It’s poaching season - Stoke appoint Schumacher

[BCFCGav]

1 hour ago, hollydog said:

More seasons in top flight (62) than any of Leeds, Boro or Norwich including 10 consecutive in premier league with cup final appearance and European campaigns during same period. Also founder members of the Football League and Auto Windscreen Shield Winners 2002. 

Sod European football, the EFL Trophy win clinches it the mighty reds have three!

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

Perhaps Delilah is his favourite song. 

[Andy082005]

2 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Wouldn’t be at all surprised if Plymouth had interest in Nigel Pearson 

I would

I Think people really over egg how well Pearson did here. He did an ok job - I don’t think he will manage again , let alone in the Championship 

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

You asked why they are seen as bigger.  I think it’s pretty obvious they are bigger than us.  They have the Premier League pedigree and more money.  They will be back there before we get there.  

I know this has become a stock thing to say (I’ve seen others claim that Plymouth & Wrexham will get there before us) but in the last 5 seasons we have finished above Stoke more often than they have finished above us & they have never even been in the top half, despite having parachute payments for 3 years of that, so I genuinely have no idea what you are basing this on.

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I know this has become a stock thing to say (I’ve seen others claim that Plymouth & Wrexham will get there before us) but in the last 5 seasons we have finished above Stoke more often than they have finished above us & they have never even been in the top half, despite having parachute payments for 3 years of that, so I genuinely have no idea what you are basing this on.

Possibly by the wider football world though?

A lot of the wider football world seem to think Steve Cooper is a top manager e.g. for some reason as well as being fairly lukewarm on NP.

The fawning over the former today has been quite something, a load of crap really..including by one of our own fans. Ani Harish or something.

[FNQ]

Plymouth…now that really would be a job for Cotts.

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, The Nest Egg said:

Going to have to be pedantic and say it was the Auto Windscreens Shield 2000!

I only know that because I have our shirt from it...

Me too, the ref and the cheating bar stewards who took the free kick as we were preparing will always make me remember that the footballing world spits on our club. 

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

I would

I Think people really over egg how well Pearson did here. He did an ok job - I don’t think he will manage again , let alone in the Championship 

He did an amazing job of turning this underachieving oil tanker of a club around , culture wise, all with no little success on the pitch considering the constraints of reducing wages and the sale of his best players.

We will never know if he could have taken us higher as we all know what wicked Uncle Steve did but most suspect that we would be in touching distance of the playoffs if he had been supported by him and not undermined. 
 

[And Its Smith]

8 hours ago, GrahamC said:

I know this has become a stock thing to say (I’ve seen others claim that Plymouth & Wrexham will get there before us) but in the last 5 seasons we have finished above Stoke more often than they have finished above us & they have never even been in the top half, despite having parachute payments for 3 years of that, so I genuinely have no idea what you are basing this on.

We’ve also finished above Ipswich for many seasons. 

[GrahamC]

15 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

We’ve also finished above Ipswich for many seasons. 

We did.

Stoke have had parachute payments, a succession of managers who have done well elsewhere yet totally failed with them & a huge wage bill.

They have still consistently ****** up, I know some on here are desperate to say every other club will overtake us, in Ipswich’s case that looks highly likely, there are no grounds (beyond the Pulis era, fast disappearing into the distance) to suggest that Stoke will.

[Kid in the Riot]

8 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

I would

I Think people really over egg how well Pearson did here. He did an ok job - I don’t think he will manage again , let alone in the Championship 

He certainly won't be back managing for a while as he isn't well enough to do so, a point that some in our fanbase still seem in denial about. 

Euell will likely return to the game the fastest, but the other three, who knows?

[W-S-M Seagull]

11 hours ago, Bris Red said:

Schumacer is somebody i wish we went for to be honest. Can see him being be a good appointment for Stoke.

As for Plymouth fans unfortunately he was always going to go as soon as a bigger club came calling IMO. No disrespect to them but they are punching above their weight being at this level.

I think that is slightly disrespectful. They've earned their right to be at this level and they pull in 16k each week which I believe isn't too dissimilar to what we got pre redevelopment.

[GrahamC]

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

He certainly won't be back managing for a while as he isn't well enough to do so, a point that some in our fanbase still seem in denial about. 

Euell will likely return to the game the fastest, but the other three, who knows?

Rennie is a completely different case isn’t he?

His skills are transferable outside of football (indeed sport) so he could pick up work now if he wanted.

My understanding is Curtis’ family home is in the North East (& he also has a property in Italy), he has a sound reputation as an assistant so doubt he would be waiting too long for offers.

Nige as you say is concentrating on returning to health, I don’t think any of us know exactly how he is right now but if I was a betting man on balance I do think he’ll manage again.

[Swede]

As a head coach he probably won't have the same autonomy as he had at Plymouth so straightaway that is a big hurdle to overcome.

The differences between us and Stoke is that the hierarchy at Stoke know how to achieve success and have done so whereas ours don't. The 2008 season  showed everybody the difference between the clubs.

[Markthehorn]

The last manager they poached from Plymouth won them promotion.

Obviously hoping for the same impact - somehow !

[Bazooka Joe]

11 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Define 'rat' & 'snake'

Slightly off topic, but how about Mark is a rat, Ashton is a snake.

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

We did.

Stoke have had parachute payments, a succession of managers who have done well elsewhere yet totally failed with them & a huge wage bill.

They have still consistently ****** up, I know some on here are desperate to say every other club will overtake us, in Ipswich’s case that looks highly likely, there are no grounds (beyond the Pulis era, fast disappearing into the distance) to suggest that Stoke will.

Time will tell I guess.  Hopefully you are correct.  

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Nige as you say is concentrating on returning to health, I don’t think any of us know exactly how he is right now but if I was a betting man on balance I do think he’ll manage again.

He’s down in Devon at the mo’ with his family.

I hope his recent tests achieved what he hoped.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

We did.

Stoke have had parachute payments, a succession of managers who have done well elsewhere yet totally failed with them & a huge wage bill.

They have still consistently ****** up, I know some on here are desperate to say every other club will overtake us, in Ipswich’s case that looks highly likely, there are no grounds (beyond the Pulis era, fast disappearing into the distance) to suggest that Stoke will.

They also needed to a) 'Sell' the stadium and training ground for a combined £80-85m- the old sale and leaseback in 2021 just before the rules changed (profit £32m, averaged at £16m), b) The Covid argument transfer wise nonsense.

They actually have some similar issues to us in what I've been reading, the son of the long standing owner Peter Coates is deemed not to be very good. John Coates, Peter was perhaps their driving force but is mid 80s, how hands on Idk.

Some of their fans think they would absolutely be better off and able to harness non Parachute revenue position if Denise Coates head of Bet365 ran them..far more dynamic or similar.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He’s down in Devon at the mo’ with his family.

I hope his recent tests achieved what he hoped.

Doh, he’s tweeted this morning.  You all knew anyway!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Talking of Stoke. One of the best financially run clubs in the League apparently.

Odd take.

[Baba Yaga]

35 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Talking of Stoke. One of the best financially run clubs in the League apparently.

Odd take.

Looks like their real advantage compared to the rest of the division is the sponsorship money that bet365 give them, its a good business model/financial situation from a competitive view point but will be interesting to see by how much this advantage could shrink when the ban on gambling advertising comes in force. It would be a lot harder for them to get away being a poorly run club if they didn't have an extra 5-10mn (very rough guess) a year to play with.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

Looks like their real advantage compared to the rest of the division is the sponsorship money that bet365 give them, its a good business model/financial situation from a competitive view point but will be interesting to see by how much this advantage could shrink when the ban on gambling advertising comes in force. It would be a lot harder for them to get away being a poorly run club if they didn't have an extra 5-10mn (very rough guess) a year to play with.

It certainly would bite.

I've looked at their 2021-22 accounts, even with those arrangements they are £30m or so all-in turnover wise.

Given Bet365 are a Related Party I would suggest it is one for the League to look at.

Otoh we could bolster our revenue via naming rights. Stadium, HPC, individual stands etc 

[italian dave]

16 hours ago, redkev said:

There’s moving back up north then there’s moving to Stoke two very different things 

 Very true…….although I guess the perspective from Plymouth might be slightly different!

It always amuses me when we drive to somewhere like Sunderland or Middlesbrough, and you get to Leeds and see signs to “The North”! 

[Kid in the Riot]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Rennie is a completely different case isn’t he?

His skills are transferable outside of football (indeed sport) so he could pick up work now if he wanted.

My understanding is Curtis’ family home is in the North East (& he also has a property in Italy), he has a sound reputation as an assistant so doubt he would be waiting too long for offers.

Nige as you say is concentrating on returning to health, I don’t think any of us know exactly how he is right now but if I was a betting man on balance I do think he’ll manage again.

Yes, re: Rennie, hence I said return to "the game". I'm sure he's already involved with some consultancy work. 

I think Nige will certainly want to return to management but his health, and the rising trend of appointing "ipad coaches", means his options may well be very limited.

[NcnsBcfc]

16 hours ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said:

Leighton Baines the early favourite for the Plymouth job. Bit left field that

Plymouth's DOF Neil Dewnship is an ex- Everton (Barton had a go at him for releasing him as a kid).

Through him as a club they've maintained good relations with Everton and Baines is currently their U18 coach.

 

[Baba Yaga]

41 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It certainly would bite.

I've looked at their 2021-22 accounts, even with those arrangements they are £30m or so all-in turnover wise.

Given Bet365 are a Related Party I would suggest it is one for the League to look at.

Otoh we could bolster our revenue via naming rights. Stadium, HPC, individual stands etc 

Comparing them to other non parachute clubs that season 21/22. Forest averaged 6k more than them throughout the season and got to Wembley play off final and revenue was still 1.5mn less than Stoke. Boro just missed out on the play offs but got to Old Trafford in the cup, then in next rounds had home ties against Spurs and Chelsea and Stoke still had more than 4mn revenue than them finishing 14th and no big cup ties. It will be interesting to see 22/23 comparisons but at that time it seems like Bet365 were hugely altering the competitiveness of them, personally I don't have a problem with that but a little surprised they can get away with it.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Baba Yaga

[NcnsBcfc]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

We did.

Stoke have had parachute payments, a succession of managers who have done well elsewhere yet totally failed with them & a huge wage bill.

They have still consistently ****** up, I know some on here are desperate to say every other club will overtake us, in Ipswich’s case that looks highly likely, there are no grounds (beyond the Pulis era, fast disappearing into the distance) to suggest that Stoke will.

Plymouth ST at work has said that Stoke quadrupled Schumacher's salary, as well of that of all the other coaches and backroom staff that have left with him.

They certainly much be big payers of managers as they convinced Jones to leave Luton, Neil to leave Sunderland and O'Neill to go from Northern Ireland job (where he were over achieving by the look of it).

Has their covid clawbacks finally been accepted by the EFL @Mr Popodopolous? They seem to think that they were impacted to a far far greater degree than any other EFL club .

[Lrrr]

The industry rarely shows loyalty to people in it so it’s unsurprising when the people in it choose to advance themselves when opportunities arise. Look at people like Bonner at Cambridge who turned down jobs, all it takes is a change in fortunes and poor form for a while for you to be sacked. Higher salary, closer to Liverpool again so not surprising Schumacher has taken the chance. 

[hollydog]

15 hours ago, The Nest Egg said:

Going to have to be pedantic and say it was the Auto Windscreens Shield 2000!

I only know that because I have our shirt from it...

Pedantry is a quality imo. (At least when it comes to football)