Give It Time

[The Original OTIB]

That is the oft heard Mantra at the start of a new tenure. Blocks of 10 games, etc. In this instance, I would say no. We've been given the reasons and told that everything is set up for upward trajectory and success. They have made their decision, so let's see it. Unfair? I think not, for that is the premise. I suspect that 75 points will be needed to get top 6 this season, that is another 54 points from 31 games. That is a high number of points per game, and likely that the new incumbent will have to better his historical win percentage. The very best of luck to whomsoever that is, I really hope they can do it. With the squad as it is, i think not and it will need significant (but sensible) investment in the summer. By January 2024 I predict that we will not be near enough to mount a serious challenge this season. On the basis laid forth by JL and BT, we need to see something spectacular within 5 or 6 games to convince. Bring it on ... one hopes.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by The Original OTIB
sp

[Robin101]

Please be patient everyone. We have only waited 43 years for top-flight football.

[YGBjammy]

not even in the door and you're not giving him any time jfc

[The Original OTIB]

5 minutes ago, YGBjammy said:

not even in the door and you're not giving him any time jfc

Based upon the premise given by the JL and BT. Read it again, for clarity.

[YGBjammy]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

Based upon the premise given by the JL and BT. Read it again, for clarity.

It's all just spin and PR. If we finish in top half he won't get sacked, I'm sure of it. 

[Hayfield8]

7 minutes ago, YGBjammy said:

not even in the door and you're not giving him any time jfc

You can blame that on Jon and Brian, telling us our squad is top 6 worthy. By their estimations he should hit the ground running. No excuses.

[Roe]

To be fair to JL (never thought I'd say that), he did say that they'd essentially given Pearson 2 seasons to be challenging and now that we (apparently) aren't (I'd disagree) they feel a change makes sense. 

I expect Manning would be given less time given the circumstances but they'd still give some time

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Roe said:

To be fair to JL (never thought I'd say that), he did say that they'd essentially given Pearson 2 seasons to be challenging and now that we (apparently) aren't (I'd disagree) they feel a change makes sense. 

I expect Manning would be given less time given the circumstances but they'd still give some time

A season and a half was firefighting FFP though. NP and Gould

Then the inconsistency of youth, which still very much apply to Bell and Conway.

The 2 season timeframe was somewhat optimistic, let alone the lack of backing to replace Scott then all of the injuries.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[The Original OTIB]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A season and a half was firefighting FFP though. NP and Gould

Then the inconsistency of youth, which still very much apply to Bell and Conway.

The 2 season timeframe was somewhat optimistic, let alone the lack of backing to replace Scott then all of the injuries.

They have rolled the dice and now put the foot down, pedal to the metal (mixed metaphors but you get what I mean). If the car crashes, it is on them. Delighted if it works out and promotion follows. The odds are against it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

They have rolled the dice and now put the foot down, pedal to the metal (mixed metaphors but you get what I mean). If the car crashes, it is on them. Delighted if it works out and promotion follows. The odds are against it.

Oh yeah now they've made the change and seemingly sticking rigidly to the idea of 2 years and then challenge, the pressure is on the hierarchy and indeed by extension Manning.

[The Original OTIB]

20 minutes ago, YGBjammy said:

It's all just spin and PR. If we finish in top half he won't get sacked, I'm sure of it. 

Not saying he will, but what will be the next cunning "plan"? They have talked the talk, if it fails, THEY are for the exit door.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I expect based on the wisdom of our board, a deep into the season a serious and sustained top 6 push, injuries permitting of course. By top 6 I mean playoffs basically.

That is the next step isn't it, that was why Pearson was sacked wasn't it.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I expect based on the wisdom of our board, a deep into the season a serious and sustained top 6 push, injuries permitting of course. By top 6 I mean playoffs basically.

That is the next step isn't it, that was why Pearson was sacked wasn't it.

With Pearson I think the majority understood it was a process that was going to take time due to the restrictions in place and we all had faith that eventually Pearson would be able to continue to improve us.

However he has gone now because the board stated we should be challenging with the squad we have. There is also an expectation that we out perform our ability and budget. So what's that, top 2? 

So unfortunately for Manning, he doesn't get the same period of grace that Pearson got. He doesn't get time to adjust to this league. He needs to hit the ground running and have a successful season. 

 

[The Original OTIB]

16 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

With Pearson I think the majority understood it was a process that was going to take time due to the restrictions in place and we all had faith that eventually Pearson would be able to continue to improve us.

However he has gone now because the board stated we should be challenging with the squad we have. There is also an expectation that we out perform our ability and budget. So what's that, top 2? 

So unfortunately for Manning, he doesn't get the same period of grace that Pearson got. He doesn't get time to adjust to this league. He needs to hit the ground running and have a successful season. 

 

Around 1.75 pts per game from here. Can you realistically see that? I can't, I'm afraid. Whilst not slick, we've been hard to beat. If we try to be overly "front foot" and more open as a consequence, I fear that we will ship more than we score in the short term.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Robin101 said:

Please be patient everyone. We have only waited 43 years for top-flight football.

Pearson was sacked at the alter of promotion this season. This guy needs to hit the ground running! 

[Lew-T]

1 hour ago, The Original OTIB said:

That is the oft heard Mantra at the start of a new tenure. Blocks of 10 games, etc. In this instance, I would say no. We've been given the reasons and told that everything is set up for upward trajectory and success. They have made their decision, so let's see it. Unfair? I think not, for that is the premise. I suspect that 75 points will be needed to get top 6 this season, that is another 54 points from 31 games. That is a high number of points per game, and likely that the new incumbent will have to better his historical win percentage. The very best of luck to whomsoever that is, I really hope they can do it. With the squad as it is, i think not and it will need significant (but sensible) investment in the summer. By January 2024 I predict that we will not be near enough to mount a serious challenge this season. On the basis laid forth by JL and BT, we need to see something spectacular within 5 or 6 games to convince. Bring it on ... one hopes.

 

Back to square one. Another ‘rebuild’ that was completely unnecessary in the first place.

We were making progress. Slowly granted, but progress nonetheless. Now we have this unproven chap coming in with new philosophy’s and ideas that we didn’t ask for.

[TonyTonyTony]

32 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

However he has gone now because the board stated we should be challenging with the squad we have. There is also an expectation that we out perform our ability and budget. So what's that, top 2? 

So unfortunately for Manning, he doesn't get the same period of grace that Pearson got. He doesn't get time to adjust to this league. He needs to hit the ground running and have a successful season. 

You know that the Lansdowns make a decision, then find any old bollocks to back it up right ?It happens a lot, for example when people get made redundant in a company. They pick person they don't like, then "justify" the redundancy by scoring them unfairly. As long as a process is followed, its allowed. Pearson was scored unfairly, and was gone. Totally unfair.  Nobody believes we have a top 2, or even 6 squad no matter what JL and BT says.

They won't sack Manning for not being top 6, unless he completely bombs, as it was all bollocks in the first place. I wouldnt put it past them to throw Tinnion under the bus, however.

Do you want Manning, if it is him, to fail, so you get even angier at the Lansdowns and proclaim they are total sheisters?

We know that anyway. What then? SL still owns the club - its not like you can get rid of him.

Next up : Minds being blown when Manning is given January transfer money, when Pearson was told their wasn't any. Is it more bollocks, yes - but thats what they do.

[Slack Bladder]

I don't think he will be given time 

Pearson had done the hard, dirty work of welding the axe and trimming the squad. 

The platform is set and we now know NP was sacked because the board thought we should be challenging THIS season. If that is the case I can't see the board wanting to wait another 2 or 3 years for this guy to find his feet and rebuild.

The fanbase who were being patient under Pearson, need not be patient anymore?

[harvey54]

Next week, how to nail a jelly to the ceiling 

[Bs4Red]

4 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

That is the oft heard Mantra at the start of a new tenure. Blocks of 10 games, etc. In this instance, I would say no. We've been given the reasons and told that everything is set up for upward trajectory and success. They have made their decision, so let's see it. Unfair? I think not, for that is the premise. I suspect that 75 points will be needed to get top 6 this season, that is another 54 points from 31 games. That is a high number of points per game, and likely that the new incumbent will have to better his historical win percentage. The very best of luck to whomsoever that is, I really hope they can do it. With the squad as it is, i think not and it will need significant (but sensible) investment in the summer. By January 2024 I predict that we will not be near enough to mount a serious challenge this season. On the basis laid forth by JL and BT, we need to see something spectacular within 5 or 6 games to convince. Bring it on ... one hopes.

 

Don’t think it’s fair to have that as your barometer when the previous managers team was so inconsistent and he couldn’t get enough out of the players. 
Manning has an almost impossible task to get top 6. But if he can get us firing and embed his style, alongside showing some attacking football and maybe even not having 40% possession at home would be a good start. 
 

This obsession with Pearson is actually laughable. The football was bang average, we won 38% of our games under him and he’s had time and money. 
 

Time for someone new to freshen it up. Wipe your tears away and get behind the new gaffer. Start of a great couple of years this. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Don’t think it’s fair to have that as your barometer when the previous managers team was so inconsistent and he couldn’t get enough out of the players. 
Manning has an almost impossible task to get top 6. But if he can get us firing and embed his style, alongside showing some attacking football and maybe even not having 40% possession at home would be a good start. 
 

This obsession with Pearson is actually laughable. The football was bang average, we won 38% of our games under him and he’s had time and money. 
 

Time for someone new to freshen it up. Wipe your tears away and get behind the new gaffer. Start of a great couple of years this. 

Can't see these sunlit uplands, not at all.

Time and money, it's been cutbacks, some of it whoever came in it would be needed, for the most part since he joined.

Money for Manning? Why not for NP.

[Bs4Red]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Can't see these sunlit uplands, not at all.

Time and money, it's been cutbacks, some of it whoever came in it would be needed, for the most part since he joined.

Money for Manning? Why not for NP.

NP has had money though hasn’t he? 
I don’t understand where this theory comes from. He’s not had a great deal granted but spent circa £7m this summer and we were 15th at time of departure. 
 

I wasn’t a fan of NP, I’ve made that very clear. I appreciate the job he had done off the pitch but for me there is barely any improvement on it. 
 

You can spin any point to either side of the coin you’re on, I don’t think JL/SL have seen enough from NP to warrant chucking money. 
 

The sacking was harsh in my opinion but NP shouldn’t be heralded for anything he produced on the pitch. 
 

Just my opinion mate, pitchforks have been out with every post I’ve put because nobody wants to discuss the possibility that maybe NP was failing on the pitch. 

[The Original OTIB]

12 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Don’t think it’s fair to have that as your barometer when the previous managers team was so inconsistent and he couldn’t get enough out of the players. 
Manning has an almost impossible task to get top 6. But if he can get us firing and embed his style, alongside showing some attacking football and maybe even not having 40% possession at home would be a good start. 
 

This obsession with Pearson is actually laughable. The football was bang average, we won 38% of our games under him and he’s had time and money. 
 

Time for someone new to freshen it up. Wipe your tears away and get behind the new gaffer. Start of a great couple of years this. 

Exactly what as my barometer? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

NP has had money though hasn’t he? 
I don’t understand where this theory comes from. He’s not had a great deal granted but spent circa £7m this summer and we were 15th at time of departure. 
 

I wasn’t a fan of NP, I’ve made that very clear. I appreciate the job he had done off the pitch but for me there is barely any improvement on it. 
 

You can spin any point to either side of the coin you’re on, I don’t think JL/SL have seen enough from NP to warrant chucking money. 
 

The sacking was harsh in my opinion but NP shouldn’t be heralded for anything he produced on the pitch. 
 

Just my opinion mate, pitchforks have been out with every post I’ve put because nobody wants to discuss the possibility that maybe NP was failing on the pitch. 

£7m are you sure?

£5m feels more like..Perhaps £7m when we add the January expenditure.

In came up to let's be generous say between £20-25m for Scott in summer, plus ant kind of fee for Bentley, Towler, Low in January, anything we maybe got cor Wilson tbis summer and ant compensation for Massengo.

The % reinvested is well below that of Lee Johnson.

Oh and pushing towards £10m for Semenyo in January which netted off FFP nicely.

I see the argument on one level, but the injuries habe been derailing us somewhat so he isn't really being judged on that level a playing field.

[LondonBristolian]

11 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Don’t think it’s fair to have that as your barometer when the previous managers team was so inconsistent and he couldn’t get enough out of the players. 
Manning has an almost impossible task to get top 6. But if he can get us firing and embed his style, alongside showing some attacking football and maybe even not having 40% possession at home would be a good start. 
 

This obsession with Pearson is actually laughable. The football was bang average, we won 38% of our games under him and he’s had time and money. 
 

Time for someone new to freshen it up. Wipe your tears away and get behind the new gaffer. Start of a great couple of years this. 

I don’t think it is a fair barometer but it is nonetheless the barometer Jon Lansdown and Brian Tinnion have very publicly set. It is harsh that top six this season is the yardstick that myself and other fans will be judging Manning on and I feel what could be a very decent manager is being set up to fail by the rash words of a Chairman trying to justify his decisions.

But I will be holding Manning (and, more so, Tinnion and Jon Lansdown) to the standards the club have told us to expect.

Top six. No excuses. Anything else is a failure.

[Bs4Red]

2 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Exactly what as my barometer? 

Not really a level playing field to expect promotion when he’s already playing catch up. 
 

I don’t agree with the Lansdowns that this is a promotion squad but it’s sure as hell better than 15th. 
 

Give the bloke a chance, I’d be happy to see us play some attacking football and try and play on the front foot. Because JL got that one absolutely spot on. The football wasn’t great under NP however you spin it.

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don’t think it is a fair barometer but it is nonetheless the barometer Jon Lansdown and Brian Tinnion have very publicly set. It is harsh that top six this season is the yardstick that myself and other fans will be judging Manning on and I feel what could be a very decent manager is being set up to fail by the rash words of a Chairman trying to justify his decisions.

But I will be holding Manning (and, more so, Tinnion and Jon Lansdown) to the standards the club have told us to expect.

Top six. No excuses. Anything else is a failure.

This is what people are failing to understand. 

It's nothing personal towards Manning. He knows the expectations that are being set and that's top 6 this season with this squad. That's what he is signing up for so for that he doesn't get afforded time. He has to deliver and if he doesn't he will be judged on that as will those who set those expectations. 

Manning himself must have told the club that he believes he can lead us to top 6 this season otherwise they'd not be appointing him. So he has to be judged on that.

[Bs4Red]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

£7m are you sure?

£5m feels more like..Perhaps £7m when we add the January expenditure.

In came up to let's be generous say between £20-25m for Scott in summer, plus ant kind of fee for Bentley, Towler, Low in January, anything we maybe got cor Wilson tbis summer and ant compensation for Massengo.

The % reinvested is well below that of Lee Johnson.

Oh and pushing towards £10m for Semenyo in January which netted off FFP nicely.

I see the argument on one level, but the injuries habe been derailing us somewhat so he isn't really being judged on that level a playing field.

Agree on 5 maybe I was adding the ones from January too. 
Difference with LJ is he was pushing play offs, alongside that I personally don’t feel some of those signings were made by him. More by MA. 
 

LJ also sold a great deal of players for decent £ 

I get the injuries side of it but had we made 3 loan singings or signed a couple more players we wouldn’t be in that mess. 
 

I get both sides of the argument mate but I just feel like NP was here to do a job and he did that. 
 

I am excited regarding Manning and hope he can prove it

 

[The Original OTIB]

7 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Not really a level playing field to expect promotion when he’s already playing catch up. 
 

I don’t agree with the Lansdowns that this is a promotion squad but it’s sure as hell better than 15th. 
 

Give the bloke a chance, I’d be happy to see us play some attacking football and try and play on the front foot. Because JL got that one absolutely spot on. The football wasn’t great under NP however you spin it.

We are oven ready according to the powers that be. Are they wrong then? Training was not conducive to a fit squad playing in the club's style and identity. Is that true? They expect a quick improvement. Do you not share that view? What does " front foot" actually mean to you with our squad? How might we achieve it?

Edited November 6, 2023 by The Original OTIB
Sp

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Not really a level playing field to expect promotion when he’s already playing catch up. 
 

Nonsense. We are four points off the playoffs with less than a third of the season gone.

That is scarcely playing catch up at all and it would be embarrassing for Lansdown, Tinnion or Manning to use that as an excuse for failing to meet the standards set out.

Jon Lansdown and Brian Tinnion have publicly promised a promotion challenge and Manning must deliver or be judged a failure.