Zak Vyner player of the season so far

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Woofyourkipper said:

Fwiw

own goal,never going in without him touching it

Kdb goal not his fault 

but for me I thought he was our weed pest defender tonight

 

Not his best game, but I wouldn't compare him to a weed pest....

[Dr Balls]

What it showed tonight is that Kalas is an international centre back who happens to play in the Championship, as our most expensive ever transfer deal, while Zak is a Championship defender, who came through our academy and whose weaknesses, particularly in terms of distribution and ball control were exposed by one of the best teams on the planet. Fortunately he doesn’t often come up against such good opposition so it doesn’t matter so much.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, TBW said:

Vyner was an absolute liability with the ball at his feet tonight. Gave Man City two very good opportunities we were lucky they didn't take.

The first he went on a run into midfield for no reason and got dispossessed and the second played a pass straight through the middle to an opposition player. Had us on the backfoot both times.

That’s a huge overreaction too.

He played some lovely passes.  You have to take into account that world class players force you into doing things you don’t want to do - exhibit a - run into congestion (Webster used to to too, but people forgave him) or anticipate what you are going to do better than champ players - exhibit b - what looks like a simple pass gets intercepted.

He’s playing against Alvarez, a World Cup winner who’s movement was top class, and is gonna get supply too.

I thought he stood up to the test pretty well.

What about all the good passes he made?

What about the times he forced Alvarez (or whoever) away from danger, or into a poor / heavy touch.

[Merrick's Marvels]

Vyner was brave on the ball tonight and against some world class opponents too.

Yes gave the ball away on occasions but often because he didn't have great options.

In the circumstances  he and Kalas did pretty well. 

[BUTOR]

1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

What it showed tonight is that Kalas is an international centre back who happens to play in the Championship, as our most expensive ever transfer deal, while Zak is a Championship defender, who came through our academy and whose weaknesses, particularly in terms of distribution and ball control were exposed by one of the best teams on the planet. Fortunately he doesn’t often come up against such good opposition so it doesn’t matter so much.

That’s not to say he wouldn’t improve playing against this kind of opposition either. It’s a one off game and something he can learn from going forward. He is a much improved player who has only recently settled into himself here, but that’s not to say he can’t make further adaptions to his style of play going forward. Plus there are just things you can get away with in the Championship that you can’t against Manchester City and this is the first time he’s played against world class opposition to find that out.
 

There wasn’t a player for us out there that didn’t struggle with having less time to think at some point tonight. Vyner is nowhere near culpable for singled out criticism if that’s why this thread has been bumped 

[DaveInSA]

6 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Tanner did have Foden & silva to mark

This.

Tanner was dealt a shit hand. And I think did pretty well.

and Vyner. Defensively I was very impressed. Kept a couple of world class players very quiet.

you can’t blame him for the second goal. Seriously. 

[mozo]

Out of all the players you'd say Vyner looked the most nervous, or least assured. 

That happens though, so never mind.

 

 

[JoeAman08]

7 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Tanner did have Foden & silva to mark

Oh no doubt. Just thought in possession maybe he left the gap a bit big at times and didn’t give Vyner an option. Vyner compounded that a couple times by forcing it. Didn’t mean it to come off so harsh on Tanner. Everyone was up against someone who is 10-20x better paid to play the same game. So was always going to be tough. All in all we gave them a hell of an effort for 70 minutes imo. 3-0 looks a bit harsh on us in the end imo

7 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Tanner did have Foden & silva to mark

Oh no doubt. Just thought in possession maybe he left the gap a bit big at times and didn’t give Vyner an option. Vyner compounded that a couple times by forcing it. Didn’t mean it to come off so harsh on Tanner. Everyone was up against someone who is 10-20x better paid to play the same game. So was always going to be tough. All in all we gave them a hell of an effort for 70 minutes imo. 3-0 looks a bit harsh on us in the end imo

[BigAl&Toby]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That’s a huge overreaction too.

He played some lovely passes.  You have to take into account that world class players force you into doing things you don’t want to do - exhibit a - run into congestion (Webster used to to too, but people forgave him) or anticipate what you are going to do better than champ players - exhibit b - what looks like a simple pass gets intercepted.

He’s playing against Alvarez, a World Cup winner who’s movement was top class, and is gonna get supply too.

I thought he stood up to the test pretty well.

What about all the good passes he made?

What about the times he forced Alvarez (or whoever) away from danger, or into a poor / heavy touch.

Don’t come on here and talk sense! You bloody defenders always stick together

Not Zachary’s finest 90 minutes but as you and others have said he was up against world class opposition. And my Christ he’s had a bloody good season so far.

Onto Cardiff and 3 points on Saturday.

[Vidal]

Thought Williams and James really struggled to give an outlet in midfield, unsurprisingly.

[bcfc01]

8 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Tanner did have Foden & silva to mark

With no support whatsoever.

 

[TBW]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

What about all the good passes he made?

What about the times he forced Alvarez (or whoever) away from danger, or into a poor / heavy touch.

There weren't many. 

I mentioned when on the ball specifically.

[ciderwithtommy]

Vyner has proved one thing throughout his career, and that is he learns and improves consistently. Last night was probably as hard a game as he will ever have in terms of opponents, not just in possession where Man City are obvs world class, but out of possession where they are equally as adept. 
 

they set traps that Vyner and others fell in to, he will learn from that. It wasn’t him being “poor”, but more he was learning the hard way, something that he has shown he has the character to do. Want to get better at any sport? Play against better players, and learn. 

[TommyD68]

Zak didn’t have a bad game at all last night, nothing to be ashamed of. Was brave on the ball and the couple of times he did lose possession was down to lack of options. Thought Kalas was exceptional and did cover for him extremely well on the occasions where Zak did lose possession. 
 

This thread is about how well Zak has played this season, and I agree he is the stand out player for me. Says a lot about some fans that straight after the game they jump on here to criticise after he doesn’t produce a 10/10 performance against arguably the best team in the world! 

[Steve Watts]

52 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

With no support whatsoever.

 

Yeah, Sykes was found wanting, defensively, in that first half, giving George far too much to do.  I felt for him, however watching that second goal back he should never be letting Foden get a free run on that cross.  He takes a look just before it came in, so he knew he was lurking, but instead he moved into an area that was already being marshalled by Zak.

[Numero Uno]

8 minutes ago, TommyD68 said:

Zak didn’t have a bad game at all last night, nothing to be ashamed of. Was brave on the ball and the couple of times he did lose possession was down to lack of options. Thought Kalas was exceptional and did cover for him extremely well on the occasions where Zak did lose possession. 
 

This thread is about how well Zak has played this season, and I agree he is the stand out player for me. Says a lot about some fans that straight after the game they jump on here to criticise after he doesn’t produce a 10/10 performance against arguably the best team in the world! 

We do have our fair share of total shithouses supporting us. Zax hasn't given them anything to moan about this season but as soon as he is perceived to have a less assured game than normal they just can't help themselves "back to old ways" blah blah blah. 

[Spike]

Vyner has improved no end but if we had a foot squad I'd be starting Atkinson with Kalas, I still feel Vyner is prone to mistakes but the worst part is his positioning and he doesn't get the blame for it. There have been numerous times that Vyner comes towards the ball when the rest of the line is dropping which opens up space to exploit. This happened against Sunderland and our fans were blaming Tanner for not going to the ball when the situation came from Vyner charging out in midfield and leaving a huge gap which allowed Sunderland into a dangerous position in a one on one with Tanner which they scored from. 

I know we all want to see Vyner come out the hero after his improvements but for me he still has positional issues, in the back 3 they were more exposed because the spacing in a back three is crucial but in the back 4 Tanner and Atkinson/Kalas can conver those spaces better so it's not as obvious but it's still there. As much as I like Vyner as a person and as well as he has done in improving he's still a liability when he loses focus and allows himself to get pulled out of position. I hope during the summer we get a new CB who can lead the back line and strong positioning as I think that would help our defensive issues immensely. 

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

There wasn’t a player for us out there that didn’t struggle with having less time to think at some point tonight. Vyner is nowhere near culpable for singled out criticism if that’s why this thread has been bumped 

[cidered abroad]

9 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

He did make a few errors, but I felt for him at times. Some of the possession he lost was down to absolutely no outlet for him at all. The run into midfield immediately comes to mind. He only go so far because no-one peeled into space to receive a pass. That tonight goes down as his poorest display of the season is a testament to just how well he's done.

If he misplaced a few passes, he made up for it with his defensive performance. Maybe he was trying too hard to get balls forward to midfield and strikers.

As opposed to his other central defender, Kala's who I thought took the easy option a lot with passes back . Maybe not up to full match tempo and fine fitness tuning yet.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, TBW said:

There weren't many. 

I mentioned when on the ball specifically.

Plenty more than the two situations he’s getting disproportionate stick for.

[Super]

9 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

He did make a few errors, but I felt for him at times. Some of the possession he lost was down to absolutely no outlet for him at all. The run into midfield immediately comes to mind. He only go so far because no-one peeled into space to receive a pass. That tonight goes down as his poorest display of the season is a testament to just how well he's done.

I agree with this that's just not his game running into midfield. I thought last night was almost a game for Naismith he would have been good at getting some of our attacking play going. He was a big miss imo.

[2015]

9 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

There was a guy behind me (Dolman) who from minute one slated Vyner. I’ve got ST seats but those behind me are different people every game. This guy clearly fancied himself as an oracle of the game, and as he’d not been down this season decided Zak was shit. It was far from his best game but he didn’t deserve idiots like that, and that to me is the only downer of games like today - part time know nothing day trippers.

Noticed loads around me last night that I'd never seen before, all acting very reactionary towards the team. Day tripping ******

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Super said:

I agree with this that's just not his game running into midfield. I thought last night was almost a game for Naismith he would have been good at getting some of our attacking play going. He was a big miss imo.

Yep. You wonder where we'd have got with Naismith, a non-Cup tied Mehmeti and maybe Conway available.  

[2015]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Yep. You wonder where we'd have got with Naismith, a non-Cup tied Mehmeti and maybe Conway available.  

We missed Naismith massively last night. There were times we had the ball and an opportunity to break and we kept just giving the ball away cheaply, or our touches ran away from us. Naismith is the one player in midfield comfortable on the ball and is good at making the passes between the lines of midfield and defence.

Williams wasn't at it last night in my opinion, but James had an ok game - tried his best to break up the play against a very good midfield.

[Northern Red]

3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Yep. You wonder where we'd have got with Naismith, a non-Cup tied Mehmeti and maybe Conway available.  

As much as anything else, it would have given us more options on the bench to freshen things up.

Mehmeti in particular would have had a field day with the amount of space down the left side in the first half.

[maxjak]

10 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

Amazing it's not been given as an OG.

Yep........it's weird?   I believe if it was a league game, it would have been given as an own goal, but the FA Cup,  seems for some reason to have a different criteria? 

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, ciderwithtommy said:

Vyner has proved one thing throughout his career, and that is he learns and improves consistently. Last night was probably as hard a game as he will ever have in terms of opponents, not just in possession where Man City are obvs world class, but out of possession where they are equally as adept. 
 

they set traps that Vyner and others fell in to, he will learn from that. It wasn’t him being “poor”, but more he was learning the hard way, something that he has shown he has the character to do. Want to get better at any sport? Play against better players, and learn. 

Zak learnt some very valuable lessons out there tonite, which can only lead to him being even better.  He was up against some of the finest footballers on the planet, and in the main, more than held his own.  I just hope that he sees it as a great education, which will allow him to further his career, and not pay any attention to kneejerk critics, who have no idea what their on about.  Much better, highly paid defenders have been tied in knots by De Bruyne and Co..........so well done Zak, you should be proud of yourself.   But make sure you study the video of the game, as it will a great lesson?  Ha!!

[1960maaan]

I felt for him at times last night. Our movement and ability to give an option to the man in possession isn't always great. When he then breaks the line looks up and there's nothing on it makes it really difficult, he's left with a lump forward. He complained a couple of times last night , notably after he was caught in possession after a good little run.  Unlucky with the goal, but you can't leave that ball . A really learning moment , playing against possibly the best pressing side around, that also have brilliant movement and work ethic, it was tough. 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

31 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Zak learnt some very valuable lessons out there tonite, which can only lead to him being even better.  He was up against some of the finest footballers on the planet, and in the main, more than held his own.  I just hope that he sees it as a great education, which will allow him to further his career, and not pay any attention to kneejerk critics, who have no idea what their on about.  Much better, highly paid defenders have been tied in knots by De Bruyne and Co..........so well done Zak, you should be proud of yourself.   But make sure you study the video of the game, as it will a great lesson?  Ha!!

 

9 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I felt for him at times last night. Our movement and ability to give an option to the man in possession isn't always great. When he then breaks the line looks up and there's nothing on it makes it really difficult, he's left with a lump forward. He complained a couple of times last night , notably after he was caught in possession after a good little run.  Unlucky with the goal, but you can't leave that ball . A really learning moment , playing against possibly the best pressing side around, that also have brilliant movement and work ethic, it was tough. 

Some great posts on this thread, highlighting some of the nonsense spouted further up (by some). His ‘mistakes’ were usually due to being massively isolated, either in or out of possession. That’s not a criticism of his team mates either, it’s a reflection of playing against some of the best players in the world, who are organised into one of the best teams in the world.  Their organisation, skill levels and football intelligence to press effectively, close down passing options, create space for their team mates etc etc, is phenomenal and light years ahead of anyone we play against week in, week out. An ‘easy pass’ against Man City is entirely different to an ‘easy pass’ against QPR etc - they know what you’re going to do, before you do it. To say to Zak or any of the others “yep, it’s Man City, so please can you improve to their level overnight” is laughable. Lots of learning (and hopefully enjoyment) for the players and coaches, nothing whatsoever to criticise.