Mason Gone

[maxjak]

Well done Howard Webb for acting swiftly and getting rid of the incompetent Lee Mason, (who thought he'd have a go at deciding the fate of the Premier League Title this year),  from the VAR panel. Hopefully now that Webb's in charge VAR will improve it's efficiency and cease to be such an embarrassment? Here's Hoping

[Rob k]

2 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Well done Howard Webb for acting swiftly and getting rid of the incompetent Lee Mason, (who thought he'd have a go at deciding the fate of the Premier League Title this year),  from the VAR panel. Hopefully now that Webb's in charge VAR will improve it's efficiency and cease to be such an embarrassment? Here's Hoping

Now just get rid of VAR fullstop

 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

21 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Well done Howard Webb for acting swiftly and getting rid of the incompetent Lee Mason, (who thought he'd have a go at deciding the fate of the Premier League Title this year),  from the VAR panel. Hopefully now that Webb's in charge VAR will improve it's efficiency and cease to be such an embarrassment? Here's Hoping

The way football is going there will be nobody wanting to be a referee very soon. Far too much scrutiny of every decision. VAR has made it even worse. Bin it before the game dies.

[steviestevieneville]

31 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Now just get rid of VAR fullstop

 

Not going to happen unfortunately 

[maxjak]

3 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Not going to happen unfortunately 

I think many of us would like to see it gone, but as you say, it's here to stay ..........so the best thing is to make it as good as it can possibly be?  Howard Webb is at least a step in the right direction IMHO.    

[Robbored]

33 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Now just get rid of VAR fullstop

 

There are different opinions on that. Listening to TalkSport earlier this week the VaR debate was between Murphy, White and Jordon who pointed out that VaR has increased the accuracy of the game. The counter argument was that it takes too much time to confirm or deny a goal or penalty and reduced the spontaneity of celebration of a goal.

This discussion was after the Brentford/Arsenal fiasco caused by human error since when Mason has been essentially sacked.

However - the bottom line is that VaR is here to stay.

[A Horse With No Name]

How did we get from VAR being introduced " to avoid any clear and obvious errors from the referee" to this quote last week from Mark Halsey. " Every single goal scored is checked for any foul, offside or handball both in its execution and in the build up" 
This has materialised in just a few years.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, CrackingCheeseGromit said:

How did we get from VAR being introduced " to avoid any clear and obvious errors from the referee" to this quote last week from Mark Halsey. " Every single goal scored is checked for any foul, offside or handball both in its execution and in the build up" 
This has materialised in just a few years.

For me it’s why it should be a manager referral system, like cricket.  If the players / manager thinks there is a bad decision, the manager can use his referral.  Use it, get it right, keep it.  Use it, get it wrong, lose it.  You’ll soon see it become a better system, and those managers that try it on.  Bit like certain bowlers who assure you it pitched in line and the video umpire shows differently.

[Robbored]

That’s an excellent idea Dave. It works well in cricket and with a tweak here or there could be adapted to football.

Someone should email Howard Webb as the main man at the PGMOL these days. 

[Hxj]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

For me it’s why it should be a manager referral system, like cricket.

Nothing I enjoy more when sat in the Radcliffe Road stand at Trent Bridge is a good old 'Referral', we all get to follow every microsecond of the ball's travel, and jeer and cheer at the same time, and then it's "Umpire's choice" and we all go to the bar and get another pint.

Cricket has it so right.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Hxj

[bcfc01]

51 minutes ago, CrackingCheeseGromit said:

How did we get from VAR being introduced " to avoid any clear and obvious errors from the referee" to this quote last week from Mark Halsey. " Every single goal scored is checked for any foul, offside or handball both in its execution and in the build up" 
This has materialised in just a few years.

I totally agree with you, its got way out of hand. I'd like to know if its applied in the same way everywhere else, the world cup didn't seem to have any issues with it. Why the hell is there a need to check every goal scored ? Who decided that ?

It just makes a farce of the game as it stands.

[Baldyman]

Genuinely feel sorry for Lee Mason . He never signed up for the s@@t show that’s VAR 2023 when he started 15 years ago . I don’t necessarily see it that he’s been sacked either . He’s probably just thought “ bugger this for a game of soldiers “ enough’s enough ! 

[maxjak]

12 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

Genuinely feel sorry for Lee Mason . He never signed up for the s@@t show that’s VAR 2023 when he started 15 years ago . I don’t necessarily see it that he’s been sacked either . He’s probably just thought “ bugger this for a game of soldiers “ enough’s enough ! 

Mmmmm....don't think so.?.....he phecked up and was asked to kindly leave the building.

[Cyderman]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

For me it’s why it should be a manager referral system, like cricket.  If the players / manager thinks there is a bad decision, the manager can use his referral.  Use it, get it right, keep it.  Use it, get it wrong, lose it.  You’ll soon see it become a better system, and those managers that try it on.  Bit like certain bowlers who assure you it pitched in line and the video umpire shows differently.

Ten wickets per innings in a game of cricket though, so generally a bit of incentive not to waste reviews. With so many football matches having only one or two goals I’m not sure how you’d avoid a lot of them being spuriously ’reviewed’ anyway on the off-chance?

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, Cyderman said:

Ten wickets per innings in a game of cricket though, so generally a bit of incentive not to waste reviews. With so many football matches having only one or two goals I’m not sure how you’d avoid a lot of them being spuriously ’reviewed’ anyway on the off-chance?

In cricket you have 2 reviews per innings, just have one in football….only appeal / review the ones you genuinely think are wrong.  If Maloney reviews Big Rob’s header on Wednesday, then he’s wasted it.  And if he did, what’s it gonna take, 10 secs to show it to be valid goal.

Even Sam Bell’s the other week would just be a case of getting the lines drawn.  The WC graphics were far superior in getting offsides correct.

I probably needs further thought, but I do think it puts the onus back on the manager and takes the pressure off the officials.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Davefevs

[Red_Nine]

Var isn’t a problem it’s the damn rules being so complicated 

[Loco Rojo]

How can football make such a meal out of something so simple. 

Cameras record it and multiple people can review it and in slow motion and still the get it wrong.

 

[southside]

 

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VAR system to be brought in to eliminate VAR errors

17th February 2023

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A NEW VAR system to correct bad VAR decisions is to be introduced in a bid to eliminate human error from football once and for all.

Officials have confirmed that there will be Video Assistant Referees watching decisions made by Video Assistant Referees who are watching decisions of on-field referees.

FA spokesperson Tom Logan said: “The idea of VAR was to ensure objective truth and put an end to all controversy in football.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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“But somehow this hasn’t happened, and we currently have a system that has sucked the joy and spontaneity out of any goal celebration, while being just as error-prone as the bad old days. It’s clear there is only one solution: more VAR.

“Putting up with incredibly lengthy delays while we review every single VAR decision is a price worth paying as our extra tier of scrutiny will ensure the accuracy of marginal factors in offside decisions such as eyelash length.

“Of course, this new VAR system will be run by humans, and therefore not completely infallible, which is why we are developing a new generation of robot analysts to replace them.

“Yes, these robots might develop self-awareness and destroy humanity, but this is a price worth paying to ensure that Marcus Rashford’s nose was definitely onside in the build-up to a goal.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited February 18, 2023 by southside

[Fammyfan]

Genuinely think VAR is beneficial for the game, especially when the on field referees are primarily making the decision, meaning it should only step in to correct an incident that’s been missed.

Even for times of human error, it’s missing incidents that would have also been missed if it wasn’t in place.

There’s room for improvement but that’s working on the VAR operation itself, that could be down to the skill set or the numbers operating VAR. As for the technology itself, it works.

I genuinely believe its intervention results in more correct decisions than incorrect decisions.

As a Bristol City fan, I’m desperate for VAR to be introduced in the Championship.

Considering the penalty decisions that have gone against us, I genuinely believe we’d be better off and those points missed are probably the difference between us being where we are now and being genuine play off contenders.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Fammyfan

[GTFABM]

VAR in the premier league is a shambles and they have the best referees/officials doing it. Now imagine the day it’s introduced to the championship with the plebs we have officiating. Drop me out when that happens.

[cidered abroad]

I find it amazing that a Premier ref is dumped because of a mistake involving VAR. And how angry the Wonderful Arsenal management are about it.

Now go back to the first game of this season at Hull. Here we are, just little Bristol City losing to an appalling decision by a crap referee when he didn't see the Hull player diving in the box and gives them a penalty which proved to be the winner. All we got was yet another letter of apology. How many of those in the last six or seven years? Several at least!

Did City management go ballistic like Arsenal are? No we just get on with it because we know it will happen again with opposition players who cheat but don't get spotted by match officials. Example is the Sheff U goal when another consistent cheat, Billy Sharp, pushed Vyner as he was jumping to head the ball away and it dropped to a Sheffield player for the winning goal.

[View from the Dolman]

7 hours ago, Baldyman said:

Genuinely feel sorry for Lee Mason . He never signed up for the s@@t show that’s VAR 2023 when he started 15 years ago . I don’t necessarily see it that he’s been sacked either . He’s probably just thought “ bugger this for a game of soldiers “ enough’s enough ! 

He did sign up to be a dedicated VAR official though when he retired from being an on-field referee.

Never thought he was particularly impressive before VAR so not sure there's any sympathy from me. 

[Cyderman]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In cricket you have 2 reviews per innings, just have one in football….only appeal / review the ones you genuinely think are wrong.  If Maloney reviews Big Rob’s header on Wednesday, then he’s wasted it.  And if he did, what’s it gonna take, 10 secs to show it to be valid goal.

Even Sam Bell’s the other week would just be a case of getting the lines drawn.  The WC graphics were far superior in getting offsides correct.

I probably needs further thought, but I do think it puts the onus back on the manager and takes the pressure off the officials.

I do agree it would probably be a bit of an improvement, I'd just question how much. Any result-changing goal in the last ten minutes or so would be bound to get reviewed on the off-chance. And you'd get managers slated if they didn't review, then replays showed someone's nose was offside so they should have done.

I don't like VAR in football because I think there are just too many variables to make it work. In cricket, the stumps don't move, so it's easy to draw lines for an LBW decision because they're in the same place every time. For offsides in football, the last defender will be moving around all the time, different parts of his body will represent the line at any given point, there are potentially multiple different times during a goal scoring move when the line will need to be checked, and different defenders will represent the line at different times. If a foolproof AI system can be developed that can handle all that and check it all in seconds then fine, but the current system of humans drawing lines on a video screen I think will always be inadequate no matter who gets fired or what procedures get changed - still too many variables to avoid mistakes.

[Midred]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In cricket you have 2 reviews per innings, just have one in football….only appeal / review the ones you genuinely think are wrong.  If Maloney reviews Big Rob’s header on Wednesday, then he’s wasted it.  And if he did, what’s it gonna take, 10 secs to show it to be valid goal.

Even Sam Bell’s the other week would just be a case of getting the lines drawn.  The WC graphics were far superior in getting offsides correct.

I probably needs further thought, but I do think it puts the onus back on the manager and takes the pressure off the officials.

But Dave we have three penalty appeals turned down every match, which one would we ask to ne reviewed? 

[Bazooka Joe]

Lee Mason.

Oh Brother!

Is he on the level?

Maybe the time came for them to part company and free Mason.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Bazooka Joe

[Buster Footman's T shirt]

My worry is that he ends up back in the Championship. Keith Stroud with Lee Mason as 4th Official anyone? What could possibly go wrong?

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, Cyderman said:

I do agree it would probably be a bit of an improvement, I'd just question how much. Any result-changing goal in the last ten minutes or so would be bound to get reviewed on the off-chance. And you'd get managers slated if they didn't review, then replays showed someone's nose was offside so they should have done.

I don't like VAR in football because I think there are just too many variables to make it work. In cricket, the stumps don't move, so it's easy to draw lines for an LBW decision because they're in the same place every time. For offsides in football, the last defender will be moving around all the time, different parts of his body will represent the line at any given point, there are potentially multiple different times during a goal scoring move when the line will need to be checked, and different defenders will represent the line at different times. If a foolproof AI system can be developed that can handle all that and check it all in seconds then fine, but the current system of humans drawing lines on a video screen I think will always be inadequate no matter who gets fired or what procedures get changed - still too many variables to avoid mistakes.

The WC line drawing was so spot on. We should be using that. We don’t want to seem to want to see vAR as an evolving technology. 

6 minutes ago, Midred said:

But Dave we have three penalty appeals turned down every match, which one would we ask to ne reviewed? 

All of them. If the review is right, you keep hold of your review. 

[bearded_red]

Not one to take notice of refs, but always been aware of how poor Lee Mason is/was after that last game of the season against Birmingham.

However pathetic City were that day, and my god they were pathetic, he gave a refereeing performance that a more cynical man than me would have you believe was motivated purely by keeping Redknapp’s team up. A highlight from memory was allowing their keeper to waste time constantly, then waiting until stoppage time to book him, before he immediately took the goal kick and blew for full time.

[Midred]

39 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The WC line drawing was so spot on. We should be using that. We don’t want to seem to want to see vAR as an evolving technology. 

All of them. If the review is right, you keep hold of your review. 

That's getting past the first one then!

[Fammyfan]

3 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I find it amazing that a Premier ref is dumped because of a mistake involving VAR. And how angry the Wonderful Arsenal management are about it.

Now go back to the first game of this season at Hull. Here we are, just little Bristol City losing to an appalling decision by a crap referee when he didn't see the Hull player diving in the box and gives them a penalty which proved to be the winner. All we got was yet another letter of apology. How many of those in the last six or seven years? Several at least!

Did City management go ballistic like Arsenal are? No we just get on with it because we know it will happen again with opposition players who cheat but don't get spotted by match officials. Example is the Sheff U goal when another consistent cheat, Billy Sharp, pushed Vyner as he was jumping to head the ball away and it dropped to a Sheffield player for the winning goal.

Two examples of stone wall decisions that have cost us dearly.

I’m glad to see Mason going because it suggests that something is actually being done.

Up until now, it was questionable if anything was actually happening, we’ve received apology letters and you’d hope some strong feedback or warnings were being issued but crucial errors keep happening.

Whilst I don’t celebrate the misfortune of referees, it’s not just the referees I consider. There’s so much riding on this level of football that the clubs success/failure determines how much revenue is generated which is used to fund the club as a whole, meaning that these decisions this can impact the job security of those in off the field roles within the club aswell as on the field.

[BS3_RED]

The easiest way to make it work is time limit it. If its clear and obvious it should not take more than 30 secs to see the problem. As such after 30 sec the decision on the pitch stands. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by BS3_RED

[Simon bristol]

17 hours ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

The way football is going there will be nobody wanting to be a referee very soon. Far too much scrutiny of every decision. VAR has made it even worse. Bin it before the game dies.

Agreed,, these guys dont do it for money, but a billion pound industry would stop dead if it wasnt for them.

[Talk Of The Town]

16 hours ago, Robbored said:

There are different opinions on that. Listening to TalkSport earlier this week the VaR debate was between Murphy, White and Jordon who pointed out that VaR has increased the accuracy of the game. The counter argument was that it takes too much time to confirm or deny a goal or penalty and reduced the spontaneity of celebration of a goal.

This discussion was after the Brentford/Arsenal fiasco caused by human error since when Mason has been essentially sacked.

However - the bottom line is that VaR is here to stay.

Var or no var.

football still has many situations where decisions are subjective  to different humans.

id be more inclined to see more respect for officials instead of petulant reactions from players and coaches 

[Portland Bill]

19 hours ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

The way football is going there will be nobody wanting to be a referee very soon. Far too much scrutiny of every decision. VAR has made it even worse. Bin it before the game dies.

Referees are quitting in their droves, due to abuse, attacks, lack of respect etc. Leagues are struggling to operate without enough referees coming through.

But, the good news is, we have millions of armchair referees who know far more than anyone!. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

27 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Referees are quitting in their droves, due to abuse, attacks, lack of respect etc. Leagues are struggling to operate without enough referees coming through.

But, the good news is, we have millions of armchair referees who know far more than anyone!. 

I saw a story yesterday where body-worn cameras are to be trialled for refs at grass roots level. It`s sad it`s come to that but if it helps solve the problem I`m all for it.

[Portland Bill]

4 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I saw a story yesterday where body-worn cameras are to be trialled for refs at grass roots level. It`s sad it`s come to that but if it helps solve the problem I`m all for it.

Yes they are, they are being trialled in the Yorkshire area as of the next couple of weeks i think.

It is sad that it’s come to this, but hopefully it will make players think twice before their actions go over the top. 

[Portland Bill]

2 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Yes they are, they are being trialled in the Yorkshire area as of the next couple of weeks i think.

It is sad that it’s come to this, but hopefully it will make players think twice before their actions go over the top. 

North Riding is the area they are being trialled. 

[Rob k]

How’s this not a pen? Went to VAR too

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Rob k