Steady progress.

[Alessandro]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t have it in me to argue it really anymore. I just do not agree that the signs were there. Always said it felt like his influence off the pitch was immeasurable. You can feel it from the outside looking in. He had made it a healthier organisation long before this run. The match day performances were lacking and until the switch to 4 at the back we were scraping points together instead of earning them.
 

Felt he could have used the WC break to implement the 4 at the back. Bar Mehmeti, the starting XI yesterday has been here for two years or longer. Feel like our fortunes could have improved much earlier. Even in this run of unbeaten it was a lot of draws until recently. 
 

I know I just ended up arguing anyway. Just it is still my opinion that we had more in the squad then NP was getting from them. Very pleased he is getting the most from them now. 

I agree with this - I think we can all see what NP is building in terms of culture and types/styles of players - that was always going to take more time than the fans would like because he had one hand tied behind his back financially. Also all the unseen stuff behind the scenes - huge credit for that.

However, he's not been without fault when it comes to some tactical decisions and team selections and for example a few of us called for 4-3-3 back in October and could see the performances were equally relegation form results, and we were in dire form for a few months tail end of 2022 with few signs of improvements, with NP seemingly unable to stop the rot and make the change needed. I think the concern was justified, even if calls for sacking were too loud too soon.

And the fact we've seen such a big upturn (coinciding with the formation switch) shows big Nige could have a few things to learn still and that yes, I agree with you in that for various reasons this squad was underachieving under him earlier in the season IMO. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Alessandro

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t have it in me to argue it really anymore. I just do not agree that the signs were there. Always said it felt like his influence off the pitch was immeasurable. You can feel it from the outside looking in. He had made it a healthier organisation long before this run. The match day performances were lacking and until the switch to 4 at the back we were scraping points together instead of earning them.
 

Felt he could have used the WC break to implement the 4 at the back. Bar Mehmeti, the starting XI yesterday has been here for two years or longer. Feel like our fortunes could have improved much earlier. Even in this run of unbeaten it was a lot of draws until recently. 
 

I know I just ended up arguing anyway. Just it is still my opinion that we had more in the squad then NP was getting from them. Very pleased he is getting the most from them now. 

Re 4 at the back, I stand to be corrected, but haven't injuries to Atkinson (not the ACL) Kals and Tanner made it difficult to implement without square pegs being played in round holes.

Even now , with Naismith and Atkinson out we are lucky that Kala's is fit again.

[spudski]

45 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I overlooked two important points yesterday that Nige deserves much credit for.
 

Firstly he’s got our club progressing well despite losing his most valuable player - Semenyo joined B’mouth for around £10m and it looks as if Alex Scott is likely to move on in the summer window. Now I appreciate that other Championship clubs have to do the same but it just makes the managers job that more difficult when he’s having to lose his most valuable assets. Nige just accepts that losing his better players is a part of his job.

Secondly Nige has/is achieving SLs ambition of building  a squad capable of promotion made of a combination of youth and experience. Yesterday there were 5 academy graduates starting all of whom did well with the experienced Matty James being MoM in the eyes of many. it’s players like him and King that set professional standards for the younger lads to aspire to.  Really clever of Nige to add those two to the City squad. He knew both of them from his time at the Foxes that both would bring positivity and lead by example - top management that.

The likes of Sykes (25) and Tanner (23)are new to the Championship and both relatively inexperienced at this level and they both reflect how well the scouting set up is functioning. I realise that is not necessarily down to Nige but he will have had a serious input at some stage and has built a strong working relationship with Brian Tinnion who is also doing a cracking job.

The joy has certainly come back when watching City play. 

It's been covered in recent threads about how well the club are performing throughout. 

All aspects of the club, from the outside, look to have improved... Academy, talent identification, player progress, selling, coaching, togetherness, Identity, entertaining to watch....Club and fans all in it together. 

It's what you want in your Club.

At the moment it's a joy to watch. 

We now look like a top 10 side, rather than a bottom 5. 

We just need a season like say Sheffield Utd are having...where everything clicks results wise throughout the season, even when performance is below average. 

I just find it so frustrating that we build, find gems, improve them, then when they really shine, we have to sell them.

Creating the ' Perfect Storm' of keeping your best players, and having a settled squad playing to their best ability is what's needed. 

Wells and James next season will be  into their mid thirties. They are probably likely to decline. It's all very well finding experience to replace, and great we have youngsters coming through...however...with the blend of experience and new recruits, and youngsters coming through, they all need to click at the right time. 

There always seems to be a weakness, that stops us being a top 3 side. 

I can see in the near future the comments... ' we are missing a Matty James influence and experience '. Even if he gets replaced by another experienced player to combine with say Williams... They still need time to gell, fit in. 

Getting that magic season, of our best players kept together and not sold, youngsters with seasons under their belt, and experienced players not passed it, has to be the goal. 

The potential is there...it's just the system that stops us progressing quicker imo. 

Fingers crossed that potential comes to fruition.

Meantime...it's enjoyable watching City play, and the club throughout flourish. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

What is also overlooked unlike every other side in the Championship we are doing it with our own players and not a loan in sight, you only have to watch the highlights program and see players on loan scoring for several teams, or try to work out how many players each of our rivals have on loan, some with 5 or 6 players each.

Maybe could argue perhaps we need 1 or 2, but they don't always work out and you only need another Ryan Cent (sorry for the misspell, should have been a U) to upset all the good work and team building.

Well done Nige and the team, its fantastic to watch our own lads

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

I agree with this - I think we can all see what NP is building in terms of culture and types/styles of players - that was always going to take more time than the fans would like because he had one hand tied behind his back financially. Also all the unseen stuff behind the scenes - huge credit for that.

However, he's not been without fault when it comes to some tactical decisions and team selections and for example a few of us called for 4-3-3 back in October and could see the performances were equally relegation form results, and we were in dire form for a few months tail end of 2022 with few signs of improvements, with NP seemingly unable to stop the rot and make the change needed. I think the concern was justified, even if calls for sacking were too loud too soon.

And the fact we've seen such a big upturn (coinciding with the formation switch) shows big Nige could have a few things to learn still and that yes, I agree with you in that for various reasons this squad was underachieving under him earlier in the season IMO. 

The results were poor towards the end of 2022 but the performances? Not always IMO. I enjoyed the displays v Sheffield United and Watford, parts of the Stoke game although the whole thing felt a bit flat and 1st half v West Brom at home we were fine.

Only real poor performances at home IMO were QPR 1st half, Millwall verbatim and 2nd half v West Brom got away from us.

Stoke at home had some good things but a terrible error on HT undid hard work.

Away from home, Birmingham and Reading were shockers with few redeeming features.

[steviestevieneville]

3 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I still think it took NP too long to get these performances from this set of players. Take into account it started before any new players got here. The form is great but it has probably come too late for a playoff push. Not that is was expected but everyone bar Burnley is truly beatable. 

However, I’ve come around now. The performances are borderline dominant for the most part. 2 months worth as well. We now can win sitting back and countering or even as the higher possession side. 

You really don’t take into account what’s gone on behind the scenes do you . Even in our change of shape recently He’s done everything for a reason . Let him get on with what he’s good at which is managing our club . 

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

You really don’t take into account what’s gone on behind the scenes do you . Even in our change of shape recently He’s done everything for a reason . Let him get on with what he’s good at which is managing our club . 

Yep, it was hardly an overnight thing that just clicked….just a “team” working to a plan, gradually evolving (some mini peaks and troughs in the process, because evolvement isn’t straight line), gradually turning those fine margins in our favour.  Changing player mindsets, moving on the ones without a ticket.  It takes time.  

[WECANDO]

15 hours ago, Robbored said:

It’s struck me at todays game just how much progress Nige has made since he took over having to rebuild  the cub  pretty much from scratch and all the while reducing the wage bill.

We see City sitting 13th in the Championship table just 9 points outside the pray offs with 13 games to go and putting in some decent performances along the way.

The squad is motivated and certainly have bought into Nige’s way, are showing 100% commitment all over the pitch leaving nothing out there on the final whistle. Things are finally looking good after several seasons of mediocre management both on and off the pitch 

I’m sure we’d all love a push for the top six - just what we need to keep us all enthusiastically checking other Championship results and league table.

When I listen to Nige pre and post match he genuinely impresses me with his candour and obvious deep knowledge of what it takes to build a successful club - he really is a proper manager who is applying his skills and knowledge of the industry to improve our club. I think we’re lucky to have him as our manager.

Today wasn’t a great game but City managed to come away with three points when not playing that well - a defiant good sign.

Tuesday eve we have a lucrative fixture against Man City at a sold out AG live on TV which obviously raises Bristol City's profile  nationally but to me the result is largely irrelevant with the league being the number 1 priority.

That said…….the FA cup is known for its upsets so you just never know…………

Think us fans should acknowledge the fab job Nige is doing by chanting his name when he comes out just before the game starts. Show our appreciation.

[steviestevieneville]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, it was hardly an overnight thing that just clicked….just a “team” working to a plan, gradually evolving (some mini peaks and troughs in the process, because evolvement isn’t straight line), gradually turning those fine margins in our favour.  Changing player mindsets, moving on the ones without a ticket.  It takes time.  

It’s a real constant with all the Pearson out brigade that they want instant results . I can remember a few of us , yourself included at the time of Pearson getting the job that we wouldn’t see consistent improvement for 18months -2 years . We were in a right mess on & off the pitch . Still loads to improve on but we’re now on firm foundations . 

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

For me the performances weren’t close. Rarely seemed to put complete performances together now they are routine. 

But performances in the autumn were better than they were when Pearson took over. Likewise performances now are better than they were in the autumn. That is almost a definition of continuous improvement. That's all I am "arguing" - that we have improved through Pearson's tenure, and that such improvement was evident before we went on a 12 match unbeaten run.

By the way I share your apprehension regarding next season. We will lose Scott, we will likely lose Kalas, Wells and James will be older, O'Leary is out of contract as well. That's the spine of the team either gone or under question. I personally doubt we will finish top 6 next season. I don't think Pearson will get us promoted. Right now if I had to predict next season then I think we'll be in that pack between 7th and 12th. Pearson won't renew his contract and we will go into 24/25 under new management.

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I thought NP improved the club more than he did the team until recently. They probably go hand in hand but there will always be a bit of what if for me. 

But there will always be a bit of "what if" won't there? Even if we finish 5th...what if we'd done better maybe we'd be 2nd. If we finish 2nd...what if we'd finished 1st. There's always an opportunity to say "we could have done a little better". 

The important thing is that over the past two years we have constantly done a little better.

Edited February 26, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[steviestevieneville]

2 minutes ago, WECANDO said:

Think us fans should acknowledge the fab job Nige is doing by chanting his name when he comes out just before the game starts. Show our appreciation.

I genuinely think he doesn’t care about personal accolades . I think he gets his enjoyment from us being excited bout watching his team . I remember when he first joined and was asked what style of football he likes to play. He said , premier league football is about power , pace & exciting football. We’re starting to see that now. 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

It’s a real constant with all the Pearson out brigade that they want instant results . I can remember a few of us , yourself included at the time of Pearson getting the job that we wouldn’t see consistent improvement for 18months -2 years . We were in a right mess on & off the pitch . Still loads to improve on but we’re now on firm foundations . 

Yep, I saw it taking the best part of a “full contract cycle” to get us to where we wanted to be, ie best part of 3 years, which is why Nige was given a three year contract.

People forget it wasn’t just the case of trading outs and ins, it was a shit sandwich of losing players and not being able to recruit in proportion.

Come this summer, I expect there to be at most, one player who Nige hasn’t fated, either by signing, getting rid  and / or offering a contract, and that’s Joe Williams, who has a year and a bit to go.

Nige has made sacrifices, some of it forced, in getting rid of players to effectively ensure that full contract cycle is as short as possible.  At the end of this summer, it’s his squad.  Now don’t confuse that with it’s the squad he’d have wanted 2 years ago, it’s still constrained by finances.  But it is one he’s built and developed, that’s moving forward…steadily (results won’t and haven’t always followed).

I’m critical of the footballing side of the Lansdown ownership at times, but their patience is one I’m grateful for.  Having said that, why let a bloke help you design a plan and not give him a fair crack of the whip to deliver it?  Unusual in the world of football, I’m glad we’re unusual.

[Alessandro]

49 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The results were poor towards the end of 2022 but the performances? Not always IMO. I enjoyed the displays v Sheffield United and Watford, parts of the Stoke game although the whole thing felt a bit flat and 1st half v West Brom at home we were fine.

Only real poor performances at home IMO were QPR 1st half, Millwall verbatim and 2nd half v West Brom got away from us.

Stoke at home had some good things but a terrible error on HT undid hard work.

Away from home, Birmingham and Reading were shockers with few redeeming features.

No you're right, fair comments. I think for me it wasn't so much that it was all poor performances, it was that general feeling that the team was struggling in key areas and that confidence was dropping, hence the increase in individual mistakes that were costing us games and any points we picked up on the whole felt very hard earned!

[mozo]

33 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

We will lose Scott, we will likely lose Kalas, Wells and James will be older, O'Leary is out of contract as well. That's the spine of the team either gone or under question. 

I think the answer is right there really... The money we get for Scott will fund CB, CM (x2?) and a powerful forward, in addition to the left back to replace JD.

 

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

I think the answer is right there really... The money we get for Scott will fund CB, CM (x2?) and a powerful forward, in addition to the left back to replace JD.

True. Still a big ask/assumption/hope that anyone can replace the spine of a team in a single transfer window. If we assume the LB is Currie and the CB is O'Brien then you can see we're not buying Championship ready players. We're still shopping in lower leagues and buying players to develop.

I don't see us transferring in a ready made top 6 set of players.

Obviously I'll be delighted to be proven wrong, but I'm not expecting a promotion push next season. 24/25 is my target year.

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

True. Still a big ask/assumption/hope that anyone can replace the spine of a team in a single transfer window. If we assume the LB is Currie and the CB is O'Brien then you can see we're not buying Championship ready players. We're still shopping in lower leagues and buying players to develop.

I don't see us transferring in a ready made top 6 set of players.

Obviously I'll be delighted to be proven wrong, but I'm not expecting a promotion push next season. 24/25 is my target year.

Oh I'm definitely not suggesting that spending a few mill in the summer will guarantee a big season.

But don't forget that James and Wells won't necessarily be diminished next season and the newbies would be coming in as succession planning as much as replacements. So it's more subtle than an overhaul. 

Replacing Scott is a tricky one. 

[MarcusX]

5 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I don't think we're arguing about everything. Yes our fortunes (assume you mean results) could have improved earlier - because the signs and numbers were there to show that we had improved performances. We just needed the last bit of fine tuning, a bit of fortune, a good wind. We've had those things in 2023, and results have followed this time.

I don't think it's fair to compare the starting XI now to two years ago. Two years ago Vyner, O'Leary and Pring were 23, raw, error-prone, far less experienced. Two years ago Scott was 17. That's 4 of the starting XI who were nowhere near their current level. As they have improved, so has our team, and so have performances.

The healthier organisation you talk of - that's another one of the signs I refer to as showing that improvement was happening and was coming.

I just don't think it should take a run of 12 unbeaten games to convince people of improvement. It was there long before the run of results.

Have to agree with this even as early as say Norwich away and Blackpool the performances were there we just didn’t get the run of the green and mistakes cost us 

[JoeAman08]

4 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

You really don’t take into account what’s gone on behind the scenes do you . Even in our change of shape recently He’s done everything for a reason . Let him get on with what he’s good at which is managing our club . 

I don’t think I am stopping him from that. I mean I can’t be more complimentary about off the pitch. Say it every time. Fact still remains he is getting results and performances from players that were here last season and the start of this one. The team was always better than the performances that were being offered up. There was no secret formula. Playing players where they are most comfortable in a formation they are comfortable. Our availability has been good this season so there isn’t really an excuse for me. Some of you have this really odd obsession with NP too. Right or wrong he’d have been gone in 90% of efl clubs and probably this one if our finances would have allowed it. Great he has finally sorted it out and I am enjoying it. Opinion about the 18 months before is still the same tho

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

The team was always better than the performances that were being offered up. There was no secret formula

This is the bit I really don’t get from you,  Sorry.  I don’t think you’re giving the “team” (Nige, Euell, Phlegm, Mountain, Renni, etc) any / much credit for the player development that’s gone on.  These are players that have been “worked on” and improved.

Just using one example…is Zak Vyner the same player as early this season, last season?  Nope.  He’s been coached technically and mentally to become the player he is now.

So the players might be the same, but their “capability” as individuals and as a cohesive unit has improved.  They are better players in a fair few cases than earlier this season, last season.

So the team wasn’t necessarily better than performances being offered up.  The players have been made better.

Listen to his interviews.  It’s not about just picking players in their preferred positions.  They weren’t able to play their preferred positions for whatever reasons.  Nige felt playing Tanner and Vyner alongside each other without the safety blanket of a third CB would not have been the right thing…at the time…because he was building their capability and confidence.  Once they’d reached the necessary levels he’d set for them, he then could make that change.  Same with Atkinson.  Him and Zak had to be developed to be able to lead each other as a pair.  It’s all subtle stuff, we heard the Rob / introvert comments, then we hear “Rob has come out of his shell” comments.

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Great he has finally sorted it out and I am enjoying it.

He hasn’t finally sorted it, it’s been a plan, executed with a few bumps in the road, amongst some good bits too.

imho

[redkev]

17 hours ago, WessexPest said:

Up north is stretching it - Nottingham.

Born Nottingham , but I’m sure Yorkshire is where he has resided most of his life 

[Rossi the Robin]

I’m just glad he seems to be enjoying it now 

Felt quite sorry for him when we kept throwing leads away with mistakes after reasonable performances - he must have been tearing his hair out 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

17 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I still think it took NP too long to get these performances from this set of players. Take into account it started before any new players got here. The form is great but it has probably come too late for a playoff push. Not that is was expected but everyone bar Burnley is truly beatable. 

However, I’ve come around now. The performances are borderline dominant for the most part. 2 months worth as well. We now can win sitting back and countering or even as the higher possession side. 

The performances by and large all season have been decent. There has only been a handful of games where we've deserved to lose. 

For whatever reason, up until the new year we just failed to get what we deserved from games.

[DaveInSA]

It's the first game i've been to since QPR at home.

The coaches in my opinion need to be given massive credit. The organisation when we don't have the ball is absolutely eons better. Its chalk and cheese. And you might say that Hull created very little, and that could be because they're pony. Or it could be because we made them look pony.

And I also wonder about the mentality of the group. They fought well, and looked like winners, even though our quality in the final third was a bit off.

One thing the lads I was with keep saying - can we please attack the near post on those balls across the face of the goal.

Bring on the Manchester...

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

The organisation when we don't have the ball is absolutely eons better

The most important thing for me is how quickly we move (the team) across the pitch to get into shape, as our opponents move it from one side to another.

Sometimes if the ball is coming down our left, it’s Mehmeti shifting onto their full-back and Scott pushing into their right sided DM.  Other times it’s Pring pushing on, Atkinson (now Kalas) moving more into a LB role, etc.

On our right, you don’t naturally want James pushing wide onto their LB / LW, but when he does, Williams comes across, Scott drops in, Mehmeti comes narrow.

It’s done quickly, but you can see lots of comms from Williams especially.