Alex Scott - £25m to Bournemouth- Confirmed

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, KegCity said:

That team genuinely struggles to make the play-offs. No balance, no tactics, just vibes.

Unsure about that, although would need a better tactical layout than the poster put for sure.

It lacks width but a cohesive unit could certainly be made out of it.

A back 3 of Ayling, Webster, Kelly though right wing back could pose a problem.

2 minutes ago, KegCity said:

I'm a strong believer that at some point we do have to take a risk and retain big players when we're on the cusp of promotion. Brentford did it with Toney, Villa did it with Grealish. It is possible and no amount of calling ourselves a small club will change my mind.

BUT a deep lying centre mid who's going to leave for £25 million and fund our next promotion push (which may or may not be successful) is not the hill to die on. This transfer will, if invested correctly, fund a squad capable of being a genuine promotion candidate in the near future. Keeping Scott won't help us achieve that.

We need to be proactive with players such as Tommy Conway and Cam Pring and tie them down to long term deals so that we aren't forced to sell in a year or two's time, otherwise we'll be stuck in this loop of selling players to tread water in mid table. 

Vyner is also out of contract in a year, we need to seek to extend him if possible.

[KegCity]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Vyner is also out of contract in a year, we need to seek to extend him if possible.

It would be nice, but I could live without Vyner being here. He's one that we need to extend in order to get a transfer fee for when he moves.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW very few fees of this amount will be up-front.  It’ll be instalments, but we will charge them for it, in effect like interest.

So if fee I’d £25m, we might actually charge them £4 if they want to pay it over 4 years, £5m now, £5m next year, etc, so it’s £29m in total.

Fictitious numbers!!!

I hear what you say Dave but is my arithmetic wrong or isn't 5M x 4 plus £4M interest equal to £24M not £29M. Anyhow I'm not interested in £5m now but want considerably more up front. If they're not prepared to pay they can walk away. 

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

Vyner is also out of contract in a year, we need to seek to extend him if possible.

Not sure of need there. He’s already 6’2” so height wise should compete against most strikers. Any more and he could become unbalanced.

[Bristol Oil Services]

2 hours ago, Grey Fox said:

And what would our odds be if our squad included :

g/k Heaton

Back four Ayling, Webster, Kelly , Bryan

Midfield Brownhill, Scott , Naismith, Williams 

Forwards Semenyo , Reid 

Or we can just continue to be mediocre, I know what I prefer 

 

"Give up all hope for a better past" the Buddhists advise us. And while yer at it/that, give up all hope of a better present/future/summer transfer window.

Just surrender mate, to the mediocrity. We are mediocre. We have largely always been mediocre, and we probably always will be so. We are Reading (minus the record breaking promotion to the PL).

If we ever escape the cloying clutches of mediocrity - like that brief spell in 17/18 - it is always and without fail not going to last. 

Don't be fooled, don't be seduced, taken in, when we win three in a row, or have another good spell, or a young player destined for the top: remind yourself, we are mediocre. We are Reading (minus Trevor Senior).

[Jerseybean]

In other related news ….. The Daily Mail report that West Ham have now made an approach to sign Adams from Leeds United. It’s stated that moves have been made for a couple of other midfielders in Denis Zakaria of Juventus and Southampton’s James Ward-Prowse.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

I rate Scott massively - however if people on this forum were to take off their rose tinted specs they would admit he still has so much to learn and improve on if he wants to go on and become a regular at a top hitting Prem club 

How the Scott saga is playing out is exactly how I expected it to. Clubs won’t bid for him straight away - I’d even go as far as to say he may be here the start of the season

I expect him to move on towards the end of the transfer window . The club will secretly want to move him on asap though as they may not be able to bring in his long term replacement until that happens 

What do you mean by rose tinted specs.  I don’t think anyone is suggesting he’s the finished article, and I suspect buying clubs know that too.  So why rose-tinted specs comment?

35 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I hear what you say Dave but is my arithmetic wrong or isn't 5M x 4 plus £4M interest equal to £24M not £29M. Anyhow I'm not interested in £5m now but want considerably more up front. If they're not prepared to pay they can walk away. 

No, £5m at start yr0, £5m yr1, £5m yr2, £5m yr3, £5m Yr 4 + £4m “credit”.

What is driving your need to want more up-front?  We aren’t gonna be spending it, and any fees we pay are likely to be instalments too.  FFP / P&S will take the £25m into our accounts immediately, regardless of instalments or not.  Steve ensures we have the necessary Cashflow.  I’m not saying we wouldn’t mind it all up-front, but it doesn’t make much difference.

[Grey Fox]

34 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

"Give up all hope for a better past" the Buddhists advise us. And while yer at it/that, give up all hope of a better present/future/summer transfer window.

Just surrender mate, to the mediocrity. We are mediocre. We have largely always been mediocre, and we probably always will be so. We are Reading (minus the record breaking promotion to the PL).

If we ever escape the cloying clutches of mediocrity - like that brief spell in 17/18 - it is always and without fail not going to last. 

Don't be fooled, don't be seduced, taken in, when we win three in a row, or have another good spell, or a young player destined for the top: remind yourself, we are mediocre. We are Reading (minus Trevor Senior).

Don’t worry Friend, I already have. 
Every bright young star will be sold at the first opportunity, the money will then be spent on a load of mediocrity , and in 57 years time we will still be in the second tier, with no doubt the occasional visit to the third in between. Mind you, our accounts will be in order, so that’s something.

How much do you think we will get for Conway next year, or should we sell him as a BOGOFF deal with Bell?

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Mind you, our accounts will be in order, so that’s something.

It’s that kind of statement that shows ignorance of both 1) the current financial accounts - the accounts are far from ok really - £200m of debt, 2) the current financial rules that govern the EFL (FFP P&S)…unless of course you have just decided to ignore them and 3) modern football in terms of player movement.

Do I like the rules?

Nope.

Would I like players to stay a bit longer?

Yes, but if someone waves 4-5x your wage at you, you move.

[Major Isewater]

3 hours ago, Grey Fox said:

The list I gave was purely to illustrate the quality of players that we have let go off in recent times. As to “ what planet “ , the one where as a Bristol City fan of 57 years standing, I have seen them win sweet fa other than the paint pot cup and where we are in the same division as when I saw that first game. The planet where I have seen Swindon , Blackpool , Wigan , Oldham and now Luton in the Premier League.

I’m guessing you always wanted to talk to Roger Moore, but never actually did.

 

I’d like to Roger Moore but at my age …

2 hours ago, Show Me The Money! said:

Here's to the next 60 pages

Rosé, what else? 

[Andy082005]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

What do you mean by rose tinted specs.  I don’t think anyone is suggesting he’s the finished article, and I suspect buying clubs know that too.  So why rose-tinted specs comment?

No, £5m at start yr0, £5m yr1, £5m yr2, £5m yr3, £5m Yr 4 + £4m “credit”.

What is driving your need to want more up-front?  We aren’t gonna be spending it, and any fees we pay are likely to be instalments too.  FFP / P&S will take the £25m into our accounts immediately, regardless of instalments or not.  Steve ensures we have the necessary Cashflow.  I’m not saying we wouldn’t mind it all up-front, but it doesn’t make much difference.

Not aimed at yourself Dave - but there are plenty on here who rave on as if Alex Scott is Premier League ready etc. I’ve seen comments describing him as our “greatest ever youngster” etc and you could be forgiven for thinking he is the only up and coming English talent the way some posters carry on

He is an incredible talent - with bags of potential - I’m simply saying some people on here make out like he is ready to waltz into a Premier League starting 11.  
 

Its a huge step up 
 

 

 

 

[INCRED]

2 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Not aimed at yourself Dave - but there are plenty on here who rave on as if Alex Scott is Premier League ready etc. I’ve seen comments describing him as our “greatest ever youngster” etc and you could be forgiven for thinking he is the only up and coming English talent the way some posters carry on

He is an incredible talent - with bags of potential - I’m simply saying some people on here make out like he is ready to waltz into a Premier League starting 11.  
 

Its a huge step up 
 

 

 

 

100% agree, look at the England U21s doing so well at the moment and most getting very little game time in the Premier league 

I would like to think AS wouldn’t just jump at the first opportunity and just bide his time. If he stays for at least another season I would like to think he sees a pathway to the Premier league with us rather another club 

[Grey Fox]

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s that kind of statement that shows ignorance of both 1) the current financial accounts - the accounts are far from ok really - £200m of debt, 2) the current financial rules that govern the EFL (FFP P&S)…unless of course you have just decided to ignore them and 3) modern football in terms of player movement.

Do I like the rules?

Nope.

Would I like players to stay a bit longer?

Yes, but if someone waves 4-5x your wage at you, you move.

I can assure you in 57 years time I won’t give a "………………”. But for those around then I’m sure Aston Villa we still be in the Premier League ( if not the European Super League) if you want to see top flight football ️. 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

What do you mean by rose tinted specs.  I don’t think anyone is suggesting he’s the finished article, and I suspect buying clubs know that too.  So why rose-tinted specs comment?

No, £5m at start yr0, £5m yr1, £5m yr2, £5m yr3, £5m Yr 4 + £4m “credit”.

What is driving your need to want more up-front?  We aren’t gonna be spending it, and any fees we pay are likely to be instalments too.  FFP / P&S will take the £25m into our accounts immediately, regardless of instalments or not.  Steve ensures we have the necessary Cashflow.  I’m not saying we wouldn’t mind it all up-front, but it doesn’t make much difference.

So my arithmetic wasn't wrong just the semantics of counting. Whether you count 1,2,3,4,5,or 0,1,2,3,4 it's 5 years of payments not 4.

As for more up front we may or may not spend the money but it affords us more flexibility if we suddenly need to. If we another crucial player does his ACL in training we many need to spend more than planned. This, and my natural dislike of payment plans are sort of driving me. I know your £5M is only indicative but if West Ham are getting £105M for a bag of Rice they can afford to pay a bit more up top. Arsenal ain't going to be paying the Irons £5M a year for 21 years. 

[redsapper]

49 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s that kind of statement that shows ignorance of both 1) the current financial accounts - the accounts are far from ok really - £200m of debt, 2) the current financial rules that govern the EFL (FFP P&S)…unless of course you have just decided to ignore them and 3) modern football in terms of player movement.

Do I like the rules?

Nope.

Would I like players to stay a bit longer?

Yes, but if someone waves 4-5x your wage at you, you move.

On a 5 Live pod cast this week. It states the average Prem wage is now £65,000

The link is below

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001n9w7

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Jerseybean said:

In other related news ….. The Daily Mail report that West Ham have now made an approach to sign Adams from Leeds United. It’s stated that moves have been made for a couple of other midfielders in Denis Zakaria of Juventus and Southampton’s James Ward-Prowse.

Scott will be on a list of targets. They may look to sign 2, perhaps 3 midfielders if the price is right with Lanzini also off.

[RedRoss]

4 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

I can assure you in 57 years time I won’t give a "………………”. But for those around then I’m sure Aston Villa we still be in the Premier League ( if not the European Super League) if you want to see top flight football ️. 

So in short you have nothing informed to reply with.

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

I can assure you in 57 years time I won’t give a "………………”. But for those around then I’m sure Aston Villa we still be in the Premier League ( if not the European Super League) if you want to see top flight football ️. 

If you cite Aston Villa you are missing a couple of key details.

1) They gained £36m profit on disposal and leaseback of stadium in 2018-19 which meant they could hold onto Grealish and gamble once more. This loophole is shut! A stadium or fixed asset sale would thus have no impact.

2) They also had HS2 route going through their training Ground, another £14.4m income albeit compensation. We do not have this luxury, it was their bad luck yet fortune at the same time. No other club has been impacted upon albeit benefited in this way.

3) 3rd and final year of Parachute Payments.

4) The future monitoring was not as advanced as now. Now if a club loses between £x and £y in 3 years the League will ask for the following 2 years of P&S numbers and can impose restrictions ahead of time if required to help prevent a breach.

That said we don't need to sell Scott for FFP, nor Conway or Bell. Not strictly speaking but it will mean we maybe can't spend much more than we have this season.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Grey Fox]

7 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

So in short you have nothing informed to reply with.

Plenty,

1. The only solution to resolving £200m of debt is promotion to the PL ( unless you can find 10 Alex Scott’s). A slow year by year improvement will take longer to fix the problem than I have to live.

2. The current financial rules are ignored by some (allegedly Villa), and designed to protect the existing PL members via parachute payments. So if we are good little boys and play by the rules we are still at a massive disadvantage. Answer, play by your own rules.

3. Players aren’t slaves, of course they can move, typically to clubs with ambition. Make us the club they want to move too, not from.

I’m not the one who is being naive here, but the rubbing of hands (or something)of those on here as to how much the club will get for Scott is beginning to annoy me. He has two years on his contract, there is no need to sell now and plenty of need for him in our team.

[Grey Fox]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

If you cite Aston Villa you are missing a couple of key details.

1) They gained £36m profit on disposal and leaseback of stadium in 2018-19 which meant they could hold onto Grealish and gamble once more. This loophole is shut! A stadium or fixed asset sale would thus have no impact.

2) They also had HS2 route going through their training Ground, another £14.4m income albeit compensation. We do not have this luxury, it was their bad luck yet fortune at the same time. No other club has been impacted upon albeit benefited in this way.

3) 3rd and final year of Parachute Payments.

4) The future monitoring was not as advanced as now. Now if a club loses between £x and £y in 3 years the League will ask for the following 2 years of P&S numbers and can impose restrictions ahead of time if required to help prevent a breach.

That said we don't need to sell Scott for FFP, nor Conway or Bell. Not strictly speaking but it will mean we maybe can't spend much more than we have this season.

Use Wolves then, same story.

Brighton took a chance too

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Not aimed at yourself Dave - but there are plenty on here who rave on as if Alex Scott is Premier League ready etc. I’ve seen comments describing him as our “greatest ever youngster” etc and you could be forgiven for thinking he is the only up and coming English talent the way some posters carry on

He is an incredible talent - with bags of potential - I’m simply saying some people on here make out like he is ready to waltz into a Premier League starting 11.  
 

Its a huge step up 
 

 

 

 

FWIW I think he is PL ready because he’s technically gifted, you put him in a PL team with better players around him, I think he becomes better.  Waltz into a starting 11? Maybe no, more a quick fix-trot once he gets his chance though!

I do agree that he parts of his game to work on.

For me he is the best 19 year old we’ve produced in my 45 years of watching.  My rationale is that at 19, the likes of Gow (who went in to play top flight) weren’t dominating a tier 2 midfield.  Gow of course got better with age, but Gow wasn’t the Gow of 24/25 at 19 (I know that sounds stupid).

22 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

I can assure you in 57 years time I won’t give a "………………”. But for those around then I’m sure Aston Villa we still be in the Premier League ( if not the European Super League) if you want to see top flight football ️. 

Sorry, I’m missing the point / relevance of Aston Villa, Parachute Payment Aston Villa.  Care to explain?

19 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

So my arithmetic wasn't wrong just the semantics of counting. Whether you count 1,2,3,4,5,or 0,1,2,3,4 it's 5 years of payments not 4.

As for more up front we may or may not spend the money but it affords us more flexibility if we suddenly need to. If we another crucial player does his ACL in training we many need to spend more than planned. This, and my natural dislike of payment plans are sort of driving me. I know your £5M is only indicative but if West Ham are getting £105M for a bag of Rice they can afford to pay a bit more up top. Arsenal ain't going to be paying the Irons £5M a year for 21 years. 

Yep.

So your rationale is Cashflow.  If we had to go and spend £3m on a new player, I’d imagine we’d be paying in instalments too…so hopefully not too big an issue.

Re West Ham, the fee is just the final outcome of what we hope is hardball negotiation on our part.  You’d imagine our knowledge of West Ham’s finances (Rice) would play a part in our “pushing” for as big a fee as possible.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Use Wolves then, same story.

Not exactly no..They were narrowly in line by my calculations to 2017-18.

However a major breach would habe been forecast for 2018-19 without promotion. 8 figures.

Again the future and teal time monitoring did not exist in the same way then. The League couldn't impose restrictions ahead of future seasons to assist with compliance. They can now. Clubs voted for this.

We don't need to sell Scott for FFP, but we would be restricted somewhat in our expenditure this season and that is the trade-off.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[BarnzFM]

Genuinely worried that Grey Fox is my dad

[Davefevs]

@Grey Fox none if the examples you gave broke the financial rules.  Villa were in last chance saloon, but did comply (flaky loophole, so what).  Brighton didn’t, Wolves didn’t.

Derby tried to play by their own amortisation rules.

Sheffield Wednesday tried to bend the rules re dating of the stadium sale.

Reading just overspent.

Birmingham just overspent.

All got penalised.  Three of the 4 got relegated.  Birmingham sold their “Alex Scott on steroids” to survive.

I really don’t know what else to say.

[Grey Fox]

Nottingham Forest? There are plenty others, then of course you have the PL with Manchester City , Chelsea etc

 

Those you mentioned that got punished, only were for failing to get promoted.

 

The system is corrupt, plain and simple 

[redkev]

On 29/06/2023 at 13:10, Monkeh said:

That's the player I'm thinking,

When he was fit, I thought he was ahead of Scott in terms of development,

I'm looking forward to him being back

Yes and also like Scott has a bit of an edge on him , won’t be bullied 

[pillred]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, Ayling would’ve been really happy to wait 6 years for Naismith to arrive!!!!

I bet with hindsight he now feels a little foolish :laugh:.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, pillred said:

I bet with hindsight he now feels a little foolish :laugh:.

He’s still waiting for the manager to realise he’s 10x better than Adam Matthews!

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Nottingham Forest? There are plenty others, then of course you have the PL with Manchester City , Chelsea etc

 

Those you mentioned that got punished, only were for failing to get promoted.

 

The system is corrupt, plain and simple 

Forest didn't breach FFP either so who are the plenty of others you refer to who did and were promoted? Leicester perhaps who did it when the rules and penalties were very weak?

Man City of course are facing over 100 charges. Chelsea, it remains to be seen. UEFA have only just shut the door on contracts over 5 years and Chelsea have raked in approaching £200m so far this window so they may get away with it.

As to this:

Those you mentioned that got punished, only were for failing to get promoted.

You rather defeat your own argument for ignoring FFP given that, as @Davefevshas pointed out the great majority of those who did what you want paid a heavy price.

[cityal]

3 hours ago, KegCity said:

I'm a strong believer that at some point we do have to take a risk and retain big players when we're on the cusp of promotion. Brentford did it with Toney, Villa did it with Grealish. It is possible and no amount of calling ourselves a small club will change my mind.

BUT a deep lying centre mid who's going to leave for £25 million and fund our next promotion push (which may or may not be successful) is not the hill to die on. This transfer will, if invested correctly, fund a squad capable of being a genuine promotion candidate in the near future. Keeping Scott won't help us achieve that.

We need to be proactive with players such as Tommy Conway and Cam Pring and tie them down to long term deals so that we aren't forced to sell in a year or two's time, otherwise we'll be stuck in this loop of selling players to tread water in mid table. 

My recollection may be wrong - but I think that Brentford SOLD Watkins for £20m+ and then used that money to buy Toney - They then went up in Toney's first season?

The model used by Brentford is exactly what several people are advocating for in selling Scott this summer.