Difference between The Robins and others

[Mihai]

Good evening folks,

As far as you know, I am a fan from Romania. Most of you know about me, I know a lot of things about our team but I was curious about these questions for some time. Let's put it this way, WE as a football club, developed in the last 20 years because we between 1981 and 2006 most of the time we were in the Third League (League One) or even worse. There is some improvment let's say, not by a lot but we are let's say estabilished in this league at this moment.

Today we play Luton Town, a team that is let's say bigger than us in the past 40 years. They had FA Cup Final, they were in Premier League, etc. We had Hull City playing a lot in Premier League, we have this Bournemouth, Brentford in Premier League, even worse, teams like Swansea being in League Two while we were in Championship, managed to go to Premier League. Leicester, Southampton, Norwich had spells in League One and they rebuild good teams.

My question is, what is happening ? I can look at Leicester, Norwich, Southampton being much richer than us. Buuuuut, how in the hell can Luton Town, Barsnley ending in top 6 while we can barely make a stupid Top half. I know Barnsley is bad now but two seasons ago they played in playoffs. Luton Town lost important players to us but they still above, this year will be the second year in a Play-Off position and they may be in the PL next seson. I saw the numbers on transfermarkt, they are considered a smaller team than us in present, even at the start of the last season, nobody gave them chances.  

How a team like Luton can estabilish as a top 6 team so easily ? No big transfers, no new stadium, no rich owners and stuff like that. Why do we waste so much time ? I mean when the season starts you don't even consider Luton to end top 15 but they are so easily in top 6 and playing a much better football than us, with less money.

Are we out of luck ? Are we cursed ? Or is only this stupid management that needs to change at some point ? I mean.. I want to visit Bristol for some PL football this decade not in 20 years....

[cidercity1987]

You support the biggest underachievers in European football

Your choice 

[Bourne End Red]

The others you mention have just been run better and the money they have spent a lot more efficiently than we have.
We our turning things round, we will get there have patience, we are in good hands.

[BCFCGav]

We’re also chronically unlucky - which doesn’t help. If you told me a team was going to go 469 days without a penalty, I’d have had a good idea who it’d be.

[ralphindevon]

I’m gonna go with cursed!

[Mihai]

This season is that kind of season that doesn't give you a bad feeling but nothing good also. Ups and downs, we are playing good football 2 games and then horrible 5 games but at least we had a decent run in 2023. Though, nothing qualify us for a top 6 push next season ( the top 6 where this Luton finds themselves ) .

Maybe the curse breaks and we have a lucky promotion next season, haha.

[TBW]

Luton Town have never been in the Premier League...

[ExiledAjax]

Derby. Oldham. Bolton. Portsmouth. Ipswich. Huddersfield. Charlton. Birmingham. Cardiff. Reading. Burnley. Wigan.

Go and look at the teams below us, the EFL embargo list, and League One and see the roll call of those clubs who have in recent decades enjoyed fleeting success in the league and in cups.

[Mihai]

17 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Derby. Oldham. Bolton. Portsmouth. Ipswich. Huddersfield. Charlton. Birmingham. Cardiff. Reading. Burnley. Wigan.

Go and look at the teams below us, the EFL embargo list, and League One and see the roll call of those clubs who have in recent decades enjoyed fleeting success in the league and in cups.

Yea, you are right. But even so, they had some succes while we didnt.

And Luton indeed was not playing in this PL format, but well... they were relegating 1 or 2 seasons before the change if my memory still works haha. Anyhow, First Division football more recently  than us.

[Slacker]

Our history largely isn't great.I think this season is actually very promising in many ways.Disappointing tonight in what was always going to be a tough game,but results since Boxing Day, with many long and short term injuries, having to rely on many academy players,and with the greatest respect, very little strength on the bench at times,combined with no money to spend on incoming players,I am pretty pleased with our current league position. Hopefully next season,if we can keep fairly injury free, and get the occasional ref that gives us a few decisions, I think top six could well be achievable. 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Slacker said:

Our history largely isn't great.I think this season is actually very promising in many ways.Disappointing tonight in what was always going to be a tough game,but results since Boxing Day, with many long and short term injuries, having to rely on many academy players,and with the greatest respect, very little strength on the bench at times,combined with no money to spend on incoming players,I am pretty pleased with our current league position. Hopefully next season,if we can keep fairly injury free, and get the occasional ref that gives us a few decisions, I think top six could well be achievable. 

Unless the inevitable vultures swoop in and take our promising young talent, I mean it's not like it hasn't happened before hence the reason we don't get promotion we then have to start all over again, to me as a city supporter since (well a bloody long time) it's like groundhog day, just once I'm hoping we can hold on to enough of our talented young squad for long enough to get there then who knows what the limit for this club is, I would like to think at least on a par with the likes of Brighton or Brentford, why not?

Edited March 16, 2023 by pillred

[Slacker]

9 minutes ago, pillred said:

Unless the inevitable vultures swoop in and take our promising young talent, I mean it's not like it hasn't happened before hence the reason we don't get promotion we then have to start all over again, to me as a city supporter since (well a bloody long time) it's like groundhog day, just once I'm hoping we can hold on to enough of our talented young squad for long enough to get there then who knows what the limit for this club is, I would like to think at least on a par with the likes of Brighton or Brentford, why not?

Sadly it is difficult to see a time when we won't be a selling club.With the money in football now players and agents are always looking for the next big deal.Its a real shame that fans can't see their teams develope together over a period of years any more.Years ago the core of most teams seemed to stay pretty unchanged for several seasons.Fans seemed to have a much stronger bond with their club then.

[Oh Louie louie]

The arsenal Luton final in the Littlewoods milk cup whatever it was, was well worth watching for gus caeser going up against Mick Hartford! Not pretty,

[ExiledAjax]

7 hours ago, Mihai said:

Yea, you are right. But even so, they had some succes while we didnt.

And Luton indeed was not playing in this PL format, but well... they were relegating 1 or 2 seasons before the change if my memory still works haha. Anyhow, First Division football more recently  than us.

So would you be willing to trade 2 seasons in the Premier League for 10 in the lower Championship or League One?

Personally I'd not.

Of course in an ideal world we replicate a team like Brighton and go up and stay up for a while. In the end though even they will likely do what Burnley, Stoke, Bournemouth and likely Southampton will do and will come back down. 

[Mihai]

Of course I won't love 2 season in PL and then 15 in Championship. That Luton had a better run, around 10 years of First Division Football. But that doesn't matter, the thing is that like others said, we are a feeder club. We will sell Scoot for a good amount of money this summer and GOD knows what we will bring back. Hope not some Andy Kind and Matty James replicas ( nothing to do with them but they look like squad players, not players who carry a team )

 

[KegCity]

3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

So would you be willing to trade 2 seasons in the Premier League for 10 in the lower Championship or League One?

Personally I'd not.

Of course in an ideal world we replicate a team like Brighton and go up and stay up for a while. In the end though even they will likely do what Burnley, Stoke, Bournemouth and likely Southampton will do and will come back down. 

What's the alternative? 10 years of top half championship football? Two seasons in the Premier League would mean promotion in the first place and then survival in the Premier League along with all the money that comes with it.

[ExiledAjax]

13 minutes ago, KegCity said:

What's the alternative? 10 years of top half championship football? Two seasons in the Premier League would mean promotion in the first place and then survival in the Premier League along with all the money that comes with it.

One alternative is steady, sustainable and  stable progression in this division, hopefully then leading to ten not two years in the top. Ten years of money, ten years of top football, maybe even a dalliance in the Europa Conference.

[KegCity]

20 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

One alternative is steady, sustainable and  stable progression in this division, hopefully then leading to ten not two years in the top. Ten years of money, ten years of top football, maybe even a dalliance in the Europa Conference.

Of course that would be great and I hope we see that come to fruition. Unfortunately we've been unsuccessful at that for our entire history, we seem to be on the right path now though. 

I'd rather see us take some risks gunning for promotion than tread water being stable in the middle of the championship though. 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, KegCity said:

we seem to be on the right path now though. 

I'd rather see us take some risks gunning for promotion than tread water being stable in the middle of the championship though. 

These statements seem to contradict each other though.

I'd rather we try the stable progression option. We tried "giving it a go" as Luton's chairman described it. It damned near cost us an FFP breach and a points deduction and saw us finish no higher than 8th. It failed.

If Brighton and Brentford are the models then look at what they did.

Brighton did 6 seasons in the Champ, including a finish of 20th.

Brentford did 7 seasons before their promotion.

Both needed a change of manager in order to accelerate them up that final step.

For me we can discount the Cotterill and Johnson seasons in the Championship as those were the "giving it a go" seasons. We've reset since then. So realistically we are coming to the end of our second season of sensible management in this division. I personally would therefore expect, if we seek to emulate Brighton and Brentford, one more season of stabilisation (23/24), then a change of manager and a 3 season push to promotion. Promotion could then realistically be achieved in season 25/26 or 26/27.

That would mean promotion achieved after 6 seasons of stability and steady progression. We should at that point have a stable club in terms of culture, staff, and players, and that should give us a good chance of establishing ourselves up there.

You and @Mihai can disagree with the above roadmap, and I accept that, but we took the risks under LJ and Ashton. The risks failed.

Edited March 16, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

One alternative is steady, sustainable and  stable progression in this division, hopefully then leading to ten not two years in the top. Ten years of money, ten years of top football, maybe even a dalliance in the Europa Conference.

 

There's the dream. Progressive improvement, rather than boom then bust. 

[KegCity]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

These statements seem to contradict each other though.

I'd rather we try the stable progression option. We tried "giving it a go" as Luton's chairman described it. It damned near cost us an FFP breach and a points deduction and saw us finish no higher than 8th. It failed.

If Brighton and Brentford are the models then look at what they did.

Brighton did 6 seasons in the Champ, including a finish of 20th.

Brentford did 7 seasons before their promotion.

Both needed a change of manager in order to accelerate them up that final step.

For me we can discount the Cotterill and Johnson seasons in the Championship as those were the "giving it a go" seasons. We've reset since then. So realistically we are coming to the end of our second season of sensible management in this division. I personally would therefore expect, if we seek to emulate Brighton and Brentford, one more season of stabilisation (23/24), then a change of manager and a 3 season push to promotion.

That would mean promotion achieved after 6 seasons of stability and steady progression. We should at that point have a stable club in terms of culture, staff, and players, and that should give us a good chance of establishing ourselves up there.

You and @Mihai can disagree with the above roadmap, and I accept that, but we took the risks under LJ and Ashton. The risks failed.

Not really, I'm quite happy with how things are progressing. I equally have no issue with the risks taken by LJ and MA, they just didn't pay off. Ashton's incompetence doesn't put me off taking risks personally, equally I wouldn't want us to be completely reckless. You can't go for broke but as soon as Premier League money comes in the club can be transformed providing the ownership aren't inept.

My frustrations are from the past rather than now, my only concern is we seem to be very reliant on the academy continuing to provide first team quality talent. Obviously we've been hamstrung by financial issues that we're now going to have left behind come the summer so it'll be interesting to see how we approach recruitment moving forward. 

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, KegCity said:

Not really, I'm quite happy with how things are progressing. I equally have no issue with the risks taken by LJ and MA, they just didn't pay off. Ashton's incompetence doesn't put me off taking risks personally, equally I wouldn't want us to be completely reckless. You can't go for broke but as soon as Premier League money comes in the club can be transformed providing the ownership aren't inept.

My frustrations are from the past rather than now, my only concern is we seem to be very reliant on the academy continuing to provide first team quality talent. Obviously we've been hamstrung by financial issues that we're now going to have left behind come the summer so it'll be interesting to see how we approach recruitment moving forward. 

The reason we are now reliant on the academy is because the risks taken under LJ/MA failed.

How can you say you have no issues with those risks when you're concerned about something that is derived directly from their failure?

Why would you want to take more risks like that when you're currently concerned about the ultimate outcome of the last load of risks taken?