Give It Time

[Bs4Red]

7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don’t think it is a fair barometer but it is nonetheless the barometer Jon Lansdown and Brian Tinnion have very publicly set. It is harsh that top six this season is the yardstick that myself and other fans will be judging Manning on and I feel what could be a very decent manager is being set up to fail by the rash words of a Chairman trying to justify his decisions.

But I will be holding Manning (and, more so, Tinnion and Jon Lansdown) to the standards the club have told us to expect.

Top six. No excuses. Anything else is a failure.

That’s your decision mate and I respect that, JL has left that door open for people to use. 
For me, I’d just like to see attacking football where we dominate the ball and win more than 37% of the time. 
 

 

[Davefevs]

@Bs4Red

You’re worried about a spend of £7m…

Whilst he’s brought in £35m

Whilst working with a squad who’s saved the club £38-40m over 2.5 years on top.

Whilst keeping us in this division.

What next, water into wine?

 

 

[Sir Geoff]

7 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Not really a level playing field to expect promotion when he’s already playing catch up. 
 

I don’t agree with the Lansdowns that this is a promotion squad but it’s sure as hell better than 15th. 
 

Give the bloke a chance, I’d be happy to see us play some attacking football and try and play on the front foot. Because JL got that one absolutely spot on. The football wasn’t great under NP however you spin it.

Re your last paragraph, how many clubs get promoted ( without parachute payments) playing that way. I would hazard a guess and say none. That is playstation stuff. A tough to beat pragmatic team has more chance of getting through the play offs. Remember Huddersfield didn't win a game in the play offs and if memory serves correct only scored one goal. But they still got promoted.

[Bs4Red]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

@Bs4Red

You’re worried about a spend of £7m…

Whilst he’s brought in £35m

Whilst working with a squad who’s saved the club £38-40m over 2.5 years on top.

Whilst keeping us in this division.

What next, water into wine?

 

 

I was stating that he has been given money. 
The statement was he has had no money. 
I didn’t mention anything regarding the amount he sold, what he brought in etc. 

Not sure where I insinuated I was worried? 
 

[Sir Geoff]

3 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

That’s your decision mate and I respect that, JL has left that door open for people to use. 
For me, I’d just like to see attacking football where we dominate the ball and win more than 37% of the time. 
 

 

Go and support Liverpool then, cos not many teams play that way in the Championship.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Agree on 5 maybe I was adding the ones from January too. 
Difference with LJ is he was pushing play offs, alongside that I personally don’t feel some of those signings were made by him. More by MA. 
 

LJ also sold a great deal of players for decent £ 

I get the injuries side of it but had we made 3 loan singings or signed a couple more players we wouldn’t be in that mess. 
 

I get both sides of the argument mate but I just feel like NP was here to do a job and he did that. 
 

I am excited regarding Manning and hope he can prove it

 

And he effing well spent it, too, doubling wage budget, quadrupling amortisation in the process.

Nige had no budget to make loan signings.

Thats not getting both sides of the argument at all, that’s comparing apples with pears, Sorry.  

 

I’m up for Manning’s appointment, it has no relevance to Nige’s sacking.  I just Nige on his context.  I will judge Manning on what he does based on his context.  I do think our hierarchy have put him in a position they didn’t need to.

[Bs4Red]

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

Re your last paragraph, how many clubs get promoted ( without parachute payments) playing that way. I would hazard a guess and say none. That is playstation stuff. A tough to beat pragmatic team has more chance of getting through the play offs. Remember Huddersfield didn't win a game in the play offs and if memory serves correct only scored one goal. But they still got promoted.

Luton played outrageously good football last year and got promoted with parachute payments. They were on the front foot, doesn’t mean they were not pragmatic. 
 

You can be solid at the back and still be on the front foot and play attractive football. 
 

It’s not one or the other. 

[Bs4Red]

4 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Go and support Liverpool then, cos not many teams play that way in the Championship.

So because my opinion doesn’t suit yours I shouldn’t support City. What a strange thing to say, can’t we all long to watch better football. Especially at home 

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Luton played outrageously good football last year

Now I really know you’ve got no ******* clue! 

[Bs4Red]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And he effing well spent it, too, doubling wage budget, quadrupling amortisation in the process.

Nige had no budget to make loan signings.

Thats not getting both sides of the argument at all, that’s comparing apples with pears, Sorry.  

 

I’m up for Manning’s appointment, it has no relevance to Nige’s sacking.  I just Nige on his context.  I will judge Manning on what he does based on his context.  I do think our hierarchy have put him in a position they didn’t need to.

Again your opinion Fevs, I’m not saying you’re wrong. Also think slightly unfair on LJ nobody knows whether all those signings were his or MA. 
 

I wasn’t comparing the spending between LJ and NP as very different situations but obviously something except FFP stopped the owners giving Nige ££. We can all speculate as to what that is. 
 

It’s a shame this site isn’t a place for debate anymore if you’re not on the right side. 
 

Il stick to my guns and see where we are come the end of the next gaffers tenure. 

[Bs4Red]

3 minutes ago, lenred said:

Now I really know you’ve got no ******* clue! 

At times last year Luton were excellent on sky. 
 

[chowie]

8 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Luton played outrageously good football last year and got promoted with parachute payments. They were on the front foot, doesn’t mean they were not pragmatic. 
 

You can be solid at the back and still be on the front foot and play attractive football. 
 

It’s not one or the other. 

For me I think the word is effective football.

[Sir Geoff]

6 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

So because my opinion doesn’t suit yours I shouldn’t support City. What a strange thing to say, can’t we all long to watch better football. Especially at home 

Ive been pretty happy withe the matches I have watched home and away this season. You forget that just over 3 years ago we were celebrating the rarity of a shot on target and went several games without winning a corner. 

[lenred]

Just now, Bs4Red said:

At times last year Luton were excellent on sky. 
 

Course they were. But that’s not what you said. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just out of interest let's say the last 7 seasons, managers of promoted clubs:

Parachute

2016-17:

Benitez

2017-18:

Warnock, Jokanovic

2018-19:

Smith

2019-20:

Bilic, Parker

2020-21:

Farke, Munoz

2021-22:

Silva, Parker

2022-23:

Kompany, Heckingbottom

Non Parachute

2016-17:

Hughton, Wagner

2017-18:

Nuno

2018-19:

Farke, Wilder

2019-20:

Bielsa

2020-21:

Frank

2021-22:

Cooper

2022-23:

Edwards

[Bs4Red]

Just now, chowie said:

For me I think the word is effective football.

At times they knocked it about very nicely and we’re able to mix it up too. 
Maybe outrageously good was a slight exaggeration but compared to our football at least it was exciting to watch. 

[Sheltons Army]

Interesting that some of those looking to stick the knife into Pearson , and who were for some time.....

 

’well He had 2 1/2 years ....he had money ........’

were also part of the LJ cult , he who could do no wrong , who they Vociferously backed right to the day of his long overdue departure ..... 

Thats the LJ who spent at every corner , and racked up the start of a financial crash when he was given a new four year contract, during a horrific period of result ,  3 years into his tenure...... and was eventually disposed of 4 1/2 years into his tenure 

 

Even for the Newbie Bristol Sport bots with ‘Red’ in every name , or the LJ fan boys ,

Lets not talk money spent , wage bills or time given

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[Sheltons Army]

8 minutes ago, lenred said:

Now I really know you’ve got no ******* clue! 

It’s actually hilarious 

[Bazooka Joe]

28 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I am excited regarding Manning and hope he can prove it

The Lansdowns have proved me wrong again.

We do have fans that are easily excited.

All about opinions. You're entitled to yours.

[Sir Geoff]

31 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

That’s your decision mate and I respect that, JL has left that door open for people to use. 
For me, I’d just like to see attacking football where we dominate the ball and win more than 37% of the time. 
 

 

Interested to know how you would play that way with our current squad of players or would you use most of the nest egg to replace them. If so where are you going to find fast exciting front foot players and pay them Championship wages ?

[Numero Uno]

Guys.....it doesn't matter what Crayon Boy and the Snake said.....we don't have a top 6 squad and we ain't finishing top 6. That's reality. We lack quality to challenge the top teams and it showed on Saturday. You can run, play on the front foot and press like **** all afternoon but if you don't have players that can spot runs early and play the pass or carry the ball, beat a man and deliver quality it doesn't matter and won't make a significant difference over a large sample of games.

I'm as pissed off as anyone about the way Nige was treated but going in all guns blazing on the new Manager over comments made by two ******* idiots talking complete and utter shite ain't right either imo. If you do have to make some form of protest MAKE SURE IT IS DIRECTED IN THE RIGHT AREA TO THE PEOPLE WHO DESERVE THE STICK. Liam Manning isn't that recipient, it would be childish as **** to start getting on his back.

As far as I'm concerned, looking at our squad, Manning only gets it in the neck if we are fighting a relegation battle next March because we certainly shouldn't be in that position any more than we should be in the top 6 in March.........looking at it without the stupidity and short term agenda that Bristol Sport were executing that is. Guaranteed, the next statements you hear from Laurel and Hardy will be a reset of expectations. 100%.

[Bs4Red]

8 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

The Lansdowns have proved me wrong again.

We do have fans that are easily excited.

All about opinions. You're entitled to yours.

Could say likewise regarding fans wanting NP to stay after very little progress on the pitch. 
 

Just like what I’ve seen and read regarding Manning over the last week. Only time will tell mate but hope he’s a hit, the same as I supported while NP was in charge. 

[Sheltons Army]

7 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Could say likewise regarding fans wanting NP to stay after very little progress on the pitch. 
 

Just like what I’ve seen and read regarding Manning over the last week. Only time will tell mate but hope he’s a hit, the same as I supported while NP was in charge. 

 

[Davefevs]

36 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Again your opinion Fevs, I’m not saying you’re wrong. Also think slightly unfair on LJ nobody knows whether all those signings were his or MA. 
 

I wasn’t comparing the spending between LJ and NP as very different situations but obviously something except FFP stopped the owners giving Nige ££. We can all speculate as to what that is. 
 

It’s a shame this site isn’t a place for debate anymore if you’re not on the right side. 
 

Il stick to my guns and see where we are come the end of the next gaffers tenure. 

Ok, I’ll go down my usual mantra, I was trying to be simplistic….when I refer to LJ’s spending or recruitment, I mean - SL / JL / MA / SG and LJ.  It’s a collective recruitment process, some being more heavily involved.

EVERY SIGNING WAS AN LJ SIGNING BECAUSE HE HAD THE FINAL SAY.

There were no LJ signings versus MA signings.  That’s just an excuse depending on whether you want to sit on one side of the debate or the other.  So I’m referring to the period where the “club” spent oodles.

The thing that stopped them investing money on players was “personal” (not the best word, but I can’t think of another).  Why, because Tins told us we were using the sane recruitment model for 18 months, so it’s not like they will be looking for different players under Manning as they were under Nige, it’s the same profile.  So why not bring them in and try to get the team into a better position than they currently are.

Its bonkers.  To a fan it feel like self-harm.  “We” could still have spent money on players in the summer regardless of whether they’d planned to sack Nige or not.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'll probably make a graph or something later but the amount we ploughed back in under Lee Johnson vs NP is night and day.

Oh we made 3 major transfer profits, but the wage bill went up maybe 80% in 4 seasons and the fees paid out- check Additions and I'm using the Football Club not the Holdings accounts here, wow.

We didn't plough back 100% but might and day as set against NP. (I appreciate aspects of this were tied to FFP too). One extreme to another.

Maybe it was pushing 100% of transfer profits back in as fee and wage combined. Will have to add 4 seasons worth and work it out.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'll probably make a graph or something later but the amount we ploughed back in under Lee Johnson vs NP is night and day.

Oh we made 3 major transfer profits, but the wage bill went up maybe 80% in 4 seasons and the fees paid out- check Additions and I'm using the Football Club not the Holdings accounts here, wow.

We didn't plough back 100% but might and day as set against NP. (I appreciate aspects of this were tied to FFP too). One extreme to another.

Maybe it was pushing 100% of transfer profits back in as fee and wage combined. Will have to add 4 seasons worth and work it out.

If only we knew additional things like loan fees and agent fees.  Well, we do know agent fees, EFL publishes them, but they are annual, not seasonal.

[milo1111]

28 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Guys.....it doesn't matter what Crayon Boy and the Snake said.....we don't have a top 6 squad and we ain't finishing top 6. That's reality. We lack quality to challenge the top teams and it showed on Saturday. You can run, play on the front foot and press like **** all afternoon but if you don't have players that can spot runs early and play the pass or carry the ball, beat a man and deliver quality it doesn't matter and won't make a significant difference over a large sample of games.

I'm as pissed off as anyone about the way Nige was treated but going in all guns blazing on the new Manager over comments made by two ******* idiots talking complete and utter shite ain't right either imo. If you do have to make some form of protest MAKE SURE IT IS DIRECTED IN THE RIGHT AREA TO THE PEOPLE WHO DESERVE THE STICK. Liam Manning isn't that recipient, it would be childish as **** to start getting on his back.

As far as I'm concerned, looking at our squad, Manning only gets it in the neck if we are fighting a relegation battle next March because we certainly shouldn't be in that position any more than we should be in the top 6 in March.........looking at it without the stupidity and short term agenda that Bristol Sport were executing that is. Guaranteed, the next statements you hear from Laurel and Hardy will be a reset of expectations. 100%.

Brilliant post. I can’t wait for the resetting of expectations shall we do a sweepstake on when this might come??

[Redrascal2]

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

With Pearson I think the majority understood it was a process that was going to take time due to the restrictions in place and we all had faith that eventually Pearson would be able to continue to improve us.

However he has gone now because the board stated we should be challenging with the squad we have. There is also an expectation that we out perform our ability and budget. So what's that, top 2? 

So unfortunately for Manning, he doesn't get the same period of grace that Pearson got. He doesn't get time to adjust to this league. He needs to hit the ground running and have a successful season. 

 

I think Manning has to be given the time any new coach/manager gets. He should not be held responsible for the bullshit spoken by the Lansdowns.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If only we knew additional things like loan fees and agent fees.  Well, we do know agent fees, EFL publishes them, but they are annual, not seasonal.

My assumption although could be wrong is that it could be included under the relevant Additions section.

Ironically Derby published Agents fees until it all went wrong under Mel, separate category of Additions in Intangible. Am sure they did.

[luke_bristol]

Manning should be given time in the same way NP was, i.e. only if he slashes the wage bill and delivers year on year improvements in league position. 

I could stomach missing the play offs this season as he needs to bed in, but JL and BT have set the expectation, so I don’t think letting him go at this point next season if we’re not in the POs is inconsistent with the standard that JL and BT have set.

I hope he’s on a two year or 12 month rolling contract with an option for extensions based on top 6 finishes.