England

[Maltshoveller]

20 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No he probably isn’t but he plays that role of unglamorous midfielder very well. Very good at set pieces.

Top teams don’t necessarily have world class individual players in every single position anyway, but have players who play their role very effectively.(Rabiot for France or De Paul for Argentina for example). These players allow the world class attacking talent (Mbappe/Messi/Kane/Bellingham etc) to shine. I feel JWP is one of those.

Regardless, Henderson being selected over him is ridiculous.

I used to think he was overrated, but was impressed with what he did with Newcastle last season. 

He took over at a great time 

The Toon would have been happy with Hitler being in charge as long as Ashley was gone 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

3 hours ago, Maltshoveller said:

He took over at a great time 

The Toon would have been happy with Hitler being in charge as long as Ashley was gone 

 

I’d argue it was a tricky time to take over. Having money doesn’t necessarily guarantee success - look at Chelsea.

He’s recruited very well and improved players who were already there.

[Cowshed]

9 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Whilst I don't think we should limit ourselves, my strong preference would be for an English coach. 

I don't think Pep, with his wildly complicated training methods and tactics and general obsessiveness over every detail, would be well-suited to managing internationally, where time on the training ground is so limited. 

International management requires a different approach and skillset to club management, and I actually think England have stumbled on someone in Southgate who is actually very well suited to that role. 

 

Lee Johnson was wildly complicated.

Guardiola training methods establishing a model of play simplify the training and football. 

Gareth Southgate uses aspects of Guardiola's football. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Cowshed

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

On 10/09/2023 at 21:32, Show Me The Money! said:

So which non-clueless realistic coach should we be employing?

 

So you’re saying to stick with Southgate?

Whose previous managerial achievements before England is getting Middlesbrough relegated! 
 

He doesn’t have the tactical noise to change a game got 2 very lucky routes in tournaments to go deep but if you look at the first World Cup we lost 3 games out of 7 that’s piss poor! 
 

[And Its Smith]

Eddie Howe has a very nice run of games coming up.  Next 8 games most are winnable.  I’d say if he doesn’t get a healthy return from those then he’s out on his ear.  

[MarcusX]

On 10/09/2023 at 11:34, Alex_BCFC said:

Maguire hasn’t really let england down and I don’t see an abundance of options. Him and Stones have been good together so not sure I’d be changing that right now.

Exactly this. I think it’s become a bit of a bandwagon that people jump on now and it’s funny to mock him for some reason. Had one on here saying Maguires been poor in our last 4 games, despite 3 clean sheets and a win over Italy (which in fairness he was poor in).

half of the problem with Maguire is United are a basket case at the moment (and their fans are idiots, booing him). Sancho’s career has died out there, Rashford is looking a shadow of himself again, Ronaldo seemed forced out in the end.

International football is very different to club football, you can’t just chuck in 2 CBS who haven’t played together into a tricky Ukraine away game (maybe do it at Malta home!)

On 10/09/2023 at 17:42, Super said:

I like JWP but always felt he isn't top quality hence why no big teams wanted him.

That’s my view. And who would he replace? Argument he could be in the squad but there’s dozens of players who could make up numbers in the squad and someone has to miss out.

11 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Impossible to say anyone would *definitely* do better than Southgate. I think though, if we're insisting on an English coach, those are the two stand-out options.

I know people will cite Potter's time at Chelsea, but I think that was clearly an anomaly. I don't think many managers would achieve what they expect given how that club is being run.

My choice would be to not limit ourselves to a purely English coach. 

Not sure Chelsea is necessarily an anomaly. Again, international football is very different to club football, would he have the same joy he found at Brighton in much less training time?

Some managers just suit certain teams / at certain times and can’t repeat it when they move.

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That’s my view too.  His Player / Squad selection is quite club-like, but playing wise you just have to go with what you have, there’s little training time per se.

This is a large part of it, it’s a longer trajectory to get players up to speed. You need to bring players into the squad around your core players.

Thats why Maguire starts for me at the moment, because Stones isn’t there someone with experience has to.

FWIW I wouldn’t necessarily be against Southgate leaving. He’s done a brilliant job of bringing everyone together to support the team but there’s now a risk of undoing that if we don’t have a “good” tournament and in most people’s eyes that will be reaching the final, minimum.

 

[MarcusX]

On 10/09/2023 at 15:01, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

Roberto do Matteo for one!

Are you calling him clueless or suggesting him for the job??

[redkev]

26 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Exactly this. I think it’s become a bit of a bandwagon that people jump on now and it’s funny to mock him for some reason. Had one on here saying Maguires been poor in our last 4 games, despite 3 clean sheets and a win over Italy (which in fairness he was poor in).

half of the problem with Maguire is United are a basket case at the moment (and their fans are idiots, booing him). Sancho’s career has died out there, Rashford is looking a shadow of himself again, Ronaldo seemed forced out in the end.

International football is very different to club football, you can’t just chuck in 2 CBS who haven’t played together into a tricky Ukraine away game (maybe do it at Malta home!)

That’s my view. And who would he replace? Argument he could be in the squad but there’s dozens of players who could make up numbers in the squad and someone has to miss out.

Not sure Chelsea is necessarily an anomaly. Again, international football is very different to club football, would he have the same joy he found at Brighton in much less training time?

Some managers just suit certain teams / at certain times and can’t repeat it when they move.

This is a large part of it, it’s a longer trajectory to get players up to speed. You need to bring players into the squad around your core players.

Thats why Maguire starts for me at the moment, because Stones isn’t there someone with experience has to.

FWIW I wouldn’t necessarily be against Southgate leaving. He’s done a brilliant job of bringing everyone together to support the team but there’s now a risk of undoing that if we don’t have a “good” tournament and in most people’s eyes that will be reaching the final, minimum.

 

Wasn’t so long ago Stones was the scape goat if my memory isn’t playing tricks on me .

It’s not ideal situation but is there really any one out there apart from stones ( on present form I know he’s injured ) that steps in ahead of McGuire , 

for me unless some centre back starts tearing it up at league level or mcguires form dips ( for England ) he played 

[And Its Smith]

43 minutes ago, redkev said:

Wasn’t so long ago Stones was the scape goat if my memory isn’t playing tricks on me .

It’s not ideal situation but is there really any one out there apart from stones ( on present form I know he’s injured ) that steps in ahead of McGuire , 

for me unless some centre back starts tearing it up at league level or mcguires form dips ( for England ) he played 

Tomori was named best centre back in Serie A last season. Not seen him play for ages but can’t see Maguire getting that honour if he played there 

[North London Red]

A picture from the closing stages of the game in Wrocław on Saturday. It’s a great city. 
 

Just arrived in Glasgow for tomorrow’s game. Thankfully a few degrees milder than both Wroclaw and London have been for the last few days. 

[Malago]

I see we’ve been allocated less than 3,000 tickets.

The FA should have insisted we were given the whole Celtic end, about 12,000 tickets.

[Taylor10]

3 hours ago, redkev said:

Wasn’t so long ago Stones was the scape goat if my memory isn’t playing tricks on me .

It’s not ideal situation but is there really any one out there apart from stones ( on present form I know he’s injured ) that steps in ahead of McGuire , 

for me unless some centre back starts tearing it up at league level or mcguires form dips ( for England ) he played 

Maguire rarely let’s England down. It’s far from ideal but I would say this is the only area/position we lack any real depth or quality currently.

Levi Colwill has all the attributes and if he continues to develop throughout this season he could well be the one pushing to start at the euros next year. Aside from that who is there? He obviously doesn’t rate Tomori. I like Guehi but he hasn’t shown enough to start over either Stones or Maguire which then leads us back to those two.

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

8 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Are you calling him clueless or suggesting him for the job??

Both!

[Super]

Forget the game Saturday against Ukraine this is the bigger game tonight.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Super

[Alex_BCFC]

8 hours ago, Malago said:

I see we’ve been allocated less than 3,000 tickets.

The FA should have insisted we were given the whole Celtic end, about 12,000 tickets.

Not sure if you are joking…Why would we get almost 25% allocation? I think we got a fair few more last time we played here though. Luckily I’ve got a ticket but they don’t have to have more than 5% I don’t think. 

[Kid in the Riot]

Think Barney Ronay summed things up nicely on Football Weekly. Paraphrasing:

"Southgate can't win now. If he does win the Euros next summer then he will be absolutely berated by some for not winning the two previous tournaments!" 

[petehinton]

What I’ve never quite understood about Southgate outers, is what was expected? Do people really think we should’ve won the Euros and WC back to back?
 

We took it as far as was literally possible without winning it in 2021, and the World Cup last year Kane scores that penalty against France and who knows..

But the only alternative I can think of for those who don’t want him in charge or think he is ‘ruining our chances’, is that we really should’ve won two major tournaments in a row after we’ve gone 56 without winning one. And we should score 5 or 6 goals in every game or something. 

[And Its Smith]

10 minutes ago, petehinton said:

What I’ve never quite understood about Southgate outers, is what was expected? Do people really think we should’ve won the Euros and WC back to back?
 

We took it as far as was literally possible without winning it in 2021, and the World Cup last year Kane scores that penalty against France and who knows..

But the only alternative I can think of for those who don’t want him in charge or think he is ‘ruining our chances’, is that we really should’ve won two major tournaments in a row after we’ve gone 56 without winning one. And we should score 5 or 6 goals in every game or something. 

I think a lot of fans will never appreciate the small margins that can dictate a football result.  I work in sales and i tell my team to take credit for every single thing that goes there way, whether pure luck or not, as there is no question that someone will blame you when things go wrong out of your control. I think football management is similar in that respect! 

[Northern Red]

I think there's a narrative around the England team under Southgate that developed a while ago, in that the default description of any performance is that it was boring unless we were 3-0 up after 15 minutes. 

[Kid in the Riot]

11 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Tomori was named best centre back in Serie A last season. Not seen him play for ages but can’t see Maguire getting that honour if he played there 

The reason Maguire plays instead of Tomori is because Southgate wants a first ball winner in the centre of defence. Tomori is not that type; he's a covering defender. 

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The reason Maguire plays instead of Tomori is because Southgate wants a first ball winner in the centre of defence. Tomori is not that type; he's a covering defender. 

Fair enough.  I’ve barely seen him play. I think I could name 10 better centre backs than Maguire though 

[97Red]

10 minutes ago, petehinton said:

What I’ve never quite understood about Southgate outers, is what was expected? Do people really think we should’ve won the Euros and WC back to back?
 

We took it as far as was literally possible without winning it in 2021, and the World Cup last year Kane scores that penalty against France and who knows..

But the only alternative I can think of for those who don’t want him in charge or think he is ‘ruining our chances’, is that we really should’ve won two major tournaments in a row after we’ve gone 56 without winning one. And we should score 5 or 6 goals in every game or something. 

Amen. Just because he's Gareth from Watford and he's got a mediocre club management record, oh and he missed a penalty 25 years ago. He gets all the stick and absolutely no credit whatsoever. If Pep Guardiola got us to a Semi Final, a Final and another Quarter Final he'd be heralded as an England managerial legend. 

I will never quite get why the media and social media are always on his back. People seem to forget that Iceland and Euro 2008 weren't so long ago.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

On 10/09/2023 at 18:00, Maltshoveller said:

Is that the same Eddie Howe who some how got a really talented Bournemouth team relegated  

Biggest fraud in English football 

Only in my opinion 

 

That's interesting as I really rate Eddie Howe, he managed to turn a fairly meh Newcastle side around, quite quickly.  Interested as to what you think makes him so bad.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Fair enough.  I’ve barely seen him play. I think I could name 10 better centre backs than Maguire though 

You should go on Tenable with Warwick Davis.

 I bumped into him once, with his family at Disney (Star Wars weekend was coming up and he’d been invited).  I’d just come off a ride with the kids to see Mrs chatting to him and his wife re mobility equipment.  As we left them, I asked how come she was chatting to Warwick Davis.  She said “oooh, is that him, I thought he looked familiar”!  

She has form for this.  She did the same with Charlton Heston too!

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You should go on Tenable with Warwick Davis.

 I bumped into him once, with his family at Disney (Star Wars weekend was coming up and he’d been invited).  I’d just come off a ride with the kids to see Mrs chatting to him and his wife re mobility equipment.  As we left them, I asked how come she was chatting to Warwick Davis.  She said “oooh, is that him, I thought he looked familiar”!  

She has form for this.  She did the same with Charlton Heston too!

It took a while, but got it eventually.

[redysteadygo]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Fair enough.  I’ve barely seen him play. I think I could name 10 better centre backs than Maguire though 

I'm not a Maguire lover but the 10 better than him are they English?

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, redysteadygo said:

I'm not a Maguire lover but the 10 better than him are they English?

Yes but the figure of 10 was off the top of my head. I’ve just tried it. Got to 11.  As you might be able to tell, I’m really not a fan of Maguire! 

Stones

Tomori

Gueye

White

Gomez

Dunk

Webster

Konsa

Mings

Colwill

Kilman

 

[The Coach]

2 hours ago, 97Red said:

Amen. Just because he's Gareth from Watford and he's got a mediocre club management record, oh and he missed a penalty 25 years ago. He gets all the stick and absolutely no credit whatsoever. If Pep Guardiola got us to a Semi Final, a Final and another Quarter Final he'd be heralded as an England managerial legend. 

I will never quite get why the media and social media are always on his back. People seem to forget that Iceland and Euro 2008 weren't so long ago.

But in football terms. They were…

Also believe if Pep got us to the same state it would be the same viewpoint. Regardless of how we were playing.

[phantom]

25 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Yes but the figure of 10 was off the top of my head. I’ve just tried it. Got to 11.  As you might be able to tell, I’m really not a fan of Maguire! 

Stones

Tomori

Gueye

White

Gomez

Dunk

Webster

Konsa

Mings

Colwill

Kilman

 

Zero international experience and apart from one or two that is a very debatable list

[Kid in the Riot]

21 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Yes but the figure of 10 was off the top of my head. I’ve just tried it. Got to 11.  As you might be able to tell, I’m really not a fan of Maguire! 

Stones

Tomori

Gueye

White

Gomez

Dunk

Webster

Konsa

Mings

Colwill

Kilman

Stones would be first choice partner for Maguire but is injured. Tomori, as already discussed, isn't a first ball winner, Guehi played, Ben White won't play for GS again after walking out of camp at Qatar, Gomez plays about as much as Maguire for club (i.e. not much), Dunk probbaly a bit late for him to break into the side now and is he really better? Webster I would say a different defender to Maguire, Mings is injured, Konsa has nowhere near the physical presence of Maguire, Colwill hopefully one for the future, Kilman tried to play for Ukraine and is he much better than Maguire.

Not necessarily saying I agree with all of the above, but I don't see a really obvious alternative to Maguire from GS's perspective.

Henderson is the more puzzling one where we have better options, and he should not be selected after essentially going into semi-retirement in Saudi.