Another big away following on the cards

[Mr Popodopolous]

I fully get the desire at that time to reopen the East End. It did have the best acoustics at that time and it was our traditional end? Even if like everywhere else in the top two divisions it had to go all seater.

However the East End has gone and a large away following behind the goal where many stand will give a boost to opposition albeit for one half especially when they're playing towards.

If we had City fans, even a moderate number behind that goal it reduces. What about those who moved to E34? Probably different entrance and logistics to resolve but you reduce the away allocation and after segregation then provided we have room you offer them a bit of the Atyeo.

Clearly what with Cup game rules and the theoretical possibility of promotion one day you would need to consider these possibilities ie the 3k or 10 pct rule in the PL, the FA Cup rule is even higher.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Rob k]

34 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I fully get the desire at that time to reopen the East End. It did have the best acoustics at that time and it was our traditional end? Even if like everywhere else in the top two divisions it had to go all seater.

However the East End has gone and a large away following behind the goal where many stand will give a boost to opposition albeit for one half especially when they're playing towards.

If we had City fans, even a moderate number behind that goal it reduces. What about those who moved to E34? Probably different entrance and logistics to resolve but you reduce the away allocation and after segregation then provided we have room you offer them a bit of the Atyeo.

Clearly what with Cup game rules and the theoretical possibility of promotion one day you would need to consider these possibilities ie the 3k or 10 pct rule in the PL, the FA Cup rule is even higher.

Where are these fans going to move from? I would imagine the majority would be from the south stand, so you move one set of fans from an end stand to another. 
Let’s not forget, it was also a lot cheaper to sit in the East End which suited a lot of people. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Rob k

[RUSSEL85]

No issues with 3,000+ WBA Fans, yes they make a noise but if 18,000 City fans cant make more noise than 3,000 WBA fans then its our issue IMO.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Where are these fans going to move from? I would imagine the majority would be from the south stand, so you move one set of fans from an end stand to another. 
Let’s not forget, it was also a lot cheaper to sit in the East End which suited a lot of people. 

That is true, price is a pull factor. Football used to be much cheaper for all but that's all in the past.

I'd be interested to know where exactly in the ground they came from, clearly it has caused an issue in E34 so sticking them in the Atyeo could reduce said issues provided it's properly policed and stewarded.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

No issues with 3,000+ WBA Fans, yes they make a noise but if 18,000 City fans cant make more noise than 3,000 WBA fans then its our issue IMO.

Problem is well this simplistic of me. Yeah no great issue in itself, more that away fans these days more statistically likely to stand. If you can get the bulk to sit they'll be that much quieter. Whereas if you're a regular or ST holder ground regs all-seater means all-seater hence why we need a bigger area probably with Safe Standing or similar.

More likely to stand me and more likely to sing etc (IMO) which means more noise.

[RUSSEL85]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Problem is well this simplistic of me. Yeah no great issue in itself, more that away fans these days more statistically likely to stand. If you can get the bulk to sit they'll be that much quieter. Whereas if you're a regular or ST holder ground regs all-seater means all-seater hence why we need a bigger area probably with Safe Standing or similar.

More likely to stand me and more likely to sing etc (IMO) which means more noise.

Bet we stand and make lots of noise if 2 down in 15 mins 

[maxjak]

4 hours ago, pongo88 said:

I think the view that the Atyeo Stand design generates more noise is a myth. I can remember when home fans were in the Atyeo they complained that the design of the stand allowed the noise to escape! 

Did u hear Birmingham supporters on Sat?  I am not saying it is   acoustic Perfection!......But anything would be better than the present arrangement  IMO.  

[Redandproud]

On 21/08/2023 at 11:27, 2015 said:

Giving the away fans the entire Atyeo has been a massive mistake. It needs to be half and half.

I've said this several times,it makes a better atmosphere 

[NcnsBcfc]

I don't believe in coincidences and I'm sure until recently at least it was reported that 80% of the away team goals were scored in front of their own fans in the Atyeo stand.

We can criticise LJ all we want, but he recognised the issue.

Lee Johnson asks Bristol City to reconsider where away fans sit at Ashton Gate - Bristol Live (bristolpost.co.uk)

 

 

[Cidre Monita]

22 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A good post but where we are getting 26.5k from? Was under the impression ground held 27k as a starting point and then work backwards from there.

Gould kept us in the loop quite well but people will have different views on this..it all feels a little rudderless on the exec side. A sense of drift.

Upper Lansdown would be nice but the kids area up there..directors Lower Lansdown hmm.

Fair point on the 1k from a financial perspective but to what extent does it give the opposition a major lift? Quite a good one IMO. Playing towards an end of your fairly noisy fans, across 3/4 of a stand, maybe slightly more. Mostly standing as a big group.

(Good luck getting them to sit).

Standing fans are on average I would suggest more likely to sing which in turn lifts their side and the two can feed off each other. If we got say 2 up first half hour, the equation would change drastically and their noise surely dissipates.

26500 is closer to the capacity, it seems to get rounded up.

Bristol Bears , no segregation, sold out with 26399 ( https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/record-crowd-set-bristol-bears-3428274 ) , Man City game sold out, with 800 seats not sold in the Atyeo, 25700 , game vs Preston this season, home area sold out, 1357 Preston tickets (out of 4400 in Atyeo) attendance 23330, suggesting agan 26373 would have been capacity. 

[Leveller]

17 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

The owners just want easy profit. 

Quite funny bearing in mind they regularly hand over £13m+ per year to cover the losses!

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

5 hours ago, RUSSEL85 said:

No issues with 3,000+ WBA Fans, yes they make a noise but if 18,000 City fans cant make more noise than 3,000 WBA fans then its our issue IMO.

This is spot on, play good football and our supporters will be loud (as evidenced at times last season) and equally, if we are battering the opposition, theirs will be quiet ..

The problem is with the football bit. We were producing garbage prior to Christmas last year and then it suddenly turned, and for a couple of months at least, we did well at home and the crowd responded

AG is slated as being quiet but, with a few notable exceptions, we haven't really produced anything exciting since Cotts was in charge. 

Improve the football, get some players with flair and drive going (we have some) and things will quickly change...

Continue to try and replicate Pepe ball without Debruyne and co and minus forward passes, and it will bore the paying public rigid and then, like now, there will be no atmosphere 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

26500 is closer to the capacity, it seems to get rounded up.

Bristol Bears , no segregation, sold out with 26399 ( https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/record-crowd-set-bristol-bears-3428274 ) , Man City game sold out, with 800 seats not sold in the Atyeo, 25700 , game vs Preston this season, home area sold out, 1357 Preston tickets (out of 4400 in Atyeo) attendance 23330, suggesting agan 26373 would have been capacity. 

Thank you.

That is pretty odd then, suggests to me that the full Atyeo may not be available verbatim?

Dolman holds at least 6k, I thought. Lansdown 11k, South Stand 6k?

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Anyway suppose a more pertinent q is what is the capacity of the Atyeo and if you gave 2k to away fans, what level of segregation would be required and how many home fans could you squeeze in?

[Cidre Monita]

24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Anyway suppose a more pertinent q is what is the capacity of the Atyeo and if you gave 2k to away fans, what level of segregation would be required and how many home fans could you squeeze in?

Based on past experiments, it loses over 1000/1500 seats, so you get 2k away fans, 1 k home fans. It is a rather bizarre situation. The most "seat-effective" solution in terms of selling, would be to give the whole stand to away fans, but as we saw against Man City, police advice for segregation means that 800 seats are lost, taking the Atyeo to 3600 capacity. So the real capacity at AG for football, with segregation,is the Man City game, 25700. It is not 27000. 

City is not alone, it seems that many stadiums are built with no provision for away fan positioning and segregation. 

Hardly a major concern for City in the Championship, as we have enough capcity for home fans with a team mid table. But it does highlight the issue of away fan amangement, and a stadium size caapcity issue if (we must dream) if one day there was sustained success. But the underlying comment remains, away fan mangement (tickets available, position in ground, cup game requirments) and our own singing section stuck in a corner (with/without safe standing) . It is a compex mix of commercial, safety, atmosphere , optimisation of the stadium etc. There is no perfect solution, maybe we have it already within the current stadium set up. No idea without more detail.

From a purely traditional sense (and selfish point of view) vocal fans behind the goal again would be a step forward. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

28 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

Based on past experiments, it loses over 1000/1500 seats, so you get 2k away fans, 1 k home fans. It is a rather bizarre situation. The most "seat-effective" solution in terms of selling, would be to give the whole stand to away fans, but as we saw against Man City, police advice for segregation means that 800 seats are lost, taking the Atyeo to 3600 capacity. So the real capacity at AG for football, with segregation,is the Man City game, 25700. It is not 27000. 

City is not alone, it seems that many stadiums are built with no provision for away fan positioning and segregation. 

Hardly a major concern for City in the Championship, as we have enough capcity for home fans with a team mid table. But it does highlight the issue of away fan amangement, and a stadium size caapcity issue if (we must dream) if one day there was sustained success. But the underlying comment remains, away fan mangement (tickets available, position in ground, cup game requirments) and our own singing section stuck in a corner (with/without safe standing) . It is a compex mix of commercial, safety, atmosphere , optimisation of the stadium etc. There is no perfect solution, maybe we have it already within the current stadium set up. No idea without more detail.

From a purely traditional sense (and selfish point of view) vocal fans behind the goal again would be a step forward. 

 

Thank you, that is fairly comprehensive.

Do you mean the 2018 Man City game or the recent one?

800 to segregation seems a bit high, not doubting your figures but as a ratio. A little more detail @lenred 800 segregation??

2k away, 1k home and the rest in effect segregated and or unavailable?

Agree with a lot of this post and worth considering of course as I mentioned that PL requirements constitute 3k or 10 pct of capacity, the lower of the 2. 2.6-2.7k then.

Which would leave just a few hundred for home fans based on the seats being lost aspect. Certainly under 1,000, perhaps even a bit under 500.

As you say a huge need doesn't exist just yet but the amount of segregation required does seem high..at Millwall was there not just one block.

Ah yes checked the 2023 game, they got 3,414.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Rob k]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thank you, that is fairly comprehensive.

Do you mean the 2018 Man City game or the recent one?

800 to segregation seems a bit high, not doubting your figures but as a ratio. A little more detail @lenred 800 segregation??

2k away, 1k home and the rest in effect segregated and or unavailable?

Agree with a lot of this post and worth considering of course as I mentioned that PL requirements constitute 3k or 10 pct of capacity, the lower of the 2. 2.6-2.7k then.

Which would leave just a few hundred for home fans based on the seats being lost aspect. Certainly under 1,000, perhaps even a bit under 500.

As you say a huge need doesn't exist just yet but the amount of segregation required does seem high..at Millwall was there not just one block.

Ah yes checked the 2023 game, they got 3,414.

God knows why there needs to be segregation when the stand is not even attached to the other ones!! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Rob k said:

God knows why there needs to be segregation when the stand is not even attached to the other ones!! 

If that was the case then they surely could sell the whole Atyeo to away fans!

I'm not saying they should btw! That would really be an even bigger advantage but 4k, 4.2k whatever could easily be feasible if no segregation. Maybe it isn't segregation but there must be a reason why if away fan only, the whole stand could not be theoretically sold.

Keep police bill down maybe? The 10 pct reduction in areas of Persistent Standing perhaps? (Away fans persistently stand ergo -10 pct to manage it better)

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[archie andrews]

3 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

26500 is closer to the capacity, it seems to get rounded up.

Bristol Bears , no segregation, sold out with 26399 ( https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/record-crowd-set-bristol-bears-3428274 ) , Man City game sold out, with 800 seats not sold in the Atyeo, 25700 , game vs Preston this season, home area sold out, 1357 Preston tickets (out of 4400 in Atyeo) attendance 23330, suggesting agan 26373 would have been capacity. 

Our head of whatever was on radio bristol this morning and said capacity is 27,500....

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

Our head of whatever was on radio bristol this morning and said capacity is 27,500....

Is that for football or all sports?

Can you link? Radio Bristol I assume, what time..am surprised if that is correct given the segregation etc.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

By the way the Safety Advisory Group have been a pain in the arse for years.

Who remembers this?

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37533021/bristol-city-cardiff-severnside-derby-moved-again-policing-row

The reasons stated were...sketchy.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Edit. Probably the wrong organisation.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Cidre Monita]

1 hour ago, archie andrews said:

Our head of whatever was on radio bristol this morning and said capacity is 27,500....

They are in for a shock then.

[marmite]

Give WBA 3500 and attendance will prob be 23 / 24000. Limit them to 2000 and gate will drop by 1500. Its simple economics and that's what SL cares about. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 21/08/2023 at 11:22, lenred said:

Off the top of my head I cannot think of any team that has the isolation we do now....

QPR, Rotherham, Sheffield Wednesday?

[Homer Simpson]

13 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is that for football or all sports?

Can you link? Radio Bristol I assume, what time..am surprised if that is correct given the segregation etc.

I have uploaded this a few times. As far as I'm aware this is the only time the exact number of seats has been referenced by the club.

[Bris Red]

11 hours ago, marmite said:

Give WBA 3500 and attendance will prob be 23 / 24000. Limit them to 2000 and gate will drop by 1500. Its simple economics and that's what SL cares about. 

Indeed. Its a numbers game for the bean counters and SL. They couldn’t give a toss about the atmosphere or lack of it.

[Phileas Fogg]

The owners have never really wanted AG to be loud and vociferous. In all the time I can remember, they've done the absolute minimum to aid fans in improving the atmosphere.

The current "singing section" in the corner is just a token gesture. It's physically as far away from the away fans as possible so you don't get that interaction which acts as a catalyst. The group in there gives it a good go, but it is a losing battle in that location. Most serious clubs don't do this, they support fans who want to develop a home atmosphere.

The owners want to encourage a family atmosphere at AG, and that's clearly their preferred customer. That's fine, but there's room for both. 

The big mistake was the redesign - that was a brilliant opportunity to totally reset AG and cater to everyone. As mentioned earlier, the obvious thing to do was move away fans into the Atyeo end corner of the Dolman/Lansdown and have the Atyeo as a proper home end. I have absolutely no doubt that if that was implemented at the time, with encouragement and support given to that group thus allowing them to develop, the atmosphere would be incomparably better.

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Phileas Fogg

[Mad Cyril]

12 hours ago, marmite said:

Give WBA 3500 and attendance will prob be 23 / 24000. Limit them to 2000 and gate will drop by 1500. Its simple economics and that's what SL cares about. 

Every poster on here who is demanding new signings and contracts should also care. To spend, you need to generate.

Even better if it is another club who is paying.

As for the importance of where our fans are sat, let's get the crowd staying to the end and not focussed on paper planes first.... 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Homer Simpson said:

I have uploaded this a few times. As far as I'm aware this is the only time the exact number of seats has been referenced by the club.

Thank you.

Interesting, 26,459 plus a number of restrictions in addition. Safety Advisory Group..although some of this was obviously segregation in Atyeo what else?

-10 pct for persistent standing of Singers and away fans maybe?

The rationale for these restrictions when the Atyeo was shared really should be explained.

2k away, 1k home if the Atyeo was reopened or would it be more 2k away, 500 home?

Edited August 23, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous