FBC POD - Norwich [H] the verdict ..... we have to accept that we are a work in progress

[headhunter]

Whilst it was dull for long periods in the opening 45 at least we went in with a deserved lead but, for me, the 2nd half was a horror show from beginning to end on so many levels.

Liam Manning is learning how to manage at a higher level at our expense. I really wish he had a number 2 alongside him someone like, er, Nigel Pearson which has some logic but was never going to happen once the owners decided they didn't like him on a personal level.

This is a link to a live at 7.00 PM podcast [*] recording hosted by DaveP who'll try to take the positives from the game in discussion with Ian Gay, Mark Tovey & Neil Sutton. No sugar coating from us and at the same time picking up the sentiment from the post-match chatter on OTIB & X

[*] available on Spotify etc from c9.00PM / Live on You Tube & X

 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, headhunter said:

who'll try to take the positives from the game

It’s perfectly fine to give both sides if it’s merited.

[harvey54]

We don't have to accept anything.  

I don't accept that Manning is a better manager than Pearson. 

I don’t accept that we have a better chance of promotion under an untried, inexperienced lower division manager than under a manager who has got a team promoted to the Premier league.

I don't accept that players will buy into Mannings style of play.

I don't accept that the Lansdowns know how to run a football club.

I don't and WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY OF THIS UNTIL STEVE LANSDOWN SELLS OUR CLUB

 

[REDOXO]

Ok I’m hooked. @headhunterDo the boys monitor this thread while doing the cast? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

There is an element of truth to Work in Progress but Manning was brought in to continue and accelerate that progression.

Early signs..not ideal.

[Engvall’s Splinter]

Be interesting today if the FBC boys call today’s showing (2nd half) for what it was. Listened to the first couple and it’s clear there was an anti- Pearson agenda. You has been incredibly pro Manning to suit the agenda, I’ll be listening intently as it unfolds. I absolutely hope FBC are right and the change becomes a positive one. As you say though, we are being used as he learns on the job at championship level. 

[harvey54]

I think that any new coach/manager would experience a significant negative reaction given how popular NP had become. We'd turned a corner. We'd reduced the wage bill and we were still in a position where we could challenge for the play offs. What was the logical reasoning behind sacking the manager? It had to be personal. Nige was old school. Lansdown wanted 'forward thinking'. It wasn't about top 6 or playing styles. Nige didn't kiss ass.

Tinnion sold his soul and spoke up for the owners. Fans no longer trust him.

Manning appears to be LJ2. Fans don't want this. 

Until the Lansdowns admit failure and sell the fans will never believe again.

[REDOXO]

Whoever mentioned the pathetic limp footed dangle is spot on!

We played a different defensive formation in and out of possession. We switched between 2/3/4/5 in possession and blocks of 4/4/2 out of possession 

Pearson had to get rid of players and change the culture with very little financial support. He turned a kid into a superstar, he turned Semenyo into a goalscorer turned Vyner back into a footballer and blooded 17/18/19/20 year olds into our first team. He made the club loads of money that is now going to go to someone else, because he had the temerity to be his own man.
 

The thought he would be fired while we were building a team and specifically not given money is absurd. Manning is changing a culture already we now give soft goals away for fun costing points while Vyner, Bell, ConwAy among others look crap. 
 

yep culture change it is!

Edited December 3, 2023 by REDOXO

[headhunter]

14 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Whoever mentioned the pathetic limp footed dangle is spot on!

We played a different defensive formation in and out of possession. We switched between 2/3/4/5 in possession and blocks of 4/4/2 out of possession 

Pearson had to get rid of players and change the culture with very little financial support. He turned a kid into a superstar, he turned Semenyo into a goalscorer turned Vyner back into a footballer and blooded 17/18/19/20 year olds into our first team. He made the club loads of money that is now going to go to someone else, because he had the temerity to be his own man.
 

The thought he would be fired while we were building a team and specifically not given money is absurd. Manning is changing a culture already we now give soft goals away for fun costing points while Vyner, Bell, ConwAy among others look crap. 
 

yep culture change it is!

That, in a part sentence, is why he is no longer here.

We were never massively pro-Pearson on FBC but he deserved greater respect than that shown by the Lansdown's who were let down by poor advice IMHO by the club's communication / PR resource. Much better look to be upfront and say his contract would not be extended but [naturally] would be honoured and allow him to leave and make a full recovery from his back issues.

[Galley is our king]

14 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Whoever mentioned the pathetic limp footed dangle is spot on!

We played a different defensive formation in and out of possession. We switched between 2/3/4/5 in possession and blocks of 4/4/2 out of possession 

Pearson had to get rid of players and change the culture with very little financial support. He turned a kid into a superstar, he turned Semenyo into a goalscorer turned Vyner back into a footballer and blooded 17/18/19/20 year olds into our first team. He made the club loads of money that is now going to go to someone else, because he had the temerity to be his own man.
 

The thought he would be fired while we were building a team and specifically not given money is absurd. Manning is changing a culture already we now give soft goals away for fun costing points while Vyner, Bell, ConwAy among others look crap. 
 

yep culture change it is!

I don't like this post....

I LOVE this post...

Sums everything up really well  thank you...

JL and BT have an awful lot to answer for.

[2015]

Not sure why we are suddenly a 'work in progress'.

We were a 'work in progress' under NP but you never cut him any slack even when he took over the side with the absolute garbage he inherited from Dean Holden.

[Charlie BCFC]

15 hours ago, harvey54 said:

We don't have to accept anything.  

I don't accept that Manning is a better manager than Pearson. 

I don’t accept that we have a better chance of promotion under an untried, inexperienced lower division manager than under a manager who has got a team promoted to the Premier league.

I don't accept that players will buy into Mannings style of play.

I don't accept that the Lansdowns know how to run a football club.

I don't and WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY OF THIS UNTIL STEVE LANSDOWN SELLS OUR CLUB

 

Early days I don’t blame you for thinking most of this.

But the thing around players not buying into his style of play is rubbish, they already have and you can see the difference. You’re just sulking over Pearson still and not accepting that Manning needs the same patience as we have Pearson as a fanbase 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Early days I don’t blame you for thinking most of this.

But the thing around players not buying into his style of play is rubbish, they already have and you can see the difference. You’re just sulking over Pearson still and not accepting that Manning needs the same patience as we have Pearson as a fanbase 

This is complete revisionism tbh. Where we were when Pearson took over and where we were when Manning took over are completely incomparable.  That’s not ‘sulking over Pearson’ it’s just how it is.  

[W-S-M Seagull]

19 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Not sure why we are suddenly a 'work in progress'.

We were a 'work in progress' under NP but you never cut him any slack even when he took over the side with the absolute garbage he inherited from Dean Holden.

My understanding was Manning was the guy to take us to the 'next level' and that he was brought in to enhance upon what we were under Pearson. 

The likes of Ian nailed their colours to the mast when we appointed Manning. Full of excitement for his appointment etc. 

So therefore the give it time, work in progress bs is simply Ian saving face. 

[luke_bristol]

16 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Early days I don’t blame you for thinking most of this.

But the thing around players not buying into his style of play is rubbish, they already have and you can see the difference. You’re just sulking over Pearson still and not accepting that Manning needs the same patience as we have Pearson as a fanbase 

We don’t need to show any patience, the board said the squad is top 6.

[Sheltons Army]

30 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Early days I don’t blame you for thinking most of this.

But the thing around players not buying into his style of play is rubbish, they already have and you can see the difference. You’re just sulking over Pearson still and not accepting that Manning needs the same patience as we have Pearson as a fanbase 

And your (over) and , very early , bigging up of Manning , in every thread , comes across as completely desperate , and rather strange

There are clearly some , who Manning will , because of the extensive anger at JL / BT , need to convince and turn

 

But the desperation in some to highlight anything they see different and better in Manning is really really strange

Spookily , most of them were the most vociferous anti Pearson posters - it is almost as if they are desperate to be proved right.....almost panicky 

Time will show and reveal what any positives or negatives are

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[Charlie BCFC]

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

And your (over) and , very early , bigging up of Manning , in every thread , comes across as completely desperate , and rather strange

There are clearly some , who Manning will , because of the extensive anger at JL / BT , need to convince and turn

 

But the desperation in some to highlight anything they see different and better in Manning is really really strange

Spookily , most of them were the most vociferous anti Pearson posters - it is almost as if they are desperate to be proved right.....almost panicky 

Time will show and reveal what any positives or negatives are

 

 

 

I was very pro Pearson and still think his sacking was harsh, but the reality is that decision has been and gone and we have to move on. I was happy with the Manning appointment and whilst we should’ve got atleast a point yesterday, I’ve seen positive changes in every game we’ve played under Manning (I’ve been to all 4) that I think will put us in good stead. Yes there’s clear areas to improve but give him a chance to do that

[Charlie BCFC]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

This is complete revisionism tbh. Where we were when Pearson took over and where we were when Manning took over are completely incomparable.  That’s not ‘sulking over Pearson’ it’s just how it is.  

You’re right that we’re in a better position now but we gave Pearson a chance throughout the 20/21 season (rightly so) even when that period is one of the worst periods I’ve seen since supporting City. Why doesn’t Manning deserve patience when he’s had 4 games and is trying to change an entire style of play?

[NcnsBcfc]

16 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Whoever mentioned the pathetic limp footed dangle is spot on!

We played a different defensive formation in and out of possession. We switched between 2/3/4/5 in possession and blocks of 4/4/2 out of possession 

Pearson had to get rid of players and change the culture with very little financial support. He turned a kid into a superstar, he turned Semenyo into a goalscorer turned Vyner back into a footballer and blooded 17/18/19/20 year olds into our first team. He made the club loads of money that is now going to go to someone else, because he had the temerity to be his own man.
 

The thought he would be fired while we were building a team and specifically not given money is absurd. Manning is changing a culture already we now give soft goals away for fun costing points while Vyner, Bell, ConwAy among others look crap. 
 

yep culture change it is!

Yep that was me @REDOXO

What I can't stand is limp defending.

Hence my rant around Vyner on the 2nd goal. Either you win the ball or you take your man out. What you don't do is passively let the ball bounce, then through poor body shape and lack of physicality allow you man to get away from you.

Both Tanner and Vyner have through either poor defending or lack of application given away 4 goals in our last 2 home games. 

Mark and Ian may disagree on their first goal "See it in the prem each week". But that doesn't make it right, does it? I was still angry on the podcast. Tanner isn't good enough, that's why NP bought McCrorie, unfortunately things haven't worked out so far.

I would love to see Tanner's stats re passing the ball backwards @Davefevs. There were periods in the second half where our players stopped passing the ball to him in open positions, as I'm I'm sure they knew that they would just be given it straight back.

He was the worst culprit (although not the only one) in a negative approach to our attacking play yesterday. The worst moment for me though is  when we won a thrown in on the edge of their box and Weimann threw it back to Vyner on the half way line "AAAGGHHH"

[GrahamC]

Just now, Charlie BCFC said:

You’re right that we’re in a better position now but we gave Pearson a chance throughout the 20/21 season (rightly so) even when that period is one of the worst periods I’ve seen since supporting City. Why doesn’t Manning deserve patience when he’s had 4 games and is trying to change an entire style of play?

How long have you been watching us?

Under SOD we were in the bottom four of League One, under Holden we lost 6 consecutive games (we lost the 7th after he was sacked) culminating in a defeat at Watford (6-0) that was truly embarrassing.

I’ll assume you were too young for Pulis as no one can seriously not think that was a nadir.

You are spot on about giving Manning time (though I think I might have to take a book to read whilst we pass it square for 10 minutes) but no way was anything under Pearson as bad as those I have highlighted.

[NcnsBcfc]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

How long have you been watching us?

Under SOD we were in the bottom four of League One, under Holden we lost 6 consecutive games (we lost the 7th after he was sacked) culminating in a defeat at Watford (6-0) that was truly embarrassing.

I’ll assume you were too young for Pulis as no one can seriously not think that was a nadir.

You are spot on about giving Manning time (though I think I might have to take a book to read whilst we pass it square for 10 minutes) but no way was anything under Pearson as bad as those I have highlighted.

Even under GJ, the man who got us as close as anyone back to the Prem, we had an awful period of losses until the "Hand grenade" moment.

@GrahamC sorry I was over in the Lower Lansdown rather than in front of you yesterday. All the good stuff we do offensively falls down by the lack of intent or passiveness when we don't have it. Leading to long periods of as you say "boredom".

It just reminded me Swansea under Martin yesterday. Without us having a Piroe or Nitcham to actually score some goals. You literally bore the opposition into letting you score. After their equaliser, they just say back and were happy with a draw. They couldn't believe when they scored at the end.

[Charlie BCFC]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

How long have you been watching us?

Under SOD we were in the bottom four of League One, under Holden we lost 6 consecutive games (we lost the 7th after he was sacked) culminating in a defeat at Watford (6-0) that was truly embarrassing.

I’ll assume you were too young for Pulis as no one can seriously not think that was a nadir.

You are spot on about giving Manning time (though I think I might have to take a book to read whilst we pass it square for 10 minutes) but no way was anything under Pearson as bad as those I have highlighted.

Read my post again, I didn’t say it was THE worst but it was one of the worst periods, I don’t think we’ll see a worse era than the SOD era! 
 

That 20/21 second half of the season was horrendous on the pitch, Watford and Reading games are up there with two of the worst performances I’ve ever seen from a City team

[Sheltons Army]

9 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

How long have you been watching us?

Under SOD we were in the bottom four of League One, under Holden we lost 6 consecutive games (we lost the 7th after he was sacked) culminating in a defeat at Watford (6-0) that was truly embarrassing.

I’ll assume you were too young for Pulis as no one can seriously not think that was a nadir.

You are spot on about giving Manning time (though I think I might have to take a book to read whilst we pass it square for 10 minutes) but no way was anything under Pearson as bad as those I have highlighted.

And with the wrong appointment at that time , and I’d suggest the vast majority

’one of The worst periods watching City’ it certainly would have been , performances , results ....with the bonus of a slide into League One

Pearson walked into the the absolute mess that screamed of a slide to League One
 

CONTEXT

 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[Sir Geoff]

10 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Yep that was me @REDOXO

What I can't stand is limp defending.

Hence my rant around Vyner on the 2nd goal. Either you win the ball or you take your man out. What you don't do is passively let the ball bounce, then through poor body shape and lack of physicality allow you man to get away from you.

Both Tanner and Vyner have through either poor defending or lack of application given away 4 goals in our last 2 home games. 

Mark and Ian may disagree on their first goal "See it in the prem each week". But that doesn't make it right, does it? I was still angry on the podcast. Tanner isn't good enough, that's why NP bought McCrorie, unfortunately things haven't worked out so far.

I would love to see Tanner's stats re passing the ball backwards @Davefevs. There were periods in the second half where our players stopped passing the ball to him in open positions, as I'm I'm sure they knew that they would just be given it straight back.

He was the worst culprit (although not the only one) in a negative approach to our attacking play yesterday. The worst moment for me though is  when we won a thrown in on the edge of their box and Weimann threw it back to Vyner on the half way line "AAAGGHHH"

Glad you mentioned Vyners two lunges in front of the Dolman. In the first he was clear favourite and should have taken both man and ball. The second he had no chance with and allowed the Norwich player to just skip past him. Two terrible decisions.

[lenred]

14 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

You’re right that we’re in a better position now but we gave Pearson a chance throughout the 20/21 season (rightly so) even when that period is one of the worst periods I’ve seen since supporting City. Why doesn’t Manning deserve patience when he’s had 4 games and is trying to change an entire style of play?

But there were a myriad of reasons why it was so poor at times.  And NP and his team and RG worked their proverbials off to get us where we are now.  Just be honest about the respective positions.  That’s all I’m suggesting.   

[NcnsBcfc]

2 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Glad you mentioned Vyners two lunges in front of the Dolman. In the first he was clear favourite and should have taken both man and ball. The second he had no chance with and allowed the Norwich player to just skip past him. Two terrible decisions.

Absolutely @Sir Geoff

And the complete switching off that allowed a straight ball over the top to Barnes, who looked a shadow of his former self.

Vyner yesterday demonstrated the attributes that had us all with our heads in our hands 2 years ago. I was so angry after the game, @headhunter was still having to calm me down during the podcast....

[Silvio Dante]

5 minutes ago, lenred said:

But there were a myriad of reasons why it was so poor at times.  And NP and his team and RG worked their proverbials off to get us where we are now.  Just be honest about the respective positions.  That’s all I’m suggesting.   

And I think that’s the thing here. We know that Liams trying to impose a new style, and we also know the board were lying, but he didn’t inherit a mess. He inherited a group of well motivated players in striking distance of the playoffs. That he should be afforded 3-4 windows to get “his” team in is nonsense, it was supposed to be evolution not revolution. If it’s the latter, by default he was the wrong appointment.

There is sympathy for Liam and what he’s walked into - but ultimately he chose to take the job and should have done his homework. That sympathy will be lessened each time by both perceived negative football, but more pertinently by statements about the culture such as yesterday which undermine what we were told he was here to do - which was to push on.

If he wanted a “work in progress”, he didn’t read the job description. He needs to improve performances or results and on a small sample size he’s doing neither as yet.

[GrahamC]

31 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Even under GJ, the man who got us as close as anyone back to the Prem, we had an awful period of losses until the "Hand grenade" moment.

@GrahamC sorry I was over in the Lower Lansdown rather than in front of you yesterday. All the good stuff we do offensively falls down by the lack of intent or passiveness when we don't have it. Leading to long periods of as you say "boredom".

It just reminded me Swansea under Martin yesterday. Without us having a Piroe or Nitcham to actually score some goals. You literally bore the opposition into letting you score. After their equaliser, they just say back and were happy with a draw. They couldn't believe when they scored at the end.

Yep, I keep looking at Cifuentes, now that’s someone who has had to implement an even bigger shift in style & in 5 games he’s already managed it..

No worries, I just don’t think this style is for me, & how anyone can seriously can call it “front foot” is beyond me.

Edited December 4, 2023 by GrahamC

[NcnsBcfc]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Yep, I keep looking at Cifuentes, now that’s someone who has had to implement an even bigger shift in style & in 5 games he’s already managed it..

No worries, I just don’t think this style is for me, & how anyone can seriously can it “front foot” is beyond me.

I know you used to love watching Swansea.... 

For all their possession, they never really seemed to get anywhere with it. I think Martin's reputation is somewhat of a false narrative.

[Slippin cider]

I think we’ve been a ‘work in progress’ for years . Shame there’s been neither …