Joe Bryan - Signed for Millwall

[REDOXO]

55 minutes ago, mozo said:

No signing is guaranteed but one doubt surrounding this one is his recent appearance record. The last time he had 20 games in a season was 2019-20. I'm not saying that's an issue for me but I don't think it's overly generous to grant others an acceptance that their concerns have some foundation. 

There's enough doubt regards which Joe Bryan were getting to make both sides valid imo.

 

I agree. However in the past we have not only made a habit of signing crocks in some cases it was deliberate. Webster worked out, but half a dozen didn’t. 
 

In view of that Pearson will only sign players if a/They are ready b/if they can be developed. If we are after and do get Joe, I suspect the club and its many teams think he’s good to go for our purposes. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Let's see. Assuming the two signings come off and Scott is still our player (for now).

O'Leary, Bajic, Wiles-Richards

Tanner, Wilson

Vyner, Kalas (?), Atkinson

Pring, DaSilva (?)

Naismith, James, Williams, Scott, McCrorie, King (?)

Benarous, Cornick, Mehmeti, Sykes, Bryan

Conway, Wells, Weimann, Bell

The questions of course are how many of the out of contract, plus young goalkeepers, a certain possinle future England international midfielder and of course maybe even Wilson given his lack of game time etc stay on.

[RedorDead BCFC]

Probably been on here before, but here is a link regarding Bryan 

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/sources-bristol-city-agree-canny-fulham-signing-nigel-pearson-adds-critical-missing-ingredient

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

Come on, @Davefevs, I'm not that shallow in my analysis, even if I can't understand your graphs. It's more a case of how he fits in the team, in the shape - we have a LB who has been exceptional this season, do we really want a backup that the fans will be clamouring for? And whose wages will likely be pretty hefty? And who's 29 (not old, but). 

I just don't see how JB fits into the whole team. However, he is a good player, and by all accounts an excellent young man, so fingers crossed it works out. But I think he'd want to start, so where does that leave Pring?

I’m aiming my comments at the general ”thoughts” behind some posts, not the individuals.

I do think we have to stop thinking “how does x fit into our best eleven” and think more “how would player x strengthen / compliment what we have”.  Did anyone really see Zak Vyner starting 45 league games, or Kal Naismith and Rob Atkinson only 48 between them because of injuries (in the main).  Cam Pring didn’t start a game until the 29th October.  He started 29 games…9 of them at LCB in a back 4, 4 of them at LCB3 in a back 3.  He only started 11 games at LB last season….the remaining 5 were LWB.

So, firstly, we need more than eleven players to get through 11 lots of 46 games.  FWIW, only Swansea (24) and Millwall (26) used less players last season than us…we still used 28.  Take away Low (1) and Kadji’s (2) appearances, it’s still 26 players.  So even though Nige won’t collect players you need a critical mass to get you through.

Lets not forget that the FA Cup run probably tipped us over the edge of players maybe being pushed 1 or 2 games too far.

Only 4 players “appeared” 40+ times last season.  Zak Vyner (45 starts), Alex Scott (40 starts), Andi Weimann (31 starts), Nahki Wells (32 starts).  That’s a helluva lot (358) starting slots to share around.

So that’s the squad vs best xi argument from my perspective.

Secondly, with the impressive form of Cam Pring, it’s highly unlikely Joe Bryan is being signed (on what is likely to be near the top of our wage structure) to play second fiddle / cover.  It stands to reason he is being signed to play somewhere else.  I’d be amazed if Cam isn’t seen at de facto LB from a summer planning perspective.

So what are the likely options for Joe:

- in a more conventional midfield role, e.g. LCM3

- more advanced, e.g. LW / LF3 (which is where he started his career)

- plus giving cover for Pring, should he get injured, suspended, sold (maybe not this summer, but we need to plan further ahead than one window)

FWIW, I think his best football in a City shirt came playing LW in 17/18.  I also think he was great example of the modern day Wing-back too.  We don’t play WBs, nor do I see us moving back to it either, so scratch that reason.  But the other position he played a small number of times and looked “at home” in was central midfield.  I recall Villa (h) and Wolves (a) in particular.  Imho he’s just a good, intelligent footballer.  The other stuff re Bristol-born, ex-player, nice chap etc are lovely additions, but it’s him as a footballer I’m excited by.

So that’s how I see Joe Bryan fitting into this “whole team”, and by whole team I mean squad. I assume you did too, and not 11 starting places?

I honestly don’t worry about the lack of games in the last two seasons, those were at a higher level than we are at.  And even the season before that, his availability was good…just Antonee Robinson was better.  My thought process is that will drive his hunger, but that’s me putting my slant on it, so can be disregarded to an extent, it’s an unknown to suit my argument.

Dunno whether that helps, or just doubles down for you?

1 hour ago, Ian M said:

We’re clearly operating within our means still which limits our budget, reading between the lines from Nigel’s interviews, it’s the two signings then see what happens with outbound transfers. With that in mind, if Nigel is using that limited budget to sign JB then he’ll have a plan that doesn’t involve him being backup…. Or relegating one of our best performers in 22/23 to that role either.

condensed view of mine above

52 minutes ago, mozo said:

No signing is guaranteed but one doubt surrounding this one is his recent appearance record. The last time he had 20 games in a season was 2019-20. I'm not saying that's an issue for me but I don't think it's overly generous to grant others an acceptance that their concerns have some foundation. 

There's enough doubt regards which Joe Bryan were getting to make both sides valid imo.

 

I think you have to look at why, not just black and white numbers.  I think there is a tendency to look at appearances and draw conclusion of “lack of availability”.  As above, I’d suggest Antonee Robinson was the main reason.  He appeared in 34/38 match day squads in the PL in 20/21, 27 last season in the champ, etc.. yep, he’s had a few injuries.  Concerns are fine, assertions are a different matter.  There is some balance to be had in the debate though.  That’s what is happening.

19 minutes ago, glynriley said:

I swear some of our fans think we can get through a 46 game (+cup) season with 16 players...

That’s why my mantra is it’s a squad game.  Lack of depth is (probably) the biggest reason we didn’t finish higher.

[joe jordans teeth]

14 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Probably been on here before, but here is a link regarding Bryan 

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/sources-bristol-city-agree-canny-fulham-signing-nigel-pearson-adds-critical-missing-ingredient

Veteran at 29 makes me feel well old

[formerly known as ivan]

1 hour ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Probably been on here before, but here is a link regarding Bryan 

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/sources-bristol-city-agree-canny-fulham-signing-nigel-pearson-adds-critical-missing-ingredient

Is 29 years old now seen as a Veteran???

[Elruliri]

That did make me laugh, I'll start digging my grave I'm 49. 

[cidered abroad]

12 minutes ago, Elruliri said:

That did make me laugh, I'll start digging my grave I'm 49. 

I'm 80 in a few weeks and have paid for a big fire not a grave! Not yet though otherwise I've wasted over £600 for City and Bears ST's

[CiderJar]

 

 

[CiderJar]

Gossip picking up pace.... sorry for the repetition above.

[Sturny]

Huge

[David Brent]

5 hours ago, mozo said:

No signing is guaranteed but one doubt surrounding this one is his recent appearance record. The last time he had 20 games in a season was 2019-20. I'm not saying that's an issue for me but I don't think it's overly generous to grant others an acceptance that their concerns have some foundation. 

There's enough doubt regards which Joe Bryan were getting to make both sides valid imo.

 

Do you know if he was injured during that period or just not first choice?

Number of games he was available for vs number of games he was selected for is important.

[Bobbie]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No signing is guaranteed, is it?  But it just feels like some are glossing over / ignoring the obvious quality he has by overstating hypothetical things / possible future events happening like coming back for an easy life, he might get injured, etc.  On that basis, should we never sign any player???

My point is should we resign players from the area who may be coming back to be closer to family and friends rather than for the next step in their careers. If Joe had offers from bigger clubs everyone would rave about how we’ve ‘won’ his signature, whereas the reality is, he may be coming back not purely for footballing reasons and, perhaps subconsciously, will take his foot of the pedal. It’s often said that being comfortable is the enemy of progression. 
 

anyway, it’s only a minor concern of mine, that many people seem to have taken great offence in me airing. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

My point is should we resign players from the area who may be coming back to be closer to family and friends rather than for the next step in their careers. If Joe had offers from bigger clubs everyone would rave about how we’ve ‘won’ his signature, whereas the reality is, he may be coming back not purely for footballing reasons and, perhaps subconsciously, will take his foot of the pedal. It’s often said that being comfortable is the enemy of progression. 
 

anyway, it’s only a minor concern of mine, that many people seem to have taken great offence in me airing. 

How does that square off against “Stoke, Blackburn Rovers, Millwall, Swansea and Cardiff have all declared their intent”?  Perhaps I should be raving? I jest.

I don’t think any of us can quote his motivations with any confidence.  Your (paraphrased) “easy option” rationale versus others (paraphrased)“ambitious” reasons are just opposing opinions.

That’s why I’ve tried to focus the discussion on his football ability, and how that would (or wouldn’t) benefit Bristol City’s team / squad / depth.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

17 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

My point is should we resign players from the area who may be coming back to be closer to family and friends rather than for the next step in their careers. If Joe had offers from bigger clubs everyone would rave about how we’ve ‘won’ his signature, whereas the reality is, he may be coming back not purely for footballing reasons and, perhaps subconsciously, will take his foot of the pedal. It’s often said that being comfortable is the enemy of progression. 
 

anyway, it’s only a minor concern of mine, that many people seem to have taken great offence in me airing. 

Nothing offensive about that opinion, but is equally easy to argue the other way: coming home and feeling more comfortable allows him to give his best (endless tales of homesick footballers for whom a distant club doesn’t work out), he wants to impress friends and family who are at every game, inspired to help his first/hometown club get to the hallowed land etc. Clearly may not work out that way, but personally see it as more plausible than the easy life argument. 

[Bobbie]

1 minute ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Nothing offensive about that opinion, but is equally easy to argue the other way: coming home and feeling more comfortable allows him to give his best (endless tales of homesick footballers for whom a distant club doesn’t work out), he wants to impress friends and family who are at every game, inspired to help his first/hometown club get to the hallowed land etc. Clearly may not work out that way, but personally see it as more plausible than the easy life argument. 

Fair point and I genuinely hope that’s the case. COYR 

[exAtyeoMax]

still got lovely hair 

[HoldenBall]

Eh. I see both sides to this being a positive and a slightly negative signing. Positive he is experienced, great role model, he can also be a tutor and a mentor for a lot of the younger players. He knows the area, the club and that's important too. 

Negatives is he potentially doesn't fit our new recruitment policy, and I feel like he plays in positions we don't need to strengthen (although I understand peoples points of rotation). I am such a massive fan of Cam Pring and I believe he can be our next player to play in the premiership. I wouldn't want his development stifled because we feel like we have to play Bryan. Also Bryan is not our answer to our sometimes weak midfield, although again he can do a "job" in there if necessary I've already seen people put him in our midfield in our predicted starting 11 for next season on twitter. He isn't a central midfielder. 

I'm just not sure where i would like him in our team and I'm a little concerned his name will get him in the starting 11. 

[Loosey Boy]

21 minutes ago, HoldenBall said:

Eh. I see both sides to this being a positive and a slightly negative signing. Positive he is experienced, great role model, he can also be a tutor and a mentor for a lot of the younger players. He knows the area, the club and that's important too. 

Negatives is he potentially doesn't fit our new recruitment policy, and I feel like he plays in positions we don't need to strengthen (although I understand peoples points of rotation). I am such a massive fan of Cam Pring and I believe he can be our next player to play in the premiership. I wouldn't want his development stifled because we feel like we have to play Bryan. Also Bryan is not our answer to our sometimes weak midfield, although again he can do a "job" in there if necessary I've already seen people put him in our midfield in our predicted starting 11 for next season on twitter. He isn't a central midfielder. 

I'm just not sure where i would like him in our team and I'm a little concerned his name will get him in the starting 11. 

If you think that NP will play Joe B or anyone for that matter because of “his name”, I think you are very much mistaken.

JB will be a versatile member of the squad who could play in a number of positions, just as he did when he was with us before.

I will be delighted if and when this is finally confirmed - for me, it’s a “statement of intent” signing which will make our squad much stronger.

 

[HoldenBall]

1 minute ago, Loosey Boy said:

If you think that NP will play Joe B or anyone for that matter because of “his name”, I think you are very much mistaken.

JB will be a versatile member of the squad who could play in a number of positions, just as he did when he was with us before.

I will be delighted if and when this is finally confirmed - for me, it’s a “statement of intent” signing which will make our squad much stronger.

 

I hope so. I know Bryan is a great pro, fantastic lad and will be great with everyone at the club. I trust Pearson completely with this signing. 

[bearded_red]

[Curr Avon]

6 hours ago, CiderJar said:

 

 

He knows the club. He knows the team, even though all of the players have left since his first stint. He knows the tea lady. These facts mustn't be underestimated.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Curr Avon

[And Its Smith]

7 hours ago, HoldenBall said:

Eh. I see both sides to this being a positive and a slightly negative signing. Positive he is experienced, great role model, he can also be a tutor and a mentor for a lot of the younger players. He knows the area, the club and that's important too. 

Negatives is he potentially doesn't fit our new recruitment policy, and I feel like he plays in positions we don't need to strengthen (although I understand peoples points of rotation). I am such a massive fan of Cam Pring and I believe he can be our next player to play in the premiership. I wouldn't want his development stifled because we feel like we have to play Bryan. Also Bryan is not our answer to our sometimes weak midfield, although again he can do a "job" in there if necessary I've already seen people put him in our midfield in our predicted starting 11 for next season on twitter. He isn't a central midfielder. 

I'm just not sure where i would like him in our team and I'm a little concerned his name will get him in the starting 11. 

He does suit our recruitment policy. Experienced players on a free is certainly part of our policy 

[citywest30]

I think it is really important we get a few younger but experienced pros. Our current ones are the wrong side of 30 - James, King, Weimann, Wells, Naismith, Kalas, if he stays, and other than Vyner and Cornick, there is a gap to the younger players.

I am really hoping we bring in 2 or 3 players in the 25-29 range to provide experience with legs as the older ones start playing less.

And Bryan is a quality player. As others had said, if his name wasn't Bryan and this was another player who had the same career history, we would all be raving about getting in such a good player from out of contract.

[GrahamC]

49 minutes ago, citywest30 said:

I think it is really important we get a few younger but experienced pros. Our current ones are the wrong side of 30 - James, King, Weimann, Wells, Naismith, Kalas, if he stays, and other than Vyner and Cornick, there is a gap to the younger players.

I am really hoping we bring in 2 or 3 players in the 25-29 range to provide experience with legs as the older ones start playing less.

And Bryan is a quality player. As others had said, if his name wasn't Bryan and this was another player who had the same career history, we would all be raving about getting in such a good player from out of contract.

Bit harsh on Kalas, he was 30 this week!

[BarnzFM]

Proven good professional as well, really good role model for our young squad, he’s not your stereotype footballer

[Bristolcityyatton]

1 hour ago, citywest30 said:

I think it is really important we get a few younger but experienced pros. Our current ones are the wrong side of 30 - James, King, Weimann, Wells, Naismith, Kalas, if he stays, and other than Vyner and Cornick, there is a gap to the younger players.

I am really hoping we bring in 2 or 3 players in the 25-29 range to provide experience with legs as the older ones start playing less.

And Bryan is a quality player. As others had said, if his name wasn't Bryan and this was another player who had the same career history, we would all be raving about getting in such a good player from out of contract.

The mix of the squad is looking quite good if we get Bryan and McCrorie.

As you say, we have James, King, Weimann, Wells, Naismith who are all 30 -35 and then either or both of Kalas (recently turned 30) and Bryan (30 in september)

O'Leary, Pring, Atkinson, Vyner, Williams, Sykes, Cornick, McCrorie will all be 25 to 29 next season. 

And then all the promising younger players.

[bcfc01]

1 hour ago, Bristolcityyatton said:

The mix of the squad is looking quite good if we get Bryan and McCrorie.

As you say, we have James, King, Weimann, Wells, Naismith who are all 30 -35 and then either or both of Kalas (recently turned 30) and Bryan (30 in september)

O'Leary, Pring, Atkinson, Vyner, Williams, Sykes, Cornick, McCrorie will all be 25 to 29 next season. 

And then all the promising younger players.

Beat me to it.

Seems a near perfectly balanced squad to me.

[SecretSam]

On 19/05/2023 at 16:20, Davefevs said:

I’m aiming my comments at the general ”thoughts” behind some posts, not the individuals.

I do think we have to stop thinking “how does x fit into our best eleven” and think more “how would player x strengthen / compliment what we have”.  Did anyone really see Zak Vyner starting 45 league games, or Kal Naismith and Rob Atkinson only 48 between them because of injuries (in the main).  Cam Pring didn’t start a game until the 29th October.  He started 29 games…9 of them at LCB in a back 4, 4 of them at LCB3 in a back 3.  He only started 11 games at LB last season….the remaining 5 were LWB.

So, firstly, we need more than eleven players to get through 11 lots of 46 games.  FWIW, only Swansea (24) and Millwall (26) used less players last season than us…we still used 28.  Take away Low (1) and Kadji’s (2) appearances, it’s still 26 players.  So even though Nige won’t collect players you need a critical mass to get you through.

Lets not forget that the FA Cup run probably tipped us over the edge of players maybe being pushed 1 or 2 games too far.

Only 4 players “appeared” 40+ times last season.  Zak Vyner (45 starts), Alex Scott (40 starts), Andi Weimann (31 starts), Nahki Wells (32 starts).  That’s a helluva lot (358) starting slots to share around.

So that’s the squad vs best xi argument from my perspective.

Secondly, with the impressive form of Cam Pring, it’s highly unlikely Joe Bryan is being signed (on what is likely to be near the top of our wage structure) to play second fiddle / cover.  It stands to reason he is being signed to play somewhere else.  I’d be amazed if Cam isn’t seen at de facto LB from a summer planning perspective.

So what are the likely options for Joe:

- in a more conventional midfield role, e.g. LCM3

- more advanced, e.g. LW / LF3 (which is where he started his career)

- plus giving cover for Pring, should he get injured, suspended, sold (maybe not this summer, but we need to plan further ahead than one window)

FWIW, I think his best football in a City shirt came playing LW in 17/18.  I also think he was great example of the modern day Wing-back too.  We don’t play WBs, nor do I see us moving back to it either, so scratch that reason.  But the other position he played a small number of times and looked “at home” in was central midfield.  I recall Villa (h) and Wolves (a) in particular.  Imho he’s just a good, intelligent footballer.  The other stuff re Bristol-born, ex-player, nice chap etc are lovely additions, but it’s him as a footballer I’m excited by.

So that’s how I see Joe Bryan fitting into this “whole team”, and by whole team I mean squad. I assume you did too, and not 11 starting places?

I honestly don’t worry about the lack of games in the last two seasons, those were at a higher level than we are at.  And even the season before that, his availability was good…just Antonee Robinson was better.  My thought process is that will drive his hunger, but that’s me putting my slant on it, so can be disregarded to an extent, it’s an unknown to suit my argument.

Dunno whether that helps, or just doubles down for you?

condensed view of mine above

I think you have to look at why, not just black and white numbers.  I think there is a tendency to look at appearances and draw conclusion of “lack of availability”.  As above, I’d suggest Antonee Robinson was the main reason.  He appeared in 34/38 match day squads in the PL in 20/21, 27 last season in the champ, etc.. yep, he’s had a few injuries.  Concerns are fine, assertions are a different matter.  There is some balance to be had in the debate though.  That’s what is happening.

That’s why my mantra is it’s a squad game.  Lack of depth is (probably) the biggest reason we didn’t finish higher.

Fair enough, although it's 'fewer' players, not 'less' , @Davefevs

[Colombo Robin]

On 19/05/2023 at 17:20, Davefevs said:

I’m aiming my comments at the general ”thoughts” behind some posts, not the individuals.

I do think we have to stop thinking “how does x fit into our best eleven” and think more “how would player x strengthen / compliment what we have”.  Did anyone really see Zak Vyner starting 45 league games, or Kal Naismith and Rob Atkinson only 48 between them because of injuries (in the main).  Cam Pring didn’t start a game until the 29th October.  He started 29 games…9 of them at LCB in a back 4, 4 of them at LCB3 in a back 3.  He only started 11 games at LB last season….the remaining 5 were LWB.

So, firstly, we need more than eleven players to get through 11 lots of 46 games.  FWIW, only Swansea (24) and Millwall (26) used less players last season than us…we still used 28.  Take away Low (1) and Kadji’s (2) appearances, it’s still 26 players.  So even though Nige won’t collect players you need a critical mass to get you through.

Lets not forget that the FA Cup run probably tipped us over the edge of players maybe being pushed 1 or 2 games too far.

Only 4 players “appeared” 40+ times last season.  Zak Vyner (45 starts), Alex Scott (40 starts), Andi Weimann (31 starts), Nahki Wells (32 starts).  That’s a helluva lot (358) starting slots to share around.

So that’s the squad vs best xi argument from my perspective.

Secondly, with the impressive form of Cam Pring, it’s highly unlikely Joe Bryan is being signed (on what is likely to be near the top of our wage structure) to play second fiddle / cover.  It stands to reason he is being signed to play somewhere else.  I’d be amazed if Cam isn’t seen at de facto LB from a summer planning perspective.

So what are the likely options for Joe:

- in a more conventional midfield role, e.g. LCM3

- more advanced, e.g. LW / LF3 (which is where he started his career)

- plus giving cover for Pring, should he get injured, suspended, sold (maybe not this summer, but we need to plan further ahead than one window)

FWIW, I think his best football in a City shirt came playing LW in 17/18.  I also think he was great example of the modern day Wing-back too.  We don’t play WBs, nor do I see us moving back to it either, so scratch that reason.  But the other position he played a small number of times and looked “at home” in was central midfield.  I recall Villa (h) and Wolves (a) in particular.  Imho he’s just a good, intelligent footballer.  The other stuff re Bristol-born, ex-player, nice chap etc are lovely additions, but it’s him as a footballer I’m excited by.

So that’s how I see Joe Bryan fitting into this “whole team”, and by whole team I mean squad. I assume you did too, and not 11 starting places?

I honestly don’t worry about the lack of games in the last two seasons, those were at a higher level than we are at.  And even the season before that, his availability was good…just Antonee Robinson was better.  My thought process is that will drive his hunger, but that’s me putting my slant on it, so can be disregarded to an extent, it’s an unknown to suit my argument.

Dunno whether that helps, or just doubles down for you?

condensed view of mine above

I think you have to look at why, not just black and white numbers.  I think there is a tendency to look at appearances and draw conclusion of “lack of availability”.  As above, I’d suggest Antonee Robinson was the main reason.  He appeared in 34/38 match day squads in the PL in 20/21, 27 last season in the champ, etc.. yep, he’s had a few injuries.  Concerns are fine, assertions are a different matter.  There is some balance to be had in the debate though.  That’s what is happening.

That’s why my mantra is it’s a squad game.  Lack of depth is (probably) the biggest reason we didn’t finish higher.

Personally, I'd like to see a little more background research to support your position on this