We have the second best defence in the league

[pl00peh91]

with 16 goals conceded, second only to Leicester, who have conceded 10 goals.

This is ironically the area where we have suffered worst with long term injuries to McRorie and Atkinson, and also the injury to Vyner. So, hats off to Dickie, Vyner, Pring and Tanner as that is an excellent achievement.

However, outside of the bottom four teams we have scored the fewest in the league with 16.

This is a stark contrast with the 21/22 season where we conceded 77 and scored 62, and had to rely on high scoring 3-2 type wins to not get relegated.

The point is, Manning doesn’t actually have to change that much for us to be a real contender for the playoffs. We just need to figure out a system to get the most out of our attacking players. If we can maintain the same defensive foundation but see even a modest improvement in our goal output I see no reason why we shouldn’t make the playoffs this season, even if it is by consistently winning games 1-0.

Hopefully this will be the area of focus this international break, as I see no need to change anything about a defence which is clearly working.

[RedRoss]

The disconnect is our midfield. Knight is brilliant at breaking up play but what do we do with it.

I know people will shoot me down but it's my opinion we need to improve and ultimately replace James. He's too slow and cumbersome, he always commits to his credit. He also tries long passes that don't often come off but atleast he's trying something. We need a ball carrier or a play maker of some kind. Same with Weimann. He's not a midfielder and seems to have lost that pressing edge he used to have. TGH needs more games because he atleast tries to make things happen. However, he's not the complete answer. We need a new CM addition in Jan as I can't see any in our squad injured or not that can progress us.

We defend well, look for options to progress find out there isn't any recycle the ball. We do this very slowly and allow the opposition to reset. Do this a couple of times. Get frustrated hit it long or try a Hollywood pass and lose possession. When we play quickly and burst down the wings on occasions and get a ball in the box we have limited success.

There has been alot of talk about Conway but he's feeding off scraps. I think if he had more opportunities presented to him he'd put them in the back of the net.

[Kibs]

35 minutes ago, pl00peh91 said:

The point is, Manning doesn’t actually have to change that much for us to be a real contender for the playoffs. We just need to figure out a system to get the most out of our attacking players. If we can maintain the same defensive foundation but see even a modest improvement in our goal output I see no reason why we shouldn’t make the playoffs this season, even if it is by consistently winning games 1-0.

Hopefully this will be the area of focus this international break, as I see no need to change anything about a defence which is clearly working.

It would be great if it were that simple. We’re averaging a goal a game now, and we aren’t consistently winning 1-0.

Chances are that we’re going to need to take more risks on the ball in order to score more goals. Whether that is being braver on the ball, getting more bodies forward, asking the defenders to step out etc, but however we achieve it, we are likely to give away more chances too. 

Certainly going to be interesting to see how he tries to add goals to this team with the players at his disposal. 

Personally, as with NP, I’ll be content with a top half finish, happy with top 10, both of which would represent gradual progress.

[Son of Fred]

4 minutes ago, Kibs said:

It would be great if it were that simple. We’re averaging a goal a game now, and we aren’t consistently winning 1-0.

Chances are that we’re going to need to take more risks on the ball in order to score more goals. Whether that is being braver on the ball, getting more bodies forward, asking the defenders to step out etc, but however we achieve it, we are likely to give away more chances too. 

Certainly going to be interesting to see how he tries to add goals to this team with the players at his disposal. 

Personally, as with NP, I’ll be content with a top half finish, happy with top 10, both of which would represent gradual progress.

Could do with getting Naismith on the pitch..

[Kibs]

2 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Could do with getting Naismith on the pitch..

Agree - would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me 

[Antman]

29 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

The disconnect is our midfield. Knight is brilliant at breaking up play but what do we do with it.

I know people will shoot me down but it's my opinion we need to improve and ultimately replace James. He's too slow and cumbersome, he always commits to his credit. He also tries long passes that don't often come off but atleast he's trying something. We need a ball carrier or a play maker of some kind. Same with Weimann. He's not a midfielder and seems to have lost that pressing edge he used to have. TGH needs more games because he atleast tries to make things happen. However, he's not the complete answer. We need a new CM addition in Jan as I can't see any in our squad injured or not that can progress us.

We defend well, look for options to progress find out there isn't any recycle the ball. We do this very slowly and allow the opposition to reset. Do this a couple of times. Get frustrated hit it long or try a Hollywood pass and lose possession. When we play quickly and burst down the wings on occasions and get a ball in the box we have limited success.

There has been alot of talk about Conway but he's feeding off scraps. I think if he had more opportunities presented to him he'd put them in the back of the net.

if you take james out of the equation IMO that will just leave us exposed defensively. his reading of the game is excellent, and his positional sense shows. we focus on Knight because of his brilliant energy and movement but don't underestimate what James brings to the side.

in time (if we keep him) Bachman Turner Overdrive could play a vital part of the midfield alongside Knight but at the moment he looks a little 'green' to my eyes.

We could absolutely do with a creative MF - but Scott was not of this world (or at least division) his overall tracking back aand tackling were unbelievable, add to that his forward passing and we were lucky to have him, before him we have had a fair few players (Palmer, Tomlin *shudder*) who could turn  it on, but more often were passengers (to the frustration of many on here) so that creative role is a tough one.

[Antman]

10 minutes ago, Kibs said:

Agree - would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me 

he can pass, but likes the long diagonal balls and that requires skill from the reciever. he is also prone to some clangers when he tries to take on players in front of him without sufficient cover behind him.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

33 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

I know people will shoot me down but it's my opinion we need to improve and ultimately replace James. He's too slow and cumbersome, he always commits to his credit.

The only problem is that however slow and cumbersome he is- we are a better team when he's in it- certainly this season at the least.

 

[Super]

The most worrying this is we're not creating anything. We have zero creativity in midfield since Scott left. I actually think far better strikers than Conway would struggle in this team.

[westonred]

I think we need two midfielders with some creativity who can score goals (Sammie Szmodics type) and a big mobile lump of a goal scoring striker who can hold the ball up and bring others in to play

[RedRoss]

1 minute ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

The only problem is that however slow and cumbersome he is- we are a better team when he's in it- certainly this season at the least.

 

But isn't that only because we have no better options? I agree I prefer him in a 3 over say Williams, Weimann, King or OTC. However I'd argue we're better only because the other options are so poor.

[Spike]

34 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

The disconnect is our midfield. Knight is brilliant at breaking up play but what do we do with it.

I know people will shoot me down but it's my opinion we need to improve and ultimately replace James. He's too slow and cumbersome, he always commits to his credit. He also tries long passes that don't often come off but atleast he's trying something. We need a ball carrier or a play maker of some kind. Same with Weimann. He's not a midfielder and seems to have lost that pressing edge he used to have. TGH needs more games because he atleast tries to make things happen. However, he's not the complete answer. We need a new CM addition in Jan as I can't see any in our squad injured or not that can progress us.

We defend well, look for options to progress find out there isn't any recycle the ball. We do this very slowly and allow the opposition to reset. Do this a couple of times. Get frustrated hit it long or try a Hollywood pass and lose possession. When we play quickly and burst down the wings on occasions and get a ball in the box we have limited success.

There has been alot of talk about Conway but he's feeding off scraps. I think if he had more opportunities presented to him he'd put them in the back of the net.

In a manner I agree, but I don't think replacing one player will change that and James does so much that is overlooked but becomes more obvious when he's missing. Our issue is we have midfielders who are all good in their own rights but none of capable of doing all the things we need at this level. The key thing missing that makes James an easier target is direct passes, none of our midfield play that type of pass, and I'm not talking about a high long ball towards an attacking player, I'm talking about good vision of playing passes directly into danger areas. The only player that does this really well in our whole squad is Naismith and his issue is that by playing him in midfield we lose that burst of energy. We could play a midfield comprised of TGH, Naismith and Knight meaning Knight would do a lot of that graft that Naismith struggles with but again, this would make us one dimensional when the opposition knows we only have one player capable of making those kinds of passes, as soon as Naismith gets on the ball you just cut out passing options and tight mark. What we need is a midfield 3 who are all capable of making direct, to feet, or running onto option low passes that cause the opposition trouble. We lack height so the long diagonal balls that we've played for a lot of the season are nullified easily and just give possession back to the opposition, we comprise our front three of pacey, direct players but have no midfielders who can play the passes that they feed off of. Replacing James with an all around midfielder who can make that kind of pass and adding Naismith to the midfield would certainly improve us but then if either are injured that puts us back to square one where the opposition can easily set up to prevent that style of play.

If we want to really push this system we need players in those 3 roles who are all willing and able to keep the ball on the ground and still make passes that put the opposition under pressure and give our attacking players something to work off of. We would also benefit massively by having a midfielder who looks to get just inside the edge of the box for low driven crosses and more than not when we play those passes into the box the strikers are closer to the 6 yard box and then rest of the area is empty so the ball just gets cleared. A midfielder who could get into that position would add a whole new level of danger to our attacks, especially when Sykes and mostly Bell, get into those areas where they cut the ball back with power across the box.

[The Original OTIB]

1 hour ago, pl00peh91 said:

with 16 goals conceded, second only to Leicester, who have conceded 10 goals.

This is ironically the area where we have suffered worst with long term injuries to McRorie and Atkinson, and also the injury to Vyner. So, hats off to Dickie, Vyner, Pring and Tanner as that is an excellent achievement.

However, outside of the bottom four teams we have scored the fewest in the league with 16.

This is a stark contrast with the 21/22 season where we conceded 77 and scored 62, and had to rely on high scoring 3-2 type wins to not get relegated.

The point is, Manning doesn’t actually have to change that much for us to be a real contender for the playoffs. We just need to figure out a system to get the most out of our attacking players. If we can maintain the same defensive foundation but see even a modest improvement in our goal output I see no reason why we shouldn’t make the playoffs this season, even if it is by consistently winning games 1-0.

Hopefully this will be the area of focus this international break, as I see no need to change anything about a defence which is clearly working.

An clear example of careful what you wish for. Any great team is built on a solid base and spine. We have much of the foundations. That is what's been happening these last few years. Hopefully the new Coach will find a way to link the elements rather than dismantle and rebuild them (for now). The latter would be utterly foolhardy with the personnel we have at present.

[The Original OTIB]

Just now, The Original OTIB said:

An clear example of careful what you wish for. Any great team is built on a solid base and spine. We have much of the foundations. That is what's been happening these last few years. Hopefully the new Coach will find a way to link the elements rather than dismantle and rebuild them (for now). The latter would be utterly foolhardy with the personnel we have at present.

He did talk of shape out of possession, and I did notice some of that, at least in the first 5 or 10 mins, on Saturday. Minor tweaks, therefore, for now.

[Tony Tootle]

32 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

I know people will shoot me down but it's my opinion we need to improve and ultimately replace James.

James is out of contract and I would imagine now Nige has gone won't be sticking around so will be getting replaced in the summer. Same for Williams. Our midfield is due for quite an overhaul.

[IAmNick]

32 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

The only problem is that however slow and cumbersome he is- we are a better team when he's in it- certainly this season at the least.

 

I think "slow and cumbersome" is a bit OTT. I definitely agree we're a better team with him in it.

He's the epitomy of a "The first 5 yards is in your head" player for me. The amount of interceptions and tackles he makes just by being in the right place at the right time is incredible.

I'd be loathed to drop him. I think he's great.

Edited November 14, 2023 by IAmNick

[Rudolf Hucker]

36 minutes ago, Antman said:

in time (if we keep him) Bachman Turner Overdrive could play a vital part of the midfield alongside Knight but at the moment he looks a little 'green' to my eyes.

So you’re saying we ain’t seen nothing yet?

[beaverface]

Without stating the obvious, isn't this football in a nutshell?

Coaches and managers are always trying to find that perfect balance between scoring enough goals, and keeping the goals out.

Generally, coaches say it's quite easy to set teams up to be really tight, but that's at the expense of not scoring enough, and conversely, you can also set your team up to be too gung ho, and attempt to out score the opposition.

Ultimately, teams get relegated when they can't do either of those things correctly.

[RedRoss]

17 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I think "slow and cumbersome" is a bit OTT. I definitely agree we're a better team with him in it.

He's the epitomy of a "The first 5 yards is in your head" player for me. The amount of interceptions and tackles he makes just by being in the right place at the right time is incredible.

I'd be loathed to drop him. I think he's great.

Alot of people say this or he's underrated because you just don't see the work that goes unnoticed. I personally don't agree just look at his stats.

I understand there is certain aspects of the game which will go unnoticed that are important that include off the ball movement, player positioning, communication ect

Communication I think Matty does well by the way. He's important for that reason right now because we lack that throughout the squad. However I just think we need to improve on him. Not just him. I personally think we need two CM's to provide competition but would settle on one. I don't want to make him the scapegoat because it's not his fault I just don't think he complements the rest of our players. I'd say the same about Weimann, King or whoever else we'd try. He's the best we have currently so that's why I'm highlighting him particularly.

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, pl00peh91 said:

with 16 goals conceded, second only to Leicester, who have conceded 10 goals.

This is ironically the area where we have suffered worst with long term injuries to McRorie and Atkinson, and also the injury to Vyner. So, hats off to Dickie, Vyner, Pring and Tanner as that is an excellent achievement 

Dickie is already a good early shout for player of the season. 

[The Original OTIB]

31 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I think "slow and cumbersome" is a bit OTT. I definitely agree we're a better team with him in it.

He's the epitomy of a "The first 5 yards is in your head" player for me. The amount of interceptions and tackles he makes just by being in the right place at the right time is incredible.

I'd be loathed to drop him. I think he's great.

Skuse, Pack, similar criticisms. Don't half miss them when they are out of a team though.

[wheretheheartis]

Defending starts from the front, it's not just the defence it's a team thing 

[Shauntaylor85]

1 hour ago, RedRoss said:

The disconnect is our midfield. Knight is brilliant at breaking up play but what do we do with it.

I know people will shoot me down but it's my opinion we need to improve and ultimately replace James. He's too slow and cumbersome, he always commits to his credit. He also tries long passes that don't often come off but atleast he's trying something. We need a ball carrier or a play maker of some kind. Same with Weimann. He's not a midfielder and seems to have lost that pressing edge he used to have. TGH needs more games because he atleast tries to make things happen. However, he's not the complete answer. We need a new CM addition in Jan as I can't see any in our squad injured or not that can progress us.

We defend well, look for options to progress find out there isn't any recycle the ball. We do this very slowly and allow the opposition to reset. Do this a couple of times. Get frustrated hit it long or try a Hollywood pass and lose possession. When we play quickly and burst down the wings on occasions and get a ball in the box we have limited success.

There has been alot of talk about Conway but he's feeding off scraps. I think if he had more opportunities presented to him he'd put them in the back of the net.

Midfield is always an issue at this club. When didn we ever have a player who scored 25 yard screamers? Josh maybe the last one to a degree. We must sign a creative midfield player, we are weak. 

[LondonBristolian]

I think a lot of it comes down to Manning deciding how he wants to play. I think James was essential to how we played under Pearson but he may or may not suit what Manning wants to do. The reality is that we're not creating enough at the moment and something has to change in our midfield but, like others in this post, I struggle to see which players within our current squad are going to change that. 

In that sense, I do get the logic of Manning giving Mehmeti a fresh start on Saturday. If we could get him performing, that could make a real difference. But I think Saturday showed that it is nowhere near as simple as he just wasn't being given the opportunities. 

[pl00peh91]

5 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Midfield is always an issue at this club. When didn we ever have a player who scored 25 yard screamers? Josh maybe the last one to a degree. We must sign a creative midfield player, we are weak. 

Makes me think of Marvin Elliott’s screamer against Stoke back in 2007/8, will never forget that goal 

[RedRoss]

3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think a lot of it comes down to Manning deciding how he wants to play. I think James was essential to how we played under Pearson but he may or may not suit what Manning wants to do. The reality is that we're not creating enough at the moment and something has to change in our midfield but, like others in this post, I struggle to see which players within our current squad are going to change that. 

In that sense, I do get the logic of Manning giving Mehmeti a fresh start on Saturday. If we could get him performing, that could make a real difference. But I think Saturday showed that it is nowhere near as simple as he just wasn't being given the opportunities. 

Re: Mehmeti

I would try him centrally in front of Knight and TGH. Maybe I'm clutching at straws because we don't have many options but that could work but could equally be a disaster.

[2015]

1 hour ago, Son of Fred said:

Could do with getting Naismith on the pitch..

I would love to know some stats chances created by City WITH Naismith in midfield compared to without Naismith in Midfield. 

I would be disappointed if LM cannot see the ability Naismith has 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Scott looking back was like 2 in 1, perhaps even 2-3 in 1.

He could pass and move,but carry too, win fouls in both halves helping to either break up play or build pressure, got the odd goal and some assists.

Not too bad defensively either as some on tbis thread mentioned!

In a parallel universe where Scott stays one year and Naismith stays fit from the start maybe James would be periodically dropped for a Naismith, Scott, Knight midfield.

Here and now, Naismith, James and Knight maybe which can give a combination of passing and security at the base therefore unleashing Knight properly higher up.

[IAmNick]

28 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

Alot of people say this or he's underrated because you just don't see the work that goes unnoticed. I personally don't agree just look at his stats.

I understand there is certain aspects of the game which will go unnoticed that are important that include off the ball movement, player positioning, communication ect

Communication I think Matty does well by the way. He's important for that reason right now because we lack that throughout the squad. However I just think we need to improve on him. Not just him. I personally think we need two CM's to provide competition but would settle on one. I don't want to make him the scapegoat because it's not his fault I just don't think he complements the rest of our players. I'd say the same about Weimann, King or whoever else we'd try. He's the best we have currently so that's why I'm highlighting him particularly.

I think if you look at the stats which are most aligned to what I see as his role in the team - screening the defence, acting as an easy outlet, and recycling possession, they look better. The stats above are quite forward focussed which I don't think is his role in the team at the moment. I don't expect many progressive carries, assists, or take ons from him (although obviously that's not excusing the fact his stats there are poor!):

(Last year above)

I think he's a quality player, and an important player for us. Will he be this time next year? I don't know, but I think he'd be quite tough to replace at the moment. I look more to some of the other players around him currently - although I would like to see him turn more when he does receive the ball.

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by IAmNick

[LondonBristolian]

10 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

Re: Mehmeti

I would try him centrally in front of Knight and TGH. Maybe I'm clutching at straws because we don't have many options but that could work but could equally be a disaster.

I think my feeling with Mehmeti is it's worth persevering with him in the team a little longer simply because I feel he's the player Manning needs to make a quick decision on. I'd give him more opportunities until January to show enough to demonstrate he can be a creative force in the division and, if he cannot do that, see if we can free up enough of wage (and maybe fee) to get a more effective creative option into the team.

I'd not give up in him yet but I do feel he needs to very quickly show some evidence that it's worth us keeping him around.

Edited November 14, 2023 by LondonBristolian