Gordon to Newcastle, Caicedo to Arsenal

[TheReds]

On 29/01/2023 at 11:17, And Its Smith said:

I think you know what I meant. I meant an expectation not to have a contract situation affect a selection.  Massengo might not expect to be picked but he’s certainly good enough for the bench.  

I don't doubt that, but if he is going, and will be going for nothing (wasn't he also one who refused to go on loan, apologies if I have that wrong), then personally I would do the same as what Pearson has done with him. 

If Pearson kept picking players who wanted out (but ability wise they should be on the bench), then when do these/our youngsters get given the chance and gain some experience? We got a bit of a feel good factor coming back and part of that is the amazing academy young 'uns coming through to the first team. I'd be amazed if the huge majority would want Massengo on the bench in front of what is currently being picked.

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, TheReds said:

I don't doubt that, but if he is going, and will be going for nothing (wasn't he also one who refused to go on loan, apologies if I have that wrong), then personally I would do the same as what Pearson has done with him. 

If Pearson kept picking players who wanted out (but ability wise they should be on the bench), then when do these/our youngsters get given the chance and gain some experience? We got a bit of a feel good factor coming back and part of that is the amazing academy young 'uns coming through to the first team. I'd be amazed if the huge majority would want Massengo on the bench in front of what is currently being picked.

Maybe but clubs can’t have it both ways. You can’t freeze players out for not signing a new contract and then moan when players want a move for a better contract 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Maybe but clubs can’t have it both ways. You can’t freeze players out for not signing a new contract and then moan when players want a move for a better contract 

I guess the question is - who’s moaning about players moving for better contracts?  Not the bloke who is freezing a player out.

[TheReds]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Maybe but clubs can’t have it both ways. You can’t freeze players out for not signing a new contract and then moan when players want a move for a better contract 

Of course they can, that's how the contract works.

If a player wants to sign a life changing contract and say it's 5 years long then that is down to them and their representative isn't it? If they want out half way down the line of that contract, and actually refuse to play to try and force a move, and you think that is acceptable, then what is the point of a contract in the first place? The club can freeze that player out if they wish. More to the point why haven't the player and his agent negotiated a shorter contract in the first place - maybe because the greed got them then, and now even more greed is getting to them again?

I wonder if any of those players would happily move if their wages were being halved - or would they then happily see out their current contract.,....

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, TheReds said:

Of course they can, that's how the contract works.

If a player wants to sign a life changing contract and say it's 5 years long then that is down to them and their representative isn't it? If they want out half way down the line of that contract, and actually refuse to play to try and force a move, and you think that is acceptable, then what is the point of a contract in the first place? The club can freeze that player out if they wish. More to the point why haven't the player and his agent negotiated a shorter contract in the first place - maybe because the greed got them then, and now even more greed is getting to them again?

I wonder if any of those players would happily move if their wages were being halved - or would they then happily see out their current contract.,....

Everton have frozen players out for refusing to sign a contract that they aren’t obliged to sign and then moaned when a player refuses to play. In my opinion they can’t refuse to pick a player and then have an issue with a player refusing to be picked.  Maybe my view is a minority one which is fine 

[TheReds]

13 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Everton have frozen players out for refusing to sign a contract that they aren’t obliged to sign and then moaned when a player refuses to play. In my opinion they can’t refuse to pick a player and then have an issue with a player refusing to be picked.  Maybe my view is a minority one which is fine 

So let's say we have frozen out Massengo (which seems we can all agree on). Are you now happy if Alex Scott says he refuses to play unless he gets a move now to a Prem club? Or Conway may have a few clubs watching higher up than us (even in the Championship), what if both said they wouldn't play for us now whilst being on contract. I'd be absolutely fuming seeing as we seem to have given them both a great chance with their lives/careers. 

[And Its Smith]

20 minutes ago, TheReds said:

So let's say we have frozen out Massengo (which seems we can all agree on). Are you now happy if Alex Scott says he refuses to play unless he gets a move now to a Prem club? Or Conway may have a few clubs watching higher up than us (even in the Championship), what if both said they wouldn't play for us now whilst being on contract. I'd be absolutely fuming seeing as we seem to have given them both a great chance with their lives/careers. 

Fans and club can be different.  I disagree with freezing out Massengo so can then be annoyed if the situation you describe occurs.  I would see it as hypocritical to agree with Massengo being frozen out and then being annoyed at players pushing for a move 

[maxjak]

Seems like Han Noah has continued playing for the U21s, kept fit and available for selection.  He hasn't moaned or caused any problems, I believe he has every right to refuse a new contract, it is a shame that Pearson froze him out, but i guess it was more to do with using players who were commited to the club......rather than using anyone who was always intending to leave?  So maybe "frozen out"  is a misnomer?  Shame that Han never   got his century, but i wish him well in his future, it will be interesting to see how his career develops in the years ahead?.

Edited January 30, 2023 by maxjak

[TheReds]

44 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Fans and club can be different.  I disagree with freezing out Massengo so can then be annoyed if the situation you describe occurs.  I would see it as hypocritical to agree with Massengo being frozen out and then being annoyed at players pushing for a move 

Sorry, I meant that as we all agree that Massengo has been frozen out.

Therefore, if Scott and Conway both refused to play for us now whilst in contract because they could get a better move now, you would be happy with that situation should it arise (simply because the club have frozen out Massengo previously)?

 

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Sorry, I meant that as we all agree that Massengo has been frozen out.

Therefore, if Scott and Conway both refused to play for us now whilst in contract because they could get a better move now, you would be happy with that situation should it arise (simply because the club have frozen out Massengo previously)?

 

No that’s not what I am saying.  I am saying the CLUB can’t moan if the CLUB freeze a player out. The fans can moan as the fans haven’t chosen to freeze the player out.   

[TheReds]

13 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

No that’s not what I am saying.  I am saying the CLUB can’t moan if the CLUB freeze a player out. The fans can moan as the fans haven’t chosen to freeze the player out.   

Ok thanks for clarifying.

If Scott refused to play, I just can't see how anyone would think the club can't moan about it just because they have froze out Massengo or any player previously. I just don't get that whatsoever but all about opinions.