Tins - What have you done...

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The reason I don't buy this reasoning is because he has now been in the football industry for nearly 30 years. There's no excuse for not being able to make competent decisions for the football club by now. It may have been an excuse in 2003, but not in 2023.

Sound management principles from the broader business sector could/should have been applied during Lansdown's tenure.

I cannot imagine Hargreaves conducting himself in the same manner as his partner, which makes me firmly believe that Lansdown benefitted from the relationship more than Mr H.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Tell me more….

 

(are you now humming Grease?)

I didn't get very far 

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Tell me more….

 

(are you now humming Grease?)

 

6 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

I didn't get very far 

One things for sure, our play is far from “Greased Lightning” at the moment….

[Bazooka Joe]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Who is he bringing in this time?

Given his propensity to do the most stupid thing every time. it'll be Joseph Barton Esq.

[Silvio Dante]

24 minutes ago, Old Rascal said:

This is a good point, but worries me even more about what is going on behind the scenes! Is it likely the board hide a lot of the issues from potential new employees? I seem to remember NP with all his experience saying he didn't realise how bad things were here after his arrival.

To be fair, I think most companies do in all walks of life. To admit things aren’t right is to admit weakness and a lot of people don’t like to do that. You can appoint people on the basis to sort things out, but I think a far more common scenario is that employees join companies without a full handle on the inner workings.

Again, working on the assumption LM did the due dilligence I don’t think that would have uncovered the depth of feeling. You’re then left with really two scenarios from Jon and Brian’s part:

- They didn’t understand the depth of feeling and are absolute boneheads (Tecknikally)

- They did understand the depth of feeling but thought LM would get some quick results to bail them out, not realising LM would impose a new style on the team immediately which made that less likely (In which case they didn’t do their research and again, have the collective brain power of a team of Joey Barton’s)

 

[Bazooka Joe]

49 minutes ago, alexukhc said:

Who’s model we following now?

Let me hazard a guess.

The Gwyn Down model?

[Old Rascal]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Just checked and every club in the Championship has a CEO apart from:

Norwich Board & Executive - Norwich City (canaries.co.uk) - but they have an actual proper board and sporting director.

Stoke Stoke City FC - Directory - they also have an actual proper board and sporting director.

Sheff Weds - Can't find any details, COO Liam Dooley left in October, but run by a madman.

Rotherham United - only have a COO and no DoF. An anomaly.

 

So basically us and bottom-of-the-table Rotherham are the division's outliers in terms of internal structure. Brilliant.

I used to work with the Head of Football Operations at Rotherham. A really decent guy and good people manager. Everyone that knows him was surprised at the move, as he has spent nearly all his career in the justice and custodial sector! Still trying to work out how running a prison with over 1100 inmates equates to this new role. He is passionate about football, but is a Hull City supporter..........

[Red Exile]

1 hour ago, noize said:

I believe the only way to get City into the Prem would be to bring in a well known, experienced manager with a decent backroom team that could attract decent players, with some investment

Well said - and exactly what I believed were were doing when we appointed Pearson, Rennie, Fleming, Euell

Pity the Lansdowns threw all that away for what's - on paper - a League One set up.

[Old Rascal]

30 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

To be fair, I think most companies do in all walks of life. To admit things aren’t right is to admit weakness and a lot of people don’t like to do that. You can appoint people on the basis to sort things out, but I think a far more common scenario is that employees join companies without a full handle on the inner workings.

Again, working on the assumption LM did the due dilligence I don’t think that would have uncovered the depth of feeling. You’re then left with really two scenarios from Jon and Brian’s part:

- They didn’t understand the depth of feeling and are absolute boneheads (Tecknikally)

- They did understand the depth of feeling but thought LM would get some quick results to bail them out, not realising LM would impose a new style on the team immediately which made that less likely (In which case they didn’t do their research and again, have the collective brain power of a team of Joey Barton’s)

 

Thanks, I agree with you, no company(club) would completely open themselves to potential employees. But did wonder what sort of due diligence would be done by LM? Apologies, not expecting you to know! The football world seems quite small for the professionals in the game. I don't think he would have given NP a call and ask about the club, but a bit of a check on the city website would have uncovered NP's feelings about what was happening in the weeks before he was sacked, delving back a bit further would have shown his thoughts when he took over here and an hour on social media would have given the fans perception and feelings. Perhaps it's all down to individual egos?

Your last part sums it up for me.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

What is ironic is that right now LM could do with a wise old head to support him and help him through this s******m 

Don’t let me have to have to go back to my LJ needing a Lenny Lawrence type posts of a few years back!

Seriously, that old head support is designed to be provided by Brian Tinnion.  It shouldn’t need another body, that’s part of Tins’s role.

3 hours ago, alexukhc said:

Who’s model we following now?

2 hours ago, 2015 said:

Luton. 

Keep up - Ipswich Town.

I’m not putting 2 and 2 together, but Manning is with Refuel Performance Management.

Who are they?

Run by Scott Barron (ex-Ipswich player) who was at Ipswich with Manning, and Richard Lee (ex-Watford keeper / Dr Cap Dragons Den fame), who of course was a recruitment consultant for us under Ashton.

[Jacki]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I posted before how I felt that he had done magnificently to rebuild his career here after his failed management career. Not many get the chance to do that. 

With the academy stuff, you can't fault him. Fantastic job. Even when he took on a role that was similar to head of recruitment, again brilliant job. 

That was his ceiling. He had a job for life doing that. But he got greedy, he got power hungry. Probably some sort of hangover from being a failed manager. He is not a technical director. It's one promotion too many. 

If this goes badly, the Lansdowns won't take the fall for it. They will allow him to take the blame for it and he'll be gone. 

I think this is spot on. Tinnion is very good with the academy from what I’ve heard. I understand he can be pretty ruthless, which is hard as a parent especially if your lad has been released, but his knowledge of the players and the way he is with them is generally very positive. If you asked him (for example) who the left backs are in the U13s and what their strengths and weaknesses are, he would know. He knows all the boys by name and chats to them around the place and makes them feel part of it. He seems to be very good at that part of his job.

As I’ve said in another thread though, that’s not the main part of his gig anymore. He has to oversee the playing philosophy of the whole club, hire and fire managers and support them while they’re here, manage the recruitment team… it’s impossible (imo) for anyone to do all that and be as involved he still is in the academy. And there is no evidence that he is in any way cut out to have the ‘keys to the kingdom’ to the extent that he has.

The last few months have seen everyone with experience of running a successful Championship club get sacked or leave the club one way or another. We’re now back in a situation where people who don’t know the level and how to succeed within it are all powerful at the club. It’s really hard to see it ending well. 

[Capman]

I said when Pearson left that the culture of the club appears to be rotten to the core.
Decisions seem to be made based on saying and doing what ‘the establishment’ want to be true and what they need to happen, rather than being open and honest.
To be fair to Tinnion (and Manning) that really makes them victims as well. They will be dispensed with when that outcome suits the club establishment whose only objective is to protect themselves. It is probably a dreadful place to work, but when people have bills to pay, they get sucked into that culture and put up with it.

For me that means success on the pitch is very unlikely. It’s a bit like the infinite monkey theory, if we go through every manager and every model we might eventually be lucky. But that might take a thousand years. A far better solution would be for the board to go and put in place a new board who understand how to really run a football club. 
Unfortunately until that happens I do not see things getting better on the pitch. In fact I suspect they will get worse. 

[Fuber]

8 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

With regard to the "steady stream" of academy players ready for the first team remember, he only became academy in October 2021. Before that it was Gary Probert who was nicked by Swiss.

He was academy loans manager before that....

What do you mean our academy progression was only due to an appointment not by Lansdown(s)? Say it aint so!

(Appointed under Keith Dawe to Development Phase Coach, and promoted to Academy manager in 2016).

Thats surely an exception and all of SLs appointments have been stunning successes in his own periods of holding chairmanship(s) of the club.

(Silence)

....

...Right?

...
Right?... Guys?

Edited December 14, 2023 by Fuber

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Don’t let me have to have to go back to my LJ needing a Lenny Lawrence type posts of a few years back!

Seriously, that old head support is designed to be provided by Brian Tinnion.  It shouldn’t need another body, that’s part of Tins’s role.

Keep up - Ipswich Town.

I’m not putting 2 and 2 together, but Manning is with Refuel Performance Management.

Who are they?

Run by Scott Barron (ex-Ipswich player) who was at Ipswich with Manning, and Richard Lee (ex-Watford keeper / Dr Cap Dragons Den fame), who of course was a recruitment consultant for us under Ashton.

I ****ing hope not.

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

6 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh and if you go up to the Prem it's a similar story.

Prem clubs do tend to go the head coach rather than manager route...but they'll almost always have a CEO given the size of their businesses.

I don't like it, whatever reasoning the club might give. I don't think investors/buyers will like it either...although they may take the attitude that they can change it once they're in.

It's a mess, it's not aligned to the rest of the industry, it's not different enough to be truly innovative either, and it's just indicative of the "we know best and we're doing it anyway" attitude.

Yes,  It's my club and I will do what I like.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Fuber said:

I ****ing hope not.

[Sir Geoff]

5 hours ago, alexukhc said:

Who’s model we following now?

Blackburn ? Weren't they 8th or something in the Premier League when they decided Allardyce had to go.

[KingHillRed]

6 hours ago, alexukhc said:

Who’s model we following now?

Starting to hope it's one with a big pair of t**s up top - oh, hang on 

[Shauntaylor85]

10 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The owner's fault for allowing it to happen. 

Don’t ever learn do they. Repeat the same mistakes over 20 years, how many times do we have to be the cushty club for ex players, players who clearly had no ambition to further their careers at a higher level it seems. 

[Shauntaylor85]

Mark Ashton is loved by Ipswich fans, I know many of them and they think he’s been brilliant. Left to get on with it apparently and very much allows the HC to make the decision. Shows again the control in BS3. We’ve just made the LJ mistake again, a mistake which took Nige 2.5 years to clear up and get us on the road again, it’s incredible how poor our decision making is time after time. 

[REDOXO]

17 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Mark Ashton is loved by Ipswich fans, I know many of them and they think he’s been brilliant. Left to get on with it apparently and very much allows the HC to make the decision. Shows again the control in BS3. We’ve just made the LJ mistake again, a mistake which took Nige 2.5 years to clear up and get us on the road again, it’s incredible how poor our decision making is time after time. 

It’s worse than poor! I would like to rise to the level of poor. 
 

It’s inept. If this was a publicly owned company the lot of them would be gone. But hey ho I still have my fifty. I wonder how many regret taking Lansdowns offer to buy their shares a few years ago?

[reddoh]

9 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Just checked and every club in the Championship has a CEO apart from:

Norwich Board & Executive - Norwich City (canaries.co.uk) - but they have an actual proper board and sporting director.

Stoke Stoke City FC - Directory - they also have an actual proper board and sporting director.

Sheff Weds - Can't find any details, COO Liam Dooley left in October, but run by a madman.

Rotherham United - only have a COO and no DoF. An anomaly.

 

So basically us and bottom-of-the-table Rotherham are the division's outliers in terms of internal structure. Brilliant.

Alvin stardust?

[exAtyeoMax]

 

[REDOXO]

22 minutes ago, reddoh said:

Alvin stardust?

Shane Fenton?

How ******* old are we??

[reddoh]

1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

Shane Fenton?

How ******* old are we??

I am very young  ,but I just like you

[Silvio Dante]

26 minutes ago, reddoh said:

Alvin stardust?

 

4 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Shane Fenton?

How ******* old are we??

Hey Jon and Brian

You must be out of your tiny minds!

[REDOXO]

Careful. I’m a Moody Guy!

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

 

Hey Jon and Brian

You must be out of your tiny minds!

 

 

[REDOXO]

6 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

 

 

This is the first time I haven’t felt completely powerless and despondent since NP was behind the wheel! However we can all Pretend 

Edited December 14, 2023 by REDOXO

[Shauntaylor85]

12 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I posted before how I felt that he had done magnificently to rebuild his career here after his failed management career. Not many get the chance to do that. 

With the academy stuff, you can't fault him. Fantastic job. Even when he took on a role that was similar to head of recruitment, again brilliant job. 

That was his ceiling. He had a job for life doing that. But he got greedy, he got power hungry. Probably some sort of hangover from being a failed manager. He is not a technical director. It's one promotion too many. 

If this goes badly, the Lansdowns won't take the fall for it. They will allow him to take the blame for it and he'll be gone. 

The academy thing is a myth! Talks it up the most.