Nige quite happy today

[REDOXO]

Just now, Red-Robbo said:

 

Don't know what to say RO. We usually agree on stuff.

I just made observations based on how I'd feel if someone spoke to me as Pearson has - at times - spoken to journalists. Being from the industry, I gave my background tuppence-worth on how that's received by those still working in it. 

FWIW I actually think his answers are usually quite illuminating and thoughtful. He just needs to be a bit less abrasive delivering them. 

I’m good with it. I gave mine too. 
 

Not worth tuppence mind you!

[lenred]

54 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

 

Lovely that you identify so strongly with the man that I literally cannot offer the slightest criticism of him without getting this sort of response.

Good job I didn't get started on my opinions of those gilets he wears.  

I'll leave you with three thoughts: a local journalist doing a public broadcast is never going to say "I find so-and-so difficult and a bit rude and patronising" unless said individual has left their local club and maybe even retired. It just will never happen. You have to work with the guy. You cannot fall out while he's in his job. Saying "I have yet to establish a rapport" but guys who work with him in the game like him is NOT the same as saying you personally like him. I think those words were quite carefully chosen.

Secondly, managers get sacked for all sorts of reasons but never in my experience because they are hounded out by journalists. Most are sacked because they lose lots of games. Journalists would be remiss if they failed to mention crowd disquiet, demonstrations etc, as they did when there were widespread LJ out feeling. In that case, I think Lee was given an opportunity to give his thoughts on them, as was Steve Lansdown. I'm unaware of any "hounding" of Nigel by the press here, only in social media by fans. Do you have an example of an "arsey" comment he has had to endure, Len?

Thirdly, just to remind you of this: 

It isn't part of a Pearson-out agenda. He'll stand or fall on his record, not on his professionalism in dealing with reporters. I hope we continue seeing signs of improvement on the pitch. 

Not sure if all or part of your reply was in response to me but my question wasn’t in relation to NP or any other City manager per se, but in general . I thought I had made that clear in my question but apologies if not.  For example Eddie Jones was clearly hounded out by journalists at The Times. Taylor, Robson, Hoddle clearly hounded out of the England job.   Roy Hodgson clearly hounded out of Liverpool and England. These are off the top of my head and I’m sure I could think of more.  Yea it’s a results business, but some journalists clearly hold agendas in some circumstances - it’s good for circulation I’d imagine.   So I’m wondering if ‘respect’ is just a one way street. ps Re the arsey comment - that was to clarify my question to you was not meant to you in an antagonistic / arsey manner. Nothing about NP! 

Edited January 23, 2023 by lenred

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, lenred said:

Not sure if all or part of your reply was in response to me but my question wasn’t in relation to NP or any other City manager per se, but in general . I thought I had made that clear in my question but apologies if not.  For example Eddie Jones was clearly hounded out by journalists at The Times. Taylor, Robson, Hoddle clearly hounded out of the England job.   Roy Hodgson clearly hounded out of Liverpool and England. These are off the top of my head.  Journalists clearly hold agendas in some circumstances - it’s good for circulation I’d image.   

 

If they'd been successful*, they'd not have lost their jobs. No owner, or for that matter the idiots of the FA and RFU, has ever said "This guy is doing really well for me, but a journalist doesn't like him, so I'm going to fire him."

Tabloid back pages are a law unto themselves, but even they aren't what cost the people you mentioned their jobs. 

 

* OK, so a bit different with Hoddle as he was sacked for being a bit mad. Papers merely reported on what he'd said, I can't remember them actively campaigning for his dismissal. Speaking personally, I feel the FA overreacted, but other people suggest they used the disability thing because there was other disquiet over his tenure. 

[lenred]

Just now, Red-Robbo said:

 

If they'd been successful*, they'd not have lost their jobs. No owner, or for that matter the idiots of the FA and RFU, has ever said "This guy is doing really well for me, but a journalist doesn't like him, so I'm going to fire him."

Tabloid back pages are a law unto themselves, but even they aren't what cost the people you mentioned their jobs. 

 

* OK, so a bit different with Hoddle as he was sacked for being a bit mad. Papers merely reported on what he'd said, I can't remember them actively campaigning for his dismissal. Speaking personally, I feel the FA overreacted, but other people suggest they used the disability thing because there was other disquiet over his tenure. 

Eddie Jones had the best win ratio of any England coach but anyway……

 You disagree that journalists have / had a huge part to play in how public opinion swings in favour or against public faces, including sports managers? Maybe not so much anymore but back before social media then public opinion was hugely swayed by the papers in this country.   But we will agree to disagree. I’m possibly not explaining myself very well. 

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

More a cumulation of "reactions" and posts that make me think that the poster in question and I will not see eye to eye on anything and I can't be bothered with the antagonism of it. 

I know what I'm like in an argument so always better to walk away and ignore rather than drawing battle lines and bickering. Nobody can be arsed to read that.

My response was referring to one poster in particular. I don't think Nige can do no wrong because I'm fully aware that football is a game of the finest margins, what I try to do is try to judge things based on the context or information that is available at the point a decision is made rather than being effected by hindsight or outcome bias.

Having worked in youth football at various levels I know that a decision or action will almost always be made for the right reasons. The outcome is always in the laps of the gods and is kind of irrelevant. 

I do think criticising any managers interview style is mental. But that's just me. Plenty of good arguments as to why it's important to others in this thread but on the list of important things I want my manager to focus on, post match interviews with a local radio station is bottom by a mile. His press conferences with the written media are invariably (not always) good and insightful. But so we're Lee Johnson's and Steve Cotterill's. Just in very different ways. 

 

Thanks for the reply - and fair comment. I noticed after I'd posted that you'd crossed swords in a couple of other threads! My only comment would be that you don't have to post in response - ignoring a poster completely means you never read what they say, some of which you may agree with, some not, but that's what this is all about?

I'm certainly with you on the points you make about making judgements in the context of football management: I've long shied away from getting into 'in' or 'out' camps for any manager because there's so much we don't see or know about, so much that can change with those fine margins, and at the end of the day its completely outside our control anyway! I just hope - whoever they are - that they'll turn the corner next game and we never look back. (I'm often disappointed!)

Managers interview styles seems a bit of an obsession on here - SOD was another one! 

My bugbear though (hence my comment) is the way that things are so often seen in terms of black and white on here. Whether it's a player or a manager, they can either do no wrong at all, or everything they do is wrong. We all know life isn't like that.

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Thanks for the reply - and fair comment. I noticed after I'd posted that you'd crossed swords in a couple of other threads! My only comment would be that you don't have to post in response - ignoring a poster completely means you never read what they say, some of which you may agree with, some not, but that's what this is all about?

I'm certainly with you on the points you make about making judgements in the context of football management: I've long shied away from getting into 'in' or 'out' camps for any manager because there's so much we don't see or know about, so much that can change with those fine margins, and at the end of the day its completely outside our control anyway! I just hope - whoever they are - that they'll turn the corner next game and we never look back. (I'm often disappointed!)

Managers interview styles seems a bit of an obsession on here - SOD was another one! 

My bugbear though (hence my comment) is the way that things are so often seen in terms of black and white on here. Whether it's a player or a manager, they can either do no wrong at all, or everything they do is wrong. We all know life isn't like that.

Nail on head ID…it’s rarely black and white, and it’s quite possible to have a different opinion whilst accepting the other person’s point too.

[Red-Robbo]

47 minutes ago, lenred said:

Eddie Jones had the best win ratio of any England coach but anyway……

 You disagree that journalists have / had a huge part to play in how public opinion swings in favour or against public faces, including sports managers? Maybe not so much anymore but back before social media then public opinion was hugely swayed by the papers in this country.   But we will agree to disagree. I’m possibly not explaining myself very well. 

 

Yes, but at the time of his dismissal he'd lost 7 out of the last 12 tests. So, past exploits didn't keep him in his position and Times' pundits certainly weren't the only Rugby followers thinking it was time for him to go.  I don't think any journalist wrote a disparaging report of him when he arrived and started having success.

Do sports reporters lead public opinion - or reflect it? People were moaning about Graham Taylor long before the turnip jibe. It may not have helped his case, but if he'd achieved the level of success the FA wanted, he'd have retained his job. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Exactly! I really do wish some were not as soft and offended as they are! 
 

Durden is a professional and part of the interview is the way it’s made and responded to. The fact we are talking about it on here means Durden got the required result. 
 

——

IMO We are a soft ass club, which is reflected in our home support and quite a lot on here. Where we were two years ago was in many ways a reflection of this. Would people prefer bullshit bingo on radio Brizz at 5oc on a Saturday. 

Probably got worse post redevelopment too. The sustained anger towards the officials just dissipates almost as quickly as it arrives- crowd dynamics changing as the game becomes more commercial, moving the tunnel towards a more passive part of the ground probably is nicer to enter and exit via the Lansdown than a tunnel by the home end.

Load of factors, some specific and some general. Football crowds seem more passive in general than 20 years ago IMO let alone the examples of before.

In fact it's probably become more pronounced as a factor every few years since 1992, will vary club by club of course.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

In terms of getting on the backs of the opposition and especially officials we do need to do so more IMO. Tunnel behind a goal maybe one step, "S*** referee" lacks the anger of some of the older chants and fizzles our fairly quickly.

"The referee's a ******" or "The referee, is full of ****" the latter to the tune of When the Saints go Marching in is more apt. Yes they are a bit sweary but we need to find ways to influence the officials a bit. That's two for a start...

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In terms of getting on the backs of the opposition and especially officials we do need to do so more IMO. Tunnel behind a goal maybe one step, "S*** referee" lacks the anger of some of the older chants and fizzles our fairly quickly.

"The referee's a ******" or "The referee, is full of ****" the latter to the tune of When the Saints go Marching in is more apt. Yes they are a bit sweary but we need to find ways to influence the officials a bit. That's two for a start...

 

A ref I spoke to once said "you don't know what you're doing" was the chant that hurt him the most. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

A ref I spoke to once said "you don't know what you're doing" was the chant that hurt him the most. 

Yeah that's interesting but makes sense. Angry sweary chants can be disregarded to some extent. We don't really hear that one so much either. 

[italian dave]

4 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

I'm sure we all think it of ourselves, but I do try to ensure the majority of my thoughts are based on at least some evidence and experience rather than gut feeling. I certainly don't see things as black and white. I'm fully behind Nige and I'm absolutely fine with accusations of being a disciple of the cult of Nige. I believe wholeheartedly that he's the best man for the club and that his guidance will get us through a truly turbulent period (I think that there is a bit of fatigue about that very important context, but it is THE most important aspect of any assessment of his performance). 

I disagree with him on selection quite often. I'd never have gone 433, I'd never have dropped HNM, I'd have persisted with KN in the middle of the back three, I'd have used CM more (especially with AS), I'd have released Jay Dasilva... but that's all personal preferences and our manager having a different view to me is absolutely fine. He should, I'm an overweight civil servant with no experience at pro/men's football either coaching or playing. What the hell do I know? 

I actually think it's the win rate "Nige out brigade" who see things as black and white. The context of FFP, an imbalanced squad of frauds (Palmer) arseholes (Bakinson) and crocks (Kalas), a dangerously incompetent medical team, a non existent recruitment department, covid, a block in the academy pathway etc etc etc is completely ignored with "29% win rate" as the totality of the argument. 

But whatever side of an argument you fall on you're always inclined to see your side as balanced and the other as blinkered. 

Still, the team have given Nige some breathing room with recent performances. It remains a period for us all to get behind the team and judge after the summer. That's the big moment. That's the first time we'll have wriggle room to actually improve the team externally. I'm happy to wait, there's no rush. I'd sooner do it this way than risk the future of the club like Derby/Wigan/Leeds etc.

 

That feels like it's ended up quite rambling, so sorry for that  

No worries: I like rambling - as anyone who's seen some of my posts will realise!

I wasn't intending to label you in that 'only black and white' description: I think this conversation began - way back - with me saying something along the lines of 'in danger of' or 'appearing to' or something like that.

I know what you're saying: the counter argument of course is that win rates and league position is what all managers get judged on at the end of the day. They all inherit (or at least most) a pile of crap when they arrive at a club and if you're at Watford you get 10 games to sort it!! I'm glad - and I suspect you feel the same - that we don't do that at City (it didn't work when we did) and I do think that those in the club, and the vast majority of fans too, recognise that context. There will always be a few. 

Yes: Saturday it felt really important that we didn't lose. And it does feel like we are giving ourselves that bit of space. I was worried that we'd do what we'd done twice before in the past couple of years - follow a good 3-4 results and a couple of really good performances with a run of defeats. We haven't gone there this time (touch wood). The next 2-3 games will be really significant I think. 

 

[Leveller]

16 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

I'm sure we all think it of ourselves, but I do try to ensure the majority of my thoughts are based on at least some evidence and experience rather than gut feeling. I certainly don't see things as black and white. I'm fully behind Nige and I'm absolutely fine with accusations of being a disciple of the cult of Nige. I believe wholeheartedly that he's the best man for the club and that his guidance will get us through a truly turbulent period (I think that there is a bit of fatigue about that very important context, but it is THE most important aspect of any assessment of his performance). 

I disagree with him on selection quite often. I'd never have gone 433, I'd never have dropped HNM, I'd have persisted with KN in the middle of the back three, I'd have used CM more (especially with AS), I'd have released Jay Dasilva... but that's all personal preferences and our manager having a different view to me is absolutely fine. He should, I'm an overweight civil servant with no experience at pro/men's football either coaching or playing. What the hell do I know? 

I actually think it's the win rate "Nige out brigade" who see things as black and white. The context of FFP, an imbalanced squad of frauds (Palmer) arseholes (Bakinson) and crocks (Kalas), a dangerously incompetent medical team, a non existent recruitment department, covid, a block in the academy pathway etc etc etc is completely ignored with "29% win rate" as the totality of the argument. 

But whatever side of an argument you fall on you're always inclined to see your side as balanced and the other as blinkered. 

Still, the team have given Nige some breathing room with recent performances. It remains a period for us all to get behind the team and judge after the summer. That's the big moment. That's the first time we'll have wriggle room to actually improve the team externally. I'm happy to wait, there's no rush. I'd sooner do it this way than risk the future of the club like Derby/Wigan/Leeds etc.

 

That feels like it's ended up quite rambling, so sorry for that  

Edited January 24, 2023 by Leveller

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, Deluded Sag said:

Well you pay his wages, so you are entitled to expect improvement both on off the pitch. Nigel is old enough and has managed enough clubs to have learned how to speak to people who are only doing their job. Ferguson used to do it, but then he was a genuinely elite manager who had won everything in the game. Nigel........

Its unprofessional and I'm wondering if Lansdown has had a quiet word with him. If he hasn't, I'm wondering why not. 

 

As petulant as Pearson can be, give me that over gob-on-a-stick, ego-tripping, stream-of-drivel Barton's pre- and post-match analysis. He seems to think he's some sort of auxiliary Scouse Gallagher brother. 

I'd be on a perma-cringe if I heard my club's manager slag off other professionals working in the third tier, then go on to lose to their sides!

[RedHienz]

7 hours ago, Deluded Sag said:

Well you pay his wages, so you are entitled to expect improvement both on off the pitch. Nigel is old enough and has managed enough clubs to have learned how to speak to people who are only doing their job. Ferguson used to do it, but then he was a genuinely elite manager who had won everything in the game. Nigel........

Its unprofessional and I'm wondering if Lansdown has had a quiet word with him. If he hasn't, I'm wondering why not. 

I'm wondering why you have so many opinions on a club whose name you you spell with an Asterix due to some odd belief that writing it would harm you. 

I am concerned with professional sports hiring those of dubious morale's such as repeat offenders who seems to make a habit of GBH. 

On topic Nigel is a breathe of fresh air, honest although somewhat rude at times. 

[bcfc01]

37 minutes ago, RedHienz said:

I'm wondering why you have so many opinions on a club whose name you you spell with an Asterix due to some odd belief that writing it would harm you. 

I am concerned with professional sports hiring those of dubious morale's such as repeat offenders who seems to make a habit of GBH. 

On topic Nigel is a breathe of fresh air, honest although somewhat rude at times. 

That just about sums it up.

I like his honesty and couldn't give a toss about his rudeness.

 

[glynriley]

49 minutes ago, Deluded Sag said:

At times? Nigel has a long-established attitude problem. Lansdown needs to have a quiet word. If you are that concerned about Barton, create a separate thread. We are speaking about your manager and his lack of basic manners, courtesy and respect when speaking to journalists. 

 

Perhaps you should be less concerned that our manager can be a bit rude to journalists, and more with the fact that yours beats up women and children.

You come on here talking about lack of respect. Your manager is a thug and convicted felon. Square that you deluded ****.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by glynriley