Rob Dickie and Zak Vyner

[Edgy Red]

I'm going to hold my hands up and eat a slice of humble pie... i didn't think Zak had this level of improvement in him.

I really hope he can agree a new deal as him and Dickie are a very good partnership

[Sleepy1968]

6 minutes ago, BUTOR said:

Vyner has been on the receiving end of some pretty bad abuse in the past, often the scapegoat. What he feels he owes us I don’t know. If there is an offer on the table and it’s as yet unsigned that may give an indication. Has there been any official word on that? Just a fear of mine. He oozes class and there’ll be a long line of suitors particularly if he is somehow improving even further. Of course, you could argue the club itself stuck by him and they did, but I remember being in away ends where he was quite viciously singled out during bad team performances. Online too. All love now, but that sort of thing tends to linger for the individual.

We made a low ball offer last season which he didn't accept, we then took up his option for this season. There's been no word from the club on any possible further negotiations. We seemingly undervalued his stock at the end of last season. This has now probably risen further (3 outstanding performances this season), so I think the chances of us correctly valuing him are a diminshing probabilty. (Let's face it, he can earn more that what we're prepared to pay if he stays in this division, and he's started to put in performances that might attract some PL teams ...)

Edited August 12, 2023 by Sleepy1968

[transfer reader]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Dickie was a great signing on paper.

 

I do think too much made by various posters (not you per se) about:

• confidence player
• can only play in a three
• cant play left side

The first bullet is as much about the players around him sometimes.  Look how “fragile” Vyner (and Atkinson to an extent) turned it around by getting “coached” on and off the pitch by Naismith and King (who isn’t even a CB).  I’m gonna bleat on about it, because the shit I took (and a small number of others too) for defending King especially in those games, and Naismith to a lesser extent…I feel justified from what we see now (and last season) from Zak.  There was a bigger picture, I don’t even think it was that hard to spot, but if fans have closed minds, short-termism, that’s up to them.  I’m really pleased for him.  I do have some worries about a drop off, but I’ve got to admit it looks bloody unlikely.

Anyway back to Dickie.  Some of the protection QPR’s centre-backs got from their midfield was non-existent.  It’s alright, even under Beale playing how they did, but they were very open.

He’d played the vast majority of his time at Oxford in a four AND as the left.

His media interview this week showed a player who understands his role / position and as important understands his teammates too.  Was a great insight into how he perceives the game.

I often wonder when a new player is signed whether they try to get an understanding of the player’s football intelligence or not.

 

Digressing again, Scott’s interview yesterday said he’d not spoken to the manager yet.  That maybe just focussing on the signing.  I’d like to think Scott had spoken to him before the deal got done.

I'm sure you (IIRC from reading for a while) as someone who played CB know a bit more than most how much the midfield in front are important for the CBs when they're on the pitch.

 

Re Dickie, you don't have a season as good as he had at QPR, even with a good midfield in front unless there's something about you, but when a midfield leaves you exposed it can make you look a fair bit worse than you are if a few mistakes creep in

[!james]

At what point if Vyner hasn't signed a new deal do we envisage a Massengo type situation?! 

[REDOXO]

Certainly Zac has some leverage to get a better contract.
 

However I’m pretty confident he is being looked at by some PL clubs. Brentford were rumored to be interested. 

Regardless he speaks very well, obviously a smart boy! 

[steviestevieneville]

23 minutes ago, !james said:

At what point if Vyner hasn't signed a new deal do we envisage a Massengo type situation?! 

Don’t think that will happen & the reason np did that has been covered loads of times . You have to treat each player individually . Think the comparison with every player in the last year of his contract needs to stop tbh

[ChrisBW]

2 hours ago, Nugget said:

Last centre back pairing this strong being Webster & Kalas perhaps  

2 games against 2 powderpuff front lines. Greater challenges ahead.

[!james]

4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Don’t think that will happen & the reason np did that has been covered loads of times . You have to treat each player individually . Think the comparison with every player in the last year of his contract needs to stop tbh

Fair enough but if he makes it clear he won't sign I don't expect him to be in the team in January 

[Davefevs]

Would not surprise me if agreement has been reached and it’s just sorting out the paperwork / announcement.  I don’t think Nige would’ve given him the captain’s armband in the week otherwise.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

31 minutes ago, ChrisBW said:

2 games against 2 powderpuff front lines. Greater challenges ahead.

Possibly Vyner/Dickie helped make them look powder puff? 

[Davefevs]

36 minutes ago, ChrisBW said:

2 games against 2 powderpuff front lines. Greater challenges ahead.

You’ve gone early there, mate.

[Victory Park Reds]

I can’t remember a player who has gone from zero to hero and stay constantly a hero for such a long time.?
 

I was In the “please upgrade Vyner” camp now I’m “make him sign a new deal quick” .

Getting the players player award shows what his teammates thought about his performances as well.

I really hope the club think about offering him a new deal at a decent  rate as him and Dickie look a pretty good partnership.

They are both very comfortable on the ball as well .

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Victory Park Reds said:

I was In the “please upgrade Vyner” camp now I’m “make him sign a new deal quick” .

It just demonstrates that on occasion the answer to upgrading a young player is just time. An older version of that young player is the upgrade. We won't always be in the luxurious position to afford that time, but when we are, it's a great option.

4 minutes ago, Victory Park Reds said:

Getting the players player award shows what his teammates thought about his performances as well.

It's because he was the best player in the squad last season. He won the real quiz rather than the popularity competition.

As an aside, his fellow graduate O'Leary has a great game today.

[TommyD68]

1 hour ago, !james said:

At what point if Vyner hasn't signed a new deal do we envisage a Massengo type situation?! 

Even if he walks for a free at the end of the year, I don’t see this ever being an option. Currently the most consistent player in the squad by some distance and building a great partnership with Dickie, why hinder the teams chances. Look at Gundogan at Man City for example, even if he doesn’t sign and leaves at the end of the season, not everything has to end on bad terms. I think this is actually more on City not offering him the improved terms he deserves and doing it sooner. Anyway fingers crossed it gets resolved as he’s a rock and vital to the team progressing in my opinion! 

Edited August 12, 2023 by TommyD68

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

the answer to upgrading a young player is just time

…and good coaching from a whole range of people!

 

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

As an aside, his fellow graduate O'Leary has a great game today.

Haven’t read a comment tonight mentioning his catch from a free-kick and immediate throw to set Bell away on the counter.

I don’t think his distribution is top-notch, or anywhere near that, but I wish the people who give him stick, at least give some credit when it’s due.

[IAmNick]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's because he was the best player in the squad last season

By what measure of best though?

He's come on leaps and bounds and is now a really good championship player, but I don't think he was the best player in our squad last season.

Is that what our players actually vote on?

Edited August 12, 2023 by IAmNick

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, IAmNick said:

By what measure of best though?

He's come on leaps and bounds and is now a really good championship player, but I don't think he was the best player in our squad last season.

My own measure, and the players'. But I can respect a different opinion.

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think his distribution is top-notch, or anywhere near that, but I wish the people who give him stick, at least give some credit when it’s due.

He's not the perfect 'keeper, just as Vyner is far from a perfect CB. But Max had a good game today, not his busiest, but I thought he was solid. On distribution he's not the most accurate, but I feel he's quicker than Bentley, or at least can be when needed. He more frequently releases the wide forwards when the opposition are out of shape. That's what my eyes tell me anyway, haven't checked those (fairly niche) stats.

[transfer reader]

33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

…and good coaching from a whole range of people!

 

Haven’t read a comment tonight mentioning his catch from a free-kick and immediate throw to set Bell away on the counter.

I don’t think his distribution is top-notch, or anywhere near that, but I wish the people who give him stick, at least give some credit when it’s due.

I think Max is an upgrade over Bentley when it comes to quick distribution, but is out most obvious area when it comes to improving the squad.

 

At not point when he has played have I felt assured with him in goal. He's got great reactions, but is a mid-table championship keeper at best when it comes to his overall game.

[And Its Smith]

10 hours ago, transfer reader said:

I think Max is an upgrade over Bentley when it comes to quick distribution, but is out most obvious area when it comes to improving the squad.

 

At not point when he has played have I felt assured with him in goal. He's got great reactions, but is a mid-table championship keeper at best when it comes to his overall game.

The more he plays, the more he will improve. Already mid table championship despite only playing 40 games at this level. Pretty good I’d say 

[tin]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Would not surprise me if agreement has been reached and it’s just sorting out the paperwork / announcement.  I don’t think Nige would’ve given him the captain’s armband in the week otherwise.

Would not surprise me if he’s sold before 1 September. He’s had an excellent start to the season, has interest from Brentford, Luton and Rangers according to Piercy, and has 12 months left. If he doesn’t renew soon, surely we will look to cash in “to protect our asset”?

I was one of his biggest critics but am more than happy to be proved wrong and think he deserves a new deal to put him in with the higher earners in the squad, especially if he keeps these performances up. Well done, Zak.

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, tin said:

Would not surprise me if he’s sold before 1 September. He’s had an excellent start to the season, has interest from Brentford, Luton and Rangers according to Piercy, and has 12 months left. If he doesn’t renew soon, surely we will look to cash in “to protect our asset”?

I was one of his biggest critics but am more than happy to be proved wrong and think he deserves a new deal to put him in with the higher earners in the squad, especially if he keeps these performances up. Well done, Zak.

I’d be massively surprised if we sold him before 1st September. Play off push would be a lot harder without him. Having received £30m this calendar year already I just can’t see it happening 

[Bazooka Joe]

15 hours ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Just me who thinks they are very weak, concede far too many chances and arguably our worst CB partnerships since Fontaine and Al Abd. Would not surprise me if we concede the most goals in the championship with these two as a pairing

 

 

*trying to ensure we aren’t jinxing them, very good today. Vyner or Beckenbaurer with some of his passes. Dickie, composed and solid.*

Like all loyal City fans, wherever they may be, we will never be Poles apart.

[Sturny]

So far, best partnership since Webster/Kalas

[JoeAman08]

First time I saw Dickie in the friendly against Oxford I wasn’t impressed. He has grown each and every time I have seen him since. Looks a great signing

 Vyner think I maybe been one of his few believers. Give him a position and keep him there and he’d excel. Still thought he’d just be a dependable squad player but he keeps getting better and more confident by the game. Need to sort out his contract asap. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by JoeAman08

[extonsred]

In previous seasons have been saying our defence seems weak because of the even weaker midfield in front of them. Not surprising Zac made mistakes..running all over the place, pulled out of position, changing players alongside him all the time. Throughout the team we seem to have moved forward in terms of organisation and the units doing their jibs more thoroughly...hence Zac is able to settle into developing the role he's obviously very good at.

[Loosey Boy]

1 hour ago, Sturny said:

So far, best partnership since Webster/Kalas

Early doors but think you could well be right