‘A Block Ultras’

[Super]

Ultras 

[Open End Numb Legs]

10 hours ago, Rossi the Robin said:

I just got followed on Instagram by this account

Very thoughtful of them to have the face covering, there is still some COVID and flu going around.

[lenred]

Double post

Edited January 11, 2023 by lenred

[lenred]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

When someone buys a ticket or season ticket they legally buy that ticket to sit in a specific seat - or in the case of the unreserved area a seat in that specific area. Sitting somewhere else breaks those terms and conditions. Being cold about this it has nothing to do with fostering a good atmosphere.

This condition is in clause 2.2 of the terms and conditions - "A Season Card permits you to occupy at the Match the seat indicated on the Season Card unless in a designated unreserved area or if the seat has been transferred to another area." For single match tickets clause 11.5 that says the same thing.

Clause 1.2 of the terms and conditions then says "The Club reserves the right to withdrawal [sic] any Season Card if any of the Terms and Conditions of Entry are broken by any Season Card holder."

So, what that means is that if you have an ST in one place and you go and sit in another seat the club can, technically, take your ST away.

Now, the terms and conditions do allow an ST holder to move seat for free, for up to 3 games a season. They also allow for a permanent seat move. But doing either of these things requires written consent of the club and payment - for a single seat move the difference of the single match ticket and the pro rata price of the ST - in the case of an adult in the unreserved section moving to E34 this would be a payment of £14. For a permanent move you have to pay the difference between your ST and an ST in the new seat - adjusted pro rata.

Are the people moving seat doing it in accordance with their ST terms and conditions? If not they are at risk of losing their ST. 

Look, I know that people move seats all the time - I have done it myself many times - and I know that generally a blind eye is turned to it and it causes no issues. However where a large group do it I suspect that the usual blind eye will suddenly become not so blind, and some fans may unwittingly find themselves in hot water.

I am just raising this point so people might be aware of it.

I was presuming anyone moving / attending would have the correct ticket and my answer was more focused on your ‘club sanctioning’ items. I should’ve made that clear, apologies.    

Edited January 11, 2023 by lenred

[Dave L]

12 minutes ago, lenred said:

Not being argumentative but why do fans need to ask the club where they sit? The club have done absolutely nothing to foster a good atmosphere so let the fans do it organically and as long as they aren’t hurting anyone there is no problem? 

Actually, I can see loads of potential problems. 

What about the people who already sit there and who enjoy their current match day experience?

How would any of us feel if another fan 'organically' came and occupied the seat we'd sat in for years, and paid less for it too?

'Atmosphere' can mean a number of things, including an increase in the likelihood of anti social behaviour, which in itself leads to increased stewarding and policing costs - at a time when the club's financial woes are well-documented. 

 

I'm not saying things don't need to improve, but if there's to be a shift to that part of the ground by more vocal supporters then I would suggest it can't take place until there has been full consultation with the club. We have an excellent SLO and he should be the starting point for any discussions. 

[Bristol Rob]

So some fans demanded safe standing and got it, and now they have it they want to move to a different stand and disrupt a load of season ticket holders who've probably enjoyed their seat for years.

Any idea if those proposing a move to Block A will be sat during the game or is it their intention to 'do what they want' and engage in a 'no pyro, no party' type arrangement?

The plus side to this of course, is that if lots of people decided to move to Block A either this season or next, they'd end up paying a lot more which would be good for the club. 

[Super]

This and the demonstration on the same day. Just a coincidence?

[ExiledAjax]

19 minutes ago, lenred said:

I was presuming anyone moving / attending would have the correct ticket and my answer was more focused on your ‘club sanctioning’ items. I should’ve made that clear, apologies.    

Ok, fair enough, sorry I took your question the wrong way.

I should have expanded upon "club sanctioned". I meant it in two ways.

Firstly in relation to doing the initial move in accordance with terms and conditions - I hope that this is being done as it will mean that the move gets taken more seriously by the club. Do it 'legally' and you take away the ability of the club to brand it as a 'protest'. If it's your 4th seat move this season then pay your £14 and get it 'sanctioned'. Then prove to the club that the atmosphere is better and you can be trusted. That's for the short term move.

The second point is that if this is intended to be a long-term permanent move of "the singing section" from the corners to block E34 (and E33 maybe if capacity requires it?) then you are at some point going to need official club sanction, just as fans got in 2017 when the singing section was established. Three main reasons I can think of for needing this if what is intended is a wholesale relocation of the 'singing section':

• you're going to need the club to relax the no-standing rules in the new section as they have done for the current corner;
• if you want rail seating in the new area then that'll be the club that installs that; and
• the club will need to speak to any current ST holders in Dolman E34 and E33 to see if they want to move, or to facilitate that move.

I support this move if it improves atmosphere. But do it properly and in accordance with the terms and conditions and with the club's assistance and it is far more likely to stick.

Edited January 11, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Bristol Rob]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ok, fair enough, sorry I took your question the wrong way.

I should have expanded upon "club sanctioned". I meant it in two ways.

Firstly in relation to doing the initial move in accordance with terms and conditions - I hope that this is being done as it will mean that the move gets taken more seriously by the club. Do it 'legally' and you take away the ability of the club to brand it as a 'protest'. Pay your £14 and get it 'sanctioned'. then prove to the club that the atmosphere is better and you can be trusted. That's for the short term move.

The second point is that if this is intended to be a long-term permanent move of "the singing section" from the corners to block E34 (and E33 maybe if capacity requires it?) then you are at some point going to need official club sanction, just as fans got in 2017 when the singing section was established. Three main reasons I can think of for needing this if what is intended is a wholesale relocation of the 'singing section':

• you're going to need the club to relax the no-standing rules in the new section as they have done for the current corner;
• if you want rail seating in the new area then that'll be the club that installs that; and
• the club will need to speak to any current ST holders in Dolman E34 and E33 to see if they want to move, or to facilitate that move.

I support this move if it improves atmosphere. But do it properly and in accordance with the terms and conditions and with the club's assistance and it is far more likely to stick.

Is it the club that relax the no-standing rule, or one of those health and safety groups that insist on some lights being left on during the game?

As for the £14 - surely it will need to be an extra £15.10 if capacity gets reduced by 10% to accommodate those who adopt a 'we'll go where we want' approach!

[Barrs Court Red]

7 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

So some fans demanded safe standing and got it, and now they have it they want to move to a different stand and disrupt a load of season ticket holders who've probably enjoyed their seat for years.

 

The same safe standing that was supposed to include the entire lower Dolman and upper South Stand?  While people wanted it, it was promised as part of the build, and was a key promise to rugby fans when the move to Ashton Gate was put forward. 

[Super]

14 minutes ago, Dave L said:

Actually, I can see loads of potential problems. 

What about the people who already sit there and who enjoy their current match day experience?

How would any of us feel if another fan 'organically' came and occupied the seat we'd sat in for years, and paid less for it too?

'Atmosphere' can mean a number of things, including an increase in the likelihood of anti social behaviour, which in itself leads to increased stewarding and policing costs - at a time when the club's financial woes are well-documented. 

 

I'm not saying things don't need to improve, but if there's to be a shift to that part of the ground by more vocal supporters then I would suggest it can't take place until there has been full consultation with the club. We have an excellent SLO and he should be the starting point for any discussions. 

Surely the people already there can't choose who else are in there? As long as they are sat down and don't block view of others what harm are they doing?

[Bristol Rob]

1 minute ago, Barrs Court Red said:

The same safe standing that was supposed to include the entire lower Dolman and upper South Stand?  While people wanted it, it was promised as part of the build, and was a key promise to rugby fans when the move to Ashton Gate was put forward. 

Have to be honest, I don't remembed that being promised, I thought it was just something they'd look at and if they could, they would. But if that's what they said then fair enough. Having the noise pitch-side would likely be quite inspiring to the players who feed off the atmosphere. 

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Bristol Rob said:

Is it the club that relax the no-standing rule, or one of those health and safety groups that insist on some lights being left on during the game?

Sure, whichever body has the final say - it may well technically be the SAG as you say.

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

As for the £14 - surely it will need to be an extra £15.10 if capacity gets reduced by 10% to accommodate those who adopt a 'we'll go where we want' approach!

You know, I've looked at the Ts&Cs again and actually, assuming this is one of the first three times that an ST holder has moved seats it is free of charge. It also actually does not specifically say that you have to ask permission to do any of those first three seat moves. 

Perhaps my long posts to @lenred are slightly jumping the gun. It's likely that just moving seat for the Birmingham game is already within the rules, assuming an ST holder hasn't moved 3 times already. 

[Wealwayseatcheese]

E34 is the block where the club sells cheap tickets to encourage day trippers to become new fans. Birmingham will be lively on Saturday so now this is being put out there expect the club to be all over it on the day. Also there will be a number of regular SC holders back in their seats on Saturday in there so taking over it might not go down to well.

[Barrs Court Red]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Have to be honest, I don't remembed that being promised, I thought it was just something they'd look at and if they could, they would. But if that's what they said then fair enough. Having the noise pitch-side would likely be quite inspiring to the players who feed off the atmosphere. 

Yeah it was a very clear promise.  
 

It’s really pissed me off too, as I’d love to be able to stand so that people getting up every 5 mins for a beer could just move behind me.

[Phileas Fogg]

It’s always been an uphill battle with the club re: atmosphere. It’s clearly a bit of an inconvenience for the board rather than something they encourage.

Comments from the Lansdowns, Gould and in previous years the likes of Sextone show this.

Cotterill, Johnson and Pearson have all made comments around the atmosphere. I remember one or both of Cotterill/Johnson lamenting how we give away supporters a whole end behind the goal. 

It’s difficult to prove, but I’m sure we surrender a few points a season because of the atmosphere situation. Under GJ in 07/08, (when I remember the atmosphere being consistently good), AG was a difficult place to come. It’s not been anything like that since the rebuild.

It’s refreshing that fans want to do something about it and are being proactive. I hope the club don’t make it tricky.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Phileas Fogg

[Rossi the Robin]

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Rossi the Robin said:

"ticket or not". FFS. Just gives the club the opportunity to shut it down.

Do it properly, understand your rights, and you will be more successful in the long run.

[Super]

1 minute ago, Rossi the Robin said:

Ticket or not?

[Red Army 75]

Can see Saturday becoming a real mess. Especially if we lose. 

[lenred]

Just now, Red Army 75 said:

Can see Saturday becoming a real mess. Especially if we lose. 

Maybe but not sure why some people changing seats will make it any worse or better.   

[Selred]

5 minutes ago, Super said:

Ticket or not?

They expecting the machines not to work again?

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

"ticket or not". FFS. Just gives the club the opportunity to shut it down.

Do it properly, understand your rights, and you will be more successful in the long run.

It’s clearly being orchestrated by younger fans. The enthusiasm is great but as you say, naive wording like this is just going to put people’s noses out of joint and also make it easier for the club to put a stop to it.

[Wealwayseatcheese]

7 minutes ago, Super said:

Surely the people already there can't choose who else are in there? As long as they are sat down and don't block view of others what harm are they doing?

I don’t think the aim of the move is to sit down and not block the view of others, it’s going to be to replicate what happened against Swansea, stand and create an atmosphere whilst stood up, but on Saturday there will be SC holders sat in their seats who may well be totally against the idea. I think it’s a great idea but it will cause problems if not done properly via the club . 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, Selred said:

They expecting the machines not to work again?

Handwritten tickets will be distributed as per Sunday

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

It’s clearly being orchestrated by younger fans. The enthusiasm is great but as you say, naive wording like this is just going to put people’s noses out of joint and also make it easier for the club to put a stop to it.

The enthusiasm and fearlessness of youth is great, and sometimes it is needed. However, they might benefit from the counsel of older fans as well. A blend of youth and experience. 

[Red Army 75]

Just now, lenred said:

Maybe but not sure why some people changing seats will make it any worse or better.   

I think people will try to get in there without tickets. Upsetting the regulars by sitting in their seats. Plus the little march we have going on. Plus a sold out Birmingham end. Plus the coked up mob thinking they are hard as ****. Plus we are doing really shit especially at home. Besides that you could be right  

[Super]

1 minute ago, Wealwayseatcheese said:

I don’t think the aim of the move is to sit down and not block the view of others, it’s going to be to replicate what happened against Swansea, stand and create an atmosphere whilst stood up, but on Saturday there will be SC holders sat in their seats who may well be totally against the idea. I think it’s a great idea but it will cause problems if not done properly via the club . 

You simply can't stand in a seated area and block the views of people who have bought tickets already and want to sit.

[Bristol Rob]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

Handwritten tickets will be distributed as per Sunday

Rather than 'no pyro no party', they could do 'No Tippex, no entry'. 

[big dosser]

was always in the eastend or a block in the 80s 90s great entertainment and atmosphere.any games i go to now always sit at the top of a block and if the young ultras can get a rocking atmosphere in a block then crack on lads.