Dasilva or Bentley) leave then the situation changes.

I’d certainly be bringing any of those 3 back into the fold rather than promoting another youngster if we do have injuries & the other factor is should we win at Swansea (unlikely, but not impossible) then we only play 2 league games before the transfer window closes anyway.

Edited January 9, 2023 by GrahamC

[NcnsBcfc]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I’m not sure.

At present we are choosing to exclude Klose, Massengo & Martin, but all 3 are fit & in my opinion at least have their value if included in the match day squad. Especially the latter if Conway was absent for a while.

It is an odd time, because almost certainly things are happening behind the scenes & despite the denials I would think that we are aware of some interest in Semenyo & Scott. Should any of the 3 I named (or Dasilva or Bentley) leave then the situation changes.

I’d certainly be bringing any of those 3 back into the fold rather than promoting another youngster if we do have injuries & the other factor is should be win at Swansea (unlikely, but not impossible) then we only play 2 league games before the transfer window closes anyway.

Difficult to say with NP though isn't it @GrahamC? 

He's so belligerent, particularly over loans, but players that have fallen out of favour (Dasilva, Pring begin case in points) have worked their way back into the team.

The fact that those guys aren't even in the 18, over the last month when we've been crying out for a win is testament to how far out in the cold they must be though?

 

[LondonBristolian]

13 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I’m not sure.

At present we are choosing to exclude Klose, Massengo & Martin, but all 3 are fit & in my opinion at least have their value if included in the match day squad. Especially the latter if Conway was absent for a while.

It is an odd time, because almost certainly things are happening behind the scenes & despite the denials I would think that we are aware of some interest in Semenyo & Scott. Should any of the 3 I named (or Dasilva or Bentley) leave then the situation changes.

I’d certainly be bringing any of those 3 back into the fold rather than promoting another youngster if we do have injuries & the other factor is should be win at Swansea (unlikely, but not impossible) then we only play 2 league games before the transfer window closes anyway.

I think the other factor is Klose is a player Pearson signed and Martin (& Klose, come to that) are both players that the club offered extensions to in the summer, presumably with Pearson's blessing. If we're operating under financial constraints, the board and CEO could easily tell Pearson that - until we achieve a sale - he's got to use the players he advocated for keeping, rather than go back into the market.

Unless two or more of Naismith, Weimann or Conway have injuries that will rule them out for an extended period, I think it's quite hard to argue injuries are hampering us more than any other club. The injury to Wilson is unfortunate, the Kalas situation is frustrating and the Benarous one must be gutting for the lad but injuries can happen to any club and have to be factored in across the season.

I don't have any insight into the club's finances beyond what we read and hear but I just don't see that enough has changed since the beginning of the season for our position on transfers and budgets to change as a result of injuries or players being out of favour. The one that could change things is if Klose or Martin are completely out the cold to an extent that they would be prepared to accept an early termination to seek football elsewhere but, even then, they'd need to agree a severance that saves us on their wages and, unless they had an offer in the bag, there is absolutely no reason why they should be expected to do us a favour, just because Pearson does not want to pick them. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by LondonBristolian

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Difficult to say with NP though isn't it @GrahamC? 

He's so belligerent, particularly over loans, but players that have fallen out of favour (Dasilva, Pring begin case in points) have worked their way back into the team.

The fact that those guys aren't even in the 18, over the last month when we've been crying out for a win is testament to how far out in the cold they must be though?

 

We’ll see.

As an example he’s picking Bell in his 18 over Martin at the moment because presumably he seems him as more a part of his longer term plans & if he can, it seems he’d prefer Martin to move on this month.

However should Conway and/or Weimann be unavailable this Saturday he will almost certainly go with Semenyo & Wells up top (Hobson’s choice) but I would hardly be amazed to see Martin return to the bench in those specific circumstances.

Massengo is currently behind Williams who is on the bench with King seen as another option as well, plus we know he’s going to run his contract down, it’s not what I’d do with HNM myself but I can see the logic.

As for loans he’s admitted if he could have got Khadra he’d have brought him here in the summer, so think it is more to do with availability than dogma.

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think the other factor is Klose is a player Pearson signed and Martin (& Klose, come to that) are both players that the club offered extensions to in the summer, presumably with Pearson's blessing. If we're operating under financial constraints, the board and CEO could easily tell Pearson that - until we achieve a sale - he's got to use the players he advocated for keeping, rather than go back into the market.

Unless two or more of Naismith, Weimann or Conway have injuries that will rule them out for an extended period, I think it's quite hard to argue injuries are hampering us more than any other club. The injury to Wilson is unfortunate, the Kalas situation is frustrating and the Benarous one must be gutting for the lad but injuries can happen to any club and have to be factored in across the season.

I don't have any insight into the club's finances beyond what we read and hear but I just don't see that enough has changed since the beginning of the season for our position on transfers and budgets to change as a result of injuries or players being out of favour. The one that could change things is if Klose or Martin are completely out the cold to an extent that they would be prepared to accept an early termination to seek football elsewhere but, even then, they'd need to agree a severance that saves us on their wages and, unless they had an offer in the bag, there is absolutely no reason why they should be expected to do us a favour, just because Pearson does not want to pick them. 

Totally fair, I also think that our injury situation is pretty irrelevant, Kalas has been missing for 9 months now so we should be used to it by now, Wilson hasn’t started a single Championship game in his career yet, Benarous just 7.

Re Martin I reckon the contract was triggered by appearances but as it was Pearson who selected him for those he cannot complain.

Klose’s situation seems to have altered since he became a Dad (& no one on here was suggesting anything other than an extension as I recall) but again you manage the resource you have & I thought he was excellent v Preston but do reckon his legs have gone & we are trying to negotiate a settlement.

[chinapig]

20 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Difficult to say with NP though isn't it @GrahamC? 

He's so belligerent, particularly over loans, but players that have fallen out of favour (Dasilva, Pring begin case in points) have worked their way back into the team.

The fact that those guys aren't even in the 18, over the last month when we've been crying out for a win is testament to how far out in the cold they must be though?

 

He wasn't remotely belligerent about loans. He made the perfectly reasonable point that you need to have the right culture before bringing them in. Once he was satisfied with the culture he said he was ok with loans.

Of course loans aren't cheap so it's open to question whether we can afford them anyway unless players leave.

[Mr Popodopolous]

@NcnsBcfc

I still question as to whether and injuries are irrelevant to this, whether we are able to add anyone before wages leave the books.

If we are working to some kind of arrangement with the League I don't see why we would be permitted to deviate from that- the League gained certain within the last 6-12 months. There is a relevant regulation pertaining to restrictions on future expenditure to prevent an upcoming breach.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

47 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

I think it comes down to this. SL wants to sell. If we go down the potential value reduction is far greater than the cost of a couple of new faces. So yes I think his hand will be forced. Lets hope it is and we don't get anymore of NP's old mates looking for a pre pension position.

Not sure that's true SL being willing to sell isn't the same as actively looking to sell.  Which are very different positions. 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Totally fair, I also think that our injury situation is pretty irrelevant, Kalas has been missing for 9 months now so we should be used to it by now, Wilson hasn’t started a single Championship game in his career yet, Benarous just 7.

Re Martin I reckon the contract was triggered by appearances but as it was Pearson who selected him for those he cannot complain.

Klose’s situation seems to have altered since he became a Dad (& no one on here was suggesting anything other than an extension as I recall) but again you manage the resource you have & I thought he was excellent v Preston but do reckon his legs have gone & we are trying to negotiate a settlement.

Yes, was triggered by Martin himself because he reached the prescribed number of appearances.

Yep, he picked him, absolutely.

Klose signed a 1+1 deal in the summer.  I suspect the last thing Nige wants this season is him triggering another year by making enough appearances.

Yes, he re-signed him, but it does appear his legs have gone.  He could still play if pushed, he can lead, he can win balls in the air, but it probably is getting harder and harder for him.

 

Neil - I think we are in a situation where we are gonna be reactive I’m afraid.  I don’t think touting Alex or Antoine is the right thing to do in this window.

We might just end up on Feb 1st with exactly the same personnel (minus Ryley) that we entered the window with.

It does appear than Wilson might be back this month from what Nige said, and Kalas too.

Is it a risk?  Yep, sure is…but I don’t think we can control it.

[Hazelboy]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, was triggered by Martin himself because he reached the prescribed number of appearances.

Yep, he picked him, absolutely.

Klose signed a 1+1 deal in the summer.  I suspect the last thing Nige wants this season is him triggering another year by making enough appearances.

Yes, he re-signed him, but it does appear his legs have gone.  He could still play if pushed, he can lead, he can win balls in the air, but it probably is getting harder and harder for him.

 

Neil - I think we are in a situation where we are gonna be reactive I’m afraid.  I don’t think touting Alex or Antoine is the right thing to do in this window.

We might just end up on Feb 1st with exactly the same personnel (minus Ryley) that we entered the window with.

It does appear than Wilson might be back this month from what Nige said, and Kalas too.

Is it a risk?  Yep, sure is…but I don’t think we can control it.

This is what I’ve been told to expect by somebody close-ish to the club.

Not expecting anybody to reach the asking price for Semenyo or especially Scott this window. And the players we want to shift aren’t in any rush to leave. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

I don't believe that we are facing such an injury crisis that players should be bought or loaned in as a stop gap.

The cupboard is pretty bare so NP needs to look at purely bringing the new faces to solve his long standing problems not as a result of AW or TC whose ham strings may or may not be a particular problem. He/the club has to stick with whatever plan they have. And there is no room to place any player off or under the bus without an outstanding reason.

Massengo being a player in question- he clearly wants a nice pay day as a free agent- maybe back in his home country and but will likely  give 100% if reselected even if it's only for himself.

[Davefevs]

I believe Massengo has recently (as in the weekend) signed up to a new agency.

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I believe Massengo has recently (as in the weekend) signed up to a new agency.

Do you think there is anything in massengo's contract that if he plays 100 league games we have to pay an additional fee to Monaco? He's been on 99 a long time!

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Do you think there is anything in massengo's contract that if he plays 100 league games we have to pay an additional fee to Monaco? He's been on 99 a long time!

Ooooh, maybe!

[GrahamC]

32 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Do you think there is anything in massengo's contract that if he plays 100 league games we have to pay an additional fee to Monaco? He's been on 99 a long time!

Apparently he was really poor in his very last game at Birmingham but that would hardly be unique this season.

As that was 3 months ago now, all the way back on October 8th there could possibly be something in this, though his sole appearance on the bench since then (the Watford 0-0 immediately prior to the WC break) would suggest not, because there would be little point putting him on the bench in front of say Kadji, if you never intended to use him no matter what.

[Mr Popodopolous]

If there was such a clause, and it was triggered, god I sound a bit doom and gloom but needless to say it would eat into our remaining budget to strengthen this month whatever that is.

[1960maaan]

Clause or not, if he has said he will not sign a new contract whatever, I see little benefit in him playing. 
I like him, but you may as well give Kadji minutes unless we are desperate. We have King, Williams, James, Scott even Naismith before you get to the kids or those that could "fill in". I think Pearson might have one eye on next year and HNM isn't a part of that.

[Sir Geoff]

We have plenty of options already in house as Davefevs mentions above. Wilson and Kalas close to a return Sykes can play inside, just hasn't been used there yet. Scott can play behind the front 2. If Semenyo goes it will be at the end of the window when someone panic buys which give TC a couple of weeks to recover. If he doesn't recover til mid Feb then Bell or Martin can play alongside Wells.

No need to panic.imo

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

We have plenty of options already in house as Davefevs mentions above. Wilson and Kalas close to a return Sykes can play inside, just hasn't been used there yet. Scott can play behind the front 2. If Semenyo goes it will be at the end of the window when someone panic buys which give TC a couple of weeks to recover. If he doesn't recover til mid Feb then Bell or Martin can play alongside Wells.

No need to panic.imo

Naismith can also play CM although may not be his 1st position.

Bit worried about possible injuries though, the squad is quite thin in places and inexperienced in others.

[Sir Geoff]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Naismith can also play CM although may not be his 1st position.

Bit worried about possible injuries though, the squad is quite thin in places and inexperienced in others.

Yes didn't mention him as someone earlier said he was limping quite badly and holding his thigh after the final whistle. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Sir Geoff said:

Yes didn't mention him as someone earlier said he was limping quite badly and holding his thigh after the final whistle. 

Thanks. Damn. Thinking of backline too...sure am missing some but Vyner and Atkinson of course- if Kalas and Naismith have injuries well King back there, Pring back inside with DaSilva LWB? Revert to back 4 of Tanner-Vyner-Atkinson-Pring?

[frenchred]

26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Naismith can also play CM although may not be his 1st position.

Bit worried about possible injuries though, the squad is quite thin in places and inexperienced in others.

No he can't, he's a central defender, if he can't get in the side in his proper position he shouldn't be playing

33 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Clause or not, if he has said he will not sign a new contract whatever, I see little benefit in him playing. 
I like him, but you may as well give Kadji minutes unless we are desperate. We have King, Williams, James, Scott even Naismith before you get to the kids or those that could "fill in". I think Pearson might have one eye on next year and HNM isn't a part of that.

You seen our squad and options?............... We are desperate!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, frenchred said:

No he can't, he's a central defender, if he can't get in the side in his proper position he shouldn't be playing

Always thought he played it for Wigan but just checked and seemed he did not. Played a few positions but not CM.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

6 hours ago, frenchred said:

Do you think there is anything in massengo's contract that if he plays 100 league games we have to pay an additional fee to Monaco? He's been on 99 a long time!

Has he really played 99 games?? Where is this intel available? If true , I wouldn't be surprised if this is a trigger.

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Has he really played 99 games?? Where is this intel available? If true , I wouldn't be surprised if this is a trigger.

 

league games - 73 starts / 26 sub

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/han-noah-massengo/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/536508/verein/698
 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

league games - 73 starts / 26 sub

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/han-noah-massengo/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/536508/verein/698
 

Thanks for the info.

Is being a sub equal to starting/full appearance? I guess so and if so then I think @frenchredhas come up with the reason that Massengo is highly unlikely to ever kick a ball in anger for BCFC again. It also , only if FACT and absolutely the case , has made it a bit more challenging for NP. Massengo wasn't exactly tearing up any trees but he was always a useful club in the bag as GJ would say.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Thanks for the info.

Is being a sub equal to starting/full appearance? I guess so and if so then I think @frenchredhas come up with the reason that Massengo is highly unlikely to ever kick a ball in anger for BCFC again. It also , only if FACT and absolutely the case , has made it a bit more challenging for NP. Massengo wasn't exactly tearing up any trees but he was always a useful club in the bag as GJ would say.

Reading up on some PFCC (Professional Football Compensation Committee) cases, those cases have used a first team appearance rather than League appearance condition in the main, but it’s not 100% the case, nor would I assume Monaco / City agreed the competition type either.

[Simon bristol]

I hadnt figured That 99 appearances deal for massengo either,, i wonder if theres any progress with his getting transferred out? Such a shame,, he hasnt kicked on over the years, when you see what scott has come in and done, theres no comparison.