Everton FFP- yes

[Swede]

As much as it seems justified, for me it just goes to show how football finances are absolutely ruining the game.

If Man City, as an example, are found to be be in breach then presumably they are stripped of their titles/Champions League win? Does this mean that Arsenal or whoever are beaten finalists or runners up are retrospective champions & what a hollow feeling that would be for all concerned. It would be a complete and utter shambles.

[Slack Bladder]

If you are to get a 10 point deduction, then this is probably the best season for it to happen

With the 3 teams around them, they could've been given a 20 point deduction and still have a great chance of staying up.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'll have to go back and re-read everything again later. On that particular issue though, it seemed to be Everton argued for it and PL against.

There was multiple issues, the claim that was in some media back in June that it was just a minor tax issue seems to have been completely incorrect or false.

8.41 onwards

[Hxj]

10 points for a £19.5 million breach on a £105 million limits seems fair enough to me.

The other published decision is interesting.  Leeds, Forest, Southampton, Leicester and Burnley can in principle be awarded compensation by the Disciplinary Commission.

[ExiledAjax]

On current form that projects them to finish on 30 points. Perfectly capable of coming down to the banter division.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

8.41 onwards

Thanks Dave.

I suppose my simplistic argument that this stage is that if a League say exclude Covid impairment and or hypothetical player trading costs from the P&S calculations does it tip a club over?

Thinking of one or two clubs in particular. We are fine either way.

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks Dave.

I suppose my simplistic argument that this stage is that if a League say exclude Covid impairment and or hypothetical player trading costs from the P&S calculations does it tip a club over?

Thinking of one or two clubs in particular. We are fine either way.

I guess in Everton’s case they didn’t feel the reasons / amounts were justified.

Whereas EFL were happy with their own clubs (Stoke, etc)?

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I guess in Everton’s case they didn’t feel the reasons / amounts were justified.

Whereas EFL were happy with their own clubs (Stoke, etc)?

Trying to claim a covid loss on a player they were not willing to sell anyways is a bit scummy. 

[Lrrr]

The reaction on SSN is a joke, basically trying everything they can to lean on saying Everton shouldn’t really have been punished

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

As much as it seems justified, for me it just goes to show how football finances are absolutely ruining the game.

If Man City, as an example, are found to be be in breach then presumably they are stripped of their titles/Champions League win? Does this mean that Arsenal or whoever are beaten finalists or runners up are retrospective champions & what a hollow feeling that would be for all concerned. It would be a complete and utter shambles.

A bit like FFP VAR!

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I guess in Everton’s case they didn’t feel the reasons / amounts were justified.

Whereas EFL were happy with their own clubs (Stoke, etc)?

Stoke are the ones for me that look egregious. £60m of losses in 3 years, maybe Nottingham Forest maybe not. Suppose EFL or the other body can always review.

Irrespective of the EFL though, this case these Written Reasons make the report in June that it was a tax issue look baffling.

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

The reaction on SSN is a joke, basically trying everything they can to lean on saying Everton shouldn’t really have been punished

Yep, agreed.

Peter Reid and Michael Ball expressed various views and professed to be stunned a few weeks back. Carragher seems to have moaned as well.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

[pillred]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This could get very messy, I mean how many clubs might feel they have a case against Everton, a can of worms has well and truly been opened.

[Lrrr]

4 minutes ago, pillred said:

This could get very messy, I mean how many clubs might feel they have a case against Everton, a can of worms has well and truly been opened.

I would guess each of those relegated in the 3 year period 

[W-S-M Seagull]

35 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

The reaction on SSN is a joke, basically trying everything they can to lean on saying Everton shouldn’t really have been punished

I think the punishment is quite lenient considering they enjoyed an advantage for 4 seasons.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Rob k said:

If your Everton you just shut your mouth and get on with that - very lenient considering.

They will appeal of course, they have already expressed that they're stunned and how unfair it all is etc. Some of that could be performative, siege mentality etc.

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/3788440/club-statement

I certainly have no sympathy.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

31 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

I would guess each of those relegated in the 3 year period 

The clubs can try but they won't get anywhere. Everton are responsible for the breach of FFP but they're not responsible for the inadequate system that failed to deduct points and relegate them in the years past. 

[wayne allisons tongues]

Isn’t the finding till the end of the 2021-22 season. Surely Leicester can’t sue for they went down following season. Wouldn’t club who finished 18th only have a case for 2 below would still be relegated, Burnley, Fulham, Bournemouth 18th 3 seasons impacted.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Isn’t the finding till the end of the 2021-22 season. Surely Leicester can’t sue for they went down following season. Wouldn’t club who finished 18th only have a case for 2 below would still be relegated, Burnley, Fulham, Bournemouth 18th 3 seasons impacted.

Burnley if that is the one.

Burnley verbatim and Leeds for Prize Money gap between 16th and 17th.

[Hxj]

41 minutes ago, pillred said:

This could get very messy

It won't.

It has already been determined that the PL Disciplinary Commission can award compensation to clubs in respect of Everton's breach.

There will be one hearing (with lots of parties) and a decision will be made.  

The PL rules prohibit PL clubs suing each other in court over such matters.

[Hxj]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some of that could be performative, siege mentality etc.

This is the only interesting part of the statement - take care we are watching you!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Rather typically some if their voices say how 'unfair' it all is.

Parry is a fan but journalist.

[1960maaan]

Sorry for the source. The Sun in their usual excitable way, saying there is a chance Man City and Chelsea could be relegated . Which would be funny, specially if we were able to take advantage of those spots.

CHELSEA and Manchester City face the threat of RELEGATION, according to a former financial advisor to the Etihad club.

Everton were slapped with a shock ten-point deduction for a single breach of the Premier League's profit and sustainability Financial Fair Play rules.

The Toffees are the first team to be docked points for breaking FFP regulations in the Premier League.

And now it is understood both Chelsea and City could be in serious trouble.

City were hit with a mammoth 115 charges of FFP breaches by the Premier League last season.

The club continue to protest their innocence and are launching a major legal defence case to fight the Premier League.

Chelsea, meanwhile, are under the microscope for payments related to former owner Roman Abramovich.

And now Stefan Borson, a legal expert, believes both clubs could be booted out of the top flight.

Borson tweeted: "Without seeing the judgement/award -10 points for Everton feels harsh for a straightforward FFP breach to me.

"But reinforces that sanctions against City [if proven] and now Chelsea [if charged and admitted on the off-books payments] will be potentially relegation inducing.

"One thing is for sure, given the scale of this sporting sanction, Chelsea's calculus (in my opinion) that they could breach Premier League profit and sustainability and just take a fine as a cost of doing business, must be in urgent and immediate reconsideration.

"The January window may be interesting. Even in the best case, they can no longer rely on being able to convince an Independent Commission to accept their Covid and Sanctions allowances as exceptional adjustments (to the extent that was the plan)."

Manchester City were subject to a four-year investigation looking into their finances from 2009 to 2018 and were also charged for their lack of cooperation.

Premier League lawyers believe City refused to disclose the true source of their revenues by claiming they were from sponsors against the backdrop of the club’s Abu Dhabi owners.

City are also accused of paying a significant portion of ex-manager Roberto Mancini’s salary through an Abu Dhabi shell company and hiding that.

Chelsea, meanwhile, were fined £8.6million by Uefa for FFP breaches during the Abramovich reign and the Premier League are still examining the 2012 to 2019 period to see if they broke league rules.

But this week news emerged that further punishment could be in store for the Blues after leaked documents appeared to reveal the Russian billionaire broke rules.

It is suggested off-the-books funds from a third-party hidden money trail could land the West Londoners in hot water.

Although if found guilty, this would more likely to land Chelsea with a fine rather than a points deduction as the payments in question are not related to FFP regulations.

Chelsea have been on a bonkers spending spree that has seen more than £1billion splashed on new transfers in just three windows since Todd Boehly bought the club last year.

'SWEATING PROFUSELY'

SunSport's chief sports reporter Martin Lipton told talkSPORT Chelsea and Manchester City will be "sweating profusely" following Everton's points deduction.

He said: "There are 115 charges against City being denied and they claim they have a solid case.

"Chelsea have opened their books and admitted their breaches.

"With Chelsea, lots of the allegations come before FFP rules came in.

"The obvious expectation will be a points deduction but it will likely be relegation for City if they are found guilty.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24771750/chelsea-man-city-relegation-guilty-ffp-everton-points/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballfacebook171123&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0q_KkiKD-heGr0h7GouiolIj7xkkkto6C4KLimPW1OsopX-ezm8dq_2To#Echobox=1700228738

 

[The Batman]

2 hours ago, Swede said:

As much as it seems justified, for me it just goes to show how football finances are absolutely ruining the game.

If Man City, as an example, are found to be be in breach then presumably they are stripped of their titles/Champions League win? Does this mean that Arsenal or whoever are beaten finalists or runners up are retrospective champions & what a hollow feeling that would be for all concerned. It would be a complete and utter shambles.

Immediately I thought of the Juventus match fixing scandle from the mid 2000's. If you look at the league history, you'll see it says "not awarded". Probably because Milan finished 2nd and they were involved in it as well. 

However, the year after when Juventus were relegated despite finishing first, inter were awarded the title and the league will show juventus relegated on 91 points. That's a rarity. They didn't deduct points. The authorities just outright relegated them 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Hxj said:

This is the only interesting part of the statement - take care we are watching you!

Yes, that's the one bit I do agree with Everton on.

There are a few clubs I wonder about..

Precedent set, some form of loose Sanctioning guidelines albeit not as prescriptive as the EFL ones. Think it mentioned 6 points for being £5m or above over.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Sorry for the source. The Sun in their usual excitable way, saying there is a chance Man City and Chelsea could be relegated . Which would be funny, specially if we were able to take advantage of those spots.

CHELSEA and Manchester City face the threat of RELEGATION, according to a former financial advisor to the Etihad club.

Everton were slapped with a shock ten-point deduction for a single breach of the Premier League's profit and sustainability Financial Fair Play rules.

The Toffees are the first team to be docked points for breaking FFP regulations in the Premier League.

And now it is understood both Chelsea and City could be in serious trouble.

City were hit with a mammoth 115 charges of FFP breaches by the Premier League last season.

The club continue to protest their innocence and are launching a major legal defence case to fight the Premier League.

Chelsea, meanwhile, are under the microscope for payments related to former owner Roman Abramovich.

And now Stefan Borson, a legal expert, believes both clubs could be booted out of the top flight.

Borson tweeted: "Without seeing the judgement/award -10 points for Everton feels harsh for a straightforward FFP breach to me.

"But reinforces that sanctions against City [if proven] and now Chelsea [if charged and admitted on the off-books payments] will be potentially relegation inducing.

"One thing is for sure, given the scale of this sporting sanction, Chelsea's calculus (in my opinion) that they could breach Premier League profit and sustainability and just take a fine as a cost of doing business, must be in urgent and immediate reconsideration.

"The January window may be interesting. Even in the best case, they can no longer rely on being able to convince an Independent Commission to accept their Covid and Sanctions allowances as exceptional adjustments (to the extent that was the plan)."

Manchester City were subject to a four-year investigation looking into their finances from 2009 to 2018 and were also charged for their lack of cooperation.

Premier League lawyers believe City refused to disclose the true source of their revenues by claiming they were from sponsors against the backdrop of the club’s Abu Dhabi owners.

City are also accused of paying a significant portion of ex-manager Roberto Mancini’s salary through an Abu Dhabi shell company and hiding that.

Chelsea, meanwhile, were fined £8.6million by Uefa for FFP breaches during the Abramovich reign and the Premier League are still examining the 2012 to 2019 period to see if they broke league rules.

But this week news emerged that further punishment could be in store for the Blues after leaked documents appeared to reveal the Russian billionaire broke rules.

It is suggested off-the-books funds from a third-party hidden money trail could land the West Londoners in hot water.

Although if found guilty, this would more likely to land Chelsea with a fine rather than a points deduction as the payments in question are not related to FFP regulations.

Chelsea have been on a bonkers spending spree that has seen more than £1billion splashed on new transfers in just three windows since Todd Boehly bought the club last year.

'SWEATING PROFUSELY'

SunSport's chief sports reporter Martin Lipton told talkSPORT Chelsea and Manchester City will be "sweating profusely" following Everton's points deduction.

He said: "There are 115 charges against City being denied and they claim they have a solid case.

"Chelsea have opened their books and admitted their breaches.

"With Chelsea, lots of the allegations come before FFP rules came in.

"The obvious expectation will be a points deduction but it will likely be relegation for City if they are found guilty.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24771750/chelsea-man-city-relegation-guilty-ffp-everton-points/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballfacebook171123&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0q_KkiKD-heGr0h7GouiolIj7xkkkto6C4KLimPW1OsopX-ezm8dq_2To#Echobox=1700228738

 

Chelsea are interesting on two levels.

This stiff now is historic, the stuff about Eto'o etc but that needs to firstly be amankyzex then tested vs their headroom in all of the complaint to date years and if it tips over, retrospective charges announced.

They also could breach in the more conventional way. ie £115m pre tax in 2021-22 then the huge subsequent spending spree and missing Europe will have hit the finances badly surely, the hiding and firing of managers etc.

Abramovich may have written off £2bn but even if it appears in Profit/Loss Before Tax, it won't be reflected in P&S returns.

[W-S-M Seagull]

25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They will appeal of course, they have already expressed that they're stunned and how unfair it all is etc. Some of that could be performative, siege mentality etc.

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/3788440/club-statement

I certainly have no sympathy.

What's unfair is that they tried to claim that the transfer levy was an expenditure on youth development. Totally outrageous claim by them.

They were also warned by the premier league about their spending and still continued in the hope they could sell players on for a profit. It backfired on them. 

They need to stop crying about Man City. Accept fault and deal with the consequences.

[Maltshoveller]

The biggest joke is

allowing clubs to lose up to £105m in 3 years!!!!!

For me ether let clubs spend what ever they want

or

no loses what so ever

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What's unfair is that they tried to claim that the transfer levy was an expenditure on youth development. Totally outrageous claim by them.

They were also warned by the premier league about their spending and still continued in the hope they could sell players on for a profit. It backfired on them. 

They need to stop crying about Man City. Accept fault and deal with the consequences.

Yeah. They did take it easy in summer 2021 tbh under Benitez but this went by January!

Sacked Benitez, hired Lampard- sold Digne yes but in came Mykolenko, Patterson plus loans for Van Der Beek, Alli, El Ghazi 

Imagine if that was a Championship club! They then only sold Richarlison at end if June after retaining his talent for the rest of the season.

They really should have been docked last year.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous