Alex Scott - £25m to Bournemouth- Confirmed

[Monkeh]

52 minutes ago, Philly The Kid said:

We all thought that with Josh Brownhill and LLoyd Kelly (as previously mentioned).
Doesn't always happen.

Have brownhill and Kelly left their clubs on a free? When did that happen?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Monkeh said:

Have brownhill and Kelly left their clubs on a free? When did that happen?

They were too valuable plus Bournemouth and Burnley weren't up against the wall FFP wise so they stayed.

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

QPR e.g. have or had wealthy owners, unsure about now but they're in a poor FFP position. We were but we've solved it now so no reason or take a poor offer.

My mates are Rangers fans. I was with them in the Loft last game and had quite a chat with loads of them before and after the game.
 

How they got themselves in such a state lord alone knows, but certainly from their fans perspective, they have no money available, they are having to sell at knockdown prices and importantly don’t have anything coming through. I was asked about Scott and HNM repeatedly (a very knowledgeable bunch I was with, probably because they know me) and also our academy  

I seem to remember (I may be wrong here) they are currently in the throws of putting together a Cat II academy, which if I’m right puts them way behind us. A fiver on relegation for them might not be a bad investment. 
 

Anyway I don’t want to hijack the Scott thread further

[Monkeh]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

They were too valuable plus Bournemouth and Burnley weren't up against the wall FFP wise so they stayed.

Thats the point, we may still get big sell on fees for two players still at there respective clubs, some are dismissing this as if it will never happen now

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Thats the point, we may still get big sell on fees for two players still at there respective clubs, some are dismissing this as if it will never happen now

Final year of contract for each- could be now or never I suppose.

[Super]

Where did the Newcastle rumours come from? Seems unlikely to me.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

Thats the point, we may still get big sell on fees for two players still at there respective clubs, some are dismissing this as if it will never happen now

Webster Kelly and Brownhill could all still gain us some wedge, even Ayling may, but less likely. I had this conversation recently, to what extent are clauses added regarding the player resigning for the club rather being sold? Is that a thing? 

[Leveller]

2 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

I agree, 25m is the price, thats it.

There is no "bidding war", its not in the clubs long term interest to indulge in one.

It does seem that Alex and his agent are playing ball with the club, but for how long ? If we go another couple of weeks and City have turned down 22m or 23m , they may get a bit jumpy and push for City to accept a lower fee (provided there is a club that suits Alex).

I read somewhere that City are being intransigent or inflexible with the price, but the fact is they have publicly said all along the fee is 25m so it seems to me that its the bidding clubs that are being inflexible - just pay the 25m or walk away, don't bleat about it.

Still not 100% convinced that an EPL club will pay the full 25m even though a couple seem to be getting close.

I don’t think City said the fee is £25M. As I recall, we said he wouldn’t go for less than £25M and if the demand was strong his value would go up. That says to me that we want at least £25M but if there are multiple offers, the highest bid wins.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Super said:

Where did the Newcastle rumours come from? Seems unlikely to me.

There was a rumor back a few months, but who knows I guess they are linked with anyone worth more than 20M

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

My mates are Rangers fans. I was with them in the Loft last game and had quite a chat with loads of them before and after the game.
 

How they got themselves in such a state lord alone knows, but certainly from their fans perspective, they have no money available, they are having to sell at knockdown prices and importantly don’t have anything coming through. I was asked about Scott and HNM repeatedly (a very knowledgeable bunch I was with, probably because they know me) and also our academy  

I seem to remember (I may be wrong here) they are currently in the throws of putting together a Cat II academy, which if I’m right puts them way behind us. A fiver on relegation for them might not be a bad investment. 
 

Anyway I don’t want to hijack the Scott thread further

Looks to me though as if there is an FFP issue looming there, if there are other financial pressures that is a double whammy.

£24m pre-tax losses in 2021-22, no big sales in 2022-23 £20m again maybe last season maybe a little more- no major sales last year.

£4-5m in allowable costs per year..seen suggestions of a £10m FFP hole going into this season. Ouch.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

46 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Still funny as … though. 

Absolutely!

15 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

My mates are Rangers fans. I was with them in the Loft last game and had quite a chat with loads of them before and after the game.
 

How they got themselves in such a state lord alone knows, but certainly from their fans perspective, they have no money available, they are having to sell at knockdown prices and importantly don’t have anything coming through. I was asked about Scott and HNM repeatedly (a very knowledgeable bunch I was with, probably because they know me) and also our academy  

I seem to remember (I may be wrong here) they are currently in the throws of putting together a Cat II academy, which if I’m right puts them way behind us. A fiver on relegation for them might not be a bad investment. 
 

Anyway I don’t want to hijack the Scott thread further

Did you give them a glowing reference re Massengo

10 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Webster Kelly and Brownhill could all still gain us some wedge, even Ayling may, but less likely. I had this conversation recently, to what extent are clauses added regarding the player resigning for the club rather being sold? Is that a thing? 

It depends what was written into the contract. Anecdotally most seem to be enduring, but I’ve heard of things like “sell-on only applies within the time period of the original contract”, e.g. Kelly signed a 4 year deal and sold for profit in year 5, we wouldn’t get anything.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Anyway back to Scott.

Clubs will know what it takes. Obviously chancing it somewhat, seeing if we might crumble a bit but we won't.

£15m derisory, £18m..Some 28 pct below asking price. £20-22m hmm but no.

[chinapig]

38 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Done strong business so far tbh.

Players like Pope (relative bargain for the level), Botman, Guimares, Isak- not saying the last 3 were wildly cheap but bigger, richer or more established clubs could absolutely have taken the chance tbh.

Definitely no paupers but others could have taken the chance. Trippier and Burn although older and more known quantities cost £25m the pair.

Of course it could easily have gone belly-up or at least midtable 12th or similar and then the cost pressures start to kick in.

They've recruited very well but Howe is now saying it's hard for them to sign the top players he wants to prepare for the Champions League so he is going to have to sell players he doesn't want to.

If he doesn't get what he wants it will be interesting to see if he starts to fall out with the owners.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united

[Monkeh]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Final year of contract for each- could be now or never I suppose.

Ir they could both sign new contracts

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Monkeh said:

Ir they could both sign new contracts

Of course. Still a year left.

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Absolutely!

Did you give them a glowing reference re Massengo

It depends what was written into the contract. Anecdotally most seem to be enduring, but I’ve heard of things like “sell-on only applies within the time period of the original contract”, e.g. Kelly signed a 4 year deal and sold for profit in year 5, we wouldn’t get anything.

My HNM reference was along the lines of what you @leadman and @Southport Red might expect

Mmmm so what did we get for Andy Cole to Man U?

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It depends what was written into the contract. Anecdotally most seem to be enduring, but I’ve heard of things like “sell-on only applies within the time period of the original contract”, e.g. Kelly signed a 4 year deal and sold for profit in year 5, we wouldn’t get anything.

Example as applicable to though we've sold maybe.

Contract expires but they renew after the accounting period. See Baker and Weimann in 2021 here.

Would a sell-on still hold or would that be it gone?

In short if Kelly contract ran down but he renewed in July or August 2024 and the same with Brownhill. Would a sell-on apply to a renewed deal of that kind?

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Kingswoodactor]

West Ham have now bid for Paulinha at Fulham, £45m apparently. If that goes through could Fulham then join the race for Scott? They certainly play some good stuff under Silva. Could see Scott fitting into their team well in fact. 

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Contract expires but they renew after the accounting period. See Baker and Weimann in 2021 here.

Both renewed before 30th June (contract end date)…May 31st Accounting period irrelevant here.

27 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In short if Kelly contract ran down but he renewed in July or August 2024 and the same with Brownhill. Would a sell-on apply to a renewed deal of that kind?

I can’t answer the July example, because player is still very likely to be getting severance payment, so not sure how that stands.  But if contract ended 30th June, severance paid throughout July, then August he would be a free transfer, and sell-on opportunity lost.

[Ecko]

5 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

West Ham have now bid for Paulinha at Fulham, £45m apparently. If that goes through could Fulham then join the race for Scott? They certainly play some good stuff under Silva. Could see Scott fitting into their team well in fact. 

Rejected. Fulham are holding out for £80m+

[RUSSEL85]

5 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

West Ham have now bid for Paulinha at Fulham, £45m apparently. If that goes through could Fulham then join the race for Scott? They certainly play some good stuff under Silva. Could see Scott fitting into their team well in fact. 

Rejected, apparently Fulham value him at nearly £80m. Football has lost its mind.

[Philly The Kid]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Have brownhill and Kelly left their clubs on a free? When did that happen?

They haven't and I never suggested they did.
My point was that we thought we were in for a Brucie bonus with sell on fees. Some naively thought if Bournemouth and Burnley came back down, those two were nailed on Premier league players who would be snapped up and we'd get the sell on bonus. My point was that hasn't happened so the same thing (conceivably) could happen with Alex if he goes to Bournemouth or Wolves. What if he doesn't kick on like Kelly didn't in the way some thought? If he goes on a long contract with no relegation clause it's conceivable we won't get any meaningful sell on. Not sure that'll happen, grant you, but I never mentioned anyone going on a free!

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Philly The Kid said:

They haven't and I never suggested they did.
My point was that we thought we were in for a Brucie bonus with sell on fees. Some naively thought if Bournemouth and Burnley came back down, those two were nailed on Premier league players who would be snapped up and we'd get the sell on bonus. My point was that hasn't happened so the same thing (conceivably) could happen with Alex if he goes to Bournemouth or Wolves. What if he doesn't kick on like Kelly didn't in the way some thought? If he goes on a long contract with no relegation clause it's conceivable we won't get any meaningful sell on. Not sure that'll happen, grant you, but I never mentioned anyone going on a free!

They were deemed too valuable to sell by Bournemouth and Burnley and Parachute Payments also helped so the clubs kept them- it's really that simple IMO.

If Bournemouth slap a £50m price tag on Kelly chances are he won't be sold, see January 2022.

If Kompany comes out and declares you are key after clearing the decks somewhat ahead of an attempted bounceback season you're staying put!

Whether they kicked on is one angle but if a club won't sell or won't sell below £x there are limited levers to pull.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red Army 75]

3 hours ago, Fammyfan said:

I question whether Wolves or Bournemouth are really great for Scott’s development.

Bournemouth have a squad that punched above their weight last season and Gary O’Neil did well to keep them up.

Wolves have recently lost Ruben Neves and Moutinho, both are players that could have been beneficial to Scott’s development but unsure there’s really any outstanding players for Scott to learn from.

Both clubs will need to seriously hit the ground running to avoid being in a relegation battle.

Of course, it’s an opportunity to step up to the Premier League but it wouldn’t be a great move to step up and come back down.

It may be better for Scott to stick around for another season, if he adds goals and assists to his game, you’d expect some solid interest to come from stronger teams.

Personally I believe he’s better off going to these sort of clubs. If he went to a bigger club and he didn’t get any game time, that is no good. He is good enough to get game time at the likes of Bournemouth and Wolves. He will develop further and move to a bigger club here or abroad in a few years. Resulting in another payout for Bristol City which is the most important thing.

I’m looking forward to his progression in his career. And we can all be proud that he started it at Bristol City. 

[Selred]

1 minute ago, Red Army 75 said:

If he went to a bigger club and he didn’t get any game time, that is no good.

Ampadu a prime example. £7m to Leeds isn't record breaking sell on for Exeter.

[Philly The Kid]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They were deemed too valuable to sell by Bournemouth and Burnley and Parachute Payments also helped so the clubs kept them- it's really that simple IMO.

If Bournemouth slap a £50m price tag on Kelly chances are he won't be sold, see January 2022.

If Kompany comes out and declares you are key after clearing the decks somewhat ahead of an attempted bounceback season you're staying put!

Whether they kicked on is one angle but if a club won't sell or won't sell below £x there are limited levers to pull.

Yes, and that's the point isn't it? we're not guaranteed anything which is exactly why the club are playing hardball and asking for a fee they believe to be his true value as it stands. Where his value goes in the future is dependent on whether he continues to progress and whether he's properly coached to achieve his maximum. There are no guarantees in life.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Philly The Kid said:

Yes, and that's the point isn't it? we're not guaranteed anything which is exactly why the club are playing hardball and asking for a fee they believe to be his true value as it stands. Where his value goes in the future is dependent on whether he continues to progress and whether he's properly coached to achieve his maximum. There are no guarantees in life.

 

Yes agreed. We should be looking for the maximum we can get here and now but also worth mentioning that the interest turned down, irrespective of the development or not Newcastle weren't as of January 2022 going to pay £50m for Kelly IMO.

Burnley would have demanded a huge amount for Brownhill too I expect. That's if they would have sold at all last season which was doubtful.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Ska Junkie]

I see Bournemouth are 'readying another bid' ( according to newsnow). That will be less than Wolves have already had declined then and will be BCFC's fault for turning it down. 

[chinapig]

West Ham are not optimistic that they will get Palhinha or Alvarez. I doubt Juve will allow Zakaria out on loan again.

Which leaves Ward -Prowse, Onana and ... Alex.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/17/west-ham-harry-maguire-loan-joao-palhinha-bid-manchester-united-fulham

[Sir Geoff]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

West Ham are not optimistic that they will get Palhinha or Alvarez. I doubt Juve will allow Zakaria out on loan again.

Which leaves Ward -Prowse, Onana and ... Alex.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/17/west-ham-harry-maguire-loan-joao-palhinha-bid-manchester-united-fulham

If West Ham are the only option then I think he will still be here next season after Moyes failed to show him any pathway into the first team, allegedly.