Coaches speak

[Jerseybean]

I was struck by this from LM post match: 

‘We had words at half-time, to be fair, which the lads know, it's not reinforcing anything they don't already know. 

"I wasn't too happy, to be honest, but we have to smash the nicety out of it and the perception the way the game is at now, the way for me around not being nice is having that edge, whether it be moving the ball a bit quicker so they can't get near you, whether it be the quality of the cross, the timing of your run. It's about daily work and having that edge to us, we have to have that in the culture, we have to work at it, and develop that ruthless side to us.’

Do coaches do a course on how to speak this way? 

[chinapig]

6 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

I was struck by this from LM post match: 

‘We had words at half-time, to be fair, which the lads know, it's not reinforcing anything they don't already know. 

"I wasn't too happy, to be honest, but we have to smash the nicety out of it and the perception the way the game is at now, the way for me around not being nice is having that edge, whether it be moving the ball a bit quicker so they can't get near you, whether it be the quality of the cross, the timing of your run. It's about daily work and having that edge to us, we have to have that in the culture, we have to work at it, and develop that ruthless side to us.’

Do coaches do a course on how to speak this way? 

I took some time to parse that first sentence with its double negative and I think it means he was reinforcing what they already know!

I don't have a problem with jargon as most jobs have that but I do have a problem with lack of clarity.

But let's face it most football managers aren't very articulate public communicators so I'll ignore the word salad in the hope that he communicates more clearly with the players.

[Cowshed]

23 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

I was struck by this from LM post match: 

‘We had words at half-time, to be fair, which the lads know, it's not reinforcing anything they don't already know. 

"I wasn't too happy, to be honest, but we have to smash the nicety out of it and the perception the way the game is at now, the way for me around not being nice is having that edge, whether it be moving the ball a bit quicker so they can't get near you, whether it be the quality of the cross, the timing of your run. It's about daily work and having that edge to us, we have to have that in the culture, we have to work at it, and develop that ruthless side to us.’

Do coaches do a course on how to speak this way? 

To a degree the answer is yes. As part of coaching badges there are modules on communication, learning styles, leadership approaches, the constant forming of shared culture for the team, and coaching thus has its coach speak vernacular. 

A consistent in coaching is emphasis on collective behaviours, team mindset the us and we's above are typical. 

[Ivorguy]

Sorry but I much preferred Nige’s plain speaking.

[bcfc01]

3 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Sorry but I much preferred Nige’s plain speaking.

I preferred Cotterills.

Mind you, Benny is up there as well.

Edited December 10, 2023 by bcfc01

[spudski]

3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

To a degree the answer is yes. As part of coaching badges there are modules on communication, learning styles, leadership approaches, the constant forming of shared culture for the team, and coaching thus has its coach speak vernacular. 

A consistent in coaching is emphasis on collective behaviours, team mindset the us and we's above are typical. 

'Behaviors'...I bloody loath that coaching terminology. Manning uses it a lot. 

He definitely uses a lot of coaching terminology that is the equivalent to corporate talk. 

It's fine when talking to players, but it would be better if when talking to the public, via the media, that he spoke in layman's terms. 

It's easy to understand, however, when things aren't going well, it can be used against you. 

The FA should communicate better with coaches when it comes to talking to the public. 

LJ, Ashton all got Pelters for it. 

Manning should be aware imo. 

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

but we have to smash the nicety out of it and the perception the way the game is at now

 

This is the sort of English up with which I will not put....

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

The FA should communicate better with coaches when it comes to talking to the public. 

LJ, Ashton all got Pelters for it. 

Manning should be aware imo. 

LM has been coaching for 18 years, I very much doubt he's going to change any time soon, he's immersed and obsessed by it.

But give him a few more years as a head honcho and he may well change.

[Sleepy1968]

Maybe all he needs is to use two thumbs. Down - Level - Up. And that shows how he thought we did in each half.

He could still do the interview as long as they cut to a medium shot where he could show this simplified summing up.

[1960maaan]

41 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

This is the sort of English up with which I will not put....

 

[bcfc01]

7 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

 

Is that @Red-Robbo ?

[Lanterne Rouge]

18 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Is that @Red-Robbo ?

Probably. They`m all a bit strange out there on the levels.

[1960maaan]

19 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Is that @Red-Robbo ?

This is not the Red-Robbo you were looking for 

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

'Behaviors'...I bloody loath that coaching terminology. Manning uses it a lot. 

He definitely uses a lot of coaching terminology that is the equivalent to corporate talk. 

It's fine when talking to players, but it would be better if when talking to the public, via the media, that he spoke in layman's terms. 

It's easy to understand, however, when things aren't going well, it can be used against you. 

The FA should communicate better with coaches when it comes to talking to the public. 

LJ, Ashton all got Pelters for it. 

Manning should be aware imo. 

I like the term behaviours, because everything is a behaviour. People make choices to behave in manners that make success more likely, or not, or worse. Another I like is solutions not excuses. Solution based thinking, growth mindset, challenge states, non negotiables etc are behaviours, so is get your ******* head up Son and crack on. 

Part of the EUFA badges includes a section on dealing with the media. The style of communication between Manager/coach and fans is down to each individual Manager/coach and their club not the FA.  

I contacted BCFC once about sharing information with fans about playing identity, training methods and how these were applied throughout the club to the XI .. I got the impression the club really didn't get many (any) enquiries about that type of thing.

[spudski]

38 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I like the term behaviours, because everything is a behaviour. People make choices to behave in manners that make success more likely, or not, or worse. Another I like is solutions not excuses. Solution based thinking, growth mindset, challenge states, non negotiables etc are behaviours, so is get your ******* head up Son and crack on. 

Part of the EUFA badges includes a section on dealing with the media. The style of communication between Manager/coach and fans is down to each individual Manager/coach and their club not the FA.  

I contacted BCFC once about sharing information with fans about playing identity, training methods and how these were applied throughout the club to the XI .. I got the impression the club really didn't get many (any) enquiries about that type of thing.

I'm not suggesting it was down to the FA. 

I was suggesting that maybe part of the FA/ EUFA guidance should imo, make coaches aware that ' Coach talk' to the public isn't always a good thing and to judge reaction of the fans. 

That's common sense. 

[Cityboy1954]

7 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Sorry but I much preferred Nige’s plain speaking.

Listened to him on sound of the city Nige was slow in making his point but liam drove me to sleep sounded like the dwarf.

[CityReds]

4 hours ago, Cowshed said:

I contacted BCFC once about sharing information with fans about playing identity, training methods and how these were applied throughout the club to the XI .. I got the impression the club really didn't get many (any) enquiries about that type of thing.

Fine line between sharing information and trade secrets but I have found I need more info in some of the things in LMs interviews. Lots of talk about ‘In Block’ but that won’t resonate with a large proportion of the fan base

[TedsHeadIs Red]

I bet LJ wishes he had been first to come up with ‘smash the nicety out of it’
Priceless. 

[Sir Geoff]

19 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

I was struck by this from LM post match: 

‘We had words at half-time, to be fair, which the lads know, it's not reinforcing anything they don't already know. 

"I wasn't too happy, to be honest, but we have to smash the nicety out of it and the perception the way the game is at now, the way for me around not being nice is having that edge, whether it be moving the ball a bit quicker so they can't get near you, whether it be the quality of the cross, the timing of your run. It's about daily work and having that edge to us, we have to have that in the culture, we have to work at it, and develop that ruthless side to us.’

Do coaches do a course on how to speak this way? 

Either fell on deaf ears or confused the **** out of them.

[The Bard]

Jargon in any walk of life is not good. It's basically lazy and indicative of a lack of wider intelligence. 

[ExiledAjax]

46 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Jargon in any walk of life is not good. It's basically lazy and indicative of a lack of wider intelligence. 

Only when you use it with the wrong audience.

If you know you are addressing people who understand the jargon then it is efficient communication. 

Where is the jargon in this statement though?

[Robbored]

21 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

I was struck by this from LM post match: 

‘We had words at half-time, to be fair, which the lads know, it's not reinforcing anything they don't already know. 

"I wasn't too happy, to be honest, but we have to smash the nicety out of it and the perception the way the game is at now, the way for me around not being nice is having that edge, whether it be moving the ball a bit quicker so they can't get near you, whether it be the quality of the cross, the timing of your run. It's about daily work and having that edge to us, we have to have that in the culture, we have to work at it, and develop that ruthless side to us.’

Do coaches do a course on how to speak this way? 

 Much of that is referring to the basics like moving the ball more quickly and being more aggressive and ruthless. Nige used to say pretty much the same thing but in simpler terms.

Lots of managers say the same type of thing in a less articulate fashion.

[A Horse With No Name]

14 hours ago, Cowshed said:

I like the term behaviours, because everything is a behaviour. People make choices to behave in manners that make success more likely, or not, or worse. Another I like is solutions not excuses. Solution based thinking, growth mindset, challenge states, non negotiables etc are behaviours, so is get your ******* head up Son and crack on. 

Part of the EUFA badges includes a section on dealing with the media. The style of communication between Manager/coach and fans is down to each individual Manager/coach and their club not the FA.  

I contacted BCFC once about sharing information with fans about playing identity, training methods and how these were applied throughout the club to the XI .. I got the impression the club really didn't get many (any) enquiries about that type of thing.

If ever I am looking for a tradesman to do some work for me, and I see the word 'solutions' in their company name or advert, I scroll straight on past. 

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

If ever I am looking for a tradesman to do some work for me, and I see the word 'solutions' in their company name or advert, I scroll straight on past. 

That’s why I closed my business down.  I did include “Red” for Bristol City in it though.

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, The Bard said:

Jargon in any walk of life is not good. It's basically lazy and indicative of a lack of wider intelligence. 

 

You have to have been in the Army to have appreciated how true this is. There're some guys who are much more fluent in jargon than English in it. 

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

You have to have been in the Army to have appreciated how true this is. There're some guys who are much more fluent in jargon than English in it. 

It was the same in parts of my career - there was a certain ‘speak’ used in addiction counselling.

i became fluent in it!

[BigTone]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It was the same in parts of my career - there was a certain ‘speak’ used in addiction counselling.

i became fluent in it!

Sure you don't mean effluent ?

[sh1t_ref_again]

18 hours ago, spudski said:

'Behaviors'...I bloody loath that coaching terminology. Manning uses it a lot. 

He definitely uses a lot of coaching terminology that is the equivalent to corporate talk. 

It's fine when talking to players, but it would be better if when talking to the public, via the media, that he spoke in layman's terms. 

It's easy to understand, however, when things aren't going well, it can be used against you. 

The FA should communicate better with coaches when it comes to talking to the public. 

LJ, Ashton all got Pelters for it. 

Manning should be aware imo. 

So in other words, he can't win, as some will find fault and moan what ever he does

[spudski]

21 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

So in other words, he can't win, as some will find fault and moan what ever he does

No...not really. 

However...when things aren't going well, this type of thing is used against you. 

[Cowshed]

11 hours ago, CityReds said:

Fine line between sharing information and trade secrets but I have found I need more info in some of the things in LMs interviews. Lots of talk about ‘In Block’ but that won’t resonate with a large proportion of the fan base

I do not think coaching terminology is a trade secret. Its ubiquitous to great numbers of coaches and players.

I would expect the word block, or shape, or screen to resonate with most coached players post 13 as the theme there is so very widely used. Words like block are trigger words to relay information quickly and spark efficiently physical movement.

I do agree with your point about wanting, or needing to know more. Coach speak can become impenetrable .. I frequently didn't understand what Lee Johnson was talking about as he had a degree of the unique versus speech that was widely used in football levels. Its an area I think that would come down to the skills of the interviewer to discern if further explanation is beneficial, or widely interesting for fans 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Cowshed