Investment

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

As discussed in another topic, at the q&a recently JL said they were looking for an investor who had expertise that would benefit Bristol Sport and that the Lansdowns aren't going to "walk away" so some of the discussion on here appears to be wide of the mark.

They’ve changed tack / re-positioned their focus.

Because until very recently one of the routes they were going down was that they were looking to sell the whole thing.  There was definitely one group working with them.  As nobody was gonna pay them the alleged £200m (which I do believe is more than a made-up figure) they’re looking to see if they can onboard investment to work alongside them / share the load.  Control will be the biggest barrier to this though.

Maybe this is partly linked to JL’s renewed vigour / involvement in the club again.  Maybe he wants the club after SL “departs” having previously thinking he didn’t.  I heard he wanted to be CEO.  I guess SL has decided to keep him as Chairman but surround him with trusted Pula / BS people.  I am critical of JL, but at least he’s a City fan.

[GrahamC]

26 minutes ago, tin said:

I can’t see anyone in their right mind paying £200m for BS, nor should they be expected to in the current market. So that leaves us with nothing, and the prospect of the Lansdowns bumbling on for another decade is so depressing. If BCFC was up for sale, however, surely a deal would be done. 

Also fair to say JL’s comments at the forum (which I had missed until now) completely contradict his Dad’s statement a while ago about looking for either a full sale or investment.

Leaving aside the fact JL isn’t the greatest public speaker (to put it mildly) this does appear a shift & backs up the theory he is going to take it over from SL.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Also fair to say JL’s comments at the forum (which I had missed until now) completely contradict his Dad’s statement a while ago about looking for either a full sale or investment.

Leaving aside the fact JL isn’t the greatest public speaker (to put it mildly) this does appear a shift & backs up the theory he is going to take it over from SL.

Much will depend on how much investment they want, and how much control you get for your £££s.

I’ll need to see what the forum sages say about having a minority stake…is that gonna fly?

I don’t quite understand how Ratcliffe can go into Man Utd as a minority stakeholder and could mean he could oust the Glazers???

[W-S-M Seagull]

15 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Where has the 200m figure you are quoting for SL to be delusional come from?

Because thats the amount that SL has put into the club so people assume that's how much he'd want to sell it for. 

But obviously I'm the one that talks shit all the time  

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Much will depend on how much investment they want, and how much control you get for your £££s.

I’ll need to see what the forum sages say about having a minority stake…is that gonna fly?

I don’t quite understand how Ratcliffe can go into Man Utd as a minority stakeholder and could mean he could oust the Glazers???

Not really following that but guess it is part of a longer term strategy from someone obviously super wealthy & who is not used to being a bit part player?

[BrizzleRed]

15 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Where has the 200m figure you are quoting for SL to be delusional come from?

On this thread, though I thought it had been reported he was asking around £140 million previously, so who knows other than a select few?

Given the activity around other clubs like WBA and Norwich and the lack of interest in us, it’s pretty safe to say we haven’t been priced competitively, don’t you think?

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Because thats the amount that SL has put into the club so people assume that's how much he'd want to sell it for. 

But obviously I'm the one that talks shit all the time  

No, the £200m is not a figure based on how much he has put into the football club, that’s a coincidence.  It comes from his valuation of his “empire” inc Sporting Quarter, and the opportunity (in his eyes) for the buyer.

If JL is gonna run the club in the future, then he’s setting it up for himself, and putting the people in place.  Good luck to him I say, even if I’m not his biggest fan.  I hope it’s a success.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

No, the £200m is not a figure based on how much he has put into the football club, that’s a coincidence.  It comes from his valuation of his “empire” inc Sporting Quarter, and the opportunity (in his eyes) for the buyer.

If JL is gonna run the club in the future, then he’s setting it up for himself, and putting the people in place.  Good luck to him I say, even if I’m not his biggest fan.  I hope it’s a success.

I think the best way of him getting his money back is by us getting to the Premier league. Maybe that had something to do with the decision to sack Pearson? 

My question is, does JL have the funds himself to fund the club?

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 minute ago, BrizzleRed said:

On this thread, though I thought it had been reported he was asking around £140 million previously, so who knows other than a select few?

Given the activity around other clubs like WBA and Norwich and the lack of interest in us, it’s pretty safe to say we haven’t been priced competitively, don’t you think?

The post called SL delusional and quoted 200m, based on nothing more than someone's quess and figure they can use to attack SL.

As WSM pointed out it may be on the guess of what SL has invested, but I would guess that a man who is a self made billionaire may have some idea on how to value the business and what to offer for investment, much more than anyone on here.

He has always said it has to be the right investor or investment and maybe as others have said JL is more interested again in taking forward. 

 

 

[BrizzleRed]

10 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

The post called SL delusional and quoted 200m, based on nothing more than someone's quess and figure they can use to attack SL.

As WSM pointed out it may be on the guess of what SL has invested, but I would guess that a man who is a self made billionaire may have some idea on how to value the business and what to offer for investment, much more than anyone on here.

He has always said it has to be the right investor or investment and maybe as others have said JL is more interested again in taking forward. 

 

 

Wrong, read it again!  

The post said that if SL HAD valued BS at £200 million, that would be delusional.  Are you arguing that wouldn’t be the case, considering two clubs with a great deal of recent Premier League experience are valued around the £60m to £80m mark?

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

My question is, does JL have the funds himself to fund the club?

I do suspect in the medium term post regulation clubs could if a solution can be thrashed out, less reliant on owners and more self-financing.

An impact of more TV money and a cap on football wages, player amortisation and impairment and agents fees of 70% could reduce divisional costs markedly. So it might not be so important down the line.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On the wider point, £200m or whatever is dreamland.

[sh1t_ref_again]

3 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Wrong, read it again!  

The post said that if SL HAD valued BS at £200 million, that would be delusional.  Are you arguing that wouldn’t be the case, considering two clubs with a great deal of recent Premier League experience are valued around the £60m to £80m mark?

OK, sorry missed the it was the post, just don't like it when figures seem to be made up to attack someone with, but fair game if correct.

I would still argue, SL is no fool and will know much more than the Post or anyone on here about what is an achievable value

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think the best way of him getting his money back is by us getting to the Premier league. Maybe that had something to do with the decision to sack Pearson? 

My question is, does JL have the funds himself to fund the club?

I suspect the price would go up if we were in the PL.  As above, £200m includes some “opportunity cost” for the investor.

@sh1t_ref_again as for the £200m quoted on here, I can actually see why SL might want that kind of figure.  But it’s a bit like selling your house, you’ll only get what someone is prepared to buy it for.

 

[BrizzleRed]

3 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

OK, sorry missed the it was the post, just don't like it when figures seem to be made up to attack someone with, but fair game if correct.

I would still argue, SL is no fool and will know much more than the Post or anyone on here about what is an achievable value

Fair shout and no probs

[Barrs Court Red]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

I would still argue, SL is no fool and will know much more than the Post or anyone on here about what is an achievable value

The evidence suggests otherwise no?  He’s been stating it’s been up for sale openly for what, the last 2 years? My guess is privately it would have been much longer. 
 

 

[sh1t_ref_again]

10 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

The evidence suggests otherwise no?  He’s been stating it’s been up for sale openly for what, the last 2 years? My guess is privately it would have been much longer. 
 

 

I don't agree that the evidence shows that, a loss making football club must be an incredible hard thing to sell, made even more difficult as SL made it clear he would not just sell to anyone.  

[Barrs Court Red]

Just now, sh1t_ref_again said:

I don't agree that the evidence shows that, a loss making football club must be an incredible hard thing to sell, made even more difficult as SL made it clear he would not just sell to anyone.  

Limiting who he’ll sale too (which is great, don’t get me wrong) limits the pool of potential marks buyers, which could change the viability of the asking price. 
 

Meanwhile we don’t really see other club sales drawing out for such a timespan, mainly I guess because they are not lumbered with a load of tat. 
 

Coupled together, I think that’s probably why the language is changing to “investment” rather than “ownership”.  

[Pezo]

I don't think I have heard him say "sell" I think he has always said "invest", beside the point the language seems to have changed to "work alongside".

I think he is obsessed with the Barcelona model, no inside knowledge but I think he is trying to appeal to someone's ego. By invest I think he means renting everything to someone in something like a club president model where they get to run it for 3 years for say £40m. Someone who is a billionaire or even half of that isn't going to care about £40m - it isn't all about money at that level of wealth it's usually about prestige and building a brand around yourself for a legacy.

That way SL cover's the losses, the investor gets the profile and god like status if we get promoted, SL keeps the underlying assets and mitigates his losses.

All guesswork though.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

OK, sorry missed the it was the post, just don't like it when figures seem to be made up to attack someone with, but fair game if correct.

I would still argue, SL is no fool and will know much more than the Post or anyone on here about what is an achievable value

You are too quick to ignite when anyone even questions, let alone critical of  , the Lansdowns

 

Maybe you could ask them next time you are polishing the shoes 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Much will depend on how much investment they want, and how much control you get for your £££s.

I’ll need to see what the forum sages say about having a minority stake…is that gonna fly?

I don’t quite understand how Ratcliffe can go into Man Utd as a minority stakeholder and could mean he could oust the Glazers???

It all comes down to what's negotiated.

What rights are given to the shares that Pula/the Lansdowns own, and what rights are given to the shares that Mr. Investor own?

Those rights are things like veto powers, rights to dividends (hypothetical in a football club, but negotiated nonetheless), rights to appoint directors, and the rights of those directors to veto things at board level.

Then there's stuff like if we got promoted would Mr. Investor have to put more money in? Is that his option or is it an obligation. Or would he be able to buy Lansdown out? 

You could give the investor the right to paint Ashton Gate yellow if that's what was negotiated.

All of this is set out in the Investment Agreement, the Shareholders' Agreement, and the articles of association of the company.

So in the Ratcliffe scenario it's possible he's been given a right to slowly buy the Glazer's shares over a period of time, possibly subject to certain triggers. 

[chinapig]

20 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

So in the Ratcliffe scenario it's possible he's been given a right to slowly buy the Glazer's shares over a period of time, possibly subject to certain triggers. 

Reportedly he will be given control of the football operation in return for a 25% stake. Whether that gives him any incentive to buy out the Glazers is open to question. Though, typically of the Glazers, a deal that was supposed to be imminent weeks ago is now dragging on.

It seems pretty clear that the Glazers don't want to sell 100% of their shares unless they get a ridiculous offer - up to £10b has been mooted.

[sh1t_ref_again]

23 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

You are too quick to ignite when anyone even questions, let alone critical of  , the Lansdowns

 

Maybe you could ask them next time you are polishing the shoes 

No, I missed a part of a reply when questioning where 200m came from, so apologised and made my point.

It's easy to miss something though as most is made up nonsense or regurgitated nonsense, based on no facts.

But thank you for your intelligent  school boy intellect reply

[bcfc01]

On 03/12/2023 at 11:48, Barrs Court Red said:

Coupled together, I think that’s probably why the language is changing to “investment” rather than “ownership”.  

I think thats maybe due to JL wanting to take over ?

[ExiledAjax]

23 hours ago, chinapig said:

Reportedly he will be given control of the football operation in return for a 25% stake. Whether that gives him any incentive to buy out the Glazers is open to question. Though, typically of the Glazers, a deal that was supposed to be imminent weeks ago is now dragging on.

It seems pretty clear that the Glazers don't want to sell 100% of their shares unless they get a ridiculous offer - up to £10b has been mooted.

The thing with Utd that is very different to us is that their top company is listed on the NYSE and has split the voting shares away from the other shares.

So you can buy all of the shares listed on the stock exchange, but because those have 1 vote each and the shares owned by the Glazers have 10 votes each, you wouldn't be able to control Man Utd.

But those stock exchange shares carry most of the economic $ value. 

So there's the rub with Utd. What is the value of control and what is the value of the stock exchange shares?

Ultimately Ratcliffe does have to buy out the Glazers if he wants control. Alternatively they can make new shares with votes over things that relate to the "football operations"...but defining that and then putting in things that stop the Glazers overriding him is all very tricky.

Oh and of course this all has to comply with UK law, Cayman Islands law, and the listing rules of the NYSE...so enjoy that web!

We don't have that complexity (thank god) 

[GrahamC]

On 03/12/2023 at 12:05, Pezo said:

I don't think I have heard him say "sell" I think he has always said "invest", beside the point the language seems to have changed to "work alongside".

I think he is obsessed with the Barcelona model, no inside knowledge but I think he is trying to appeal to someone's ego. By invest I think he means renting everything to someone in something like a club president model where they get to run it for 3 years for say £40m. Someone who is a billionaire or even half of that isn't going to care about £40m - it isn't all about money at that level of wealth it's usually about prestige and building a brand around yourself for a legacy.

That way SL cover's the losses, the investor gets the profile and god like status if we get promoted, SL keeps the underlying assets and mitigates his losses.

All guesswork though.

Quote from August 22 SL said “I would sell if it was the right deal, but I’m not actively looking to sell the club”.

That seems fairly conclusive, then (who knows if it is the case now) he would have sold if the price was right.

[Pezo]

7 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Quote from August 22 SL said “I would sell if it was the right deal, but I’m not actively looking to sell the club”.

That seems fairly conclusive, then (who knows if it is the case now) he would have sold if the price was right.

Thanks, so basically if someone makes a stupid offer then he will sell. Doesn't that apply to everything i.e. if someone offered me 4x market value for anything I had then I would likely sell it.