SOD - the reappraisal

[pillred]

6 hours ago, SecretSam said:

I feel Sean O'Driscoll is not given the credit he deserves.

There, I've said it. This was triggered by reading the excellent article by Fred Dodgson in the last edition of OSIB, about the rebirth of the academy. SOD took over City at the absolute rock bottom, a horror show of a squad, zero youth development (for all his achievements, GJ almost paid no attention to youth development, for example), and a mess on the pitch. A succession of poor appointments following the end of the Johnson era, wasteful spending on 'name' players...you know the form.

Yes, City went down, and yes, that trajectory continued the next season - but SOD laid the foundations upon which Cott's promotion team was built: he brought in Pack and Flint for buttons, signed JET (who gets zero recognition, yet Jackie gets plaudits), and crucially supported the rebuilding of the academy.

Sure, he was a dour old soul, and City were in free-fall: but the decline had already started, and in his short time he actually started the rebuilding from which City still benefit today.

A slightly rose-tinted view, it's as if the passing of time (being a great healer) has let you forget just how awful we were under him, yes there were some excuses that could be made but I truly believe him to be one of if not the worse manager we have ever had and there are a lot of candidates for that accolade, he wasn't just a dour old soul he was completely without personality.

[pillred]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

SoD didn’t have enough time, largely due to his awkward personality.

And the performances and results.

[Curr Avon]

6 hours ago, petehinton said:

There’s a massive correlation. Upgrade in cat academy

The applicants are definitely better qualified.

[SecretSam]

3 hours ago, SuperDziek said:

Interesting topic for debate.

Heres a list of players signed by SOD for us:

Brendan Moloney

Brian Howard

Jordan Wynter

Aden Flint

Derrick Williams

Frank Fielding

JET

Scott Wagstaff

elliott Parrish

Marlon Harewood

Marlon Pack

Nicky Shorey

Proper mixed bag that. Probably a 50/50 split between the good and the bad/ugly.

football under him was dire and we were definitely heading into League 2 under him. 
 

but he inherited a lot of dross from McInnes and had to clear the decks, and SC definitely benefitted from that. 

As in...the basis of Cott's promotion team?

[And Its Smith]

2 hours ago, 2015 said:

City were an absolute shambles by the time SOD took over.

We had way overachieved in 2007/08 with the squad we had. It started in January 2008 with the signing of Adebola which effected our style of play to a more direct approach. We then became pragmatic with signings instead of thinking long term - only Maynard was a signing made that was really a thought of the future. We didn't improve on what we had and instead were signing journeymen every season.

When both McInnes and SOD took over we had a hugely bloated squad of players signed by 3 different Managers and with no long term strategy to improve the club SOD was always up against it. Although results in League 1 were poor he did sign most of the squad which got us Promoted. He laid the foundations down for the scouting and academy. Unfortunately many of our 'fans' want a happy go lucky type of Manager to please their minds.

There's so much that goes on behind the scenes than just the results. Football has evolved from the 1980s. City fell behind rivals because of this mindset and now we are reaping the rewards for taking a more long term approach, which SOD had said needed to happen.

Why do you write ‘fans’?  Because they don’t agree with you they aren’t real fans? 

Edited July 14, 2023 by And Its Smith

[Offside]

I don’t doubt that SOD started sowing the seeds behind the scenes for our upturn under Cotts and we were certainly in a mess when he took over. Some of those players he inherited were truly dreadful. 

But our performances on the pitch and league position when SOD was in charge were abysmal. 

[SecretSam]

6 hours ago, Ron W said:

@Petehinton I can't find anything online from SO'D talking about the academy but if that's true, good on him. From the majority of roles he's held since leaving us you'd think both he and the clubs employing him think an academy role is far more suited to him, but equally when you're being paid as a first-team head coach, that doesn't make up for the results (and football) he served up.

OSIB had a whole article about it. That's what triggered my post.

[SuperDziek]

9 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

As in...the basis of Cott's promotion team?

Yep. No denial about that. But SC got a tune from them that SOD didn’t, JET aside

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

As in...the basis of Cott's promotion team?

I suppose it was.

Well, if you completely disregard all of Korey Smith, Luke Ayling, Luke Freeman, Aaron Wilbraham, Wade Elliott, Kieron Agard & also that he had twice dropped Aden Flint & Frankie Fielding completely, given Joe Bryan only 9 starts whereas Cotts gave him 39 the following season, so as you say, pretty much the basis of that success.

[RedHienz]

Get a grip.

Worst manager I have seen us appoint in 30 plus years. Pulis included. The players he signed which turned out half decent did so because of Cotts. Likewise the academy work was not our lord SoD leading the charge.

The man was/is:

Dour.

Tactically inapt.Had the team playing along the back line with no thought to how to create chances.

Couldn't relate to fans being angry due to being bottom of league one.

Told us to reign in expectations.

 

 

 

[B1ackbird]

Do we have to? He was bad enough the first time around .

 

[CyderInACan]

No matter how bad SOD or the football was, no one - and I mean no one - will ever surpass my well founded hatred for Pulis. There. I’ve said it. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by CyderInACan

[TV Tom]

2 hours ago, pillred said:

A slightly rose-tinted view, it's as if the passing of time (being a great healer) has let you forget just how awful we were under him, yes there were some excuses that could be made but I truly believe him to be one of if not the worse manager we have ever had and there are a lot of candidates for that accolade, he wasn't just a dour old soul he was completely without personality.

I would name at least five straight off the top of my head far worse than him taking into account all the circumstances

[Offside]

Just now, CyderInACan said:

No matter how bad SOD or the football was, no one - and I mean no one - will ever surpass my well founded hatred for Pulis. 

Completely agree. A detestable individual and his time as manager was a real low point. I’ll never forget the utter  relief when he left. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

8 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

No matter how bad SOD or the football was, no one - and I mean no one - will ever surpass my well founded hatred for Pulis. There. I’ve said it. 

 

5 minutes ago, Offside said:

Completely agree. A detestable individual and his time as manager was a real low point. I’ll never forget the utter  relief when he left. 

I still maintain to this day that his hatred of us ran so deep that he was actively trying to destroy the club.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, REDOXO said:

I will brush over McInnes as the very thought of that bloke makes my blood boil and has got me in countless arguments!

SoD took us down, to quote SL,“without a fight” and we were hurtling toward another relegation. 

I don’t do revisionism. They were both crap appointments that were largely endorsed by posters here! 
 

 

 

SL's appraisal isn't entirely fair. For the first two months from mid to late January to mid to late March we were in the fight under O'Driscoll. The home record was strong! Some goals were flowing, Fortress Ashton Gate (for 2-2.5 months).

The away form was a let-down to say the least and what I believe was a key turning point was Wolves away. Wolves away, a big relegation 6 pointer mid March 2013.

Think a priceless 1-0 lead turned to a disastrous 2-1 loss within the space of 2 minutes. It's a shame as our run-in was not so bad..home games vs Sheffield Wednesday on April Fool's Day, a final home game v Huddersfield at end of April and between that tough but not impossible games v Birmingham and Bolton.Charlton away on the last day too.

One point from those 5..terrible terrible return.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[REDOXO]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

SL's appraisal isn't entirely fair. For the first two months from mid to late January to mid to late March we were in the fight under O'Driscoll. The home record was strong! Some goals were flowing, Fortress Ashton Gate (for 2-2.5 months).

The away form was a let-down to say the least and what I believe was a key turning point was Wolves away. Wolves away, a big relegation 6 pointer mid March 2013.

Think a priceless 1-0 lead turned to a disastrous 2-1 loss within the space of 2 minutes. It's a shame as our run-in was not so bad..home games vs Sheffield Wednesday on April Fool's Day, a final home game v Huddersfield at end of April and between that tough but not impossible games v Birmingham and Bolton.Charlton away on the last day too.

One point from those 5..terrible terrible return.

Funny thing with SL n SoD. I always got the impression he didn’t want him particularly, but was convinced/talked into it. 

Hey ho!

I remember the down without a fight comment very well and I reckon he believed it well and truly. 

[22A]

I've looked back to notes I made at the time. As posted by others good and bad.

McInnes was replaced by Sean O’Driscoll whom City had sought before. His first game in charge was another defeat, this time at Leeds, but the performance was much better. Then came two wins in three days to lift City off the bottom. Against Ipswich they came from behind and in the second at the end of January, Watford with the most prolific attack in League played City who had the worst defence in the League. City scored in each half  and for the first time that season, kept a clean sheet.

                That was a false dawn though; results trailed off and City slumped. Brett Pitman returned to Bournemouth and promptly scored 20 goals helping them to promotion. In doing so Bournemouth replaced City who finished bottom of the Championship. City’s defence that year was the worst in the entire League; they conceded 84 goals but for the first time in 45 years, City completed a season without having any player sent off. Louis Carey had now played more than 600 appearances for City. If not for a year at Coventry, he would have already surpassed John Atyeo’s appearance record. As it was he ended the season one game behind Big John’s record.

Sean O’Driscoll used the Summer of 2013 to rebuild the team. The arrivals were goalkeeper Frank Fielding, defenders Aden Flint and Derrick Willams and midfielders Jordan Wynter, Scott Wagstaff, Marlon Pack, Marlon Harewood and JayEmanuel-Thomas.

[Red Billy]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Maybe.  Sorry, didn’t mean it to across like that.  Is it a different view to mine?  Bearing in mind it was my first season watching City in donkeys years (taking my son for the first time), and him waiting 4 games to see a shot on target (exaggerated but not far off) I agree with some of it, the football parts…and others recollection is no different too. 

I think most people would summarise as - crap on the pitch (probably / possibly going down again) but sewed the seeds (some of) for what happened next.

Funnily enough, I’ve long been of the opinion that it won’t be Nige taking us up (I hope he does), but the next man (or woman) to reap the benefits.

(edit: I didn’t see Ron’s edits, so changed a few bits above)

Don’t you think he’ll be here in May 2024 then? 

[Lrrr]

10 hours ago, petehinton said:

Him and Amy Kington were the main catalysts, but very much driven by SO’D as a key thing for him to sort during his time at the club. Couldn’t believe how under invested and under appreciated it was given the quality of talent in the catchment area.

And now look at how much quality we have in the first time because of the academy…

 

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Is it? I'm guessing the recent successful academy products that have made it into our first team were in the academy in and around the time he was here? So if he had a significant role in shaping our direction with the academy which I think he did then surely we can partly attribute the success of the academy to him? 

I think EPPP would have seen to us having to up the standards of the academy regardless of who was pushing for it.

[Grey Fox]

SOD was awful, some of the worst football I’ve ever endured 

[PHILINFRANCE]

12 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Yet this was he bloke who was in charge of a JET-inspired Doncaster that tore us a new one at AG

I remember that match, one of three, perhaps four, I recall, where an individual player has destroyed us at Ashton Gate.

In addition, there was the Stan Collymore show for Forest and the John Salako show for Swansea.

Just behind, was the Southend game where their striker, Freddy Eastwood, tore us apart, not forgetting the Millwall striking duo of Sheringham and Cascarino.

 

[Alex_BCFC]

12 hours ago, Selred said:

2 wins in 18 games... 

Last 6 games were 2 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss. I think there were definitely signs of improvement. Not saying brilliant or anything but the groundwork had been put in and things were slowly turning. Clearly the decision to change was proven correct though. 

[CyderInACan]

3 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I remember that match, one of three, perhaps four, I recall, where an individual player has destroyed us at Ashton Gate.

In addition, there was the Stan Collymore show for Forest and the John Salako show for Swansea.

Just behind, was the Southend game where their striker, Freddy Eastwood, tore us apart, not forgetting the Millwall striking duo of Sheringham and Cascarino.

 

If I’m correct, didn’t Gabbiadini (sp) also tear us apart? But TBF the most comprehensive and powerful demolition I think I’ve ever seen at AG was Collymore  

[OliOTIB]

As much as I agree with some of the stuff mentioned, I cant help but say the SOD days were some of the worst (and boy, there has been some dark days) as a fan of this club

[pillred]

5 hours ago, TV Tom said:

I would name at least five straight off the top of my head far worse than him taking into account all the circumstances

As Tom O'Connor would have famously once said on name that tune, name them.

Edited July 14, 2023 by pillred

[pillred]

2 hours ago, Grey Fox said:

SOD was awful, some of the worst football I’ve ever endured 

Yet there were at least 5 managers worse than him according to a poster who shall remain nameless (look above).

[eardun]

21 hours ago, marcofisher said:

I honestly think he was in the wrong role. He would have been far better in a strategic role rather than man management.

and rather than dealing with journalists/stupid questions. 

[Grey Fox]

His communication skills were not exactly top of the tree. I now live In Sussex, during SODs reign our youth team played a cup match at Burgess Hill which is just down the road from me. Decided to go to the match with my son, we both sat in the bar, the only two City fans there, when SOD came in, wouldn’t say a word to us, a right miserable SOD

[TV Tom]

10 hours ago, pillred said:

As Tom O'Connor would have famously once said on name that tune, name them.

Houghton, Osman, Pulis, Tinnion, McGinnis