Odd criticism on the Blue Moon forum

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Selred said:

We've only recently started getting above 20k.

You said they only started getting big crowds since oil money, which isn't true. They've had great attendances for decades.

I don't know how old you are, but now isn't the only time Bristol City have had crowds of more than 20K.

They are getting 50K plus now which is vastly more than they did pre-oil money and taxpayer-funded stadium. 

Not sure why this is an argument?

[Open End Numb Legs]

There were some nice words from Pep and the players in TV interviews post match but if the supporters think attendance gives them credibility they might want to read the news more often:-

'The Premier League charged City with more than 100 alleged breaches of financial regulations on Monday and has referred the findings to an independent commission. The charges relate to a nine-year period from 2009.........'

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I don't know how old you are, but now isn't the only time Bristol City have had crowds of more than 20K.

They are getting 50K plus now which is vastly more than they did pre-oil money and taxpayer-funded stadium. 

Not sure why this is an argument?

Very quick Google search says total PL attendances, let's take 1994-95...average 24,271. Remember it had 22 teams also- a divisional average.

This season it is 38,053. Question is also what spare capacity- Etihad away capacity and attendance vs Maine Road- of course they've added fans post 2008 but feels a bit more nuanced to me, both in the context of a new ground and beyween average attendances more widely then and now.

See also, the spike when they left Maine Road.

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/manc.htm

Edited March 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Selred]

9 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I don't know how old you are, but now isn't the only time Bristol City have had crowds of more than 20K.

They are getting 50K plus now which is vastly more than they did pre-oil money and taxpayer-funded stadium. 

Not sure why this is an argument?

That literally was 30 plus years ago Robbo!

They are getting 50k plus now as they have a bigger stadium…

Also pre oil money, they had 42k fans average. Is 8k vastly more? 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Selred

[lenred]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Actually think their fans are a sound bunch, still have a massive core fanbase from back in their League 1 days in the late 90s. 

Can't help but feel sorry for them for the sheer misery of having Man Utd as your neighbours during the 90s and 00s. 

Completely agree.  Couple of mates are Man City fans (from Manchester - man and boy fans - not glory hunters) and I’ve been away with them a few times.   Always a great craic and a very sound bunch on the whole like you say.   Met up with them after the game last night for a few beers and they had nothing but good things to say about our players, the ground and the atmosphere.  

Edited March 1, 2023 by lenred

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Very quick Google search says total PL attendances, let's take 1994-95...average 24,271. Remember it had 22 teams also- a divisional average.

This season it is 38,053. Question is top what spare capacity- Etihad away capacity and attendance vs Maine Road- of course they've added fans post 2008 but feels a bit more nuanced to me, both in the context of a new ground and beyween average attendances more widely then and now.

 

*sigh* this is all in response to Man City fans claiming we never get 20,000. 

There's no nuance there. They are wrong and typically prem fan Big Bollocks attitude. Man City are a very well supported club, but since they've become Abu Dhabi FC they've had more fans than at any time in their history. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Red-Robbo

[TonyTonyTony]

I know loads of Man U and City fans through work. Man City fans are mire genuine, and from Manchester but they know they will never be as big a club as Man U. They don't have the history. Even if they won the champions league twice in a row Man U would still be "bigger" than them, and that annoys them greatly.

As for our pitch - it really isn't in good shape. Patchy as ****

[Steve Watts]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Aye, but they've "found" 24K ardent supporters since then. Maine Rd wasn't selling out when they were third tier.

I accept their claim that they have the majority support in Manchester proper, but I can recall when they were averaging low 20s in the early days of the Prem. Roughly the same amount as our support last night which apparently is "******* shit". How we could've got more in isn't clear. House them on the roofs I suppose?

I realise this makes me sound like a real apologist for them, but early days of the Prem the average attendances full stop were so much lower (stats below).  Several reasons for this of course.  We were coming out of Thatcherist rule, unemployment levels high, mortgage interest rates high, and also the forced move to all seater stadium chopped loads off capacity and forced stands to eventually be replaced, which is why it's seen figures increase year on year.

Having said that, they picked up more than 52,000 extra fans last season after the previous one saw them with a pitiful average of 526.  Disgraceful! 

1993    21,125
1994    23,040
1995    24,271
1996    27,550
1997    28,434
1998    29,190
1999    30,581
2000    30,757
2001    32,906
2002    34,470
 

[RedM]

2 hours ago, View from the Dolman said:

 

I understood that for league games there is very strict guidelines that have to adhered to regarding warming up pre-match, where subs warm up and also warm down afterwards. Unfortunately for unknown reasons these 'guidelines' aren't respected for internationals on the whole.

And yes the Desso is at end of its life and has to be completely renewed, weeks of work if people can remember when it was done a few years ago.

 

[RedM]

7 hours ago, Spike said:

Got to agree with the replies, last week it was constant how often players were slipping and last night it happened a few times too. Having so many games played its really taking its toll on the pitch and when you consider how a slight slip during a nothing tackle has put Atkinson out for so long it's likely to happen on a pitch that isn't in good condition. 

The pitch really does need a rest and playing rugby on it is only going to make it worse. 

Atkinson's injury nothing to do with the pitch at AG though.

[ralphindevon]

4 minutes ago, RedM said:

I understood that for league games there is very strict guidelines that have to adhered to regarding warming up pre-match, where subs warm up and also warm down afterwards. Unfortunately for unknown reasons these 'guidelines' aren't respected for internationals on the whole.

And yes the Desso is at end of its life and has to be completely renewed, weeks of work if people can remember when it was done a few years ago.

 

Do you know off hand how many concert’s there are this summer?

I know Arctic Monkeys is at the end of May but I’ve forgotten if there are any more. For the sake of getting the pitch done I hope not. 

[Talk Of The Town]

After the last Elton John concert. The ground staff had 4 weeks to renovate and reseed the pitch. It’s remarkable how quickly it was back and ready for the new season. 

[weepywall]

6 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

Do you know off hand how many concert’s there are this summer?

I know Arctic Monkeys is at the end of May but I’ve forgotten if there are any more. For the sake of getting the pitch done I hope not. 

Just the one.

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 minutes ago, weepywall said:

Just the one.

Good.

[ralphindevon]

4 minutes ago, weepywall said:

Just the one.

Good, it’ll be good to get the pitch back to it’s best asap.

If the 20 year old me could see me write this……… the pitch that we’re complaining about is probably akin to a mid September pitch back then. Going into March there would be very little grass around the middle of the pitch or the two boxes. 

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

I realise this makes me sound like a real apologist for them, but early days of the Prem the average attendances full stop were so much lower (stats below).  Several reasons for this of course.  We were coming out of Thatcherist rule, unemployment levels high, mortgage interest rates high, and also the forced move to all seater stadium chopped loads off capacity and forced stands to eventually be replaced, which is why it's seen figures increase year on year.

Having said that, they picked up more than 52,000 extra fans last season after the previous one saw them with a pitiful average of 526.  Disgraceful! 

1993    21,125
1994    23,040
1995    24,271
1996    27,550
1997    28,434
1998    29,190
1999    30,581
2000    30,757
2001    32,906
2002    34,470
 

 

Things I haven't said:

Man City have small attendances

Bristol City have large attendances

Bristol City attendances have been higher than Man City (at least in my lifetime)

All Man City fans are dicks. We mostly seem to have good encounters with them

Things I have said:

Man City's current attendances are at an all-time high

Some, though by no mean the majority of, Man City fans are glory hunters who've started following the club since the oil money came in

The Man City fans who thought online that we never get 20K plus unless we are playing them are talking through their arses

In conclusion:

I can't blame fans for being excited when their club is taken over by a sovereign fund with seemingly limitless pockets, they attract some of the most talented players in the world and need to expand their trophy room, such is their success. Be lovely if it happened to us, but I'd want it to seem more organic growth, less buy your way in and I'd prefer it if sportwashing medieval-minded Middle Eastern emirs weren't at the helm. 

 

 

[RedM]

4 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

Do you know off hand how many concert’s there are this summer?

I know Arctic Monkeys is at the end of May but I’ve forgotten if there are any more. For the sake of getting the pitch done I hope not. 

Yes as mentioned, they are the only one. I don't think it was intended to just have them, but for whatever reasons nothing else happened. But the plus is that there will be more time to take care of the pitch.

[Open End Numb Legs]

4 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

Do you know off hand how many concert’s there are this summer?

I know Arctic Monkeys is at the end of May but I’ve forgotten if there are any more. For the sake of getting the pitch done I hope not. 

So if everyone who attends the concert is given a small trowel and a small packet of grass seed we should have a new pitch by the end of June?

[Cityboy1954]

8 hours ago, lenred said:

Completely agree.  Couple of mates are Man City fans (from Manchester - man and boy fans - not glory hunters) and I’ve been away with them a few times.   Always a great craic and a very sound bunch on the whole like you say.   Met up with them after the game last night for a few beers and they had nothing but good things to say about our players, the ground and the atmosphere.  

Same here mate met 6 in the avon packett been mates from a holiday meet up in Spain theyve come to leeds wigan preston and Burnley with us me and bruv went with twenty of them to cologne watching city v monchengladbach in league one then 30 years ago got them tickets for up the mem before beating Gillingham in play offs great mates .

[Spike]

On 01/03/2023 at 16:32, RedM said:

Atkinson's injury nothing to do with the pitch at AG though.

No it isn't but my point was that it could easily lead to a similar injury when you have played losing their footing so frequently.

[Oh Louie louie]

The pitch was terrible after the Elton John gig, takes ages I think for the pitch to get over it, the groundsman was asked when Will the pitch be ok, I think it's going to be a long long time he said..

[downendcity]

35 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

The pitch was terrible after the Elton John gig, takes ages I think for the pitch to get over it, the groundsman was asked when Will the pitch be ok, I think it's going to be a long long time he said..

It took a summer's worth of work by the groundstaff to rectify the damage caused by Elton's concert.

After the first game on the restored pitch, a City players was asked how he had found playing 90 minutes on it,.      "well I'm still standing after all this time" he replied., 

[cidered abroad]

I know that there is a "life span" for a Desso pitch but not sure how many years it is.

I'm wondering if the problems recently are due to the very cold weather in the last four months. The lighting panels used in the darkest months of the year to assist grass growth may not be as successful when minus temperatures are weeks long.

I also understand that the undersoil heating is there to also help grass to continue growing by keeping ground temperatures above 5 degrees. Is it used to warm a frozen pitch or do they cover it with a "blanket".

If the pitch now needs to be "renewed" I guess that is because the polypropylene strands in the pitch have lived their life span. They are there for grass roots to grow into so that if the grass leaves get kicked off, the grass root will continue to grow and replace them even in winter. If the strands are damaged there is nothing for the grass roots to cling to. That I suspect is the problem.

 

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I know that there is a "life span" for a Desso pitch but not sure how many years it is.

 

 

 

I read somewhere that it was 15 years, but having rugby played on it must considerably shorten that.  I reckon you get more wear & tear in one egg-chasing session than in 4 or 5 football matches. 

[Baba Yaga]

On 01/03/2023 at 14:31, Red-Robbo said:

 

*sigh* this is all in response to Man City fans claiming we never get 20,000. 

There's no nuance there. They are wrong and typically prem fan Big Bollocks attitude. Man City are a very well supported club, but since they've become Abu Dhabi FC they've had more fans than at any time in their history. 

To be fair to them Man City held the english record home attendance for 82 years which was over 84,000 for a game in 1934. If we are looking to be nuanced then the last part of your comment doesn't ring true either.

[ManCunian56]

On 01/03/2023 at 09:34, Red-Robbo said:

 

Ironic for a team whose fanbase contains quite a number if non-Mancunians -and indeed a number sat watching them on telly in Beijing. 

I think they've also forgotten how low their crowds were sometimes, before an influx of filthy oil money from a despotic state propelled them to where they are now.

Still, northerners are not exactly famed for being humble...

In the third tier of English football Manchester City sold out Maine Road, <>30K I hardly think that those are low crowds 
"filthy oil money" Why is oil money filthy? Clearly a racist term 
"despotic state" Literally yes it is a despot state run by a ruler with absolute power but there is a system of government in the UAE with an executive committee 
Manchester City's fanbase at core is very much Mancunian but, a decade of success has attracted fans from around the globe, also influenced by the number of international players, this season Haaland has attracted even more. The PL is an international league and is watched around the world it's only natural that clubs have non-local fans They are all Manchester City fans regardless and just as dedicated as local fans 

[2015]

1 minute ago, Baba Yaga said:

To be fair to them Man City held the english record home attendance for 82 years which was over 84,000 for a game in 1934. If we are looking to be nuanced then the last part of your comment doesn't ring true either.

Too many people cannot separate the hierarchy of the club from its fans. The fans of a club will ALWAYS be the heart and soul of it, that's why I do not judge Man City based on who owns them. Their fans are a good bunch and majority have been there for years supporting them. The fans never asked for the club to be run by 'Abu Dhabi FC' but are not going to turn down success are they yet some on here sit here like we are morally superior, we are not. Every single club would be extremely happy to have what Man City have had in the last 15 years.

[MarcusX]

On 01/03/2023 at 12:43, Red-Robbo said:

 

Aye, but they've "found" 24K ardent supporters since then. Maine Rd wasn't selling out when they were third tier.

I accept their claim that they have the majority support in Manchester proper, but I can recall when they were averaging low 20s in the early days of the Prem. Roughly the same amount as our support last night which apparently is "******* shit". How we could've got more in isn't clear. House them on the roofs I suppose?

This is it, we sold out. It didn't even make general sale. I know loads of people who didn't / couldn't get a ticket. We'd have sold far more if we'd had the space

[Alex#40]

3 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I know that there is a "life span" for a Desso pitch but not sure how many years it is.

I'm wondering if the problems recently are due to the very cold weather in the last four months. The lighting panels used in the darkest months of the year to assist grass growth may not be as successful when minus temperatures are weeks long.

I also understand that the undersoil heating is there to also help grass to continue growing by keeping ground temperatures above 5 degrees. Is it used to warm a frozen pitch or do they cover it with a "blanket".

If the pitch now needs to be "renewed" I guess that is because the polypropylene strands in the pitch have lived their life span. They are there for grass roots to grow into so that if the grass leaves get kicked off, the grass root will continue to grow and replace them even in winter. If the strands are damaged there is nothing for the grass roots to cling to. That I suspect is the problem.

 

My son was mascot against Man City and I was talking to some of the staff while he was doing various things. This summer is 5 years since the plastic was renewed as the basis for the pitch and that is the end of its life so this year is a total tear out of everything (not just the turf) and the whole plastic web under the pitch will be laid as new from the very bottom up. Should make a big difference next season I was told.

[Baba Yaga]

2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Too many people cannot separate the hierarchy of the club from its fans. The fans of a club will ALWAYS be the heart and soul of it, that's why I do not judge Man City based on who owns them. Their fans are a good bunch and majority have been there for years supporting them. The fans never asked for the club to be run by 'Abu Dhabi FC' but are not going to turn down success are they yet some on here sit here like we are morally superior, we are not. Every single club would be extremely happy to have what Man City have had in the last 15 years.

I went to one of their home games earlier in the season and the atmosphere wasn't good (was also funny to me listening to them complaining about being rubbish at certain moments even though they ended up winning comfortably). Like most clubs I think they are much better away from home apart from maybe a few games a season, I was impressed with the noise their away fans made the other night, at least being 'Abu Dhabi FC' hasn't spoiled them in that way. Agree with you about not acting morally superior about something you can't help, I have always thought the perspective of ffp cheats on this forum would be much different if we didn't have the benefit of SL's money for so long, incredibly easy in our position to get righteous but it would change quickly in a different situation I think.