SC&T Meeting with BCFC 13/09/23

[phantom]

https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/meeting-with-bcfc-13-09-23/

Following a meeting on 28 July 2023, Stuart Rogers, James Nicholls and Mark Newman of the Supporters Club & Trust alongside SLO Jerry Tocknell met with the football club’s Head of Communications Dave Barton on Wednesday 13 September 2023.

CEO Phil Alexander gave his apologies.

Actions confirmed from the last meeting included 30% increases to disabled parking being reversed and confirmation that the away kit will be available within the next 2 weeks.

 

Kits and training wear 

Again we discussed replacing the robin crest with the bird. Feelings are still running high amongst supporters about both the lack of communication, the generic image replacing the badge and the actual design. We suggested that utilising a focus group of supporters in the development of the design would have helped the Club foresee supporters’ views and concerns ahead of release. Last season’s 3rd kit sold out. A request was made for the sales figures for the current kit.

 

Reciprocal away ticket prices 

We previously requested that reciprocal away ticket pricing be considered, especially for the Leeds fixture at Elland Road. Leeds recently charged Sheffield Wednesday fans £47 for an adult ticket. The football club are in negotiations with Leeds about this. It is a complex issue. As laid down by EFL guidelines, the same price applied to away fans must also be applied to home fans in similar/opposite stands. We wait to hear.

 

Fees on away tickets and coach travel

We had previously raised the issue of fees for away match and coach travel, that they should be per transaction and not per ticket. The football club has raised this with Bristol Sport, who are responsible for issuing tickets on behalf of the football club, as a matter of concern and we await a response.

 

Catering

Both of the recent surveys for the men’s and women’s teams supporters identified issues with the cost, quality and choices available for food and drink at Ashton Gate. In addition, it now costs £2.90 for a bottle of water, making it quite expensive, especially for families in addition to other matchday costs. Once again, this is a Bristol Sport provided service and we have asked for this to be raised directly with them.

 

Match commentary

An exiled supporter advised that following a recent update, the RobinsTV app no longer has the facility to play audio commentaries, for which fans pay £40 a season. This is something that can only really be tested on matchdays. In addition, the person involved will be put in touch directly with the football club to try and resolve this issue.

 

Rewards scheme

It was noted that the loyalty programme has a large dependency on retail, some not accessible to all ages. There is also a sense that there is little engagement in it, so some statistics on this would be helpful to prove/disprove. Charlie Lincoln, Group Head of Marketing & Ticketing, has been invited to the next monthly Supporters Club & Trust meeting to understand this better.

 

Finally

The theme running through what we hear regularly about digital ticketing, catering, loyalty schemes, car parking, engagement with exiles and Ashton Gate becoming cashless is that they are not always very inclusive. There are some really good initiatives that fans love and engage with, so all credit to those. However, it seems to be that some of the most basic elements of being a Bristol City fan like ticketing, kits, accessibility, eating & drinking cause the most upset and frustration. Just as importantly, the provision of these services are effectively outsourced to Bristol Sport, which includes the complete management of the stadium. So, the decision-making is controlled by a whole different board of directors, through which the football club has seemingly less and less influence.

More follow up meetings are planned, albeit getting to the bottom of these issues and influencing change could be an arduous process.

[daored]

2 minutes ago, phantom said:

https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/meeting-with-bcfc-13-09-23/

Following a meeting on 28 July 2023, Stuart Rogers, James Nicholls and Mark Newman of the Supporters Club & Trust alongside SLO Jerry Tocknell met with the football club’s Head of Communications Dave Barton on Wednesday 13 September 2023.

CEO Phil Alexander gave his apologies.

Actions confirmed from the last meeting included 30% increases to disabled parking being reversed and confirmation that the away kit will be available within the next 2 weeks.

 

Kits and training wear 

Again we discussed replacing the robin crest with the bird. Feelings are still running high amongst supporters about both the lack of communication, the generic image replacing the badge and the actual design. We suggested that utilising a focus group of supporters in the development of the design would have helped the Club foresee supporters’ views and concerns ahead of release. Last season’s 3rd kit sold out. A request was made for the sales figures for the current kit.

 

Reciprocal away ticket prices 

We previously requested that reciprocal away ticket pricing be considered, especially for the Leeds fixture at Elland Road. Leeds recently charged Sheffield Wednesday fans £47 for an adult ticket. The football club are in negotiations with Leeds about this. It is a complex issue. As laid down by EFL guidelines, the same price applied to away fans must also be applied to home fans in similar/opposite stands. We wait to hear.

 

Fees on away tickets and coach travel

We had previously raised the issue of fees for away match and coach travel, that they should be per transaction and not per ticket. The football club has raised this with Bristol Sport, who are responsible for issuing tickets on behalf of the football club, as a matter of concern and we await a response.

 

Catering

Both of the recent surveys for the men’s and women’s teams supporters identified issues with the cost, quality and choices available for food and drink at Ashton Gate. In addition, it now costs £2.90 for a bottle of water, making it quite expensive, especially for families in addition to other matchday costs. Once again, this is a Bristol Sport provided service and we have asked for this to be raised directly with them.

 

Match commentary

An exiled supporter advised that following a recent update, the RobinsTV app no longer has the facility to play audio commentaries, for which fans pay £40 a season. This is something that can only really be tested on matchdays. In addition, the person involved will be put in touch directly with the football club to try and resolve this issue.

 

Rewards scheme

It was noted that the loyalty programme has a large dependency on retail, some not accessible to all ages. There is also a sense that there is little engagement in it, so some statistics on this would be helpful to prove/disprove. Charlie Lincoln, Group Head of Marketing & Ticketing, has been invited to the next monthly Supporters Club & Trust meeting to understand this better.

 

Finally

The theme running through what we hear regularly about digital ticketing, catering, loyalty schemes, car parking, engagement with exiles and Ashton Gate becoming cashless is that they are not always very inclusive. There are some really good initiatives that fans love and engage with, so all credit to those. However, it seems to be that some of the most basic elements of being a Bristol City fan like ticketing, kits, accessibility, eating & drinking cause the most upset and frustration. Just as importantly, the provision of these services are effectively outsourced to Bristol Sport, which includes the complete management of the stadium. So, the decision-making is controlled by a whole different board of directors, through which the football club has seemingly less and less influence.

More follow up meetings are planned, albeit getting to the bottom of these issues and influencing change could be an arduous process.

Thank you @phantom, I suspect the delay in ticket details for Leeds game could be seen as a positive 

[phantom]

1 minute ago, daored said:

Thank you @phantom, I suspect the delay in ticket details for Leeds game could be seen as a positive 

I didn't realise it's not as simple as saying both clubs agree to charge away fans £35

It also means supporters in equivalent home stands must be charged the same 

So for example if it's agreed the away tickets are £30, then the South Stand for us, and the equivalent home stand for Leeds would have to be the same price too

[daored]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

I didn't realise it's not as simple as saying both clubs agree to charge away fans £35

It also means supporters in equivalent home stands must be charged the same 

So for example if it's agreed the away tickets are £30, then the South Stand for us, and the equivalent home stand for Leeds would have to be the same price too

I didn’t realise that was the case either. Obviously Leeds is a money maker for the club as they will sell out their allocation of whatever we give them. Time will tell

[Bristol Rob]

Not a complaint against SCAT, but the deferral of pretty much everything to Bristol Sport and it being a Bristol Sport outsourced/price etc does seem a deflection tactic where they bat the question away.

When was the last time SCAT requested a similar meeting with Bristol Sport to discuss the points that the club cannot answer?

[Ian M]

14 minutes ago, phantom said:

I didn't realise it's not as simple as saying both clubs agree to charge away fans £35

It also means supporters in equivalent home stands must be charged the same 

So for example if it's agreed the away tickets are £30, then the South Stand for us, and the equivalent home stand for Leeds would have to be the same price too

It would be interesting to see just how many tickets are left in the South Stand for non-season-card holders the moment Sheffield Wednesday tickets are released. Currently the furthest away fixtures (Ipswich and Coventry) have less than 50 available in the SS. It might be a negligible amount of money lost compared to the goodwill they would generate for our away supporters.

[exAtyeoMax]

Was there any discussion re O"Neills and the kit? Will they be providers for the foreseeable? Quality of the kit etc…

Last year's 3rd kit sold out because it was different/better. 

Was there any discussion as to who designed the kit, made decisions re branding and colours etc? I would expect someone with professional industry knowledge of sportswear design to be designing it, with input from fans (?)

[phantom]

9 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Not a complaint against SCAT, but the deferral of pretty much everything to Bristol Sport and it being a Bristol Sport outsourced/price etc does seem a deflection tactic where they bat the question away.

When was the last time SCAT requested a similar meeting with Bristol Sport to discuss the points that the club cannot answer?

I was actually surprised how much to do with the stadium etc is now out of Bristol Citys control and ran by Bristol Sport 

We're just tenants hiring the stadium like anyone else holding an event there

We have requested to bring people from Bristol Sport not only to future meetings but they've also got action points from this meeting to respond to 

[phantom]

Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

Was there any discussion re O"Neills and the kit? Will they be providers for the foreseeable? Quality of the kit etc…

Last year's 3rd kit sold out because it was different/better. 

Was there any discussion as to who designed the kit, made decisions re branding and colours etc? I would expect someone with professional industry knowledge of sportswear design to be designing it, with input from fans (?)

The question was asked, we were told that it's "a commercially sensitive contract" 

I'd assume that's why it's never been detailed how long the contract was for 

Anecdotally Dave Storr did say that a number of club staff have recently been to the O'Neils factory and head office, and in turn their Management have been to Ashton Gate, so it's safe to say both parties are aware of issues 

 

My "personal" opinion is if they don't deliver a suitable product, there will penalties for O'Neils 

Whether that impacts short or long term, only time will tell 

[phantom]

9 minutes ago, Ian M said:

It would be interesting to see just how many tickets are left in the South Stand for non-season-card holders the moment Sheffield Wednesday tickets are released. Currently the furthest away fixtures (Ipswich and Coventry) have less than 50 available in the SS. It might be a negligible amount of money lost compared to the goodwill they would generate for our away supporters.

True, if you are referring to reciprocal pricing it would also affect the opposite stand at Hillsborough 

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, phantom said:

The question was asked, we were told that it's "a commercially sensitive contract" 

I'd assume that's why it's never been detailed how long the contract was for 

Anecdotally Dave Storr did say that a number of club staff have recently been to the O'Neils factory and head office, and in turn their Management have been to Ashton Gate, so it's safe to say both parties are aware of issues 

 

My "personal" opinion is if they don't deliver a suitable product, there will penalties for O'Neils 

Whether that impacts short or long term, only time will tell 

I did laugh at that! Does that mean 'not very long'

Oh dear. So many factors have fed into the debacle, I wouldn't point the finger at anyone in particular.

[phantom]

I hate to say I'm on leave today and currently heading to London. Just gone past Brentfords new ground on a National Express coach. 

I'm getting off at the Tesco by Hammersmith shortly so will pick up any queries I can respond too later this evening on my way home (after 6pm)

[exAtyeoMax]

3 minutes ago, phantom said:

I hate to say I'm on leave today and currently heading to London. Just gone past Brentfords new ground on a National Express coach. 

I'm getting off at the Tesco by Hammersmith shortly so will pick up any queries I can respond too later this evening on my way home (after 6pm)

Ahh, I know that route well, will be doing that tomorrow morning and back again on Sunday. It's lovely and sunny here in London today, have a nice day! 

[W-S-M Seagull]

19 minutes ago, phantom said:

I was actually surprised how much to do with the stadium etc is now out of Bristol Citys control and ran by Bristol Sport 

We're just tenants hiring the stadium like anyone else holding an event there

We have requested to bring people from Bristol Sport not only to future meetings but they've also got action points from this meeting to respond to 

I think it would make sense for Bristol Sport to attend meetings as otherwise you're essentially having two meetings for things that could be sorted in one meeting.

[Kid in the Riot]

19 minutes ago, phantom said:

I was actually surprised how much to do with the stadium etc is now out of Bristol Citys control and ran by Bristol Sport 

We're just tenants hiring the stadium like anyone else holding an event there

Erm not sure I'd buy that. Bristol Sport are part of the wider organisation that ultimately leads back to one man/family. If that particular part of the organisation are responsible for a lot of the issues, then they absolutely need to be at these meetings and given feedback directly from supporters, who are ultimately their customers.

[Barrs Court Red]

It’s a real shame that Bristol Sport have for whatever reason, decided to change their pricing model. It does seem a cynical attempt to offset the cost of kids tickets.

[Ian M]

29 minutes ago, phantom said:

True, if you are referring to reciprocal pricing it would also affect the opposite stand at Hillsborough 

No, I meant that the Wednesday fixture is the next game we have where tickets are not yet for sale. Getting online the moment the game is released, you can find out how many seats are actually available for sale and how much it is likely to cost the club if they arranged a reciprocal pricing structure with any club in our division. Without the need to ask the club for this information and have them tell you only Bristol Sport can answer that

[Mr Popodopolous]

I dunno whether they are the full minutes or just a summary but I note that the CEO couldn't make it. Yes he spoke on Radio Bristol at last.

Notice no police update too- again would be good but probably messenger rather than message, would be good if they were pressed sometime on the Safety Advisory Group secrecy as the Police form a notable part of this.

[Bristol Rob]

14 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Erm not sure I'd buy that. Bristol Sport are part of the wider organisation that ultimately leads back to one man/family. If that particular part of the organisation are responsible for a lot of the issues, then they absolutely need to be at these meetings and given feedback directly from supporters, who are ultimately their customers.

Quite agree. Alternatively, the Club should represent a bigger challenge to Bristol Sport when they get feedback from their customers that they aren't impressed with certain aspects of things.

I also find it difficult to reconcile the idea that Bristol City aren't privy to the Bristol Sport discussions around things like booking fees, concession pricing and a host of other things.

[frenchred]

2 hours ago, phantom said:

I didn't realise it's not as simple as saying both clubs agree to charge away fans £35

It also means supporters in equivalent home stands must be charged the same 

So for example if it's agreed the away tickets are £30, then the South Stand for us, and the equivalent home stand for Leeds would have to be the same price too

Other clubs don't appear to have had a problem coming to an arrangement, is it because as BCFC supporters we are being fleeced at home as well!

Quite telling that the invisible man was absent again

[One Team]

Thanks for sharing this.

It’s right to raise the Bristol Sport point which feels like avoidance; they should be represented at the meet if the club need to defer to them so much. Kind of feels like it’s not our stadium at times.

The most shocking thing I read there was the price for a bottle of water! Suspending my disbelief for a moment people actually buy food and drink at the ground (there are loads better value and quality places around the ground, especially on North Street) that’s an outrageous price for water. That’s the sort of price you pay at Disney World! Quite literally Mickey Mouse…

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by One Team

[headhunter]

19 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Other clubs don't appear to have had a problem coming to an arrangement, is it because as BCFC supporters we are being fleeced at home as well!

Quite telling that the invisible man was absent again

Has he attended any other SC&T meetings in the 8 months he's been here?

If no, that's not a good look IMHO.

[Mr Popodopolous]

33 minutes ago, One Team said:

Thanks for sharing this.

It’s right to raise the Bristol Sport point which feels like avoidance; they should be represented at the meet if the club need to defer to them so much. Kind of feels like it’s not our stadium at times.

The most shocking thing I read there was the price for a bottle of water! Suspending my disbelief for a moment people actually buy food and drink at the ground (there are loads better value and quality places around the ground, especially on North Street) that’s an outrageous price for water. That’s the sort of price you pay at Disney World! Quite literally Mickey Mouse…

 

Sports venues in modern times always have, always will have a certain markup.

Pay it or buy, elsewhere but it's hardly a surprise.

https://stratpricing.com/are-stadiums-price-gouging/

Two caveats, this is an opinion piece from June 2008 and is in a US setting.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[CyderInACan]

36 minutes ago, One Team said:

Quite literally Mickey Mouse…

Mickey Take more like 

[42nite]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

Has he attended any other SC&T meetings in the 8 months he's been here?

If no, that's not a good look IMHO.

 

Kind of reminds me of Dinning.

 

[Selred]

Thanks @phantom for sharing the details and also answering peoples follow ups here. You get a lot of questions, and sometimes some unfair slack, but wanted to say how much I appreciate these updates.

[The Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, One Team said:

The most shocking thing I read there was the price for a bottle of water! Suspending my disbelief for a moment people actually buy food and drink at the ground (there are loads better value and quality places around the ground, especially on North Street) that’s an outrageous price for water. That’s the sort of price you pay at Disney World! Quite literally Mickey Mouse…

 

FYI any licensed premises must provide free tap water on request

[exAtyeoMax]

17 minutes ago, sinenomine said:

FYI any licensed premises must provide free tap water on request

they used to but I couldn't see where you could get it from 

[frenchred]

Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

they used to but I couldn't see where you could get it from 

The tap?

[Rocky]

5 hours ago, phantom said:

https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/meeting-with-bcfc-13-09-23/

Following a meeting on 28 July 2023, Stuart Rogers, James Nicholls and Mark Newman of the Supporters Club & Trust alongside SLO Jerry Tocknell met with the football club’s Head of Communications Dave Barton on Wednesday 13 September 2023.

CEO Phil Alexander gave his apologies.

Actions confirmed from the last meeting included 30% increases to disabled parking being reversed and confirmation that the away kit will be available within the next 2 weeks.

 

Kits and training wear 

Again we discussed replacing the robin crest with the bird. Feelings are still running high amongst supporters about both the lack of communication, the generic image replacing the badge and the actual design. We suggested that utilising a focus group of supporters in the development of the design would have helped the Club foresee supporters’ views and concerns ahead of release. Last season’s 3rd kit sold out. A request was made for the sales figures for the current kit.

 

Reciprocal away ticket prices 

We previously requested that reciprocal away ticket pricing be considered, especially for the Leeds fixture at Elland Road. Leeds recently charged Sheffield Wednesday fans £47 for an adult ticket. The football club are in negotiations with Leeds about this. It is a complex issue. As laid down by EFL guidelines, the same price applied to away fans must also be applied to home fans in similar/opposite stands. We wait to hear.

 

Fees on away tickets and coach travel

We had previously raised the issue of fees for away match and coach travel, that they should be per transaction and not per ticket. The football club has raised this with Bristol Sport, who are responsible for issuing tickets on behalf of the football club, as a matter of concern and we await a response.

 

Catering

Both of the recent surveys for the men’s and women’s teams supporters identified issues with the cost, quality and choices available for food and drink at Ashton Gate. In addition, it now costs £2.90 for a bottle of water, making it quite expensive, especially for families in addition to other matchday costs. Once again, this is a Bristol Sport provided service and we have asked for this to be raised directly with them.

 

Match commentary

An exiled supporter advised that following a recent update, the RobinsTV app no longer has the facility to play audio commentaries, for which fans pay £40 a season. This is something that can only really be tested on matchdays. In addition, the person involved will be put in touch directly with the football club to try and resolve this issue.

 

Rewards scheme

It was noted that the loyalty programme has a large dependency on retail, some not accessible to all ages. There is also a sense that there is little engagement in it, so some statistics on this would be helpful to prove/disprove. Charlie Lincoln, Group Head of Marketing & Ticketing, has been invited to the next monthly Supporters Club & Trust meeting to understand this better.

 

Finally

The theme running through what we hear regularly about digital ticketing, catering, loyalty schemes, car parking, engagement with exiles and Ashton Gate becoming cashless is that they are not always very inclusive. There are some really good initiatives that fans love and engage with, so all credit to those. However, it seems to be that some of the most basic elements of being a Bristol City fan like ticketing, kits, accessibility, eating & drinking cause the most upset and frustration. Just as importantly, the provision of these services are effectively outsourced to Bristol Sport, which includes the complete management of the stadium. So, the decision-making is controlled by a whole different board of directors, through which the football club has seemingly less and less influence.

More follow up meetings are planned, albeit getting to the bottom of these issues and influencing change could be an arduous process.

Overriding feeling after reading this is 'fobbed off', perhaps being there was different!?

I just hear "it's not us, it is Bristol Sport" - I bet feedback to BS will disappear down a black hole or you'll be strung along for months/until someone stops asking.