The Lansdowns - What Do People Actually Want

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

FFS..! 

You could make the Tottenham stadium better - but I think it's pretty fit for purpose...!

Who said it wasn’t? If you are going to butt in at least understand the convo I was having…….FFS

[AppyDAZE]

1 hour ago, Offside said:

I have always felt supportive of the Lansdowns. But my faith in the regime has been shaken by two things:

1 - How Mark Ashton and LJ were seemingly allowed to spend many flagrantly, leading to a bloated squad and financial constraints that had us in a real mess. 
 

2. The sacking of NP….or at least the narrative that went with it. Top 6 squad? Do they really believe that?
 

What do I want to happen? I really don’t know. Part of me thinks fresh impetus is needed. Part of me worries about what new owners would be like. But the balance has certainly tipped to the former. 

Excellent post.

[sh1t_ref_again]

11 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Isn't that the point.?

We have genuine fans, ploughing tens/hundreds of millions into our club.

Where do you think we'd be without them, seriously..?!.

It's not as if (surprisingly) that we've heard reports of numerous takeover bids being turned down.

I'd 

Little to no match day revenue around the ground - yet always the expectation to succeed. 

We lose £20million plus per year now, yet it's not been a concern for us (as supporters) because the Lansdowns pay it all off.

 

Great Post, but just quoted part

I can understand disappointment with not getting to prem, I understand frustration with decisions, but comments are mainly done with hindsight and always without knowing all the facts and reasons behind them.

What annoys me is the foul derogatory abuse made towards the Lansdowns by some on here as never hear it elsewhere. Some of these posters are the same who moan about the price of ticket and will not buy refreshments at the ground.

They are happy to slag off SL, but ignore the season tickets would need to be 3 times the price they are if not for SL putting his hand in his pocket and covering the cost of being a mid championship team

[RollsRoyce]

2 hours ago, maxjak said:

Despite  all the negative views, it is often the devil you know that is the best option?   For all their perceived faults, they have been extremely generous, and have protected the club financially, and built a superb range of facilities....just look at the difference in AG compared to 10 years ago?   Who knows what new owners might do or in which direction they may teke us?   For all their faults in appointing managers and lack of fan communication, I want the Lansdowns, through Steve, and then through John to remain in charge....they are Bristolians, and i believe their hearts are in the right place.    It maybe a cliche.......but in my life i have found that the grass is not always greener on the other side?   Who say's it WILL be an exciting new era...........you?

Look at almost any club that sits higher in the football period and compare them  to 20 years ago. I simply cannot comprehend an attitude of we have never had it better. There are 50 plus clubs who have played in the Premier league, we are not one of them. It might be 52 or 53 now with Luton. Our ground ranks at mid 30's in terms of largest capacity in the pyramid. Which strangely aligns with our average league position over history. Our training ground is much improved, but have people visited the other facilities, no not at the super teams, but Leicester or Southampton for example? 

So if the grass is not always greener, it would take some pretty impressive incompetence to not be one of those 52/53teams that have played in the Prem after spending so much money. Why do people take the worst case scenario, instead of thinking we might just have had an owner that had a clear footballing strategy and carried it out with professional and competent people. 

Or, let's look at it another way, does anyone think that another multi-billionaire would place in charge of a project to reach the Prem, Manning, Tinnion, Jon L and Gavin Kelly ? (And that after 20 years of "experience". )

Exactly. 

[Shelton’s Love Gravy]

Crayons.

I rest my case.

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Yes, back the man they hired. It’s that simple now.

Exactly and I don’t mean by spending like we did with LJ either. Don’t mind selling but reinvest portions back into the playing squad with more signings like Knight, Sykes, Dickie etc. Back him but don’t repeat that mistake basically. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Isn't that the point.?

We have genuine fans, ploughing tens/hundreds of millions into our club.

Where do you think we'd be without them, seriously..?!.

It's not as if (surprisingly) that we've heard reports of numerous takeover bids being turned down.

I'd go so far as to say that, bearing in mind our overheads to match ambitions) we'd be in a worse place than Rovers are now.

We had a decent sized, but we'll outdated ground. Little to no commercial or non match day revenue. 

Little to no match day revenue around the ground - yet always the expectation to succeed. 

We lose £20million plus per year now, yet it's not been a concern for us (as supporters) because the Lansdowns pay it all off.

I think some people's entitled expectations lead them to believe we deserve better - nobody deserves better.

Yes, we could have done better - but anyone who holds no gratitude for what that family have done for us amazes me. 

Without them we'd be lucky to still be in existence, let alone a struggling 3rd/4th tier club with a shithold of a decent sized ground & still training at the a local field somewhere.

Agreed, we've not got there, but we've never been closer to being ready for the Prem now & that is entirely thanks to them (even though some think it's because of them.!)

We all know they make mistakes & we could/should have achieved more - but imagine, just for moment, if they hadn't ever been here - we'd probably be landing our token support to FGR..!

22 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Great Post, but just quoted part

I can understand disappointment with not getting to prem, I understand frustration with decisions, but comments are mainly done with hindsight and always without knowing all the facts and reasons behind them.

What annoys me is the foul derogatory abuse made towards the Lansdowns by some on here as never hear it elsewhere. Some of these posters are the same who moan about the price of ticket and will not buy refreshments at the ground.

They are happy to slag off SL, but ignore the season tickets would need to be 3 times the price they are if not for SL putting his hand in his pocket and covering the cost of being a mid championship team

So, you’re both happy that a £36.5m revenue business costs £65.3m to run, yet gets nowhere near being able to recoup some of that by getting to the Premier League?

Well, bugger me if you think that’s me being ENTITLED!!!

I’m not even close to being an “entitled fan”.  It’s been a concern of mine since 2016-17, and it bit us on the effing arse big-time in recent years.

I’m delighted we ONLY lost £22m last season including a £9m transfer, stopping that being £30m. (That’s sarcasm btw!)

What planet am I on?  Give myself a slap in the face for being so entitled.

Pardon me for thinking that there might be a different way / a better way of doing this without feeling that we should be indebted to Steve Lansdown.

(Rant not aimed at you both, just the general lack of understanding why some of us feel as passionately as we do about the ownership / situation).

Edited December 24, 2023 by Davefevs

[bpexile]

For what it's worth, IMO the financial support has been excellent and saved City embarrassment on several occasions, but I do wish they would take the back seat & leave it to the experts e.g., Gould, Alexander, Nige etc, etc. For the first time I can remember in my 65+yrs as a supporter we were on the right track, then possibly their faults were pointed out to them and the reaction was to sack someone who had got us through something which would have been beyond many.

I now feel their time is up as new responsible ownership that know something about the game is required . 

Edited December 24, 2023 by bpexile

[sh1t_ref_again]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, you’re both happy that a £36.5m revenue business costs £65.3m to run, yet gets nowhere near being able to recoup some of that by getting to the Premier League?

Well, bugger me if you think that’s me being ENTITLED!!!

I’m not even close to being an “entitled fan”.  It’s been a concern of mine since 2016-17, and it bit us on the effing arse big-time in recent years.

I’m delighted we ONLY lost £22m last season including a £9m transfer, stopping that being £30m. (That’s sarcasm btw!)

What planet am I on?  Give myself a slap in the face for being so entitled.

Pardon me for thinking that there might be a different way / a better way of doing this without feeling that we should be indebted to Steve Lansdown.

(Rant not aimed at you both, just the general lack of understanding why some of us feel as passionately as we do about the ownership / situation).

Weather its £20 or £40, SL is underwriting it, it was said on the other thread what about Preston or Millwall well they both lost £19m

The fact is a mid champ team loses a lot of money, that SL puts his hands in his pockets and covers, in other words supplements all of us to go and watch city, and should at least have a bit of gratitude for it. 

Of course can do better, maybe new owners would do better, and I am not against that, but don't believe he deserves the rubbish some on here come out with

[RedRock]

Love the Bristol Sport model, the Stadium, Training Ground, community work and the fact we have genuine supporters in charge of the Club. 

On the field, as once written on a Gillingham flag, ‘ these things take time’. …a bloody long time in our case, but progress from a yo-yo Champ/League One Club to an established Championship club is not entirely to be sniffed at. 

Yes, the Lansdown’s have made mistakes, and I think they’ve admitted it, but who hasn’t made mistakes? 

Time to get behind the Club ownership and stop sniping in my view  … who wants £zillionaire foreign owners and be like The Gas, profiteers like the Glaziers, or perhaps follow the Chelsea model of chucking £100’s million on random pretty useless players chasing the dream.  
 

For us, got to be the promised land next year, possibly the one after or, perhaps, though the one after that….
 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, mason said:

All 4 could still go if enough pound notes are waved, why do we keep selling if we dont bring in any better.

Wells made a difference when he came on but cant see him being here much longer, we need a exp striker and midfield general, as well as what we have already, wont be cheap and others will want the same; As mentioned Luton are holding there own in the prem, we should be matching them but need a chairman to buy exp rather than bricks and mortar and safe bets.

Hoping we keep all 4 and build a bit. Prudently but not lacking in ambition if that makes sense.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Weather its £20 or £40, SL is underwriting it, it was said on the other thread what about Preston or Millwall well they both lost £19m

The fact is a mid champ team loses a lot of money, that SL puts his hands in his pockets and covers, in other words supplements all of us to go and watch city, and should at least have a bit of gratitude for it. 

Of course can do better, maybe new owners would do better, and I am not against that, but don't believe he deserves the rubbish some on here come out with

Look at how much they lost historically, not one season, a season we lost even more.

He doesn’t deserve abuse.  But he deserves the critique the likes of me and other fans give him, and we don’t need “be careful what you wish for” responses.  We fully understand the situation.  I didn’t wish for £200m losses in the P&L.  Have Millwall and Preston got that?

[fisherrich]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, you’re both happy that a £36.5m revenue business costs £65.3m to run, yet gets nowhere near being able to recoup some of that by getting to the Premier League?

Well, bugger me if you think that’s me being ENTITLED!!!

I’m not even close to being an “entitled fan”.  It’s been a concern of mine since 2016-17, and it bit us on the effing arse big-time in recent years.

I’m delighted we ONLY lost £22m last season including a £9m transfer, stopping that being £30m. (That’s sarcasm btw!)

What planet am I on?  Give myself a slap in the face for being so entitled.

Pardon me for thinking that there might be a different way / a better way of doing this without feeling that we should be indebted to Steve Lansdown.

(Rant not aimed at you both, just the general lack of understanding why some of us feel as passionately as we do about the ownership / situation).

A shameful performance by the Board and the Lansdowns. PLC structured businesses would have had them out years ago. Some on here just don’t see it.

[Sheltons Army]

For all of the talk about the training ground , oooops sorry the ‘HPC’ ()

Whats sort of sums Lansdown up for me is that when the Training Ground was near completion he did an interview , and stated , as he has done previously that,  he asked Danny Wilson what he would do with a £Million if he gave him it

Danny Wilson said ‘Training Ground’

All full of himself with his new project , SL overlooked the fact that, having asked the question he’d failed to follow the advice for 20 years or so .....

Edited December 24, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[IAmNick]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Great Post, but just quoted part

I can understand disappointment with not getting to prem, I understand frustration with decisions, but comments are mainly done with hindsight and always without knowing all the facts and reasons behind them.

What annoys me is the foul derogatory abuse made towards the Lansdowns by some on here as never hear it elsewhere. Some of these posters are the same who moan about the price of ticket and will not buy refreshments at the ground.

They are happy to slag off SL, but ignore the season tickets would need to be 3 times the price they are if not for SL putting his hand in his pocket and covering the cost of being a mid championship team

I sort of understand where you're coming from, but I think you're rather naive if you don't believe they charge the absolute maximum they can to maximise their revenue.

They're not charging the current prices out of the goodness of their hearts (and pockets). They're doing it because they've calculated that's the exact price which will make them the most money.

Edited December 24, 2023 by IAmNick

[sh1t_ref_again]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Look at how much they lost historically, not one season, a season we lost even more.

He doesn’t deserve abuse.  But he deserves the critique the likes of me and other fans give him, and we don’t need “be careful what you wish for” responses.  We fully understand the situation.  I didn’t wish for £200m losses in the P&L.  Have Millwall and Preston got that?

But all the dept is owed to SL, some of it is due to the decisions that have turned out not to have worked some down to mistakes that have been made, some infrastructure and some due to the losses, as championship football is loss making. If SL eventually sells, he will only get what someone is prepared to pay, and will have to take on the chin the balance. If the price is too high, he will not be able to sell and hopefully continue to underwrite the cost of championship football.

I have no problem with criticism and much of it I can agree with, but a lot is just with hindsight and without the full picture 

The abuse is pathetic and often says more about the childish nature of those making comments thinking they are being clever.

Ps I did not say be carefull what you wish for, we all know that any change is a risk.

[ashton_fan]

2 hours ago, Countryfile said:

The guys who saved us from going out of business really put themselves in the spotlight.

I believe one of them remortgaged his only home to put money into the club.

If you offered SL the chance to walk away at break even he’d snatch your hand off.

Anyone seriously believe it hasn’t been a ego thing?
 

Who would appoint their son to be the figurehead of a company who had zero experience, unless you were egotistical? 

Why does it matter if it's an "ego thing" or not? You're judging him as a person rather than a football club owner. How many top business people don't have an ego, I've  certainly never met any. All that matters is he's helping the football club move forward on and off the pitch

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

I sort of understand where you're coming from, but I think you're rather naive if you don't believe they charge the absolute maximum they can to maximise their revenue.

They're not charging the current prices out of the goodness of their hearts (and pockets). They're doing it because they've calculated that's the exact price which will make them the most money.

If you on about ticket prices?, the point I was trying to make, is we only pay about a third of what it costs to have a championship team to watch

Agree they charge the maximum they can get away with

[Tomo]

Happy Christmas All.

The Lansdowns have got everything sorted off the pitch, but not on the pitch...

Kenilworth Road....

 

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Ps I did not say be carefull what you wish for, we all know that any change is a risk.

No, you didn’t, but too many do….its a lazy defence imho.

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

If you on about ticket prices?, the point I was trying to make, is we only pay about a third of what it costs to have a championship team to watch

Agree they charge the maximum they can get away with

The sweet spot, the pinch point etc.

Just as much as they can get away with, most money for the least grief. Like most businesses.

[IAmNick]

17 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

If you on about ticket prices?, the point I was trying to make, is we only pay about a third of what it costs to have a championship team to watch

Agree they charge the maximum they can get away with

I agree - but that's also not exactly a secret. If you're going to buy a football club you have to also accept the terms that come with it, which is covering their losses presumably with the hopes you one day win big.

I'm grateful the Lansdown family do it of course, but it's not a plus or minus point in my mind in the grand scheme of things - perhaps that's harsh though. We'll only really know the answer when (if) they sell up, and we discover what they want to claim back out of the sale, or the club I suppose. Then we'll know how much was covered, and how much was simply loaned.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Our Debt was listed as £92m or something, not checked in full depth.

The equity can be included in the asking price but it doesn't have to be- for every £1 converted to equity that is £1 less that we ourselves owe.

[Ivorguy]

I feel they have backed themselves into a cul de sac with Bristol Sport 

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, RollsRoyce said:

Look at almost any club that sits higher in the football period and compare them  to 20 years ago. I simply cannot comprehend an attitude of we have never had it better. There are 50 plus clubs who have played in the Premier league, we are not one of them. It might be 52 or 53 now with Luton. Our ground ranks at mid 30's in terms of largest capacity in the pyramid. Which strangely aligns with our average league position over history. Our training ground is much improved, but have people visited the other facilities, no not at the super teams, but Leicester or Southampton for example? 

So if the grass is not always greener, it would take some pretty impressive incompetence to not be one of those 52/53teams that have played in the Prem after spending so much money. Why do people take the worst case scenario, instead of thinking we might just have had an owner that had a clear footballing strategy and carried it out with professional and competent people. 

Or, let's look at it another way, does anyone think that another multi-billionaire would place in charge of a project to reach the Prem, Manning, Tinnion, Jon L and Gavin Kelly ? (And that after 20 years of "experience". )

Exactly. 

Who said........::we have never had it better?"   certainly not me?   But i am a realist, who understands that even a businessman who enjoys massive success in his chosen field of finance, does not have the divine right to be successful in an area that he has no experience,background or insight in?   SL was a fan who wanted   his chosen team to be a mirror of his successful business.  But his ego has prevented him from taking advice and council from football experts, who could have provided him with direction and guidance over the 20 years that he has failed to realise his dream?

 He has failed to bring success to Bristol City because he has not had the unpretentious and humble attitude to take on board expert advice by football people who could have offered him the instruction he so desperately was in need of?   But he has kept trying, and i believe he might at last have found the right appointment? 

Criticising and demeaning the Lansdowns is everyones right, but as they are not going anywhere soon, it is pointless.   I am happy to stick with them in the hope that if you keep throwing enough mud at a wall....eventually some will stick?  Personally I see a bright future, maybe i am a misguided fool........but as i have been supporting them for over 40 years i feel i have the right to be one?      

Edited December 24, 2023 by maxjak

[RedM]

6 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

SL worst creation was Bristol Sport. To much going on. 

You got to ask, if it's such a great idea why don't other clubs do the same?

[Mr Popodopolous]

It could yet if the Sporting Quarter gets full approvals improve our income in the fullness of time..but that is both speculative and down the line.

Certain items in the Sporting Quarter would be attributable to Bristol City Holdings thereby improving our revenue.

[CardiffRed]

6 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

So, it's quite clear that the fanbase is divided over the owners of this football club. Personally, I can't quite grasp what the issue is, so I'm hoping this discussion might shed some light on it. In my view, and it might sound straightforward, but when SL took charge, we were struggling in League One. Ashton Gate needed attention.  We were merely surviving.

Steve started attending Bristol City games at the request of his then young son, Jon, a fellow Bristol City fan. Things progressed, and fortunately for us, that billionaire then assumed control of our football club, which wasn't achieving much.

Fast forward to today. He's constructed a brand new stadium (redeveloped, if someone wants to be particular) and provided us with a very impressive training ground. We've transitioned from a League One club to a solid Championship side with an excellent academy. Everything associated with the club is something we can take pride in.

The only unaccomplished goal is Premiership football, but that's certainly within our reach. If I didn't know the club and read through the forum, I'd assume the owners had committed some catastrophic error.

I agree completely that they haven't always made the best decisions or approached things in the optimal way, but who in life has always got it right? Who in business has never made a mistake? Like most people, I've felt frustrated at times, but let's be completely honest, they've propelled this club forward.

So, what exactly do people expect from them? Is it solely because we haven't reached Premiership football yet? Because from what I can see, everything else appears rather positive. I just can't fathom it!

But what if or when we reach the Premier League under the Lansdowns? If they've provided us with a new stadium, top-notch training facilities, and Premiership football, would we still demand their departure for not delivering everything sooner?

Therefore, posing the question, and let's aim for a candid, thoughtful discussion here: what is it precisely that you want them to achieve? Surely, the benefits of their ownership outweigh the drawbacks.

Positives massively out way the drawbacks, anyone arguing anything else is a numpty. They clearly have limited football ‘knowledge’ and made some poor decisions - but we have had stability and they care about the club, so we are lucky to have them. 

[Galley is our king]

1 minute ago, CardiffRed said:

Positives massively out way the drawbacks, anyone arguing anything else is a numpty. They clearly have limited football ‘knowledge’ and made some poor decisions - but we have had stability and they care about the club, so we are lucky to have them. 

So.... this is your 6th post and you joined yesterday.....

Must be bloody brilliant overtime rate over Christmas  

[Mr Popodopolous]

Is a shame how things have stagnated and gone sour really. Yet some needless decisions helped to bring parts of it about.

From a few years ago, sure we've all read it but in SL's words.

‘It was a trip to Barcelona, seeing the basketball, water polo and all the other sports under the Barcelona umbrella which made me think that Bristol could follow that model. All the clubs together can go far. Sport can provide identity. And I'm perhaps more proud of the work of our community trusts and foundations than what happens on the pitch.’