Numero Uno Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, REDOXO said: By and large this is how I see it. The kid did not develop beyond the neat little drag backs and getting between the opposing player and the ball. Four years and we have what we had on day one. As much as I would like the kid to go on win the World Cup and make us 40% of gazillions it’s not going to happen here. All of this nonsense about contracts is the kid and his advisors pretty much thinking the same thing. I had to laugh about the thought that Anderslecht have an interest. If it’s only one club (and I have my doubts) it would seem most likely he’s here until June. If that’s the case so be it. The other issue with Massengo which is why he probably gets judged on higher standards as @Davefevs mentions is that we now have Scott. Another lad who I would like to see a bit more from in terms of direct assists and goals BUT you can literally see the quality he has, the improvement he is making, the attitude that top players need and what he brings to the party. That little outside of the foot ball to Pring last week, perfectly weighted and two seconds later it's in the back of the net............you just know, watching Scott, that he is nowhere near his ceiling. Does anybody really know what HNM's ceiling is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: Ha! I thought that was Fammy! No, Famaral had the hugeous contract offer in the history of BCFC on the table and didn’t sign it but at least we got our value on the pitch. 17 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: Does anybody really know what HNM's ceiling is? Plasterboard painted Magnolia. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 57 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said: Probably the fact that Diaz contributes regularly with goal involvements and is one of the more desired forwards in the division. Provides consistent contribution on a match day. The same can’t be said of Massengo - has often flattered to deceive (when selected).. I'm not comparing them as players besides then both being young first team players. What I'm saying is that at a football club you have to have a consistent approach to what the club deem inappropriate conduct. So if the club has a principle that if a player refuses to sign a new contract (not a crime, btw), and tells the club they intend to leave when the contract ends, then they will be banished from first team football, then that principle should apply whether it's your best player or worst player. For me it makes no sense paying £8k per week to a player who is fit and has obvious quality only to exclude them from first team football. So for me there has to be more to this. NP stated Massengo brought the situation upon himself, so I have to assume/hope that Massengo has done more than just say he's leaving eventually. Davefevs used Vyner as a comparison. Now for all we and the club knows, Vyner might also be determined to leave. His agent might be touting his name far and wide. But he hasn't told the club he intends to leave. Players are always running contracts down and leaving clubs. There needs to be a bigger behavioural issue I reckon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 I'm not sure what is different in the Semenyo and Massengo situations. Both are refusing to sign a new contract and both want to leave the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Numero Uno said: It's utterly bizarre that some people appear to be getting genuinely angry that a player is not being picked when not one of us knows the contract situation and what has been said and done behind the scenes. How can something you know nothing about get you that emotional? He's either picked or he isn't....................you can't have the answers to everything as there are items of information that will disadvantage the club if it is put in the public domain. Same as any business. Whilst I think we are in a position of not needing to pick him because we have other options and his performances this season haven't merited it if Nige selects him today then so be it, nothing to lose your shit over. I hope you’re not including me in those ‘some people’! Because, for the reasons we’ve agreed on above, I’m not angry that he’s not being picked. But I’m angry (probably not the right word) when people make stuff up and then state it as fact - whether that’s about his contract offers or about him saying he doesn’t want to play for us. And also about how some people (not you!) seem to take it as a personal affront that he won’t sign a new contract when we want him to and believes that he can get a better opportunities elsewhere. I’m slightly concerned (from the point of view of our league position of nothing else) when he doesn’t even make the bench on a day when there are no other midfielders in sight - but recognise that there might be other stuff going on behind the scenes. I just hope it’s not the club taking the same affronted view! I like the guy. For all the issues, he’s given me two or three of the most memorable individual performances and a little bit of pleasure in what’s been a pretty miserable last three years watching City. Wasn’t there a small midfielder once before who divided opinion in much the same way….who knows, HNM returns to manage us in the future?! Edited January 21, 2023 by italian dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 hours ago, GrahamC said: James is really very good. Not as convinced as you about Rich but it is still relatively early days. “Evolving” 1 hour ago, frenchred said: Got the details of who he turned down? Or just more unfounded bullshit? We don’t know whether he has “turned down”, but Nige said yesterday “there was talk about Anderlecht” (19:25 into presser). Which was Graham and I heard from different sources a week / 10 days ago. So I’m guessing not “unfounded bullshit”. Both of us also heard there was another team interested too. I heard he “wasn’t sure” about Anderlecht. 50 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: Massengo is a subject we will never agree on..........is he a very good technical footballer? Yes, of course, but he doesn't work at OUR club and the counter attacking style we play. Value for money wise he is yet another example of an extremely poor buy. Just another one of far too many crap investments dropping off the conveyor belt and why we find ourselves where we are. His output, end product, call it what you like, for me, is utterly insufficient for the money we have spent on transfer fee, wages, and the likely significant loss we will make on the kid. How can a midfield player of his type go 100 games without scoring a single goal? These things happen though, it's not down to lack of ability, bad attitude or for the want of trying and I'm sure the boy will do a lot better elsewhere but as far as I'm concerned it just hasn't worked out here for whatever reason and the sooner we are rid the better. The ruthless approach we are taking applies as much to him as anyone else. I often throw in a pic of Korey Smith’s goals and assists contributions. Or Matty James. I know we have different views, but I do think there are some who use goals / assists as the only measure. You could argue that the games he’s played with Alex Scott have been some of his best performances. You could argue he might actually be suited to Nige’s new set-up. My view is there’s a player in there…who’s been badly advised or is homesick, or a combo of both. He’s put a lot into his career to maximise his opportunity to become a better player…And at 21, I’m disappointed we won’t see how he develops. He’s younger than Owura Edwards. Alex Scott is just unique for a club like us. 27 minutes ago, REDOXO said: By and large this is how I see it. The kid did not develop beyond the neat little drag backs and getting between the opposing player and the ball. Four years and we have what we had on day one. As much as I would like the kid to go on win the World Cup and make us 40% of gazillions it’s not going to happen here. All of this nonsense about contracts is the kid and his advisors pretty much thinking the same thing. I had to laugh about the thought that Anderslecht have an interest. If it’s only one club (and I have my doubts) it would seem most likely he’s here until June. If that’s the case so be it. As per above, Nige confirmed Anderlecht yesterday. The other club I’ve heard would make more sense if he’s waiting on that. I’ll happily share a screenshot of the message (names cropped out) if that makes the news at some point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, mozo said: So for me there has to be more to this. NP stated Massengo brought the situation upon himself, so I have to assume/hope that Massengo has done more than just say he's leaving eventually. When the position became clear Nigel spoke positively about him as a person and a player. He said they had had a discussion and HNM said he would be ready if Nigel ever needed him to play. There was no evidence of any conflict between them and let's face it Nigel can be pretty blunt about a player's attitude if he doesn't like it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 16 hours ago, GrahamC said: So why was on the bench v Watford, then? With no intention to ever bring him on? That makes absolutely no sense, especially as Kadji was available. Conspiracy theory rubbish. People are taking this 99 appearances shout as read. Yet according to our digital programme this morning he’s played 110..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, Davefevs said: We don’t know whether he has “turned down”, but Nige said yesterday “there was talk about Anderlecht” (19:25 into presser). So nothing to say he turned down a team because he didn't fancy it then 3 minutes ago, glynriley said: People are taking this 99 appearances shout as read. Yet according to our digital programme this morning he’s played 110..? 99 league games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 hours ago, mozo said: So you're saying it's not something that we're doing on principle? By your logic we could have two players in identical situations but we'd treat them differently. That doesn't sound right? Plus he's played 99 times for the club and has been man of the match on several occasions. We've also had games where his energy and quality could have improved the team. Omar's first appearance is encouraging but let's not claim he's a better player than Massengo at this current time. Where did I claim he’s a better player I didn’t did I. Plus your comparison between Han & their best player is ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidal Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 hours ago, mozo said: Go on... I’m surprised this even needs explaining, but Brereton-Diaz is a 15-20 goal a season forward, and one of the best players in the championship, Massengo is a 1 assist in 30 player who has 1 good game in 2 years. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, frenchred said: So nothing to say he turned down a team because he didn't fancy it then I thought you were referring to the Anderlecht bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, Vidal said: I’m surprised this even needs explaining, but Brereton-Diaz is a 15-20 goal a season forward, and one of the best players in the championship, Massengo is a 1 assist in 30 player who has 1 good game in 2 You've missed the point then? The similarity is that they both have chosen not to sign a new contract and both intend to leave their respective clubs. So I would assume they should be treated equally? But it seems that some of us feel that punishing a player for that behaviour only applied if the player doesn't score goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidal Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, mozo said: You've missed the point then? The similarity is that they both have chosen not to sign a new contract and both intend to leave their respective clubs. So I would assume they should be treated equally? But it seems that some of us feel that punishing a player for that behaviour only applied if the player doesn't score goals. Why would they be treated equally when one is far superior and offers more value than the other . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 All you have to ask yourself is, are we any more dependent on HNM since the day he walked in? Absolutely not. If he left tomorrow, nothing would change on the pitch tbh. Can the same be said for Semenyo, Scott? God no. Even conway, we’ve become far more expectant/reliant on him in the space of his first 8 games than Massengo has managed in 3 years, that’s the sad truth of it. He doesn’t deserve an improved contract, and doesn’t even deserve an extension of the terms he’s on currently given the change in economic factors externally and internally. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, Vidal said: I’m surprised this even needs explaining, but Brereton-Diaz is a 15-20 goal a season forward, and one of the best players in the championship, Massengo is a 1 assist in 30 player who has 1 good game in 2 years. Maybe our opinions differ because I think Massengo would have improved our team at times and you don't? Massengo is an established first team player, rightly in my opinion. Surely any first team player would be treated equally irrespective of their goalscoring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 43 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: Plasterboard painted Magnolia. Nice to know who's on top, Major 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidal Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, mozo said: Maybe our opinions differ because I think Massengo would have improved our team at times and you don't? Massengo is an established first team player, rightly in my opinion. Surely any first team player would be treated equally irrespective of their goalscoring? No not really. I think he has proven to be a really poor signing. An excellent first month which has been followed by a string of poor performances with the odd good game thrown in. Poor decision making time and time again, spends far too long on the ball, positionally all over the place….hasn’t worked out. Massengo has never been an established first team player, and no, they won’t get treated equally, the fact you think this shows your naivity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 13 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I thought you were referring to the Anderlecht bit. No I wasn't that but is pretty clear with what Pearson said yesterday the bit I was referring to was that HNM had turned down a club in this window as he didn't fancy it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, petehinton said: All you have to ask yourself is, are we any more dependent on HNM since the day he walked in? Absolutely not. If he left tomorrow, nothing would change on the pitch tbh. Can the same be said for Semenyo, Scott? God no. Even conway, we’ve become far more expectant/reliant on him in the space of his first 8 games than Massengo has managed in 3 years, that’s the sad truth of it. He doesn’t deserve an improved contract, and doesn’t even deserve an extension of the terms he’s on currently given the change in economic factors externally and internally. We can agree to disagree on that one. I still think he's got loads of potential and that there were games where he could have had an impact had we selected him. To me, leaving him in the reserves is to City's detriment and so would require a good reason for that decision. But if you, Vidal, Stevie and others don't rate him then it's no surprise we see the situation differently. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, italian dave said: When has he said he doesn’t want to play for us? Something else I’ve missed, along with those detailed contract offers?? Not this season but long term he is not wanting a new contract after June 2023, so in effect he doesn't want to play for BCFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, frenchred said: 99 league games We can use him for our cup run then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, mozo said: We can agree to disagree on that one. I still think he's got loads of potential and that there were games where he could have had an impact had we selected him. To me, leaving him in the reserves is to City's detriment and so would require a good reason for that decision. But if you, Vidal, Stevie and others don't rate him then it's no surprise we see the situation differently. Don’t totally disagree, but iirc we’ll still get a fairly chunky bit of compensation @Davefevs), even more so if he goes abroad which he more than likely will? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, frenchred said: Got the details of who he turned down? Or just more unfounded bullshit? Anderlecht, Pearson mentioned it in the press conference yesterday. Or is Pearson in this camp as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidal Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, petehinton said: Don’t totally disagree, but iirc we’ll still get a fairly chunky bit of compensation @Davefevs), even more so if he goes abroad which he more than likely will? Can’t see him staying in England. Can go to a top European side I.e Magnússon, and quality will be lower than champ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 Just now, GrahamC said: Anderlecht, Pearson mentioned it in the press conference yesterday. Or is Pearson in this camp as well? At no point did Pearson say he turned down Anderlecht as he didn't fancy it as you inferred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveF Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 11 hours ago, alexukhc said: Chances of Han going to Hibs come the summer? Zero. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidal Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 13 minutes ago, petehinton said: All you have to ask yourself is, are we any more dependent on HNM since the day he walked in? Absolutely not. If he left tomorrow, nothing would change on the pitch tbh. Can the same be said for Semenyo, Scott? God no. Even conway, we’ve become far more expectant/reliant on him in the space of his first 8 games than Massengo has managed in 3 years, that’s the sad truth of it. He doesn’t deserve an improved contract, and doesn’t even deserve an extension of the terms he’s on currently given the change in economic factors externally and internally. Well said. Disappointing to see how it’s turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, frenchred said: At no point did Pearson say he turned down Anderlecht as he didn't fancy it as you inferred You believe what you like, to be honest put me on ignore if you like, I’m not sure we are gaining much by replying to each other, you contradict everything I post & I have zero respect for your opinion. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, mozo said: We can agree to disagree on that one. I still think he's got loads of potential and that there were games where he could have had an impact had we selected him. To me, leaving him in the reserves is to City's detriment and so would require a good reason for that decision. But if you, Vidal, Stevie and others don't rate him then it's no surprise we see the situation differently. The good reason is there are at least 4 better proven Championship players ahead of him plus an old head who covers gaps and 2 promising players being given opportunities. If we were desperately short of players he'd play but we're not. I see virtually no detriment to him being left out. It's the same argument with Bentley. If we kept playing him after the aberration at Birmingham it would make no sense as he's clearly leaving. We're finding out that Max is up to this level IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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