Pearson Post Match

[Gazred]

Nige can't win. His successes only highlight the failures that were here when he arrived and we all know who is ultimately responsible for those.

Perhaps he was only hired to demolish and put down foundations, which he has done very well. If so, he's done his job and you bring in the next contractor to do their bit.

Personally i like where Nige has got us to in his time here already and with perhaps a signing or 3 more we'd be able to sustain a play off push. If it were up to me, i'd extend his contract at least until the end of next season now and if we are still top ten in Jan, release the purse strings a bit.

 

[marmite]

Ffs can someone from the club just keep us informed as to what's happening. All we get is info on the next fixture. We're treated like frigging mushrooms, but without the shit!!!

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Yes , the point I was trying to make RO , as Cotts departure became inevitable and I thought he contributed at the end, but the opportunity was still there , on the next appointment for someone to build on that with skill and nouse.

Unfortunately we (They) didn’t and pursued a personal project and friendship

Someone like Nige…

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

Someone like Nige…

Certainly Max , it was a brilliant job for someone 

Slim squad , with room to expand and build on , good players, good team spirit .....money to spend....... sigh 

[bexhill reds]

8 minutes ago, lenred said:

Why would NP agree to that.   Could jeopardise any future work plans he may have. Not sure he will be in the mood to cooperate anyhow.   Although I’m sure SL will try to Chuck him a bucket load of cash to make sure his ‘brand’ isn’t damaged and Nige keeps schtum but not sure Nige will accept.   Hope he doesn’t.  

Sort of works for NP too, better on the CV than getting fired from what is known to be a very patient club that gives managers time and mostly backing. Whether he’d need that type of PR arrangement is a debatable topic, but it is a jumping off point for both parties.

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

think we all agree Nige doesn’t have a free pass for life but surely give him one more contract to prove or otherwise whether he can take us further forward?

Thing is, considering the wage cap/constraints recently imposed by SL,who would have the skill set not only to maintain the spirit/culture that has been built,but also strengthen & push us up??....

Off the top of my head I can only think Nigel

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Someone like Nige…

Yes. So where is @Thatch35 when you need him. 
 

There will certainly be some booing if history repeats itself. 

[ExiledAjax]

16 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I've striken the 0-0 draw with the mighty Burton from my memory. Good times though 

That shot on target right at the end though. Absolute limbs.

[ExiledAjax]

42 minutes ago, chinapig said:

You make your case very well as usual.

All I would say is that history does not give me confidence that a logical decision will be made. It could work as you say but whether it would is at least a moot point.

And as usual you pay me too high a compliment.

But honestly, if we assume that we're correct that the relationship between Pearson and Owner has broken down, then how is it logical to persist with that relationship? The only reason to do so is emotional, almost dare I say; sentimental?

Wouldn't the Club just be keeping a broken marriage together for the sake of the kids...sorry the fans'...feelings? 

What happens in 12/24/36 month's time when the Club is still unsold and Pearson is again in the dog days of his contract?

I cannot square the circle without concluding that it's time to end it (not right now before anyone jumps on me - end of the season, managed handover blah blah blah).

Edited October 23, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[lenred]

13 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Sort of works for NP too, better on the CV than getting fired from what is known to be a very patient club that gives managers time and mostly backing. Whether he’d need that type of PR arrangement is a debatable topic, but it is a jumping off point for both parties.

No it’s not better for NP. People in the game will be well aware of the position NP has found himself under here and the constraints he’s had to work with.  Will very very easily get another decent job should he want it. 

[exAtyeoMax]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

And as usual you pay me too high a compliment.

But honestly, if we assume that we're correct that the relationship between Pearson and Owner has broken down, then how is it logical to persist with that relationship? The only reason to do so is emotional, almost dare I say; sentimental?

Wouldn't the Club just be keeping a broken marriage together for the sake of the kids...sorry the fans'...feelings? 

What happens in 12/24/36 month's time when the Club is still unsold and Pearson is again in the dog days of his contract?

I cannot square the circle without concluding that it's time to end it (not right now before anyone jumps on me - end of the season, managed handover blah blah blah).

No…I would like to think SL was more professional than that. 

It's got nothing to do with feelings. 

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

No…I would like to think SL was more professional than that. 

It's got nothing to do with feelings. 

I agree, but the professional thing to do when faced with a broken relationship - which seems to be what we've collectively concluded has happened - is to end it.

Isn't it? 

[Bazooka Joe]

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

.......In the Heneiken Suite ......

 

....... With a crayon.......

... in Mark Ashton's House of Mirrors  ...

....with a prawn sandwich ....

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

I agree, but the professional thing to do when faced with a broken relationship - which seems to be what we've collectively concluded has happened - is to end it.

Isn't it? 

Unfortunately SL is in the driving seat so there can only be one outcome. It depends why it has broken down though, or if it has. There seems to be a lot going on behind the scenes.

[red panda]

So much speculation, so few facts.  Had Coventry inflicted the defeat that our performance (and let's face it NP's starting line up) deserved, we would now be 17th, looking over our shoulders with 2nd place Ipswich about to arrive.  I suspect this thread would have been a bit different.  Such a fickle game football .....

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, Jacki said:

According the the article in the Post, Nige’s prognosis is still uncertain to there has been no operation yet. 

Sometimes you can have an operation for exploratory reasons, not to solve the problem.  Pure guesswork from me that any op he has had was for that purpose…albeit not conclusive in finding the prognosis.

Happy to be corrected.

6 hours ago, Gabriella said:

Well we can only be behind him in this tit for tat if we know what the issue is, which we don’t….Pearson wanted a 3 year deal and he got it, up to him to make the playoffs this season.

He actually said “to be challenging for the playoffs”.

He also said more recently, “the situation was worse than he thought” and “progress has been slower than he’d hoped”.  Whether both club and Nige have realigned the objectives and timeframes I don’t know, but as it stands as at 12 games in…we are “challenging for the playoffs”.  Quite how I don’t know, but I suspect we are sort of turning into one of those sides that as fans we always used to moan about not beating.

5 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, have been told the same by someone that has seen him there on several occasions. 

Knowing who told Harry that he hadn't attended for five weeks, I find it interesting that that person appears to be privately briefing against Nige. 

Just more evidence that the end is nigh for Nige at City.

Some shit stirring going on, and I don’t get why.  This club could be hugely exposed by Nige not being here and some of his staff too.

5 hours ago, Gert Mare said:

Nigel Pearson took on a mammoth job.

Honestly, how many reputable managers would have put their reputations on the line with the instruction that they would have no competitive money to spend and instead blood youngster from the academy in what is one of the most competitive leagues in world football?

Coppell wasn’t prepared to do it, Hughton wasn’t prepared to do it and yet Nigel Pearson took on the challenge whilst not realising just how bad things really were until he began working with the club.

He has worked within tremendously difficult financial constraints and he has also worked to change the culture within the team. 

It doesn’t matter if you are a star name or not. It doesn’t matter if you have played well and then had a couple of bad games. It doesn’t matter if you have fallen out of favour for a while. If you can show commitment to the cause you will get another opportunity to stake a claim for a place in the starting lineup. 

He is not afraid to stand up for what he believes in and he comes across as a very authentic person. Love him or loathe him he is true to his words and he doesn’t hide in press conferences either and is clear in his post match views. There is no bamboozling with scientific garbage, just an honest pure footballing assessment. He calls it out and he doesn’t hide. He has the respect of his players.

Even the fans are onside with NP now that they can see that it takes time to turn things around. We are competitive in matches for the first time in a long long time and whilst inevitably mistakes are made on the pitch that happens in football whoever is in charge.

We don’t go on 8 game losing streaks with NP.

If SL / JL or whoever cannot appreciate the immense job that NP has done then I’m afraid they don’t deserve him. I cannot think of any manager who would have taken the job under those circumstances and made such a compelling case to be offered a new contract?

There will be many a raised eyebrow if we don’t secure his services and not just from inside the club.

I cannot get my head round why the issue hasn’t been discussed when the good work that he has done is so abundantly clear to almost everyone?

Superb post.

[beaverface]

One of the things I've really liked about NP being manager, is the way he describes where we are, where we're going to, and how long it's going to get there. He has\had a vision, and appreciates the constraints he's under, but still has a clear plan on how he intends to get there - even when the rug is being pulled from beneath his feet !!

In LJ, I never had a sense of a clear plan or identity, or what we needed to do to get there - it was always buy another player!

Under NP, he said it'll take him 3 years. He's also mentioned a couple of times down the line that we're not progressing as fast as he'd thought, but he also went on to explain that its things in the background he's trying to sort out.

In the early days, he persisted with wing backs, and counter attacking football, as he said that's the best formation for the players we had. He then went about releasing players from their contracts earlier than were due to end, and he also sold Semenyo to create finance to enable us to bring in other players to move to a more possession based side.

All the while, he's changing formation to a 4231 (give or take) which he prefers. He's not pulled the wool over our eyes, he's not quoted buzz words, he's explained it clearly and concisely, and in my eyes I can see a clear plan.

Admittedly it's not been brilliant football all the time, but you can see a clear plan in action. We press from the front, we're fit, we're strong, and we're difficult to play against.

Aside from Steve Cotterell persisting (stubbornly) with wing backs when we got to the championship, NP is providing the clearest plan of what he's trying to deliver, and the last thing I want to see if a new coach come in, rip up the rule book, buy some "clubs in the bag" and rinse and repeat the last couple of decades!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, red panda said:

So much speculation, so few facts.  Had Coventry inflicted the defeat that our performance (and let's face it NP's starting line up) deserved, we would now be 17th, looking over our shoulders with 2nd place Ipswich about to arrive.  I suspect this thread would have been a bit different.  Such a fickle game football .....

Tbh our hand was forced in terms of the starting line up and shape. Even Knight who came on was a doubt and Williams was an absentee which was not one of the expected from the press conference.

We were so stretched that Idehen ffs was back in the 20. Maybe Knight couldn't be trusted for the 90 as he was a bit of a doubt...I'm not sure how many other options there were.

Outfield players available and clearly fit, pick a 4-3-3..bear in mind there were doubts on Knight and no genuine RB.

Dickie, Pring, Roberts

James, Knight (a doubt), Gardner-Hickman, King

Sykes, Cornick

Bell, Mehmeti

Conway, Weimann

Edited October 23, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[bexhill reds]

17 minutes ago, lenred said:

No it’s not better for NP. People in the game will be well aware of the position NP has found himself under here and the constraints he’s had to work with.  Will very very easily get another decent job should he want it. 

Either way better then, and I absolutely agree with you on his employment options for a sensibly run club, he’s a very strong option, perhaps not the best if the owners have a narcissistic side or want a name rather than know-how.

My comment was more looking at possible PR options, given that arguably NP is gently herding the board into an impasse.

[Leveller]

9 minutes ago, red panda said:

So much speculation, so few facts.  Had Coventry inflicted the defeat that our performance (and let's face it NP's starting line up) deserved, we would now be 17th, looking over our shoulders with 2nd place Ipswich about to arrive.  I suspect this thread would have been a bit different.  Such a fickle game football .....

Indeed. The much discussed improvement (above) about the rise from 18th to 8th doesn’t bear much scrutiny really. NP has done good job, but I don’t think he’s the saintly miracle worker some are portraying him as.

[Gabriella]

Just now, Leveller said:

Indeed. The much discussed improvement (above) about the rise from 18th to 8th doesn’t bear much scrutiny really. NP has done good job, but I don’t think he’s the saintly miracle worker some are portraying him as.

Exactly.

[Ashtongreight]

5 hours ago, Gert Mare said:

Nigel Pearson took on a mammoth job.

Honestly, how many reputable managers would have put their reputations on the line with the instruction that they would have no competitive money to spend and instead blood youngster from the academy in what is one of the most competitive leagues in world football?

Coppell wasn’t prepared to do it, Hughton wasn’t prepared to do it and yet Nigel Pearson took on the challenge whilst not realising just how bad things really were until he began working with the club.

He has worked within tremendously difficult financial constraints and he has also worked to change the culture within the team. 

It doesn’t matter if you are a star name or not. It doesn’t matter if you have played well and then had a couple of bad games. It doesn’t matter if you have fallen out of favour for a while. If you can show commitment to the cause you will get another opportunity to stake a claim for a place in the starting lineup. 

He is not afraid to stand up for what he believes in and he comes across as a very authentic person. Love him or loathe him he is true to his words and he doesn’t hide in press conferences either and is clear in his post match views. There is no bamboozling with scientific garbage, just an honest pure footballing assessment. He calls it out and he doesn’t hide. He has the respect of his players.

Even the fans are onside with NP now that they can see that it takes time to turn things around. We are competitive in matches for the first time in a long long time and whilst inevitably mistakes are made on the pitch that happens in football whoever is in charge.

We don’t go on 8 game losing streaks with NP.

If SL / JL or whoever cannot appreciate the immense job that NP has done then I’m afraid they don’t deserve him. I cannot think of any manager who would have taken the job under those circumstances and made such a compelling case to be offered a new contract?

There will be many a raised eyebrow if we don’t secure his services and not just from inside the club.

I cannot get my head round why the issue hasn’t been discussed when the good work that he has done is so abundantly clear to almost everyone?

Really good post, spot on.

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Gabriella said:

You are posting these points as if they were completely unknown, Pearson knew he was going to need to slash the wage budget, why are you making out as if this is some kind of shock? It was literally his brief. Hasn’t Pearson regularly stated that he likes a smaller squad, not sure why you are using something he has actively encouraged as a negative hand he has been dealt with.

Not sure what you’re meaning by last paragraph, my point was any manager not NP specifically. 

I think you know as well as anyone the remit of Nige’s job was clear….but the parameters (predominantly financial and a cosy club playing squad) made that hugely more impactful…especially in the light of post-covid FFP.

Nige is operating at budget levels of 2016(ish)…pre-splurge levels…apart from Nige isn’t getting his splurge, he’s gotta perform on levels that are probably now bottom-8 levels.

Those 2016(ish) budget levels saw us finish 18th and 17th (I think)…before we started to ramp up squad size, transfer fees / amortisation and wages.

Theres your comparison!!!

So what if Nige was bullish, I very much suspect he thought that once FFP was sorted (nice work RG and Nige for accepting the consequence) he would be given opportunity to build the squad.  He has based on austerity.  Fine job he’s doing too.  He’s had the drawbridge pulled up on him.

Getting to the playoffs this season would be a much bigger achievement with what we have than Luton or Coventry.  We are about 18 months / 2 years behind their trajectory.

4 hours ago, One Team said:

Given this interview was on Radio Bristol it’ll be interesting to see if it’s covered on Sound Of The City tonight. 

I normally find it very biased to the club hierarchy (Hoskins even said a few shows back that “we can’t criticise Steve Lansdown”) but there is surely enough here to have a reasonable debate.

@Davefevs don’t suppose you are on?

No, I’m not but Ed replied to a tweet of mine saying that tonight’s show has more of the interview that was put out in twitter.  So should be some new info.

[Mr Popodopolous]

28 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Indeed. The much discussed improvement (above) about the rise from 18th to 8th doesn’t bear much scrutiny really. NP has done good job, but I don’t think he’s the saintly miracle worker some are portraying him as.

Really?

Really??

While cutting the wage bill substantially, reinvesting a fraction of what was raised in fees and cost savings (wages and amortisation) partly FFP, blooding lots of youth some of which have been sold for major money.

A team effort , credit to Tinnion of course too, and Gould for the financial tough calls, a team effort. One loanee in 3 years, no fee playable from Janaury 2022 to post Semenyo in January 2023.

Do you remember what a shambles we were when he came in, how tough the first half or 3-4 months of 2021-22 were. He kept us afloat then improved us while cutting and showing huge restraint in the market.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Seems NP has got a new career already...WTF is this

 

Some times in life, you come across things that you never knew you wanted. This is one of those things.

Take my money

[REDOXO]

Please someone any one tell me what is wrong with Mr Pearson’s health. 
 

Yes I know he is currently using a crutch and in the past has some Covid issues. However I keep reading the words excuse and health in the same sentence! 

 What is actually wrong with him?? ANYONE?

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think you know as well as anyone the remit of Nige’s job was clear….but the parameters (predominantly financial and a cosy club playing squad) made that hugely more impactful…especially in the light of post-covid FFP.

Nige is operating at budget levels of 2016(ish)…pre-splurge levels…apart from Nige isn’t getting his splurge, he’s gotta perform on levels that are probably now bottom-8 levels.

Those 2016(ish) budget levels saw us finish 18th and 17th (I think)…before we started to ramp up squad size, transfer fees / amortisation and wages.

Theres your comparison!!!

So what if Nige was bullish, I very much suspect he thought that once FFP was sorted (nice work RG and Nige for accepting the consequence) he would be given opportunity to build the squad.  He has based on austerity.  Fine job he’s doing too.  He’s had the drawbridge pulled up on him.

Getting to the playoffs this season would be a much bigger achievement with what we have than Luton or Coventry.  We are about 18 months / 2 years behind their trajectory.

No, I’m not but Ed replied to a tweet of mine saying that tonight’s show has more of the interview that was put out in twitter.  So should be some new info.

To try and keep this simple and avoid a long post, my thoughts are that whilst Nige has achieved the brief set out to him, he did so whilst the goalposts were constantly being moved and yet, despite that, he still wants to embark on the next part of the journey with us.

I've said many times before that Coventry and Luton had both increased their spends by quite a lot over the past few years, where as Nigel has constantly had his budget cut.

[Ian M]

2 hours ago, The Journalist said:

I’ve read this whole thread with great interest over the past couple of days. FWIW, while your views aren’t necessarily widely shared there’s a lot of logic there and it’s been a healthy debate. The best of OTIB IMO.

When Pearson was appointed and during the first 6-12 months, when the ride was fairly uncomfortable and many didn’t support him, I was of the view - and I know others shared this opinion - that he was exactly what we needed at that moment and that we would make good progress with him… but not necessarily take the “next step” while he was manager.

It’s funny that now we’re reaching the natural separation point and results haven’t wildly improved, we’re all getting cold feet.

I think the reasons for that are as follows (and in a weird way show we’re actually quite an empathetic, right-thinking bunch… unusually for football fans!):

- We’ve sold our best two players, who both broke through under Pearson, for more than £30m and he hasn’t been given the opportunity to replace them. The “what football makes football can spend” mantra is at best a bending of the truth and at worst an outright lie. That feels unfair.

- Pearson has improved the style of play and created the most likeable group of players we’ve had in nearly a decade. We are entertaining to watch under him.

- He continues to give youth a chance, something none of our recent previous managers have done to any genuine extent.

- He’s never really been given the public credit we all feel he deserves for stopping the rot and turning us around. It’s almost like the owners resent his relative success. This has created a bit of a Pearson v Lansdown narrative and the manager is winning that by some distance.

- Because of the uncertainty over the ownership situation, there is a nervousness about what happens next. Things seem comfortable on the pitch currently but none of us know what the next couple of years will look like.

- And finally, and perhaps most crucially, there is a mistrust specifically in our ability to appoint a suitable successor. We fear going from this period of stability to a string of poor appointments - something history would support.

So, to conclude this waffling, there IS some sense in moving on at the end of this three-and-a-bit-year period and bringing in some fresh eyes to make the next push. We are trending upwards and that’s arguably a good time to change. And many of us were in favour of this - in principle - three years ago. We predicted it.

But now we’ve arrived here it just feels wrong, it feels slightly unfair on the manager and at best seems tone deaf to the supporters. That’s the bit (I think) we’re all uncomfortable with.

Broadly, amongst the supporters there's a general feeling that off-the-field things are a bit messy at Bristol City but at least generally there's a satisfaction that things on-the-pitch are going ok.

Lansdown, in typical fashion, has heard those concerns and said "let me fix that!"

[Reigate Red]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

Are crutches supplied or do they cost extra?

I want the extra pack of wolves 

[NickJ]

I reserved judgment on NP for a long time, until the beginning of this year when I got what he is trying to do and could see that he is doing it, and is an extremely good judge of footballers. I particularly liked his criticism of the ridiculous "buy young players to make them better and sell them at a profit policy", and his observation that he could be sacked but it wouldnt make any difference because the process would remain the same.

Nevertheless, all this criticism of Lansdown stalling on giving NP a new contract - for all we know there could be a grand master plan.

I'm hoping he's in talks with Cotts.