Bristol City - Dark Horses?

[AshtonGreat]

'Long read' is a bit of a stretch - I think it took me less than two minutes

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I personally think this is a really harsh assessment of a season that saw the emergence of Cam Pring, Tommy Conway, Sam Bell, Zak Vyner, George Tanner and Max O'Leary, all into Championship level players, whilst continuing to increase the value of quite probably the most talented player this club has ever produced, and massively reducing our wage bill.  

Progress has different perspectives and league position is not the only marker for this.  I in no way see last season as a plateau.

Excellent reply Steve - like you I don’t last season as a plateau at all. For me it showed just how much City have gradually progressed under Nige. It’s real pleasure to see how a proper manager goes about rebuilding a very damaged football club step by step under difficult circumstances with a combination of youth and experience players.

I’m optimistic that this coming season will see us around the top end of the Championship with a realistic chance of reaching the Promised Land.

That said - I usually feel optimistic at the start of each season which has been based largely on false hope but this time my optimism is based on far more than just hope. 
 

[ExiledAjax]

32 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I personally think this is a really harsh assessment of a season that saw the emergence of Cam Pring, Tommy Conway, Sam Bell, Zak Vyner, George Tanner and Max O'Leary, all into Championship level players, whilst continuing to increase the value of quite probably the most talented player this club has ever produced, and massively reducing our wage bill.  

Progress has different perspectives and league position is not the only marker for this.  I in no way see last season as a plateau.

My full view (and apologies for not setting it out in full) is that we improved on last season and then plateaued at that new higher point. Essentially we climbed a flight of stairs, then sat on the landing for a bit. We've now got to see if we can scale the next flight.

That summary therefore does take account of the progress that you mention, but also notes that it didn't translate into a sustained improvement in performance.

I'm absolutely not someone who judges improvement/progress on league table position alone.

[TheReds]

39 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

'Long read' is a bit of a stretch - I think it took me less than two minutes

It was a long read for me as the text kept moving to different parts of my screen, with adverts being added on top of the text. Worse than the BP for adverts!

[TheReds]

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

My full view (and apologies for not setting it out in full) is that we improved on last season and then plateaued at that new higher point. Essentially we climbed a flight of stairs, then sat on the landing for a bit. We've now got to see if we can scale the next flight.

That summary therefore does take account of the progress that you mention, but also notes that it didn't translate into a sustained improvement in performance.

I'm absolutely not someone who judges improvement/progress on league table position alone.

Surely a lot of that that was simply down to our horrendous injury list and thin squad.  

[RedM]

16 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

Pretty much how I would guess it, except Stoke. Why are Stoke so high, what have i missed?

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Surely a lot of that that was simply down to our horrendous injury list and thin squad.  

It can be for whatever reason, but it still occurred.

Hence @Davefevs point that increased squad depth could help us overcome that plateau. I agree that's possible.

[AshtonGreat]

1 hour ago, TheReds said:

It was a long read for me as the text kept moving to different parts of my screen, with adverts being added on top of the text. Worse than the BP for adverts!

Oh man, I hate pop-ups. Renders a lot of web pages useless

[East Londoner]

2 hours ago, TomF said:

Saw the first reply to that tweet 

He has a Pearson tracker on his phone 

[Steve Watts]

46 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It can be for whatever reason, but it still occurred.

Hence @Davefevs point that increased squad depth could help us overcome that plateau. I agree that's possible.

You make fair points, however I would still sit on the side of not plateauing, but more improving in different ways/speed.  You can split the players I mentioned into different parts of the season.  Early on it was Tommy and Zak.  A little later came Cams improvement and Max's introduction, whilst the second half of the season saw Sammy and George.  We ended up in the same place, but I still see that as continued progression.  It's likely that our perceived improvement speed probably differs in that you have seen maybe a sharper increase to where we are now, whereas my viewpoint is more of a steady climb.

Either way I think we're both on the same page that the future is exciting to see where this group can really go when complimented by new arrivals and greater strength in depth.

[TheReds]

56 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It can be for whatever reason, but it still occurred.

Hence @Davefevs point that increased squad depth could help us overcome that plateau. I agree that's possible.

I don't think anyone would argue with that. All I am saying is there is a very valid reason why it happened. We were hardly going to keep up the improved trajectory with a fair few important players injured, and I think it is a bit of an unfair criticism, all things considered.

[Baba Yaga]

I thought in the 2nd half of the season that we had more than enough strength in depth in forward areas (too much at times it felt like with lots of chopping and changing) but they are still some way off in all the other areas for me because inevitably there will be injuries. Not an easy balancing act especially with budget constraints and without seeing who replaces Scott assuming he goes soon I don't really see how people see us as dark horses right now. With many teams of similar strength in the division I think we can beat anyone on our day but I just cannot see them having the consistency needed to challenge for the play offs.

[mozo]

2 hours ago, RedM said:

Pretty much how I would guess it, except Stoke. Why are Stoke so high, what have i missed?

On what basis should Sheffield Wednesday be shorter odds than us? I really dint get that. They barely got promoted from League 1 by the skin of their teeth, they done have money to spend, they dont have squad depth (sorry, Tyreeq) and they done have any virtuoso players.

[ExiledAjax]

47 minutes ago, TheReds said:

I don't think anyone would argue with that. All I am saying is there is a very valid reason why it happened. We were hardly going to keep up the improved trajectory with a fair few important players injured, and I think it is a bit of an unfair criticism, all things considered.

It's not meant as criticism, more just a statement of opinion. In my opinion we plateaued, but that was at a higher level than we were at 12 months ago, and I agree there were valid reasons for it.

That's not automatically a criticism or attack on Pearson or anyone else.

I'm actually quite content with how last season went, and always was through the season. I believe my posting history shows that.

Simultaneously I don't think it qualifies us as a definite "dark horse" for promotion. Any improvement is hoped for but not delivered and there's a huge amount of work to do. Again, I don't see such a statement as being an automatic criticism.

[mozo]

One question I have is are City a team full of players with potential to be high level Championship players, but not quite there yet in their development?

Or can they be the real deal, ie a team that relentlessly and consistently competes every game, and as a group show a winning mentality?

[OneTeamInBristol]

18 hours ago, Mr Hankey said:

I know it's very early days in the window  & a lot can happen ect ect..........but looking at that list of 24 teams, it really doesn't strike me as being a high quality league this season, seems very open & all teams relatively evenly matched.

It's the opposite for me, I think there will be 10 or so teams who will all be expected to finish in the play offs or above.

On paper the 24 teams look much stronger than last season.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, mozo said:

One question I have is are City a team full of players with potential to be high level Championship players, but not quite there yet in their development?

Or can they be the real deal, ie a team that relentlessly and consistently competes every game, and as a group show a winning mentality?

Good Q….we will find out by this time next year

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Good Q….we will find out by this time next year

It feels to me like we're still a year away from the stage of evolution required to be any kind promotion candidates, and for it to come in the 2023/24 season it will take an astonishing gathering of momentum, a bucket load of luck and some playoff drama. For us to be labelled dark horses I think confidence has to be a bit higher than that!

[RedM]

41 minutes ago, mozo said:

On what basis should Sheffield Wednesday be shorter odds than us? I really dint get that. They barely got promoted from League 1 by the skin of their teeth, they done have money to spend, they dont have squad depth (sorry, Tyreeq) and they done have any virtuoso players.

Agreed, but I took it to be the momentum thing.

[BrizzleRed]

51 minutes ago, mozo said:

On what basis should Sheffield Wednesday be shorter odds than us? I really dint get that. They barely got promoted from League 1 by the skin of their teeth, they done have money to spend, they dont have squad depth (sorry, Tyreeq) and they done have any virtuoso players.

To be fair to Wednesday, they may have only got promoted via the play-off’s, but don’t forget they were only 3 points short of our points haul when we finished as Champions under Cotts.  

They pushed the top right to the end, so can’t be too shabby.

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Coventry literally had something like 4 or 5 loan players that have now all departed. Their 3 best players have 12 months left on their contracts. They have to rebuild half their team, I'd not call that shrewd.

Cov got to the final based on momentum and luck. We all know momentum and can take you a very long way in football but it's only a short term thing. 

I actually think Coventry will struggle down near the bottom next season due to the departures and a play off hang over and fans expectations. 

Could go either way with Coventry IMO. A lot to replace but a lot of FFP headroom to do so and no longer owned by SISU so able financially do go that a bit more. Claims of £30m for Gykores given last year of contract feel well wide of the mark however!

[PHILINFRANCE]

4 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

My full view (and apologies for not setting it out in full) is that we improved on last season and then plateaued at that new higher point. Essentially we climbed a flight of stairs, then sat on the landing for a bit. We've now got to see if we can scale the next flight.

That summary therefore does take account of the progress that you mention, but also notes that it didn't translate into a sustained improvement in performance.

I'm absolutely not someone who judges improvement/progress on league table position alone.

What a wonderful analogy.

Almost as an aside, I tend to agree with your overall analysis.

[AshtonRobin21]

The groundwork for this seasons squad has been set. The additions in defence of Dickie, McCrorie and potentially Roberts look to make us much harder to beat. There is now decent competition amongst our back-line.

My impression is that these deals were always our priority this summer. I feel additional business could centre around Alex Scott’s future.

If he were to leave for a big fee, I can see us reinforcing our centre midfield, and possibly a striker arriving (Conways goals alone might not be enough).

Overall, we look much stronger on paper. We look to have much more depth in certain positions, and the ability to rotate without weakening the starting 11.

Im excited for the season ahead.

[Swede]

20 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

I am optimistic that we will have a good season and this is based on three points;

1] The calibre of manager we have.

2] The Backroom staff we now have in place.

3] The financial shackles we were working under have been virtually cleared.

 

With Nige he's got all of the experience we need for this league. He understands the financial considerations that have to be taken into account. He's building a squad where the team is more important than any individual. He's not phased by what a player costs, its all about the team. He's very honest with players and says it like it is. I think he relishes the challenge here as there's no interference from owners about player selection and he also knows he will be given the time to develope. On a separate note I was really impressed by the way Nige dealt with Nathan Baker's injury situation and subsequent sad retirement. The club also in honouring his contract.  Its easy to be critical but this is just further evidence that the club is making great strides.

The fitness and conditioning staff are extremely important in trying to minimising the amount of unavailability of players due to injury Certainly Joe Williams, as an example, has benefitted from these methods.

Having navigated through the financial black hole left from his predecessors, the players' contracts are pretty much back on level. This means he can bring in the right players early enough and the two signings just made are a real good indicator of this.

 

Initially I thought the league will be harder this year but there's quite a lot more for us to be positive about.

Leicester will loose a lot of players

Leeds are in disarray.

Southampton will be probably the best out of these three.

Blackburn have lost their best player.

Cov lost their loanees & possibly Gyokeres & Hamer will be off.

FFP issues for Swansea & possibly QPR

Cardiff another new manager with a transfer embargo & the on running legal dispute over the unfortunate Sala

Ipswich trying to offload a lot of players.

WBA without parachute payments & with a flakey owner I can see even more financial problems for them. 

Possible points deduction for Brum

I don't think anybody knows what's going on at Watford but the sale of Juao Pedro will certainly mean they will be a favourite this season.

[downendcity]

5 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

My full view (and apologies for not setting it out in full) is that we improved on last season and then plateaued at that new higher point. Essentially we climbed a flight of stairs, then sat on the landing for a bit. We've now got to see if we can scale the next flight.

........and while climbing the stairs we were simultaneously lifting the old worn out floor covering  and replacing it with new, more durable and suitable carpet.

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

On what basis should Sheffield Wednesday be shorter odds than us? I really dint get that. They barely got promoted from League 1 by the skin of their teeth, they done have money to spend, they dont have squad depth (sorry, Tyreeq) and they done have any virtuoso players.

Famous old club, with a famous old stadium and, crucially,  ex-premier league.

That, allied with the euphoria surrounding their miraculous comeback against Posh, would be sufficient to put them as shorter favourites than us, given the apparently shallow basis on which these things seem to be decided before players are even back in training and transfer business concluded.

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, Swede said:

On a separate note I was really impressed by the way Nige dealt with Nathan Baker's injury situation and subsequent sad retirement. The club also in honouring his contract.

Yes, very different to Derby who tried to sack Keogh (zero transfer value) “just” for getting into the car of a drunk-driver teammate (who had transfer value) who left him for dead, but no sacking considered of that player?

[Bazooka Joe]

13 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

I would expect Ipswich to spend big and really go for it, to try and capitalize on their momentum. It will be interesting to see how that works out with Ashton pulling the strings.

Starting with sixty pallets of Grecian2000 / Just for Men, a personal Ego Masseur, wall-to-wall mirrors for his office, and another top-of-the-range luxury German car for Merc Ashton.

Then, if any money is left over, probably another thirty, useless new signings.

[PHILINFRANCE]

52 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Famous old club, with a famous old stadium and, crucially,  ex-premier league.

That, allied with the euphoria surrounding their miraculous comeback against Posh, would be sufficient to put them as shorter favourites than us, given the apparently shallow basis on which these things seem to be decided before players are even back in training and transfer business concluded.

 

 

 

Or, perhaps, just a large, over enthusiastic fan base, happy to be back in the Championship and putting bets on getting out of it (in the right direction) straight away.

[big dosser]

over the moon with are 2 signings now we have some good strength and height, still think we need a tall commanding goalkeeper even though max does a sound job and and a strong midfielder captain type player, the man you want in the trenches with you,i feel we have missed this type of player for far to long.im  cautious but slightly confident we could be the dark horse especially if we keep young alex for another year.