Equal pay for women

[Eddie Hitler]

31 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Do you mean at club level or international level?  At international level you can make a case for it. At club level it is nonsensical to suggest. Economically it makes no sense at all 

 

Yup.

Footballers and entertainers generally are paid a portion of the gates receipts / ticket sales they generate.

I am sure that the players of Torquay train just as hard as those of Man City, there is no complaint that they receive less in a year than Man City players do in a week.

They aren't salaried roles where you are paid to carry out a particular function to a required level, those should be equally paid.

[DT The Optimist]

Ok. I will get slated but is woman's football still a ‘minority’ sport? 

I accept the National tournaments draw the crowds but look for instance at Arsenal ladies. The men play in front the of 50k plus each week… the woman about 2k? 
How many of us on OTIB could name any of the BCFC woman's team. I suspect very few. 
Best of luck to those who play woman's football and those who support it, but apart from the rules it is night and day difference as a spectator sport compared to mens pro game. 

[phantom]

32 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

The more I think about it the more I reckon @bs3 is sat at his keyboard laughing at the bites 

It is quite telling when we get threads like this where the OP never contributes in the thread again 

Throw the grenade and run 

[TammyAB]

51 minutes ago, bs3 said:

Isn’t about time the women footballers deserve equal pay with the men .

How in 2023 this situation is allowed to continue, surely the government must put through legislation that women and men are paid the same .

I see I’m not alone in this call there are many MPs and high (and low) profile celebrities demanding action on this issue.

If women had equal pay with the men at their level they’d be earning the same as Paulton Rovers

[And Its Smith]

12 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Ok. I will get slated but is woman's football still a ‘minority’ sport? 

I accept the National tournaments draw the crowds but look for instance at Arsenal ladies. The men play in front the of 50k plus each week… the woman about 2k? 
How many of us on OTIB could name any of the BCFC woman's team. I suspect very few. 
Best of luck to those who play woman's football and those who support it, but apart from the rules it is night and day difference as a spectator sport compared to mens pro game. 

https://www.givemesport.com/arsenal-women-boast-higher-average-attendance-than-premier-leagues-bournemouth/

[sludge]

Are there actually any professional sports where the men and women get paid the same? 
 

Tennis possibly? 

[JAWS]

1 hour ago, bs3 said:

Isn’t about time the women footballers deserve equal pay with the men .

How in 2023 this situation is allowed to continue, surely the government must put through legislation that women and men are paid the same .

I see I’m not alone in this call there are many MPs and high (and low) profile celebrities demanding action on this issue.

Surely this is a wind up or that cider must be strong!?

[Son of Fred]

32 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said:

I have given watching Bristol City ladies a go. There was less than a 1000 there for a reason. How does mean they get equal pay???

Would be interesting to know what sort of money our ladies are on???

[Eddie Hitler]

20 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Ok. I will get slated but is woman's football still a ‘minority’ sport? 

I accept the National tournaments draw the crowds but look for instance at Arsenal ladies. The men play in front the of 50k plus each week… the woman about 2k? 
How many of us on OTIB could name any of the BCFC woman's team. I suspect very few. 
Best of luck to those who play woman's football and those who support it, but apart from the rules it is night and day difference as a spectator sport compared to mens pro game. 

 

I would say that it has risen above being a minority sport now and is a "proper" senior sport.  That doesn't mean that it necessarily has the depth of support of the men's games where there are decent crowds all the way down the pyramid, but it's probably pushing or has exceeded men's rugby league or union, or cricket these days for participants and paying specatators. 

And I say that as someone who has no interest in women's football so I have no bias towards it.

Nothing really touches men's football as a spectator sport in this country.  It's unfair to always use that as a comparator IMHO.

[Son of Fred]

8 minutes ago, sludge said:

Are there actually any professional sports where the men and women get paid the same? 
 

Tennis possibly? 

Which has been a topic of debate,

Five sets for men,three for women.

[RedM]

18 minutes ago, sludge said:

Are there actually any professional sports where the men and women get paid the same? 
 

Tennis possibly? 

Darts?

[handsofclay]

24 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

If women had equal pay with the men at their level they’d be earning the same as Paulton Rovers

Precisely. If anything, in comparison to their true financial draw with the men's game it can be argued that women at club level are being overpaid.

It has to be remembered too that even at international level, where attendances are comparable to the men's, the tickets are usually a lot cheaper and at times given away for free and the TV audience is smaller. 

We are being fed an agenda, particularly in this country, to make it seem like the women's game is just as important as and on an equal par with the men's. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of us can see through this nonsense.

I wish the Lionesses the best of luck today. I will be watching it, the first game I will have watched in this World Cup, which speaks volumes compared to the men's tournament where I put that first as much as humanly possible. It will still be a fabulous achievement and something the nation can be proud of, but to equate it with the men ever winning the World Cup is nonsense.

[sludge]

11 minutes ago, RedM said:

Darts?

I said sport

[Better Red]

The ‘truth’ is the public are just not as interested as the press would want everyone to believe.

Its a massive opportunity for the press media to push the look at us we are equal in how we represent to women. Again that is ok it’s a new sport and needs pushing and they are doing a good job.

I have not seen a flag on a car or any flags on houses etc. No one wearing shirts etc.. 

Pubs, supermarkets etc will not generate 5% of what the men getting to a WC final.But that is OK it’s a different sport at the moment.

Will it get to the same level as the mens game - No I don’t think so but again that’s ok.

The question is if winning the World Cup can’t grab the public imagination nothing will. Again that’s ok.

At some point everyone just needs to except it’s always going to be second behind the mens game. Again it’s no surprise to anyone that’s the case.

The financial returns will always be different again that’s Ok it’s market forces it’s not about equality.

Its good for ‘Football’ overall that the womens game is developing.

Lets have equality at every opportunity but also we have to temper that with market forces. 

 

[RedM]

I don't think the public are that interested either, but the media have jumped on the 'support our girls' bandwagon, I guess because they want to be seen as doing the same as they would for the men or that would be wrong too.

It's also 'safer' for the media to do so too, it's more family friendly and doesn't have the hooligan element we have often seen blight the men's game. If they win today though we are never going to hear the end of it, if they achieve what the men have failed to do. Fair play if they do, but it won't affect my life, i still wouldn't be tempted to go to a match.

During the men's euros/world cup people at work were swopping shifts in order to watch, I even offered today to work for anyone who wanted to watch and had no takers. 

[Eddie Hitler]

12 minutes ago, RedM said:

I don't think the public are that interested either, but the media have jumped on the 'support our girls' bandwagon, I guess because they want to be seen as doing the same as they would for the men or that would be wrong too.

It's also 'safer' for the media to do so too, it's more family friendly and doesn't have the hooligan element we have often seen blight the men's game. If they win today though we are never going to hear the end of it, if they achieve what the men have failed to do. Fair play if they do, but it won't affect my life, i still wouldn't be tempted to go to a match.

During the men's euros/world cup people at work were swopping shifts in order to watch, I even offered today to work for anyone who wanted to watch and had no takers. 

 

The success of the English national women's team is a good thing IMO, new girls' teams have been springing up all over the country with massive motivation to play football because they're inspired by that success.  And it gives the opportunity for a lot of people to feel part of something national.

I'm not interested, as I'm not interested in cricket, rugby league or swimming for that matter, but it seems rather churlish to keep knocking it as some are.  Though I'm certainly not saying that you're doing that.

And if the current interest translates into a load more paying spectators for the women's football league or for TV coverage of their games then their pay will increase.  That's how it works.

It's only the childish comparisons of the media to 1966 which irk, and they seem deliberately designed to annoy people.  Clickbait if you will.

[Barrs Court Red]

5 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

The success of the English national women's team is a good thing IMO, new girls' teams have been springing up all over the country with massive motivation to play football because they're inspired by that success.  And it gives the opportunity for a lot of people to feel part of something national.

I'm not interested, as I'm not interested in cricket, rugby league or swimming for that matter, but it seems rather churlish to keep knocking it as some are.  Though I'm certainly not saying that you're doing that.

And if the current interest translates into a load more paying spectators for the women's football league or for TV coverage of their games then their pay will increase.  That's how it works.

It's only the childish comparisons of the media to 1966 which irk, and they seem deliberately designed to annoy people.  Clickbait if you will.

The Bristol Girls league have some interesting stats on the growth of participation over the last few years. There’s a huge rise in players. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 hours ago, bs3 said:

Isn’t about time the women footballers deserve equal pay with the men .

How in 2023 this situation is allowed to continue, surely the government must put through legislation that women and men are paid the same .

I see I’m not alone in this call there are many MPs and high (and low) profile celebrities demanding action on this issue.

No if they were paid the same as the men then they would be paid more than the tournament generates.  They are paid more than the men as a portion of revenue which is right to encourage growth of the game.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Lorenzos Only Goal

[real_bristol]

At club level it’s a supply and demand as well as a financial sustainability issue. If City were “forced” to pay the women’s  team the same as the men’s, wouldn’t it open a whole new can of worms regarding FFP. Is there FFP in the women’s game?

Also, the men’s team would no doubt be in worse financial constraints than it already is if the guy that keeps us afloat season upon season suddenly has to fork out for equal pay. 

Personally I think the answer is to invest more in the women’s game, grass roots, marketing of matches, more crossover between the men’s game and women’s game for coaches will help too. This will help “create” the demand for the women’s game and allow pay to grow organically. For me the women’s game still has lots of catching up to do but that’s not to say it will never be the same. The men’s game has had 150 years to perfect itself. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

https://www.givemesport.com/arsenal-women-boast-higher-average-attendance-than-premier-leagues-bournemouth/

But Arsenal women's team don't have a huge billion £ TV settlement do they. 

[Eddie Hitler]

10 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

The Bristol Girls league have some interesting stats on the growth of participation over the last few years. There’s a huge rise in players. 

 

Great, good to hear.

[adamski]

As a product women’s football is in its infancy. Taking gender politic out of the equation - it’s lacks the skill levels and complexity of the men’s game and needs investment at grass roots level. Comparative gender standards in Tennis, golf, hockey, athletics, cycling, rowing, sailing, swimming and rugby are much higher…in my opinion….I’m afraid the pay issue is a product of delusional hype, ignorance and non-sporting agendas

[marcofisher]

1 hour ago, sludge said:

Are there actually any professional sports where the men and women get paid the same? 
 

Tennis possibly? 

 

1 hour ago, Son of Fred said:

Which has been a topic of debate,

Five sets for men,three for women.

Men and Women are only paid equally at the 4 Grand Slams and not always in their respective tours from my understanding. Conversely, men and women both play 3 sets at ATP (men’s) and WTA (women’s) level, but the prize money is not necessarily equal for tournaments on the regular tour, even if they have the same value points wise.

 

[Fpcity]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

https://www.givemesport.com/arsenal-women-boast-higher-average-attendance-than-premier-leagues-bournemouth/

And tickets are significantly cheaper I'd guess? 

If they were the same price as the clubs men's team they'd get get a lot less as well. 

[And Its Smith]

Just now, paul_fox said:

And tickets are significantly cheaper I'd guess? 

If they were the same price as the clubs men's team they'd get get a lot less as well. 

Yeah they are cheaper the same as men’s tickets used to be cheaper than they are now 

[ChrisBW]

Good for young girls but the answer is obviously no.

[Roe]

The fact we're all arguing in this thread rather than watching the world cup final kind of says it all 

[IAmNick]

The arguments about how much money the game makes is a shame I think, because we fund lots of things in society which we think are important but don't make loads of money - and I think that's a good thing. There are other ways to judge worth imo.

Let's also remember that many, many men's teams including our own don't cover their - losses to the tune of millions a year - and rely on wealthy individuals to prop them up. Maybe we should apply the same arguments above to the men's game?

I'm not saying I think they should be paid the same currently but I also think there's too much disparity. I also think you have to accept that if you want to encourage things like this it will cost money and need to be "pushed" to some degree or things will never change.

I don't think something or someone's worth is purely measured by how much they monitarily contribute to their business, but clearly others disagree.

I don't think there's anything wrong with subsiding things like that as a society.

26 minutes ago, Roe said:

The fact we're all arguing in this thread rather than watching the world cup final kind of says it all 

You clearly don't read our match day threads then! 

[Ziderarmy]

2 hours ago, RedM said:

Darts?

Don’t be ridiculous 

[RedM]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

The success of the English national women's team is a good thing IMO, new girls' teams have been springing up all over the country with massive motivation to play football because they're inspired by that success.  And it gives the opportunity for a lot of people to feel part of something national.

I'm not interested, as I'm not interested in cricket, rugby league or swimming for that matter, but it seems rather churlish to keep knocking it as some are.  Though I'm certainly not saying that you're doing that.

And if the current interest translates into a load more paying spectators for the women's football league or for TV coverage of their games then their pay will increase.  That's how it works.

It's only the childish comparisons of the media to 1966 which irk, and they seem deliberately designed to annoy people.  Clickbait if you will.

I agree. It's fantastic that schoolgirls can get involved in a teamsport in the way boys have always been able to. Many, many years ago there was absolutely no scope for a girl to play football regularly. At school, all the afterschool clubs etc were for boys only. Anything that can get kids up doing physical exercise can only be a good thing, and if they can also be helped within that team to overcome issues with eating disorders etc and mental health issues then all the better. 

Yes people want to spend their time watching some sports, fair enough, but I also think some sports are better participation wise rather than spectator wise.