First impressions post Nige

[slartibartfast]

3 hours ago, Iron Acton Red said:

Was it Brentford we beat?

yep 

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

But if true that's an advantage derived from our financial strategy rather than the increase in cash received.

It is, but I don't know how best to describe it.

Football moves on swiftly. In this instance SL pulling the drawbridge while say Birmingham, Coventry, Hull, Stoke spend to various degrees is standing still.

On a wider SL point, there is a strong element in football of "What have you done for us lately".

As in the industry and the game moves quickly, the historic stuff slowly fades from view if we are seen to stall or stagnate.

Should we choose to use it is key..that would require SL pouring in cash and equity again.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[lotusman]

4 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's a really problematic flaw in their rationale.

If all of their decision making is based on their opinion that the current squad is of the quality required to finish in the top 6 then all of their decisions are starting from a false position.

Also, to my knowledge, they've not come out and said why they think the squad is so good. What is about the players, either individually or as a unit, that gives them the impression that we're a top 6 team that just needs a bit of coaching to realise it's potential.

Thing is, there is an argument imo that our defence is nearly top 6 standard, and our strikers can finish chances at that level as well. The rest...the rest is questionable imo.

Watched the Ben HD Youtiube Championship under & over achievers so far this season, his viewpoint is based on squad values and of course can be really subjective. However, BRISTOL CITY hold 3rd place in over achievement with only Ipswich and Preston ahead of us. Your comments are spot on, may be its time for J.L. & B.T. to pay a visit to the optometrist.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Football moves on swiftly. In this instance SL closing the drawbridge while say Birmingham, Coventry, Hull, Stoke spend to various degrees is standing still.

It means you’re going backwards

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 hours ago, Olé said:

Taking account of the opposition, today was the worst football we’ve played in 18 months and respectfully, I have been at every single one of the matches, freezing cold Tuesday nights in Huddersfield and all.

Birmingham and Reading away last season run it close but both were better teams than QPR who even objectively are one of the worst Championship teams I’ve ever seen and had absolutely nothing about them.

The game was there for us on a plate, QPR looked like a team waiting to lose again and yet we ‘suddenly’ managed to look confused and scared and that is solely as a result of the change the club decided to make.

Of course it is “far too early” to judge Manning, but if the owners choose to press the reset button mid season then it is never too early to judge that decision and on the basis of yesterday it is an act of self-sabotage.

After watching that QPR team yesterday, I'm fully convinced that a Nigel Pearson team would now be sitting 2 points off the play offs which imo constitutes challenging. 

But of course that's why they got rid when they did, knowing we had 2 winnable games coming up. 

[Redrascal2]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It is, but I don't know how best to describe it.

Football moves on swiftly. In this instance SL pulling the drawbridge while say Birmingham, Coventry, Hull, Stoke spend to various degrees is standing still.

On a wider SL point, there is a strong element in football of "What have you done for us lately".

As in the industry and the game moves quickly, the historic stuff slowly fades from view if we are seen to stall or stagnate.

Should we choose to use it is key..that would require SL pouring in cash and equity again.

Apart from losing Pearson the biggest disappointment for me is that it would appear that Manning will get no serious support in the January window. It was obvious that they wouldn't help NP but you would have thought a new manager would get some backing. Particularly with our deficiencies in midfield and attack.

[Superjack]

21 hours ago, Frenchay Red said:

I wonder whether getting rid of Pearson was more important to them than appointing Manning.

You can stop wondering.

[Superjack]

18 hours ago, Cristored said:

Purse strings will have been released long before then. 

Tell your boss it's too late.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

Apart from losing Pearson the biggest disappointment for me is that it would appear that Manning will get no serious support in the January window. It was obvious that they wouldn't help NP but you would have thought a new manager would get some backing. Particularly with our deficiencies in midfield and attack.

It's a difficult one really. Yes I agree we could do with some additions in key areas.

However for the strategy to retain credibility serious work would need to wait until the summer. Perhaps the odd loan, more likely TGH loan to perm..if say Kelly or Brownhill go in January and a sell on arises, what football makes etc.

[bcfcnick]

7 hours ago, Spreadsheet Boy said:

None of us know their wages, but speculation says James is in £15k, Weimann £10-12k, Williams £18k (signed pre-Covid), King £3-5k.  That’s £45-50k p.w. (£2.5m).  I wouldn’t say that is a decent amount in terms of using it to reshape the squad per se.  FWIW I think Andi triggered a 4th year in his contract so still think he’ll be under contract.

7 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It depends if you want to completely overhaul the squad with say six or seven signings and I really wouldn't want to see that.  On the contrary, I think that up to 50k per week in wages is a decent sum given we'll be looking to make additions from what's perceived to be the cream of leagues 1 and 2 and inevitably there will be one or two others (Mehmeti?) moved on.   No doubt there is a bit of scope to add to that as well.  Hopefully, there is a gem or two that will come through the Academy as well.  We have McCorie and Benarous to come back who will be like new signings as well.  If he stays fit I feel Benarous could be the player Mehmeti was signed to be.  The attacking maverick midfielder with flair and a bit more footballing intelligence than Mehmeti has shown so far.  

Whilst Tinnion will produce his list of three for any position sought, I hope there is enough flexibility and, for want of a better word, humility, to accept direct suggestions from Manning as he will know the best players that will suit his system from the lower leagues.  Aside from the funds freed up, I don't doubt there will be a bit of flexibility to bring in four or five players that fit the way Manning wants to play.  We have a solid defence and decent players in midfield plus I don't doubt Conway will come good. So we don't need to completely overhaul the squad.  A goal-scorer, attacking midfield player, goalkeeper and defensive midfielder would be ideal.  No doubt the loan system will be used a bit more than Pearson tapped into.

So in a nutshell, I think the time to judge Manning will be next season after he does some re-shaping of the squad.  He'll get that time of course and the JL nonsense about wanting a top six with the current squad was just because he couldn't say amongst other reasons that he wanted to get rid of a manager where there was a bit of friction coupled with concerns about his health and future capability to be fully 'hands-on'.

[Superjack]

56 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's a difficult one really. Yes I agree we could do with some additions in key areas.

However for the strategy to retain credibility serious work would need to wait until the summer. Perhaps the odd loan, more likely TGH loan to perm..if say Kelly or Brownhill go in January and a sell on arises, what football makes etc.

Lansdown has already proved that this statement was a barefaced lie.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Lansdown has already proved that this statement was a barefaced lie.

I'd say, it depends and time will tell.

At the very least it was misleading but if we are spending up to our budget now ie cashflow, self-financing in that regard and something such as I dunno a sell-on arises that I see no reason that shouldn't go straight back in.

Whether it does well..if a sell on did arise and still didn't go straight back it would be into straight up lying territory IMO.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

It depends if you want to completely overhaul the squad with say six or seven signings and I really wouldn't want to see that.  On the contrary, I think that up to 50k per week in wages is a decent sum given we'll be looking to make additions from what's perceived to be the cream of leagues 1 and 2 and inevitably there will be one or two others (Mehmeti?) moved on.   No doubt there is a bit of scope to add to that as well.  Hopefully, there is a gem or two that will come through the Academy as well.  We have McCorie and Benarous to come back who will be like new signings as well.  If he stays fit I feel Benarous could be the player Mehmeti was signed to be.  The attacking maverick midfielder with flair and a bit more footballing intelligence than Mehmeti has shown so far.  

Whilst Tinnion will produce his list of three for any position sought, I hope there is enough flexibility and, for want of a better word, humility, to accept direct suggestions from Manning as he will know the best players that will suit his system from the lower leagues.  Aside from the funds freed up, I don't doubt there will be a bit of flexibility to bring in four or five players that fit the way Manning wants to play.  We have a solid defence and decent players in midfield plus I don't doubt Conway will come good. So we don't need to completely overhaul the squad.  A goal-scorer, attacking midfield player, goalkeeper and defensive midfielder would be ideal.  No doubt the loan system will be used a bit more than Pearson tapped into.

So in a nutshell, I think the time to judge Manning will be next season after he does some re-shaping of the squad.  He'll get that time of course and the JL nonsense about wanting a top six with the current squad was just because he couldn't say amongst other reasons that he wanted to get rid of a manager where there was a bit of friction coupled with concerns about his health and future capability to be fully 'hands-on'.

Agree.  And as for your nutshell para, I’m kinda with you too.  The club have created an unnecessary expectation.

[Ian M]

3 hours ago, bcfcnick said:

It depends if you want to completely overhaul the squad with say six or seven signings and I really wouldn't want to see that.  On the contrary, I think that up to 50k per week in wages is a decent sum given we'll be looking to make additions from what's perceived to be the cream of leagues 1 and 2 and inevitably there will be one or two others (Mehmeti?) moved on.   No doubt there is a bit of scope to add to that as well.  Hopefully, there is a gem or two that will come through the Academy as well.  We have McCorie and Benarous to come back who will be like new signings as well.  If he stays fit I feel Benarous could be the player Mehmeti was signed to be.  The attacking maverick midfielder with flair and a bit more footballing intelligence than Mehmeti has shown so far.  

Whilst Tinnion will produce his list of three for any position sought, I hope there is enough flexibility and, for want of a better word, humility, to accept direct suggestions from Manning as he will know the best players that will suit his system from the lower leagues.  Aside from the funds freed up, I don't doubt there will be a bit of flexibility to bring in four or five players that fit the way Manning wants to play.  We have a solid defence and decent players in midfield plus I don't doubt Conway will come good. So we don't need to completely overhaul the squad.  A goal-scorer, attacking midfield player, goalkeeper and defensive midfielder would be ideal.  No doubt the loan system will be used a bit more than Pearson tapped into.

So in a nutshell, I think the time to judge Manning will be next season after he does some re-shaping of the squad.  He'll get that time of course and the JL nonsense about wanting a top six with the current squad was just because he couldn't say amongst other reasons that he wanted to get rid of a manager where there was a bit of friction coupled with concerns about his health and future capability to be fully 'hands-on'.

I believe in the Summer TC will only have 12 months remaining on his contract? If this is the case we will probably be looking to sell him.

[Engvall’s Splinter]

31 minutes ago, Ian M said:

I believe in the Summer TC will only have 12 months remaining on his contract? If this is the case we will probably be looking to sell him.

Going to need to find some form for there to be suitable takers and worthwhile offers. I can’t see TC leaving, only extending. 

[NSFF]

12 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

After watching that QPR team yesterday, I'm fully convinced that a Nigel Pearson team would now be sitting 2 points off the play offs which imo constitutes challenging. 

But of course that's why they got rid when they did, knowing we had 2 winnable games coming up. 

This is spot on, we can’t say for sure but 2 games against 2 poor sides if we won then we’d be just outside the play offs, the loss against Cardiff the other team sacking their manger the bin man and boy blunder dived in not giving one idea of how the fans felt.

[Major Isewater]

21 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Who cares what Gary J did or didn't do. Coming in near bottom of L1 after a failed manager is in no way relevant to current situation. Other than that same failed manager is somehow manager again in all but name.

My point was that there is often a period of réajustment where the squad and new coaching staff are getting to know one another and learning new things, so completely relevant to our current situation. 
We can’t judge on one game which was against another team in a similar position. 
I agree with your point on Tinnion, for all the good that he’s done since coming back to City I am not sure he has the necessary experience for his new post. Still ,once again , time will tell. 

[Scrumpty]

On 11/11/2023 at 17:06, And Its Smith said:

To say Pearson would have got two wins in a row is clutching at straws. Didn’t do that very often in his whole time here. 

Agree, here's a view on Pearson's last 6 games in charge. It wasn't pretty. QPR comparable to Rotherham, without the late winner!

(h)  Stoke                   Reasonable performance, but mugged ourselves and threw away 2 goal lead

(a)  Rotherham        Ugly poor game, flattered by TC’s heroics

(a)  Leeds                  Too many mistakes, flattered by score

(h)  Coventry            Second best first half and struggled for rhythm. Second half better

(h)  Ipswich               Played pretty well, but lost

(a)  Cardiff                Didn’t create much, lost

[chinapig]

14 hours ago, Superjack said:

Lansdown has already proved that this statement was a barefaced lie.

"What Nigel Pearson makes Liam Manning can spend" perhaps?

[Kibs]

16 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

After watching that QPR team yesterday, I'm fully convinced that a Nigel Pearson team would now be sitting 2 points off the play offs which imo constitutes challenging. 

But of course that's why they got rid when they did, knowing we had 2 winnable games coming up. 

The irony of course being, that this is in fact, a Nigel Pearson team. 
 

And given we know that there was no lack of effort, mainly because all these players were NP signings, and are therefore good characters who wouldn’t just down tools, and that we know Liam Manning didn’t try to change much at all, choosing to work on the out if possession stuff due to lack of time, is it not reasonable to think that even with NP in charge, we may have seen the same outcome? 

[glynriley]

13 minutes ago, Kibs said:

The irony of course being, that this is in fact, a Nigel Pearson team. 
 

And given we know that there was no lack of effort, mainly because all these players were NP signings, and are therefore good characters who wouldn’t just down tools, and that we know Liam Manning didn’t try to change much at all, choosing to work on the out if possession stuff due to lack of time, is it not reasonable to think that even with NP in charge, we may have seen the same outcome? 

Possibly. But the staring XI would have been different. 

[Roadrunner]

None, will make my mind up  after the next two games.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Roadrunner

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Scrumpty said:

Agree, here's a view on Pearson's last 6 games in charge. It wasn't pretty. QPR comparable to Rotherham, without the late winner!

(h)  Stoke                   Reasonable performance, but mugged ourselves and threw away 2 goal lead

(a)  Rotherham        Ugly poor game, flattered by TC’s heroics

(a)  Leeds                  Too many mistakes, flattered by score

(h)  Coventry            Second best first half and struggled for rhythm. Second half better

(h)  Ipswich               Played pretty well, but lost

(a)  Cardiff                Didn’t create much, lost

Yes short memories among some fanatics 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Kibs said:

The irony of course being, that this is in fact, a Nigel Pearson team. 
 

And given we know that there was no lack of effort, mainly because all these players were NP signings, and are therefore good characters who wouldn’t just down tools, and that we know Liam Manning didn’t try to change much at all, choosing to work on the out if possession stuff due to lack of time, is it not reasonable to think that even with NP in charge, we may have seen the same outcome? 

Firstly Nige doesnt drop Bell and TGH. 

What we saw on Saturday was a team that was trying to pas the ball around and failed quite miserably at it. That's a departure from how we played under Pearson. 

I understand Manning wanting to start as he means to go on with his principles. But all this talk of how they worked on out of possession stuff and being solid defensively is absolutely laughable. We wasn't playing Leicester away. We were playing the absolutely woeful QPR away. 

QPR may be a step up in quality to Oxford and other League One clubs but at this level they are horrendous. 

Manning may think we looked solid, but let's remember who we were playing yea? I expect us to look solid against one of the worst teams this league has seen for a long time! 

Nige would have set us up aka Hull Away etc, get at them. 

I'm 100% confident we'd have beat them under Nige.

If we play like that against Boro we will get a hiding from them.

[Shauntaylor85]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

My point was that there is often a period of réajustment where the squad and new coaching staff are getting to know one another and learning new things, so completely relevant to our current situation. 
We can’t judge on one game which was against another team in a similar position. 
I agree with your point on Tinnion, for all the good that he’s done since coming back to City I am not sure he has the necessary experience for his new post. Still ,once again , time will tell. 

Why does everyone think it’s all the good Tinnion has done. More to that than meets the eye, it’s the coaching teams in the academy. 

[Kibs]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Firstly Nige doesnt drop Bell and TGH. 

What we saw on Saturday was a team that was trying to pas the ball around and failed quite miserably at it. That's a departure from how we played under Pearson. 

I understand Manning wanting to start as he means to go on with his principles. But all this talk of how they worked on out of possession stuff and being solid defensively is absolutely laughable. We wasn't playing Leicester away. We were playing the absolutely woeful QPR away. 

QPR may be a step up in quality to Oxford and other League One clubs but at this level they are horrendous. 

Manning may think we looked solid, but let's remember who we were playing yea? I expect us to look solid against one of the worst teams this league has seen for a long time! 

Nige would have set us up aka Hull Away etc, get at them. 

I'm 100% confident we'd have beat them under Nige.

If we play like that against Boro we will get a hiding from them.

Let’s remember who we are playing???

You talk as if we are prime Man City!!

Saturday was crap. No doubt. Don’t disagree but that’s football. 

QPR are sooooo bad that they nearly took points off Leicester in their last home game. Despite playing the last 35 minutes with 10 men, losing 1-2 to a late goal. 

I fully expect QPR looked at it and thought, bang average Bristol City next, what a great chance to get a win under the new manager.

Sorry to disappoint you but we are an average championship side, with players injured, players coming back to fitness, players out of form, a team out of form, not full of confidence and we’ve struggled to score goals all season……so how can you be so sure we win that with NP in charge?  

You can’t. Absolute nonsense. We have no divine right to beat anybody.

There is so much more to it which you refuse to acknowledge because it doesn’t suit your agenda and your view of football is so simplistic. 

[johnheadbcfc]

11 minutes ago, Kibs said:

Let’s remember who we are playing???

You talk as if we are prime Man City!!

Saturday was crap. No doubt. Don’t disagree but that’s football. 

QPR are sooooo bad that they nearly took points off Leicester in their last home game. Despite playing the last 35 minutes with 10 men, losing 1-2 to a late goal. 

I fully expect QPR looked at it and thought, bang average Bristol City next, what a great chance to get a win under the new manager.

Sorry to disappoint you but we are an average championship side, with players injured, players coming back to fitness, players out of form, a team out of form, not full of confidence and we’ve struggled to score goals all season……so how can you be so sure we win that with NP in charge?  

You can’t. Absolute nonsense. We have no divine right to beat anybody.

There is so much more to it which you refuse to acknowledge because it doesn’t suit your agenda and your view of football is so simplistic. 

Totally agree mate, how can you be so confident pearsons team would of beaten that team, when we have seen a pearson team get battered by a league 1 club before. Too many to here think football is like fifa or fm (including those that scream lansdown should **** off and sell up like he can put the club on ebay). The same people would blame lansdown if he sold the club to an awful owner.

Edited November 13, 2023 by johnheadbcfc

[UncleRed]

11 minutes ago, Kibs said:

Let’s remember who we are playing???

You talk as if we are prime Man City!!

Saturday was crap. No doubt. Don’t disagree but that’s football. 

QPR are sooooo bad that they nearly took points off Leicester in their last home game. Despite playing the last 35 minutes with 10 men, losing 1-2 to a late goal. 

I fully expect QPR looked at it and thought, bang average Bristol City next, what a great chance to get a win under the new manager.

Sorry to disappoint you but we are an average championship side, with players injured, players coming back to fitness, players out of form, a team out of form, not full of confidence and we’ve struggled to score goals all season……so how can you be so sure we win that with NP in charge?  

You can’t. Absolute nonsense. We have no divine right to beat anybody.

There is so much more to it which you refuse to acknowledge because it doesn’t suit your agenda and your view of football is so simplistic. 

Spot on I think Kibs

People get so stuck in making everything fit their agenda. When you mention things that are factual or something they miss out on purpose because it doesn’t work for them, they brand you as something you’re not.

Meanwhile you’re just trying to be balanced, fair and give your opinion. Also hoping the best for the team and whoever’s in charge.

[Clutton Caveman]

On 11/11/2023 at 17:15, And Its Smith said:

How many players do we have that can CONSISTENTLY perform well in the final third?  I’d say none 

For me looking at our squad the defence is solid especially when all centre backs are fit.

In midfield we are also pretty good although James can't go on too much longer and Weimann is finished.

Up front is our problem. All of our players are relatively short. Conway and Bell are full of potential but nowhere near the finished article. Conway cannot lead the line and Cornick is chaotic. Things will improve when Wells is back but he also is running short of time at this level.

If the management is serious about improving we need a striker proven at this level in during January.

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Totally agree mate, how can you be so confident pearsons team would have beaten that team, when we have seen a pearson team get battered by a league 1 club before. Too many to here think football is like fifa or fm (including those that scream lansdown should **** off and sell up like he can put the club on ebay). The same people would blame lansdown if he sold the club to an awful owner.

Agree, I’m pretty happy we got 4 points from these two games. I saw them as a pair of real banana skins whoever was in charge, because we have had injuries (a few returned under Fleming for the SW game). Both opponents with new managers. And above all, it’s the Championship.  With City being the type of team they are I rarely go into a match super-confident we are gonna win.  For some reason I was versus Plymouth, but not sure where that gut feel came from!

We just need to give LM time.

Watch his patterns, see how players adapt / fit into that, etc, etc.

The good thing for me on Saturday was that despite QPR having a decent spell (15 mins???) of “pressure” (retracting my use of the word dominance yesterday”), we were solid, the defensive foundations are there / still there, and we didn’t look like relinquishing the 0-0 scoreline we started the game with.  A bit of luck with 2 or 3 balls slid across the 6 yard box and we maybe get the 3 points.  We again looked strong in the latter moments of games.