Anyone want to feel absolutely miserable this evening (and all summer)?

[Tinmans Love Child]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Me too! I was listening to commentary on Talk Shite and they mentioned it a few times. 
 

aApparently ‘there is no appetite to to put money in the pockets Of MK Dons’ but realistically I don’t see much of a choice but to go somewhere. 
 

From what was said all those windows With hospitality areas have to go for starters. Luton have already asked that they begin their season with a minimum of two away games. 
 

Watch this space I reckon! 

Looking at the footprint of Kenilworth Rd, there is not much they can do in terms of size of ground, so anything they will do will be pretty cosmetic to appease the Prem rules on stadium quality 

[Tinmans Love Child]

having a quick google, the only requirement I can see that impacts Luton if they get promoted is that Prem and Championship stadiums must be all seater (safe standing excluded I assume?).  Obviously all seater was also a requirement in the Championship but I assume you get a period of time to implement?

Requirements for football stadiums

Nowadays, the following conditions must be adhered to by all football stadiums throughout the country:

• Premiership and Championship stadiums must be all-seated;
• there must be appropriate segregation of rival sets of supporters;
• there must be appropriate amounts of stewards in specific areas of the stadiums;
• there must be adequate car-parking at or near the ground;
• access for emergency services should be provided;
• there should be adequate toilet facilities;
• all clubs must provide first aid equipment at their ground;
• all dressing rooms for players and match officials must be secure and suitable for purpose;
• all exits must be clearly signposted and where fixed exit points are provided, there must be sufficient to ensure the safe evacuation of the ground if necessary;
• the smoking ban extends to all areas of a football stadium – Smoke-free (Premises and Enforcement) Regulation 2006;
• no alcohol can be drunk in sight of the pitch.

[REDOXO]

5 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Looking at the footprint of Kenilworth Rd, there is not much they can do in terms of size of ground, so anything they will do will be pretty cosmetic to appease the Prem rules on stadium quality 

Exactly. They break ground on a new ground in a year Talk Sport reckoned. This money will be poured down the khazi 

[maxjak]

If SL had not allowed Ashton to think he had won the lottery, kept a eye on our absurd budget plan (Plan?  Ha!!),  and attempted to appoint a decent manager (Mr Robins anyone?) then  maybe   we would now, be NOT   looking in envy at the likes of Luton FC?   For all SL's wonderful benevolence, (and his generosity, if at times misplaced, has been quite exceptional)......we might well of been better off with an owner who knew how to appoint the right staff?   Still hindsight is a wonderful excuse, and at least it's not raining?   PS.   And maybe, just maybe, SL may have finally, after numerous attempts, appointed the correct manager?     

[phantom]

49 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

If promoted Luton have to put 6-10m into the ground over the summer to make it Premier League standard. That’s a lot of work in a short period. I expect some games at Watford or MK Dons. 

I heard that referenced, but any idea what it actually accounts to?

I would imagine large costs would be getting the ground fit for VAR etc, increase in floodlight strength?

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

having a quick google, the only requirement I can see that impacts Luton if they get promoted is that Prem and Championship stadiums must be all seater (safe standing excluded I assume?).  Obviously all seater was also a requirement in the Championship but I assume you get a period of time to implement?

Requirements for football stadiums

Nowadays, the following conditions must be adhered to by all football stadiums throughout the country:

• Premiership and Championship stadiums must be all-seated;
• there must be appropriate segregation of rival sets of supporters;
• there must be appropriate amounts of stewards in specific areas of the stadiums;
• there must be adequate car-parking at or near the ground;
• access for emergency services should be provided;
• there should be adequate toilet facilities;
• all clubs must provide first aid equipment at their ground;
• all dressing rooms for players and match officials must be secure and suitable for purpose;
• all exits must be clearly signposted and where fixed exit points are provided, there must be sufficient to ensure the safe evacuation of the ground if necessary;
• the smoking ban extends to all areas of a football stadium – Smoke-free (Premises and Enforcement) Regulation 2006;
• no alcohol can be drunk in sight of the pitch.

Not sure what to tell you, but it was an extended topic on Talk Sports coverage of the Sunderland game

[SouthStandSteve]

When I was a banner we used to get the number 4 bus into Coventry - those were the times 

[Bris Red]

2 hours ago, Red_Alligator said:

Yep, I share your frustration, and spent a little time reflecting on this last night. I'll always maintain that we should have got to the top flight in the first few seasons of SL's tenure, using the tried and tested methods employed by the likes of Reading, Wigan and others, be they fair, moral or otherwise. 

I genuinely thought that that was the plan, at a time in football when FFP meant nothing,  and acquiring an extremely wealthy owner almost universally led to cries of "well that's them in the Premier League in two or three seasons then..." I'm sure that I wasn't alone in thinking that was "the plan". 

But, that's the way it goes and although I don't have any strong feelings about either Luton or Coventry, I'll wish them both well for the final. 

Let's hope that the footballing gods choose to smile on BCFC next season.

Enjoy the summer my fellow Reds!!

OTIB

COYR!

 

Great post and my thoughts exactly. Even in 2007/08 when at that juncture we still weren’t bound by FFP Steve Lansdown still it seemed wanted to adopt a more conservative cautious approach to things when in reality a bit more heavy investment in that era probably would have seen us over the line and getting to the Premier League.

Im fully in agreement and also think its the early years of Lansdown’s ownership here that IMO has cemented the fact that for me that he hasn’t ‘wanted’ it enough. I think it has all been mainly soundbites from Steve about wanting to get to the Prem and now in recent years he has had the FFP to hide behind/use as an excuse.

Its frustrating and of course it is ‘his club and he can do what he likes’ (his words not mine remember) but when you look at other clubs as you pointed out Reading and Wigan being good examples and Brighton more recently with Mr Bloom, it all points to unfortunately our owner being fairly content with Championship football and never really wanting to push the boat out and go for it.

Fair play to Luton and Cov, yes we are in a better place off the field no doubt than both of them but it’s on the pitch that matters and it will be another club that we will see reach the Premier League before us in the last 2 decades or so.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Bris Red

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Red_Alligator said:

Yep, I share your frustration, and spent a little time reflecting on this last night. I'll always maintain that we should have got to the top flight in the first few seasons of SL's tenure, using the tried and tested methods employed by the likes of Reading, Wigan and others, be they fair, moral or otherwise. 

I genuinely thought that that was the plan, at a time in football when FFP meant nothing,  and acquiring an extremely wealthy owner almost universally led to cries of "well that's them in the Premier League in two or three seasons then..." I'm sure that I wasn't alone in thinking that was "the plan". 

Agreed.

I'm trying to think if there's another club with a billionaire owner that continues to under achieve quite like we do.

In 1982 as the club went bust, if someone had said that 40 years later we'd be owned by a billionaire but still hadn't returned to the top flight, you'd have laughed out loud.

And yet here we are.

Frustrating, indeed.    

[italian dave]

4 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

It's frustrating, thank you Italian Dave.

Italian Dave gives a Master Class here in understated, calm emotional regulation. Any parents of children look at my emotional outpouring/diaorhea and then see I-tie Dave's cool "there, there; now, now" response, nailing all the feeling and the outpouring and the wailing and g-nashing of teeth with one word: frustration.

That's how you do it, folks. Italian Dave sits down beside me and listens quietly whilst I rant/spout shite, stroking my shoulder, then naming the feeling.

 

Italian Dave: "There, there Bristol Oil, I know it's frustrating supporting Bristol City. Worse things happen at the Rovers mind, you dry yer eyes and Mrs Italian Dave will have yer tea ready."

Bristol Oil Services: "It’s so unfair, Dave. Luton, ffs!"

Italian Dave: "I know, I know. You eat yer tea up and I'll buy you an ice cream."

Bristol Oil Services: "Thanks Dad, er, Dave. We will get in the play offs won't we Dave?"

Italian Dave: "Course we will."

Bristol Oil Services curls up beside Italian Dave and falls asleep, and Italian Dave returns his gaze to OTIB. All is right with the world again. All is calm.

 

Love you, Italian Dave. Night, night.

 

You’re too kind

I’d also like to make the point that all three of the relegated sides this season…..heading for the dubious pleasure of a trip to the Mem next season……are teams that have played in the Premier League. Something we’ve never achieved. Barely a decade ago two of them - Blackpool and Wigan - met on the opening day of the PL season.

I’m not sure quite what that proves……but maybe a reassuring thought as we cement our Championship mid-table mediocrity! 

[ExiledAjax]

29 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Blackpool and Wigan...I’m not sure quite what that proves……

That there is something to be said for stable if unspectacular ownership. 

[View from the Dolman]

4 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

having a quick google, the only requirement I can see that impacts Luton if they get promoted is that Prem and Championship stadiums must be all seater (safe standing excluded I assume?).  Obviously all seater was also a requirement in the Championship but I assume you get a period of time to implement?

Requirements for football stadiums

Nowadays, the following conditions must be adhered to by all football stadiums throughout the country:

• Premiership and Championship stadiums must be all-seated;
• there must be appropriate segregation of rival sets of supporters;
• there must be appropriate amounts of stewards in specific areas of the stadiums;
• there must be adequate car-parking at or near the ground;
• access for emergency services should be provided;
• there should be adequate toilet facilities;
• all clubs must provide first aid equipment at their ground;
• all dressing rooms for players and match officials must be secure and suitable for purpose;
• all exits must be clearly signposted and where fixed exit points are provided, there must be sufficient to ensure the safe evacuation of the ground if necessary;
• the smoking ban extends to all areas of a football stadium – Smoke-free (Premises and Enforcement) Regulation 2006;
• no alcohol can be drunk in sight of the pitch.

There's reference to the various requirements in the EFL regulations, appendix 1 - https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/efl-regulations/appendix-1-membership-criteria-regulation-8/

 

[ExiledAjax]

59 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

There's reference to the various requirements in the EFL regulations, appendix 1 - https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/efl-regulations/appendix-1-membership-criteria-regulation-8/

 

Also says that even whilst in the Championship you have to have "fully costed proposals" setting out how you achieve these. So the cost should be no surprise to Luton and they should really be fine of they go up. Busy summer sure, but fine generally.

[downendcity]

Back to the thread title, I'd hazard a guess that the answer is every Posh fan! 

[Bristol Oil Services]

22 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Keiran Maguire (the football finance guy) sums the recipe for success in football up as: resources, opportunity, execution.

You need to have the resources - financial wriggle room, income and control of outgoings, the opportunity - a division that opens up, the right squad at the right time, and then you have to have the right people making good decisions and executing your plan.

We've had/have a few of these things in place, but not all at once. Opportunity has always been there. Resources are now in place after a few years of a rebuild. Execution is now key.

I'd say "opportunity" in this division might mean seasons - and they don't always occur but they do every now and again - where the Parachute Payment clubs are in a muddle or even a mess and not going to finish top six. Like this season. Clubs like us then just need to be ready, top half, "there or thereabouts."

But we were miles off, still addressing the muddle and mistakes of the Ashton nonsense. 

 

 

[ExiledAjax]

42 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

I'd say "opportunity" in this division might mean seasons - and they don't always occur but they do every now and again - where the Parachute Payment clubs are in a muddle or even a mess and not going to finish top six. Like this season. Clubs like us then just need to be ready, top half, "there or thereabouts."

But we were miles off, still addressing the muddle and mistakes of the Ashton nonsense. 

Technically we have an "opportuntiy" every season, but you're right that some seasons are more opportune than others - the classic for me is when Leicester won the Premier League. Most of the big teams were, for one reason or another, off their game that season and Leicester struck while the iron was hot.

Essentially when we were under LJ/Ashton we had resources and opportunity but the decision making wasn't there.

Then in the years since we have had better decision making, opportunity has been there, but we've been unable to bring our resources to bear because we have been hamstrung by the aforementioned decision making.

Hopefully in 23/24 and 24/25 we might finally see the three things align. People seem to think opportunity will be less next season, but for me it's the least important of the three. Deploy strong resources through good decision making and you can turn a slim opportunity into success.

Of course there is a fourth, unpredictable, elusive, and tempting mistress to tame - lady luck. Get her on your side and away you go. 

[Red_Alligator]

16 hours ago, Bris Red said:

Great post and my thoughts exactly. Even in 2007/08 when at that juncture we still weren’t bound by FFP Steve Lansdown still it seemed wanted to adopt a more conservative cautious approach to things when in reality a bit more heavy investment in that era probably would have seen us over the line and getting to the Premier League.

Im fully in agreement and also think its the early years of Lansdown’s ownership here that IMO has cemented the fact that for me that he hasn’t ‘wanted’ it enough. I think it has all been mainly soundbites from Steve about wanting to get to the Prem and now in recent years he has had the FFP to hide behind/use as an excuse.

Its frustrating and of course it is ‘his club and he can do what he likes’ (his words not mine remember) but when you look at other clubs as you pointed out Reading and Wigan being good examples and Brighton more recently with Mr Bloom, it all points to unfortunately our owner being fairly content with Championship football and never really wanting to push the boat out and go for it.

Fair play to Luton and Cov, yes we are in a better place off the field no doubt than both of them but it’s on the pitch that matters and it will be another club that we will see reach the Premier League before us in the last 2 decades or so.

Yes, and I can't help but feel that we, the fans have been a lot less demanding than fans at other clubs might be. Of course we all acknowledge the impact that SL has had on our club (and indeed sport in Bristol if your tastes are broader than football). BUT, wasn't the original mission to get the football team into the Premier League as soon as possible?? Or am I mistaken? My memory is not as good as it was in what seems a long time ago. 

[Davefevs]

@Bristol Oil Services / @ExiledAjax the other thing we have in our favour is that we have people in situ who 1) know what the target (PL) looks like and 2) how to get there.  That is a bonus.  That’s from the CEO, to the Manager, through the coaches and down to an across some of the players too.

The ability to track whether you are on track or not is key.

Not being critical of LJ, because he almost got us into the playoffs, we certainly held playoff places for parts of the three seasons once we’d found our feet at this level.

If we ignore the first 10 games of a season where the table is still forming:

• 17/18 - 19 game weeks in the top 6
• 18/19 - 17
• 19/20 - 10

Maybe that lack of know-how was the missing ingredient.

[ExiledAjax]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Bristol Oil Services / @ExiledAjax the other thing we have in our favour is that we have people in situ who 1) know what the target (PL) looks like and 2) how to get there.  That is a bonus.  That’s from the CEO, to the Manager, through the coaches and down to an across some of the players too.

The ability to track whether you are on track or not is key.

Not being critical of LJ, because he almost got us into the playoffs, we certainly held playoff places for parts of the three seasons once we’d found our feet at this level.

If we ignore the first 10 games of a season where the table is still forming:

• 17/18 - 19 game weeks in the top 6
• 18/19 - 17
• 19/20 - 10

Maybe that lack of know-how was the missing ingredient.

It's interesting because I guess you look at those that have gone up this season and wonder whether this is so key?

I think the answer is that it's helpful for some clubs but not always necessary. Perhaps where we have been a little naive in the past it's something useful to us that might help us to get over the line next season or the one after.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's interesting because I guess you look at those that have gone up this season and wonder whether this is so key?

I think the answer is that it's helpful for some clubs but not always necessary. Perhaps where we have been a little naive in the past it's something useful to us that might help us to get over the line next season or the one after.

Yeah, not a one-size fits all by any stretch….but City have been in the wilderness for 45 years….and only a short stay then too.

[Red Exile]

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Not being critical of LJ, because he almost got us into the playoffs, we certainly held playoff places for parts of the three seasons once we’d found our feet at this level.

If we ignore the first 10 games of a season where the table is still forming:

• 17/18 - 19 game weeks in the top 6
• 18/19 - 17
• 19/20 - 10

Maybe that lack of know-how was the missing ingredient.

I was very critical of LJ, but equally of the man who appointed him. The lack of know-how was surely the missing ingredient. Correct me if I'm wrong but whatever other qualities LJ might have as a coach I don't recall him ever getting a side promoted...in, what, almost 500 matches as manager? Seems a remarkable act of faith to ask/expect someone with that track record to deliver on one of the harder tasks in world football. He's perhaps found his level in Scotland where Hibs will never be expected to win the title, will never be relegated, and as one of the big 5 clubs currently lie 5th.

As to the OP - excellent thread - highly entertaining contributions. Personally I'm enjoying City being a competitive Championship side led by someone who knows what they are doing and with a track record of achieving the goals they've presumably been set.

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Red Exile

[ExiledAjax]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah, not a one-size fits all by any stretch….but City have been in the wilderness for 45 years….and only a short stay then too.

IIRC once next season starts then this is our longest spell in the second tier for many decades. About 50 years I think.

We will also be I think the 4th longest serving Championship* team (behind Cardiff, Birmingham and Reading).

Those two things seem opposed to me. Compare to the historic level of our club it's a success to have almost a decade in the second tier (and really we've only very occasionally been seriously in danger of relegation). But I can simultaneously understand and to an extent share the frustration of having eight chances to finish high and to have never gone above 8th!

I of course hope our fortune changes positively soon, and then it will be about making it stick either as a premier league club a la Brighton, or at least to become part of the yo-yo club.

*Joint fourth with PNE who of course came up with us.

Edited May 19, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[ROSEBUD RED]

On 18/05/2023 at 07:19, Top Robin said:

As many of you know, I have felt miserable all season. 

Cov and Luton making the play off final just just reinforces how poor we have been this season - we weren't even close to them. 

You’ll will keep me smiling all summer, Top Robin, with your comedy gold

[North London Red]

41 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

We will also be I think the 4th longest serving Championship* team (behind Cardiff, Birmingham and Reading).

*Joint fourth with PNE who of course came up with us.

I believe we're joint second longest serving along with Preston and QPR. Cardiff were in the premier league in 2018-19 and Reading have just been relegated.  

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, North London Red said:

I believe we're joint second longest serving along with Preston and QPR. Cardiff were in the premier league in 2018-19 and Reading have just been relegated.  

Too speedy for me

[ExiledAjax]

42 minutes ago, North London Red said:

I believe we're joint second longest serving along with Preston and QPR. Cardiff were in the premier league in 2018-19 and Reading have just been relegated.  

One of those posts that I knew I'd got wrong but posted anyway. Thanks for correcting me.

That little relegation hadn't been put up on Wikipedia yet. And I like to pretend that Cardiff were never really in the PL

Are those excuses good enough for my innacuracy?

We all agree that Birmingham have been in the division longest though?

Edited May 19, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[The Bard]

On 18/05/2023 at 09:03, CrackingCheeseGromit said:

And Coventry were bottom of the table in October.

But with about 4 games in hand...  All at home

Edited May 19, 2023 by The Bard

[Super]

Surely what Cov and Luton have done gives us hope. This could easily be us with some good recruitment and a bit of luck next season (although it already looks a much tougher league)

[Bristol Oil Services]

5 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

Of course there is a fourth, unpredictable, elusive, and tempting mistress to tame - lady luck. Get her on your side and away you go. 

Yes, luck must be factored in. Often forget to mention this.

Thing is, we finished 14th and have bobbed around 17th - 14th most of the season. With a bit more luck, we might've finished 13th, or 12th. Not a lot of point.

Hence my earlier mention of the importance of being "there or thereabouts," ie within arm's length of 6th. And the other thing about that is, being there once (2018/19) in 8 seasons lengthens the odds on being in "luck," particularly if it's a season where those with money are up together and not floundering. 

To be in with a shout we need (or might need; Huddersfield didn't) two, three or four seasons in and around the play-offs at the business end of the season (January and February doesn't count), April and May.

Then we might get "lucky." By which I mean, finish 6th or higher, then have a chance.

Sadly, 2007/8 was a bit of a one-off/fluke. 2018/19 was more by design I would say, building on 2017/18. But both saw us drop away though from where we need to be to take real advantage of "luck." 2008 in particular seemed to be built on sand.

If or when this happens, and we are "lucky" enough to find ourselves in the play-offs then we will need yet more luck. Meaning we might need two, three or four cracks at the agony of the play-offs. 

It's SL's, and now Nige's, and the new CEO fella's, responsibility to manoeuvre us into a position where "luck" might make a big, criticao difference, give us the helping hand we need. We haven’t as yet done anything like enough to bemoan our own luck, or lack of it (other than with penalties).

[Fuber]

On 18/05/2023 at 05:43, Tinmans Love Child said:

In fact all 4 teams in the playoffs had no parachute payments at all did they?  

All increased their wage spending at the right time due to being well managed in general but especially around COVID to suite their own plans and progression. All have recruited well. Those relegated (especially Norwich and WBA) didn't reset their playing rosters enough when yoyoing, and are now paying the price. Webber for Norwich is their very own MA - his recruitment has been shocking and overpriced.

Sounds remarkably familiar.