Sarina Wiegman to replace Gareth Southgate?

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Are we constantly in the mix because we have quality players now all over the park who Southgate can pick from or because of his tactical nous,I would say the former which goes for Wiegman as well 

I don’t think we do have quality players all over the pitch, we do have some very good players though.

A bit of both would be my answer.  Southgate isn’t perfect, but I still think he’s good.

I can’t comment enough on the England women’s players, but Wiegman has done pretty well in my eyes.  I don’t think we have the best players either, missing a couple of key ones too.

Pretty sure we’ve had quality players in the past in both sexes…and underperformed…so the coach has a big influence imho however good the players (or not).

[BarnzFM]

How the **** has England getting to the World Cup final been turned into such a negative thread? 

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Pretty sure we’ve had quality players in the past in both sexes…and underperformed…so the coach has a big influence imho however good the players (or not).

In the men's game Sven and the "golden generation" and in the women's game Phil "they're lucky to have me" Neville come to mind.

[joe jordans teeth]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think we do have quality players all over the pitch, we do have some very good players though.

A bit of both would be my answer.  Southgate isn’t perfect, but I still think he’s good.

I can’t comment enough on the England women’s players, but Wiegman has done pretty well in my eyes.  I don’t think we have the best players either, missing a couple of key ones too.

Pretty sure we’ve had quality players in the past in both sexes…and underperformed…so the coach has a big influence imho however good the players (or not).

No team has quality all over the pitch I admit but there are not many squads better than ours at this moment so that’s when a manager shows his quality and wins things,I like Southgate but he doesn’t scream winner to me 

[joe jordans teeth]

12 minutes ago, BarnzFM said:

How the **** has England getting to the World Cup final been turned into such a negative thread? 

Because the press suddenly think the men’s game and women’s game go hand in hand 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But this is a comparison, in the main, about the merits of one coach over another, not the standards of the game  Why couldn’t a women be a better coach than a man?

There is no reason why a female coach can't be better than a man.  But you would want your head coach to have at least some experience of coaching men. There are some interesting differences between the two games, for example the mens game and women's game distance covered in midfield is very similar a 10k & 11k however the men will run 30% of that at max intensity.  The consequence of that is men have less time on the ball.  Add to that strength and power and size and the game starts to look and play tactically very different.

[Markthehorn]

1 minute ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Because the press suddenly think the men’s game and women’s game go hand in hand 

They are always comparing the two.

And no Wiegman won’t be the next Mens manager but might have some sort of FA role - she is a very well qualified coach I think .

16 minutes ago, BarnzFM said:

How the **** has England getting to the World Cup final been turned into such a negative thread? 

I think people respect Southgate but aren’t totally at ease with some of his tactics and selections .

Also is seen as a bit dour and dull but then he is there to manage - not crack a few joked and be mates with the media.

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Can we cut the bullshit, no she probably couldn't.  I don't want to take away from what she's done it's amazing but inferring that directly transfers to the mens game is nonsense. The women's game is very different to the mens game, can we just not appreciate the woman's game for what it is, bloody fun to watch without the constant direct comparisons to the mens game?

You are, of course, quite correct in all the points you make.

Nevertheless, as far as I have been able to establish, it has only been a typical media distortion that has brought this argument to light.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody, in any serious interview/article, has suggested that, should England win the World Cup, and I hope and believe they will, then Sarina Wiegman should replace Gareth Southgate.

[joe jordans teeth]

1 minute ago, Markthehorn said:

They are always comparing the two.

And no Wiegman won’t be the next Mens manager but might have some sort of FA role - she is a very well qualified coach I think .

I think people respect Southgate but aren’t totally at ease with some of his tactics and selections .

Also is seen as a bit dour and dull but then he is there to manage - not crack a few joked and be mates with the media.

Are not all managers dour and dull so won’t hold that against him 

[joe jordans teeth]

4 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

You are, of course, quite correct in all the points you make.

Nevertheless, as far as I have been able to establish, it has only been a typical media distortion that has brought this argument to light.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody, in any serious interview/article, has suggested that, should England win the World Cup, and I hope and believe they will, then Sarina Wiegman should replace Gareth Southgate.

It will put pressure on Southgate if Wiegman wins the World Cup according to one of very own on here tho

[Fred89]

4 hours ago, dargla said:

Yes it's paper talk, but what are people's thoughts on this? 

There are so many things wrong with this from females being compromised on team selection by being around the changing room and being attracted to players to the actual levels of competition and quality in the games! Can you imagine a a woman motivating these men at the highest level from multiple cultures and religions  being released from a club and told you’re not good by a woman with the football experience at the same level as an U12 academy player?? 

But the most frustrating thing about it all is that at a time when women should be celebrating their own success their obsession with infiltrating the Mens version of the sport rather than focusing on growing their own brand is at the front of their mindsbaffling frustrating and ridiculous all around! 
Mens Football over here

Womens football over here 

end the madness 

I get some people want the best for their daughters which is admirable but get real and stop picking on football 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Fred89

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

There is no reason why a female coach can't be better than a man.  But you would want your head coach to have at least some experience of coaching men. There are some interesting differences between the two games, for example the mens game and women's game distance covered in midfield is very similar a 10k & 11k however the men will run 30% of that at max intensity.  The consequence of that is men have less time on the ball.  Add to that strength and power and size and the game starts to look and play tactically very different.

I’m not disagreeing, but coaching badges are coaching badges whether you’re male or female.

But you’re making it sound like a woman would suddenly rock up in a job and think “shit, I’d no idea the men’s game was played like this”.

I’m no huge Emma Hayes fan per se, but it’s clear she can dissect a man’s game (we’ve seen her on the telly), and I’m sure she could run a men’s training session too.

We let men manage / coach a team with less experience than some of these women, purely because they were good players / have a reputation.  That’s not necessarily right is it?

In contrast, did Phil Neville rock up at England and think “shit, I’d no idea the women’s game was played likes this”?

There are a whole of good reasons why this isn’t happen, but not understanding the difference on the way each sex’s game is played is not one of the reasons.

Nor do I think she’ll be putting pressure on GS if she wins either.

Good discussion though

 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Fred89 said:

There are so many things wrong with this from females being compromised on team selection by being around the changing room and being attracted to players to the actual levels of competition and quality in the games! Can you imagine a a woman motivating these men at the highest level from multiple cultures and religious  being released from a club and told you’re not good by a woman with the football experience at the same level as an U12 academy player??

completely disagree.

(Joking / not my view - some would have you believe they’re all “lezzers” so why would they be attracted)

But the most frustrating thing about it all is that at a time when women should be celebrating their own success their obsession with infiltrating the Mens version of the sport rather than focusing on growing their own brand is at the front of their mindsbaffling frustrating and ridiculous all around! 
Mens Football over here

completely agree.

But I also have no issue if females do break through into men’s football either.

Womens football over here 

end the madness 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Davefevs

[exAtyeoMax]

3 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

English football fans also know that the standard of the women’s game still leaves a lot to be desired,if you honestly think a women’s team in any sport winning should put pressure on a men’s team then I’m flabbergasted 

I was thinking pressure would come from the media. And people who don’t watch football 

[Sleepy1968]

7 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Not just a different game, its almost a different sport!

Forgetting the difference in genders, which would be an untested dynamic in itself, in terms of standard it would be like appointing a manager who had done well in non league to the biggest job in English football

So, you want to put Joey out of a job then?

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In contrast, did Phil Neville rock up at England and think “shit, I’d no idea the women’s game was played likes this?

Let's march the ladies around a military obstacle course, Phil, was a disaster and a bit of a insult to the ladies, let's give them a manager who hasn't proved himself in either game.  But he was a good defender in the mens game.  

[Murraysrightplum]

It’s a bit strange that people have for a long time been banging the drum of not comparing women’s football to men’s because ‘it’s a different game’ etc but as soon as the women’s team do well or they want to justify female pundits etc then suddenly the two games are directly related and comparisons can be made. Either they’re different or they’re not.

FWIW I have watched a few games over the last couple of years with the mindset that it is a different game and played in a different way and enjoyed them, but the quality and pressure that goes with the top level men’s game is night and day and not something you can prepare for in women’s football. I’d have no problem with SW getting a job in the men’s game and then working her way up to the top level if she proves that she can do it. Same as any other candidate 

[Gert Mare]

I don’t think you can compare the women’s game with the men’s game, apart from the psychological aspect.

What stands out for me with Weigman is that she doesn’t seem to worry too much about the opposition and prefers to focus on the strengths of her own team.

This is where the men could learn. So often we have been guilty for taking the lead and then dropping deep to defend it and it doesn’t work.

Our pace and attacking threat is a worry for anyone. The French were certainly worried when we played them in the World Cup, but we refused to get at their fullbacks (which Morocco did with ease) and exposed them time and time again.

The England women when they break are very direct, the men get forward, spend a while looking for gaps and then play it back into the midfield and try to build again. This doesn’t play to our strengths and is frustrating to watch.

The women trust each other and play to their strengths which in turn breeds confidence and improves their mentality.

Even when under pressure they don’t panic and then they slow the match down at the end and manage it out having broken the spirit of the opposition.

Gareth is far too conservative and is not a winner. We are certainly capable of winning a trophy with the men, but he’s not the coach to get the job done.

The women have the right coach and although they will have less of the ball tomorrow than they are used to I would still expect them to be patient in their approach and when they do get the opportunity to break they will play to their strengths, not panic and be clinical because they know how to find a way to win.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Gert Mare

[2015]

13 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Can we cut the bullshit, no she probably couldn't.  I don't want to take away from what she's done it's amazing but inferring that directly transfers to the mens game is nonsense. The women's game is very different to the mens game, can we just not appreciate the woman's game for what it is, bloody fun to watch without the constant direct comparisons to the mens game?

Well said. Have had it all week off people who don't really follow Football 'Why havent the Men won it since 1966?' - Well I don't think you have a clue how HARD the Men's game is to win a World Cup.. It does both game's a real disservice to compare the two.

The Women's achievements are theirs in their own right and it is totally unfair to compare them to the Men, but I guess anything to put our Men's team down is fine nowadays.

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Let's march the ladies around a military obstacle course, Phil, was a disaster and a bit of a insult to the ladies, let's give them a manager who hasn't proved himself in either game.  But he was a good defender in the mens game.  

Rumour was he got the job after someone from the FA was chatting to his sister at a reception at Downing Street celebrating women in sport.

[The Bard]

11 hours ago, Fred89 said:

There are so many things wrong with this from females being compromised on team selection by being around the changing room and being attracted to players to the actual levels of competition and quality in the games! Can you imagine a a woman motivating these men at the highest level from multiple cultures and religions  being released from a club and told you’re not good by a woman with the football experience at the same level as an U12 academy player?? 

But the most frustrating thing about it all is that at a time when women should be celebrating their own success their obsession with infiltrating the Mens version of the sport rather than focusing on growing their own brand is at the front of their mindsbaffling frustrating and ridiculous all around! 
Mens Football over here

Womens football over here 

end the madness 

I get some people want the best for their daughters which is admirable but get real and stop picking on football 

Nurse! 

[chinapig]

13 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

I don’t think you can compare the women’s game with the men’s game, apart from the psychological aspect.

You are in the majority in saying this so my point is a general one rather than aimed at you but I'm curious as to how this difference shows itself apart from the obvious physical one.

I don't see any difference in formations, tactics etc for instance. Would a woman coaching a men's team have to learn a whole new set of coaching skills? Or indeed would a man have to do the same if he took over a women's team?

I'm open to persuasion but I would need somebody to explain the difference rather than just assert it.

[Leveller]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

You are in the majority in saying this so my point is a general one rather than aimed at you but I'm curious as to how this difference shows itself apart from the obvious physical one.

I don't see any difference in formations, tactics etc for instance. Would a woman coaching a men's team have to learn a whole new set of coaching skills? Or indeed would a man have to do the same if he took over a women's team?

I'm open to persuasion but I would need somebody to explain the difference rather than just assert it.

Tend to agree. Women’s football used to be very poor, but to my untrained eye it looks very similar to the men’s game now. Certainly the quality of some matches in the WC has been well above many I’ve seen at Ashton Gate over the last couple of seasons. 

[eardun]

No discussion on this thread as to whether Wiegman might be remotely interested in taking on the England men’s job, which would be the most important question in my eyes. I’d be amazed if she would choose to go anywhere near it. 

[chinapig]

6 minutes ago, eardun said:

No discussion on this thread as to whether Wiegman might be remotely interested in taking on the England men’s job, which would be the most important question in my eyes. I’d be amazed if she would choose to go anywhere near it. 

Indeed nobody, other than the press, had suggested she would be in the frame. Not the FA and certainly not her.

The press simply distorted what Mark Bullingham had said so as to generate controversy. So the entire debate is based on nothing.

[Negan]

Nobody likes to say it because we live in a world where it’s better to be ignorant. I’ve watched 2 of the women’s games now at this World Cup, the level (which is no fault of their own) is absolutely awful. The evolution of women’s football is still in its very early stages, it’s great how it’s coming along but let’s not pretend it’s anywhere near the men’s game. I have no doubt in my mind that if you put the Bath City men’s team in the women’s World Cup they’d win it without conceding. So to even think the manager of the women’s national team should be considered for the men’s national team is laughable. She’s succeeding because she’s a very talented woman in a talented woman’s set up. Let them build together and improve their game. If she takes the man’s job it just makes the women’s game feel like stepping stone when that should be her pinnacle. She needs to stay there and build a legacy in women’s football. It won’t end well for any woman that steps in to the men’s game. It’s too brutal, the women’s game is a much more appealing and friendly environment where they actually have a chance at making it.

[Bristol Oil Services]

2 minutes ago, Negan said:

Nobody likes to say it because we live in a world where it’s better to be ignorant. I’ve watched 2 of the women’s games now at this World Cup, the level (which is no fault of their own) is absolutely awful. The evolution of women’s football is still in its very early stages, it’s great how it’s coming along but let’s not pretend it’s anywhere near the men’s game. I have no doubt in my mind that if you put the Bath City men’s team in the women’s World Cup they’d win it without conceding. So to even think the manager of the women’s national team should be considered for the men’s national team is laughable. She’s succeeding because she’s a very talented woman in a talented woman’s set up. Let them build together and improve their game. If she takes the man’s job it just makes the women’s game feel like stepping stone when that should be her pinnacle. She needs to stay there and build a legacy in women’s football. It won’t end well for any woman that steps in to the men’s game. It’s too brutal, the women’s game is a much more appealing and friendly environment where they actually have a chance at making it.

Women can be brutal, mate. They have the capacity for brutality, same as you and me. They can be ruthless. They have the killer instinct. There's a female SAF out there, for sure. Men have coached women, why not have equal opportunity, if they want it. Let them say if it's too brutal.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

46 minutes ago, chinapig said:

You are in the majority in saying this so my point is a general one rather than aimed at you but I'm curious as to how this difference shows itself apart from the obvious physical one.

I don't see any difference in formations, tactics etc for instance. Would a woman coaching a men's team have to learn a whole new set of coaching skills? Or indeed would a man have to do the same if he took over a women's team?

I'm open to persuasion but I would need somebody to explain the difference rather than just assert it.

There was a study of elite mens and womens football a while back. Champions league covered lots of interesting nuances of the women's game.  I like the women's game in its own right, I just find it hard to enjoy at times when all the commentary around it makes.quite ignorant comparisons to the mens game.

[Coxy27]

Wiegman and Hayes would be far better choices than some of the managers currently in the men's game at a pretty high level.

[Glen hump]

3 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

Wiegman and Hayes would be far better choices than some of the managers currently in the men's game at a pretty high level.

How do you come to that conclusion, they have zero experience of the men’s game, the women’s and men’s games are like 2 different sports.