Equal pay for women

[Redtrojan]

I’m in a town in Spain ,there are 2 tvs in the bar ……..both showing rowing.

 

[RedM]

7 minutes ago, Ziderarmy said:

Don’t be ridiculous 

I believe it is classed as as sport. TV etc treat it as such, what is it then?

I was merely pointing out that men and women can compete side by side in competitions and have equal chance at prize money and titles. 

[Full nelson]

Equal pay or not! Thanks girls for inspiring my daughter and niece to play football over th last ten years and it's nice to see them both running rings around the boys too. 

[Harry]

The simple answer to the opening question lies in the TV deal for the womens World Cup. 
In many countries, there were no TV companies who were willing to pay what FIFA were demanding. 
That evidences quite clearly that the TV companies didn’t want to throw money at it, and I guess the BBC only picked this up and paid for it in the latter stages once they knew they’d get some decent viewing figures. 
 

As a wider point - my opinion on women’s football is neutral. I’m happy for the team that got the final and I’m happy that many more girls are participating in the sport. That’s fantastic. I’m happy for everyone involved and everyone who will get involved in the future. 
 

But…. I started out with basically zero opinion on women’s football. If women want to play football then that’s great. I’m not gonna try to stop you and I wish you all the very best. 
What actually turns many people against it, is the constant push push push by the media to make us ‘HAVE’ to like it otherwise were sexist. 
 

As said, I personally have no interest. Haven’t watched any of this World Cup and didn’t watch any of the euros last year. And I don’t think I ever will. 
That should be fine. But it’s not - the media are making it appear abhorrent if you take no interest in womens football. 
 

I take zero interest in womens sailing, but a quick glance at this summers world championships and I see that a large number of British women performed exceptionally in a number of disciplines. 
I didn’t see a huge media clamour for everyone to watch the women’s kite or dinghy finals. Why not? Those girls have done equally as well and worked equally as hard to get to the very top of their sport. 
 

The reason we weren’t all encouraged to watch the womens windsurfing world finals was because the tv companies know that there isn’t enough interest in it. And that’s fine. The women who compete in those sports no doubt are fully aware of the wider viewership and interest in their sport and it doesn’t stop them persevering and competing to their very best. 
 

This is the whole crux of the matter for me. For those people, like me, who have no interest in watching women’s football, it’s very difficult to ignore it, as we hear about it almost every day in various media outlets and we are being almost forced into being aware of its existence. 
I had no idea of the existence of the womens sailing championships. Why am I being cajoled into having to appreciate one and not the other? 
 

It’s not just women’s sports though. I have absolutely no interest in men’s rugby league. I have absolutely no interest in men’s snooker. I have absolutely no interest in many other men’s sports. But I’m not expected to and am not judged because of it. With womens football, for many years it was there and people who wanted to enjoy could do so. But in recent years it’s become the political ‘football’ that you absolutely must engage with or you are a bigot. 
 

As I said at the start. Good luck to every single woman or girl who plays football. Excellent. I love it. But good luck too to all those girls who are sailors, gymnasts, athletes, rugby players, squash players, table tennis, paragliding, rowing, swimming etc etc. The very best of luck to all of you. I won’t be watching your particular chosen sport (maybe the occasional Olympic final) but please, enjoy yourself and have a great time. 

[AshtonGreat]

5 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Ok. I will get slated but is woman's football still a ‘minority’ sport? 

I accept the National tournaments draw the crowds but look for instance at Arsenal ladies. The men play in front the of 50k plus each week… the woman about 2k? 
How many of us on OTIB could name any of the BCFC woman's team. I suspect very few. 
Best of luck to those who play woman's football and those who support it, but apart from the rules it is night and day difference as a spectator sport compared to mens pro game. 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by AshtonGreat

[frenchred]

When women's football attracts the cash the men's does then they can campaign for equal pay.

It's a minority sport that cannot be compared to the men's game, it differs so much in terms of physicality, speed, awareness, skill and technical ability it's almost a different game!

When will the politically correct among us get real?

[1960maaan]

To pay the same for Women as Men would be impossible, and it's not jus gate money or ticket prices, it TV money. 
That great horrible all controlling cloud that hangs over the game and makes competition so hard if you're not in the Prem.
 

11 minutes ago, Harry said:

The simple answer to the opening question lies in the TV deal for the womens World Cup. 
In many countries, there were no TV companies who were willing to pay what FIFA were demanding. 
That evidences quite clearly that the TV companies didn’t want to throw money at it, and I guess the BBC only picked this up and paid for it in the latter stages once they knew they’d get some decent viewing figures. 

The deal was done 6 weeks before the tournament I believe, but by then the BBC would have been in a good position to get the deal cheap I imagine. 
The interest is there though;

Australia's win over France in the quarter-finals had a peak audience of 7.2 million on Channel Seven. The figures surpass that of the 2003 Rugby World Cup final between Australia and England which garnered around four million viewers.
And;
The FIFA Women's World Cup semi-final between Australia and England in Sydney has produced record television viewing figures in the host country.The match, which finished 3-1 at Stadium Australia in England's favour, drew an audience of 11.15 million at its peak.
Meanwhile in England;
The match garnered a peak audience of 7.3 million on BBC TV while an additional 3.8 million streamed the fixture on the broadcaster's online platforms. There were also 2.7 million requests for highlights and clips from the game. 

But that means little until there is more than one bidder to force the price up. The next big tournament may be bigger , better and more coverage, but that will do little for the Leagues. 
Arsenal Women play 5 games at the Emerates, otherwise they play in a 4,500 capacity Stadium. 
£6.9 m turnover for 20-21, the mens around £370m 

It really isn't the same game ..... yet ?

[MarcusX]

6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

How would you finance this? 

I coach for a footballing charity. We receive funding from the FA. Would you take the funding we receive away to pay International women footballers far more? 

 

 

England Men and Women are already paid equally for Internationals

[Cowshed]

2 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

England Men and Women are already paid equally for Internationals

Match fee.

England men and women receive very different payment for playing/being part of squads. 

 

[frenchred]

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Match fee.

England men and women receive very different payment for playing/being part of squads. 

 

I don't believe the men take theirs but donate it to charity 

[Charlie BCFC]

7 hours ago, shahanshahan said:

Too early in the day (especially when it's a World Cup final) for me to think about.

Lewes FC are one club who do pay their male & female players the same....

This is down to coverage of the two teams which is to be expected when the men’s are in the 7th tier of men’s football and women’s are in the 2nd. I’m sure someone can correct me but don’t think there’s any other team who have rankings like that.

 

[CheddarReds]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

The simple answer to the opening question lies in the TV deal for the womens World Cup. 
In many countries, there were no TV companies who were willing to pay what FIFA were demanding. 
That evidences quite clearly that the TV companies didn’t want to throw money at it, and I guess the BBC only picked this up and paid for it in the latter stages once they knew they’d get some decent viewing figures. 
 

As a wider point - my opinion on women’s football is neutral. I’m happy for the team that got the final and I’m happy that many more girls are participating in the sport. That’s fantastic. I’m happy for everyone involved and everyone who will get involved in the future. 
 

But…. I started out with basically zero opinion on women’s football. If women want to play football then that’s great. I’m not gonna try to stop you and I wish you all the very best. 
What actually turns many people against it, is the constant push push push by the media to make us ‘HAVE’ to like it otherwise were sexist. 
 

As said, I personally have no interest. Haven’t watched any of this World Cup and didn’t watch any of the euros last year. And I don’t think I ever will. 
That should be fine. But it’s not - the media are making it appear abhorrent if you take no interest in womens football. 
 

I take zero interest in womens sailing, but a quick glance at this summers world championships and I see that a large number of British women performed exceptionally in a number of disciplines. 
I didn’t see a huge media clamour for everyone to watch the women’s kite or dinghy finals. Why not? Those girls have done equally as well and worked equally as hard to get to the very top of their sport. 
 

The reason we weren’t all encouraged to watch the womens windsurfing world finals was because the tv companies know that there isn’t enough interest in it. And that’s fine. The women who compete in those sports no doubt are fully aware of the wider viewership and interest in their sport and it doesn’t stop them persevering and competing to their very best. 
 

This is the whole crux of the matter for me. For those people, like me, who have no interest in watching women’s football, it’s very difficult to ignore it, as we hear about it almost every day in various media outlets and we are being almost forced into being aware of its existence. 
I had no idea of the existence of the womens sailing championships. Why am I being cajoled into having to appreciate one and not the other? 
 

It’s not just women’s sports though. I have absolutely no interest in men’s rugby league. I have absolutely no interest in men’s snooker. I have absolutely no interest in many other men’s sports. But I’m not expected to and am not judged because of it. With womens football, for many years it was there and people who wanted to enjoy could do so. But in recent years it’s become the political ‘football’ that you absolutely must engage with or you are a bigot. 
 

As I said at the start. Good luck to every single woman or girl who plays football. Excellent. I love it. But good luck too to all those girls who are sailors, gymnasts, athletes, rugby players, squash players, table tennis, paragliding, rowing, swimming etc etc. The very best of luck to all of you. I won’t be watching your particular chosen sport (maybe the occasional Olympic final) but please, enjoy yourself and have a great time. 

I guess the argument is you have an interested in men's football so why not women's, whereas you don't have an interest in snooker regardless of which sex is competing. 

[Harry]

14 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

I guess the argument is you have an interested in men's football so why not women's, whereas you don't have an interest in snooker regardless of which sex is competing. 

Because I watch men’s football, cricket, Cycling and NFL, have a full time job and a young family. I don’t have time for any interest in anything else. 
But the question is : why should I have to explain that? Why would people ‘expect’ me to enjoy women’s football just because I enjoy men’s football? 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Harry

[Laner]

As a percentage of the revenue generated I thought women get a far larger amount than the men. 20% as oppose to 7%. Not saying they shouldn't get more, just highlighting a different view.

[And Its Smith]

@bs3 last few threads are this one, LJ coming back to the club, Gary Johnson coming back as caretaker manager and the bears are bigger than city.

 

WIND UP MERCHANT! 

[Maltshoveller]

18 minutes ago, Harry said:

Because I watch men’s football, cricket, Cycling and NFL, have a full time job and a young family. I don’t have time for any interest in anything else. 
But the question is : why should I have to explain that? Why would people ‘expect’ me to enjoy women’s football just because I enjoy men’s football? 

The thing is Harry

If you have not jumped onto the women's sport band wagon you will be seen as an old  dinosaur by many on here

[AshtonGreat]

3 hours ago, frenchred said:

When women's football attracts the cash the men's does then they can campaign for equal pay.

It's a minority sport that cannot be compared to the men's game, it differs so much in terms of physicality, speed, awareness, skill and technical ability it's almost a different game!

When will the politically correct among us get real?

Some of the football on display at this World Cup was more exciting than what we've seen at AG recently :laugh:

[IAmNick]

14 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

The thing is Harry

If you have not jumped onto the women's sport band wagon you will be seen as an old  dinosaur by many on here

Loads of people have said that though and not a single person has called anyone a dinosaurs or anything negative at all though?

Are any of these people in the room with us right now?

[Mendip City]

Commercially, at club level, it would make no sense to pay equally. 
 

However, after watching yesterday’s dross I could make decent case for paying our men the same as the women!!! 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 hour ago, Laner said:

As a percentage of the revenue generated I thought women get a far larger amount than the men. 20% as oppose to 7%. Not saying they shouldn't get more, just highlighting a different view.

They do and those figures are about right.  As a percentage of the money the tournament generates they are paid way more than the men.

[Harry]

54 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

The thing is Harry

If you have not jumped onto the women's sport band wagon you will be seen as an old  dinosaur by many on here

It’s not necessarily the “jumping on the bandwagon” thing that I care about. 
 

For me, this is how it is ;

I am aware that there is a wagon. 
It has driven through my village for 49 years. 
I’d noticed it a couple of times a few years ago and saw that the wagon was a bit bigger than it was in the years prior. And I thought, hey that’s nice they got themselves a nice wagon. 
But now I get woken up by it driving past my house every day with a loudhailer blaring “you must follow me or else no one will respect you” 

All I ask is that you please just continue to drive past, as you have for 49 years and go and enjoy yourselves 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Harry

[Redtrojan]

My wife said to me this morning ,do you want to stay in and watch the women’s World Cup final or come shopping with me.

 

Message sent from Asda

[Calculus]

11 minutes ago, Redtrojan said:

My wife said to me this morning ,do you want to stay in and watch the women’s World Cup final or come shopping with me.

 

Message sent from Asda

There is no escape from the monstrous regiment of women.

It's been going on for a while:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Blast_of_the_Trumpet_Against_the_Monstruous_Regiment_of_Women

[CheddarReds]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

Because I watch men’s football, cricket, Cycling and NFL, have a full time job and a young family. I don’t have time for any interest in anything else. 
But the question is : why should I have to explain that? Why would people ‘expect’ me to enjoy women’s football just because I enjoy men’s football? 

For what it's worth I'm not judging you or calling you a dinosaur or whatever, it's just an interesting one and I think some people might be confused why you'd have interest in men's but not women's as it's the same sport which is why I ask the question.

I think the answer around what sports we watch isn't as black and white as 'I like men's sport and not women's'.

Like yourself, I don't have time to watch every sport so today I chose to watch the women's world cup final over Premier League games because it was a game attracting more attention and felt like a bigger event. Week to week, however, I'll tune into the Premier League over the WSL because the standard is higher, there is more media interest, I'll have more conversations with friends about it etc. Same reason I'd watch the Premier League over the men's Japanese League. 

Of course the discussion then becomes 'if women had equal media attention then the standard would be higher, you'd have more interest and conversations about it...' at which point it becomes complicated balancing equal opportunity with actual demand.... I certainly don't have the answer to that

 

 

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

For what it's worth I'm not judging you or calling you a dinosaur or whatever, it's just an interesting one and I think some people might be confused why you'd have interest in men's but not women's as it's the same sport which is why I ask the question.

I think the answer around what sports we watch isn't as black and white as 'I like men's sport and not women's'.

Like yourself, I don't have time to watch every sport so today I chose to watch the women's world cup final over Premier League games because it was a game attracting more attention and felt like a bigger event. Week to week, however, I'll tune into the Premier League over the WSL because the standard is higher, there is more media interest, I'll have more conversations with friends about it etc. Same reason I'd watch the Premier League over the men's Japanese League. 

Of course the discussion then becomes 'if women had equal media attention then the standard would be higher, you'd have more interest and conversations about it...' at which point it becomes complicated balancing equal opportunity with actual demand.... I certainly don't have the answer to that

 

 

Yep, no worries, I certainly wasn’t suggesting that you were calling me a dinosaur or some such, but believe me, there is so so much in the media and of course social media which would suggest so. 
For what it’s worth, and I guess more of an answer which you were probably looking for is that, whilst it’s the ‘same game’ being played, I wouldn’t categorise it as the ‘same sport’. 
 

I watch men’s football because I find it interesting, competitive, exciting, passionate, atmospheric, edgy, unpredictable, controversial, and much more. 
Whilst with women’s football the same actual game is being played, I don’t experience any of those things and certainly I don’t feel any emotions. And football is an emotional game. If I don’t feel the emotion then there is no intrigue, for me. 
 

That’s me. It’s ok for me to think that. It’s ok for others to feel differently. But what’s not ok is for people (not you of course, but ‘people’) to say that I’m holding back or belittling the women’s game and I should really get behind it. 
Belittling it or holding it back would be me actively slagging off the game and saying such bollocks like “women shouldn’t play football” etc (which admittedly some Neanderthals do).  I’m not doing that. I’m happy for everyone that takes part and enjoys it and wish them all the best. I’m just not at all interested in it and would prefer that there wasn’t a massive agenda (which there undeniably is) to get people to like it and make out that they are bad people if they don’t. 
 

Ultimately I feel zero emotion toward it. That’s why I tried to make a comparison to windsurfing, or snooker etc. I have zero emotional attachment to those sports and therefore I’m really not at all bothered about them. For my own personal tastes it’s in the same category. 
But, the more the agenda is pushed and pushed, my completely neutral/ambivalent stance may start to teeter toward the dislike camp. Which honestly, I would prefer not to happen. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 hours ago, Harry said:

The simple answer to the opening question lies in the TV deal for the womens World Cup. 
In many countries, there were no TV companies who were willing to pay what FIFA were demanding. 
That evidences quite clearly that the TV companies didn’t want to throw money at it, and I guess the BBC only picked this up and paid for it in the latter stages once they knew they’d get some decent viewing figures. 
 

As a wider point - my opinion on women’s football is neutral. I’m happy for the team that got the final and I’m happy that many more girls are participating in the sport. That’s fantastic. I’m happy for everyone involved and everyone who will get involved in the future. 
 

But…. I started out with basically zero opinion on women’s football. If women want to play football then that’s great. I’m not gonna try to stop you and I wish you all the very best. 
What actually turns many people against it, is the constant push push push by the media to make us ‘HAVE’ to like it otherwise were sexist. 
 

As said, I personally have no interest. Haven’t watched any of this World Cup and didn’t watch any of the euros last year. And I don’t think I ever will. 
That should be fine. But it’s not - the media are making it appear abhorrent if you take no interest in womens football. 
 

I take zero interest in womens sailing, but a quick glance at this summers world championships and I see that a large number of British women performed exceptionally in a number of disciplines. 
I didn’t see a huge media clamour for everyone to watch the women’s kite or dinghy finals. Why not? Those girls have done equally as well and worked equally as hard to get to the very top of their sport. 
 

The reason we weren’t all encouraged to watch the womens windsurfing world finals was because the tv companies know that there isn’t enough interest in it. And that’s fine. The women who compete in those sports no doubt are fully aware of the wider viewership and interest in their sport and it doesn’t stop them persevering and competing to their very best. 
 

This is the whole crux of the matter for me. For those people, like me, who have no interest in watching women’s football, it’s very difficult to ignore it, as we hear about it almost every day in various media outlets and we are being almost forced into being aware of its existence. 
I had no idea of the existence of the womens sailing championships. Why am I being cajoled into having to appreciate one and not the other? 
 

It’s not just women’s sports though. I have absolutely no interest in men’s rugby league. I have absolutely no interest in men’s snooker. I have absolutely no interest in many other men’s sports. But I’m not expected to and am not judged because of it. With womens football, for many years it was there and people who wanted to enjoy could do so. But in recent years it’s become the political ‘football’ that you absolutely must engage with or you are a bigot. 
 

As I said at the start. Good luck to every single woman or girl who plays football. Excellent. I love it. But good luck too to all those girls who are sailors, gymnasts, athletes, rugby players, squash players, table tennis, paragliding, rowing, swimming etc etc. The very best of luck to all of you. I won’t be watching your particular chosen sport (maybe the occasional Olympic final) but please, enjoy yourself and have a great time. 

I used to watch it long before we were made to feel like we have to watch it. 

I remember many moons ago going to an England game at the memorial ground. 

Watched many world cups before but now I've not watched a single game because I don't like feeling as if I have to watch something. 

[pillred]

16 hours ago, bs3 said:

Isn’t about time the women footballers deserve equal pay with the men .

How in 2023 this situation is allowed to continue, surely the government must put through legislation that women and men are paid the same .

I see I’m not alone in this call there are many MPs and high (and low) profile celebrities demanding action on this issue.

Your local band playing at the Dog and Duck sell 100 tickets at a fiver each for their gig so get paid £400 after expenses, Taylor Swift sells out Wembley at £150 a ticket and gets paid £1 million, do you see where this is going?

[BCFCAL]

18 hours ago, IAmNick said:

The arguments about how much money the game makes is a shame I think, because we fund lots of things in society which we think are important but don't make loads of money - and I think that's a good thing. There are other ways to judge worth imo.

Let's also remember that many, many men's teams including our own don't cover their - losses to the tune of millions a year - and rely on wealthy individuals to prop them up. Maybe we should apply the same arguments above to the men's game?

I'm not saying I think they should be paid the same currently but I also think there's too much disparity. I also think you have to accept that if you want to encourage things like this it will cost money and need to be "pushed" to some degree or things will never change.

I don't think something or someone's worth is purely measured by how much they monitarily contribute to their business, but clearly others disagree.

I don't think there's anything wrong with subsiding things like that as a society.

You clearly don't read our match day threads then! 

The disparity is quite bad IMO, the Dallas FC u15s don't get paid anything, whereas the women (current WC Champs at the time) were getting £400,000+!

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

I actually watched the final, the only game I watched, and it wasn't bad, apart from certain parts which were amateurish. It's getting better, but you can't compare it to the top 1% of men's football. I haven't seen any league 2 players request £400,000 p/a (asking for the same as the women), it's silly. I also think the game could be a lot better if changes were implemented, like a slightly smaller pitch and goals - to make it more technical but less physical, but it won't happen because they care more about their ego as opposed to entertainment.

Edited August 21, 2023 by BCFCAL

[MarcusX]

8 minutes ago, BCFCAL said:

The disparity is quite bad IMO, the Dallas FC u15s don't get paid anything, whereas the women (current WC Champs at the time) were getting £400,000+!

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

I actually watched the final, the only game I watched, and it wasn't bad, apart from certain parts which were amateurish. It's getting better, but you can't compare it to the top 1% of men's football. I haven't seen any league 2 players request £400,000 p/a (asking for the same as the women), it's silly. I also think the game could be a lot better if changes were implemented, like a slightly smaller pitch and goals - to make it more technical but less physical, but it won't happen because they care more about their ego as opposed to entertainment.

That wasn’t even a proper game (as such) it’s not like the US women went out there with 100% intention to win. It was a training game.

Its one thing to not have an interest in women’s football (can’t say I do beyond England and major tournaments), but some seem keen to try and belittle it still for some reason.

 

[LondonBristolian]

What I’ve found quite remarkable is my nephews - who are both under 10 have the same level of excitement about the women’s World Cup and Euros as they did about the men’s (and unfortunately a damn sight more than their first Bristol City game - West Brom on Boxing Day was a bad choice!). I find the change in perception of women’s football over just a few years to be remarkable. 
 

Economically it is hard to make a case for equal pay right now given the different revenues both sports bring in (that said, it is hard to argue that the economic model of men’s football is sustainable within itself or good for society and it might be that eventually the money in one game comes up whilst the other comes down).

But I suspect is that in thirty years time, our present society will look very strange for treating and paying for men’s and women’s football so differently. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by LondonBristolian