Anyone want to feel absolutely miserable this evening (and all summer)?

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

I can't be miserable or gloomy. We may not be where we want to be yet but we've got a young team that's the most exciting in years. I've been watching City for over 60 years, with all the up and downs, and I'm now looking forward again to watching each week. As for Luton and Coventry they're in the play-off final on merit, get used to it. 

[ExiledAjax]

11 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

The knack is smart recruitment & excellent scouting - easier said than done!

Keiran Maguire (the football finance guy) sums the recipe for success in football up as: resources, opportunity, execution.

You need to have the resources - financial wriggle room, income and control of outgoings, the opportunity - a division that opens up, the right squad at the right time, and then you have to have the right people making good decisions and executing your plan.

We've had/have a few of these things in place, but not all at once. Opportunity has always been there. Resources are now in place after a few years of a rebuild. Execution is now key.

[Red-Robbo]

One assumes it'll be Luton going up. Coventry sort of crept in to the play-offs on the back of some good results late on, but Luton were more consistently impressive. Anyone's game though.

I don't think anyone should be downhearted though. We are moving in the right direction and are nearer the play-offs (10 points away) than relegation (15 away). Last season the play-offs were 20 points away and relegation 14; the one before the figures were 26 points off the play-offs, 7 points off relegation. 

I think the composition of the midfield that emerges after the summer will be key for us. It always seems that we lose a number of key battles there. 

[RedRoss]

I see it differently. You can't dwell on the past. I'm sure there are other clubs who have headed in the other direction.

I think its a positive to see one of two smaller budget clubs on the cusp of prem football in the place of the usual PP funded clubs that bounce back and forth.

It's motivation for our club to get things right like Luton and Coventry and I think we are on an upward curve so let's hope we can eventually do the same.

[LondonBristolian]

I think the unsurprising lesson that comes from this thread is that comparisons to others always make you feel shit about yourself. Realistically there will always be teams doing better or worse than us. There are teams in League One with much more recent top flight histories and, yes, there are teams in the top flight who have historically done the same as us or worse.

I don't personally feel it much matters who these teams are and I see it as a positive rather than a negative that it's not just the same teams as every season going up and down. I reckon it must be around 20 years since West Brom were last in this division and not benefitting from parachute payments and I'm not sure them going up and then coming down with another three years' worth would be a great outcome for the competitiveness of the division.

I want us to finish higher next season than this season. It would be great to be in the top flight but the same people frustrated now would still feel frustrated we can't compete with teams with more resources and hacked off if a teams perceived as "smaller" finished in a higher position and there are plenty of clubs in League One, League Two or below that wouldn't see a mid-table Championship finish as the disaster that many on here seem to feel it is. 

[BCFCGav]

Of course I could never actually go through with it, but very occasionally I miss League 1 wrap up a 5th 3rd Division title and a 4th JPT, celebrations all round

[JoeAman08]

3 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

For me the more teams competing the better for us, cause that means more teams beating each other and the division is closer, the last thing you want is 4/5 teams running away with it cause we wouldn't be one of those 5, but 10 teams going for it then I can defo see us in that group and it's all to play for

I’d argue it is what it was this year. The top 12 all capable of beating anyone outside Burnley on their day. Think next season there may be a few Burnleys. We will see always say it and often doesn’t happen but can’t help but think the top 6 will be harder to crack next season for any non PP clubs. 

 

2 hours ago, spudski said:

That's how I see it as well. 

Imo...next season will be one of the strongest Championships in a long time. 

It's going to be harder to make the top 6 imo. 

We've been improving and playing some good football this season. We will undoubtedly improve again and become stronger...however...I think we will need to improve to even keep mid table. 

Hopefully we have a season where other teams under achieve. 

Imo...mid table on paper would be a respectable. 

Top 6 reliant on us over achieving and others under achieving. 

I just hope if the season does play out how I feel it might, that fans don't see us as not improving. 

Sadly the top 6 hope has been dangled again recently in NPs interview. 

As we've seen before in previous seasons...if it's mentioned that their is belief we have the ability for top 6, it's used against them if they don't achieve it. 

 

Read this after my first response and probably sums up what I think but better. We could finish on 60 points next season which is barely better but it would probably be a much greater achievement. 
 

Top 6 is always our ambition and probably 20 teams in the leagues ambition. That expectation always comes from the top though and idk why they keep saying it. No good comes from it imo. 
 

For us next season, McRorie and Bryan would be a hell of a start. However, can only see us being a real threat if Scott stays and takes another step in his development along with some additions. I’d probably take the 10m hit on his fee for another season. Should still be able to fetch 10-15m for him with a season left on his deal. I think he is level headed enough to still play at a high level not getting a move this summer. Of course not saying turn down 25m if we get the offer but I would be very firm in negotiations. He is good enough to carry a team to bigger things at this level imo if he takes that next step and adds the goal threat. 

[Baba Yaga]

The Championship is a very good league and I am not particularly ambitious about getting promoted right away because generally speaking I have enjoyed the football/days out last season.

Looking at Cov they have only lost once in 19 games and Luton have lost twice in 19 games, if I was being generous I would say City were on a similar path in Jan and Feb before the injuries hit (and possibly the Man City motivation wore off). Neither of those teams are anything special but have a resilience that we also had for a while but couldn't maintain, there are quite a few positive signs with a squad of lots of academy players/bought from lower divisions so personally feeling quite patient with them (although I expect NP to be the opposite and demanding lots more).

[Red-Robbo]

24 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think the unsurprising lesson that comes from this thread is that comparisons to others always make you feel shit about yourself. Realistically there will always be teams doing better or worse than us. There are teams in League One with much more recent top flight histories and, yes, there are teams in the top flight who have historically done the same as us or worse.

I don't personally feel it much matters who these teams are and I see it as a positive rather than a negative that it's not just the same teams as every season going up and down. I reckon it must be around 20 years since West Brom were last in this division and not benefitting from parachute payments and I'm not sure them going up and then coming down with another three years' worth would be a great outcome for the competitiveness of the division.

I want us to finish higher next season than this season. It would be great to be in the top flight but the same people frustrated now would still feel frustrated we can't compete with teams with more resources and hacked off if a teams perceived as "smaller" finished in a higher position and there are plenty of clubs in League One, League Two or below that wouldn't see a mid-table Championship finish as the disaster that many on here seem to feel it is. 

 

We used to feel great about getting out of the third flight and playing in the second one.  It's a mark of where the club is now that we've enjoyed 8 seasons now at this level and are about to enjoy a ninth, with more possibility of a play-off finish than a relegation battle. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

55 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Don’t really get this thread. If it was the same old teams in the play offs we’d be moaning about the inequality of parachute payments and how can we ever hope to compete etc etc etc.

With a young, improving team and likely a lot of money coming our way assuming Scott goes, we’ve given ourselves a platform to build on next season. If Luton and Coventry can get there, so can we. We should use it as a source of inspiration, not bitterness.

Cannot it not be both?

First up, it's a joke, a wheeze. Second, it's a joke and a howl at the moon. Howling at the moon, or in modern parlance, a great big: FFS! 

Have you seen Cov's team? And squad?

They take Kasey bleedin' Palmer off us - the Poster Boy of Bristol City's "cosy club" easy-wage waster, clueless club, nonsense - and end up in the Play offs final. Ffs! You couldn't make it up.

They've got Liam Kelly anchoring midfield - ffs! There's us fretting and whimpering about Alex Scott going, and what we gonna do, and how we gonna cope (Bristol City learned helplessness coursing through our veins), pathetic! How have Cov managed without Alex Scott?

And Cov's owners - the much reviled Sisu or whatever they're called. While we have the greatly respected Steve Lansdown. "How will we cope/be careful what you wish for" whispers and whines otib as the prospect of SL shuffling off this mortal football club nears every day/week/month/transfer window. Who knew you could do well with vile owners? Ffs!

And Cov's nomadic existence. And Luton's crap ground. Who knew you could compete in the Championship without a £50m refurb, or a concourse, or five middle aged blokes playing Guns n bleedin Roses (badly) at an ear-splitting volume right next to yer ear'ole on a small platform before the game while you're trying to make your way to the turnt-stiles and have a quiet moan to yer mate about Lansdown/Kasey Palmer/Marlon Pack? Like what we used to do, when AG was AG.

And then there's the lump that is Kyle Mc bleedin Fanzine - who knew you could defend adequately in the Championship and finish in the top six then keep two clean sheets in a play off semi against a "much fancied" opponent and the division's second highest scorers with a slow, lumbering lower division relic that looked slow and lumbering last time we were in L1 and was plucked from Burton blinkin Albion? 

Who knew you could do all this without going to Chelsea and giving them £8m - eight million - and spending C****t (or Mr Popodopolous) knows how many more millions on wages for a bloke to hang around at the back stopping the opposition from scoring when they want. Who knew that? Not Steve Lansdown, I don't think.

Ffs!

 

We had been led to believe that you need Parachute payments, you need a fancy stadium, a High School Musical Performance Centre, a wage bill this and a budget that, and a coach with drones and new fangled techniques that take 35 training sessions to get anywhere near understanding his genius, and a cuddly home-grown owner not like them dodgy overseas ones or them vile, capitalist in-it-fer-themselves hedge fund ones, that you need all manner of things, to "compete" at this level.

And it turnts out, it's just not true. You can even compete in this division with a spine of Kyle McFadzean and Liam Kelly, and Kasey Palmer on yer physio's couch; or in a shitty little old ground, with crowds a touch bigger than The Few's.

 

And it makes you/some want to scream: Ffs! 

 

That's this thread. Sort of.

 

 

 

[beaverface]

4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

We used to feel great about getting out of the third flight and playing in the second one.  It's a mark of where the club is now that we've enjoyed 8 seasons now at this level and are about to enjoy a ninth, with more possibility of a play-off finish than a relegation battle. 

I always feel that promotion from the 3rd division up to the 2nd feels a lot more euphoric as there's always that chance that the winning\crest of a wave will continue in the higher division. Inevitably for us it doesn't, but it feels a lot more hopeful than being in the same division year in year out.

 

ps. Im not advocating going down, I'm just comparing the feeling of coming up vs already being in the division. As they say, it's the hope that kills you !!

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, beaverface said:

I always feel that promotion from the 3rd division up to the 2nd feels a lot more euphoric as there's always that chance that the winning\crest of a wave will continue in the higher division. Inevitably for us it doesn't, but it feels a lot more hopeful than being in the same division year in year out.

 

ps. Im not advocating going down, I'm just comparing the feeling of coming up vs already being in the division. As they say, it's the hope that kills you !!

 

I know whatcha mean, but just look at the ex-league clubs now trading in the Conference (or below). 'Twas only a few years ago we were playing some of them (and losing to them sometimes!)  There were some grim old days for City fans in the 80s and 90s...

[RedM]

3 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Both those teams massively reliant on loans from Prem teams. 

Players they no longer have and may not be able to replace.

Both have had great seasons and have played some  excellent football but let's wait and see if they can do so again.

Indeed. It's true there is often a slump after almost getting there, or they may kick on and go that step further, anything could happen.

Yes I realise they were heavily reliant on their loan players, it could be that they will attract decent loans again as they had a successful season from a loan players point of view.

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, RedM said:

Indeed. It's true there is often a slump after almost getting there, or they may kick on and go that step further, anything could happen.

Yes I realise they were heavily reliant on their loan players, it could be that they will attract decent loans again as they had a successful season from a loan players point of view.

 

One thing's for sure, in just over a week one set of supporters will be feeling as miserable as we did in 2008. To come so close but fall short surely sets yourself up for a more depressing summer than the one we have. 

[Lrrr]

Personally I think one of Coventry and Luton going up is a great advert for the EFL, the ability to reach the PL in several seasons without a big financial backer shows that it can be done the right way and theres no reason teams in League 2 at the moment who're in a good place (thinking Bradford who get 20,000 fans) could at least progress to the championship in a couple of seasons.

[Sweeneys Penalties]

14 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Where were Cov and Luton in 2018 when Lee and Ashton were here, signing Liam thingy and Louis Dionky and Ryan K***,, making us a PL club in waiting?

In the 4th bloody division. Ffs.

Understand what you are saying but I'll take a longer view. Sunderland were relegated from the Premier League in 2018. I have a friend who is a long standing ST holder at the Stadium of Light. I texted her "see you again next season then Ange" the response "we were well and truly battered last night and would be like a lamb to the slaughter if we went back to the Premier League". 

 

Not sure I want City in the "lamb to the slaughter" category tbh. 

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Cannot it not be both?

First up, it's a joke, a wheeze. Second, it's a joke and a howl at the moon. Howling at the moon, or in modern parlance, a great big: FFS! 

Have you seen Cov's team? And squad?

They take Kasey bleedin' Palmer off us - the Poster Boy of Bristol City's "cosy club" easy-wage waster, clueless club, nonsense - and end up in the Play offs final. Ffs! You couldn't make it up.

They've got Liam Kelly anchoring midfield - ffs! There's us fretting and whimpering about Alex Scott going, and what we gonna do, and how we gonna cope (Bristol City learned helplessness coursing through our veins), pathetic! How have Cov managed without Alex Scott?

And Cov's owners - the much reviled Sisu or whatever they're called. While we have the greatly respected Steve Lansdown. "How will we cope/be careful what you wish for" whispers and whines otib as the prospect of SL shuffling off this mortal football club nears every day/week/month/transfer window. Who knew you could do well with vile owners? Ffs!

And Cov's nomadic existence. And Luton's crap ground. Who knew you could compete in the Championship without a £50m refurb, or a concourse, or five middle aged blokes playing Guns n bleedin Roses (badly) at an ear-splitting volume right next to yer ear'ole on a small platform before the game while you're trying to make your way to the turnt-stiles and have a quiet moan to yer mate about Lansdown/Kasey Palmer/Marlon Pack? Like what we used to do, when AG was AG.

And then there's the lump that is Kyle Mc bleedin Fanzine - who knew you could defend adequately in the Championship and finish in the top six then keep two clean sheets in a play off semi against a "much fancied" opponent and the division's second highest scorers with a slow, lumbering lower division relic that looked slow and lumbering last time we were in L1 and was plucked from Burton blinkin Albion? 

Who knew you could do all this without going to Chelsea and giving them £8m - eight million - and spending C****t (or Mr Popodopolous) knows how many more millions on wages for a bloke to hang around at the back stopping the opposition from scoring when they want. Who knew that? Not Steve Lansdown, I don't think.

Ffs!

 

We had been led to believe that you need Parachute payments, you need a fancy stadium, a High School Musical Performance Centre, a wage bill this and a budget that, and a coach with drones and new fangled techniques that take 35 training sessions to get anywhere near understanding his genius, and a cuddly home-grown owner not like them dodgy overseas ones or them vile, capitalist in-it-fer-themselves hedge fund ones, that you need all manner of things, to "compete" at this level.

And it turnts out, it's just not true. You can even compete in this division with a spine of Kyle McFadzean and Liam Kelly, and Kasey Palmer on yer physio's couch; or in a shitty little old ground, with crowds a touch bigger than The Few's.

 

And it makes you/some want to scream: Ffs! 

 

That's this thread. Sort of.

 

 

 

And Kasey Palmer has done well for them. Because they bought him for, and consistently played him in, a role that played to his strengths as a player.

Thats a lesson we have taken a long time to learn - and I’m still not 100% convinced we have. 

Good post though: yep, sums up the frustration!

Edited May 18, 2023 by italian dave

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Cannot it not be both?

First up, it's a joke, a wheeze. Second, it's a joke and a howl at the moon. Howling at the moon, or in modern parlance, a great big: FFS! 

Have you seen Cov's team? And squad?

They take Kasey bleedin' Palmer off us - the Poster Boy of Bristol City's "cosy club" easy-wage waster, clueless club, nonsense - and end up in the Play offs final. Ffs! You couldn't make it up.

They've got Liam Kelly anchoring midfield - ffs! There's us fretting and whimpering about Alex Scott going, and what we gonna do, and how we gonna cope (Bristol City learned helplessness coursing through our veins), pathetic! How have Cov managed without Alex Scott?

And Cov's owners - the much reviled Sisu or whatever they're called. While we have the greatly respected Steve Lansdown. "How will we cope/be careful what you wish for" whispers and whines otib as the prospect of SL shuffling off this mortal football club nears every day/week/month/transfer window. Who knew you could do well with vile owners? Ffs!

And Cov's nomadic existence. And Luton's crap ground. Who knew you could compete in the Championship without a £50m refurb, or a concourse, or five middle aged blokes playing Guns n bleedin Roses (badly) at an ear-splitting volume right next to yer ear'ole on a small platform before the game while you're trying to make your way to the turnt-stiles and have a quiet moan to yer mate about Lansdown/Kasey Palmer/Marlon Pack? Like what we used to do, when AG was AG.

And then there's the lump that is Kyle Mc bleedin Fanzine - who knew you could defend adequately in the Championship and finish in the top six then keep two clean sheets in a play off semi against a "much fancied" opponent and the division's second highest scorers with a slow, lumbering lower division relic that looked slow and lumbering last time we were in L1 and was plucked from Burton blinkin Albion? 

Who knew you could do all this without going to Chelsea and giving them £8m - eight million - and spending C****t (or Mr Popodopolous) knows how many more millions on wages for a bloke to hang around at the back stopping the opposition from scoring when they want. Who knew that? Not Steve Lansdown, I don't think.

Ffs!

 

We had been led to believe that you need Parachute payments, you need a fancy stadium, a High School Musical Performance Centre, a wage bill this and a budget that, and a coach with drones and new fangled techniques that take 35 training sessions to get anywhere near understanding his genius, and a cuddly home-grown owner not like them dodgy overseas ones or them vile, capitalist in-it-fer-themselves hedge fund ones, that you need all manner of things, to "compete" at this level.

And it turnts out, it's just not true. You can even compete in this division with a spine of Kyle McFadzean and Liam Kelly, and Kasey Palmer on yer physio's couch; or in a shitty little old ground, with crowds a touch bigger than The Few's.

 

And it makes you/some want to scream: Ffs! 

 

That's this thread. Sort of.

 

 

 

You needed that

[Roger Red Hat]

15 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Where were Cov and Luton in 2018 when Lee and Ashton were here, signing Liam thingy and Louis Dionky and Ryan K***,, making us a PL club in waiting?

In the 4th bloody division. Ffs.

Millions of people have died in a pandemic since that time. I'm still here and not feeling too bad.

[Tinmans Love Child]

5 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Following your logic there then, it must be the case that, prior to their promotion about 4 or 5 years ago, Brighton had a "top flight pedigree" that "we don't have" ?

And the same for Brentford? 

What's logic got to do with it, it's facts!  When did we drop out the top flight 79/80,  Cov at that point had been in the top flight for 12 years and stayed for another 22 seasons after we bombed down the leagues never to return.  That's 33 top flight seasons, we had 4 in the 70's and 6 back in the day?  I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here if I'm being honest.

Re: Brighton their top flight record is currently 10 years in 2 spells (same as us) but all have come more recently than ours so we can call it a draw with them if you like (not that I mentioned them in this debate) and say neither of us have 'top flight pedigree'.

Re: Brentford, again I didn't mention them, but as you did, I would say they don't have 'top flight pedigree' as they only have 3 seasons I think in their history in the top flight.

Even Luton match us with 10 years in the top flight, and these were all also after we bombed out, so hardly 'top flight pedigree' but as good as us, and you could argue better, especially with a League Cup win.

If I'm out on the stats then happy to be corrected

Edited May 18, 2023 by Tinmans Love Child

[supercidered]

16 hours ago, East Londoner said:

But saying that the money they could potentially make finances potential new stadiums and sets them up for the future 

Wrong thread EL.

This should be on the Bristol R*vers Dustbin thread.

[Son of Fred]

34 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

See what we do next season, not get caught up in look at what you could have won 

[LoyalRed]

16 hours ago, Coxy27 said:

That gets said every year and almost never happens

As does "We've put ourselves into a good place for next season."

[REDOXO]

16 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Id put money on wrexham… we couldnt have been run and managed shitter over the last 45 years if we tried.

Fixed!

[Bristol Oil Services]

2 hours ago, italian dave said:

And Kasey Palmer has done well for them. Because they bought him for, and consistently played him in, a role that played to his strengths as a player.

Thats a lesson we have taken a long time to learn - and I’m still not 100% convinced we have. 

Good post though: yep, sums up the frustration!

It's frustrating, thank you Italian Dave.

Italian Dave gives a Master Class here in understated, calm emotional regulation. Any parents of children look at my emotional outpouring/diaorhea and then see I-tie Dave's cool "there, there; now, now" response, nailing all the feeling and the outpouring and the wailing and g-nashing of teeth with one word: frustration.

That's how you do it, folks. Italian Dave sits down beside me and listens quietly whilst I rant/spout shite, stroking my shoulder, then naming the feeling.

 

Italian Dave: "There, there Bristol Oil, I know it's frustrating supporting Bristol City. Worse things happen at the Rovers mind, you dry yer eyes and Mrs Italian Dave will have yer tea ready."

Bristol Oil Services: "It’s so unfair, Dave. Luton, ffs!"

Italian Dave: "I know, I know. You eat yer tea up and I'll buy you an ice cream."

Bristol Oil Services: "Thanks Dad, er, Dave. We will get in the play offs won't we Dave?"

Italian Dave: "Course we will."

Bristol Oil Services curls up beside Italian Dave and falls asleep, and Italian Dave returns his gaze to OTIB. All is right with the world again. All is calm.

 

Love you, Italian Dave. Night, night.

 

[REDOXO]

5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

One assumes it'll be Luton going up. Coventry sort of crept in to the play-offs on the back of some good results late on, but Luton were more consistently impressive. Anyone's game though.

I don't think anyone should be downhearted though. We are moving in the right direction and are nearer the play-offs (10 points away) than relegation (15 away). Last season the play-offs were 20 points away and relegation 14; the one before the figures were 26 points off the play-offs, 7 points off relegation. 

I think the composition of the midfield that emerges after the summer will be key for us. It always seems that we lose a number of key battles there. 

If promoted Luton have to put 6-10m into the ground over the summer to make it Premier League standard. That’s a lot of work in a short period. I expect some games at Watford or MK Dons. 

[Tinmans Love Child]

11 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

If promoted Luton have to put 6-10m into the ground over the summer to make it Premier League standard. That’s a lot of work in a short period. I expect some games at Watford or MK Dons. 

Speak to Wael he can sort that in a few weeks no problem, and without planning!

[Red-Robbo]

28 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

If promoted Luton have to put 6-10m into the ground over the summer to make it Premier League standard. That’s a lot of work in a short period. I expect some games at Watford or MK Dons. 

 

Good point.  Kennilworth Road is such a dump, I'm surprised they can bring it up to modern standards even spending that much. 

[Red_Alligator]

Yep, I share your frustration, and spent a little time reflecting on this last night. I'll always maintain that we should have got to the top flight in the first few seasons of SL's tenure, using the tried and tested methods employed by the likes of Reading, Wigan and others, be they fair, moral or otherwise. 

I genuinely thought that that was the plan, at a time in football when FFP meant nothing,  and acquiring an extremely wealthy owner almost universally led to cries of "well that's them in the Premier League in two or three seasons then..." I'm sure that I wasn't alone in thinking that was "the plan". 

But, that's the way it goes and although I don't have any strong feelings about either Luton or Coventry, I'll wish them both well for the final. 

Let's hope that the footballing gods choose to smile on BCFC next season.

Enjoy the summer my fellow Reds!!

OTIB

COYR!

 

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Good point.  Kennilworth Road is such a dump, I'm surprised they can bring it up to modern standards even spending that much. 

Me too! I was listening to commentary on Talk Shite and they mentioned it a few times. 
 

aApparently ‘there is no appetite to to put money in the pockets Of MK Dons’ but realistically I don’t see much of a choice but to go somewhere. 
 

From what was said all those windows With hospitality areas have to go for starters. Luton have already asked that they begin their season with a minimum of two away games. 
 

Watch this space I reckon!