The Lansdowns - What Do People Actually Want

[maxjak]

16 minutes ago, RedM said:

You got to ask, if it's such a great idea why don't other clubs do the same?

You mean like the Barcelona FC   Basketball, Volleyball, Rugby, Ice Hockey,    Wheelchair Basketball and Futsal teams?  Apologies for being a smartarse!   Happy Xmas.

Edited December 24, 2023 by maxjak

[Mr Popodopolous]

It is quite an interesting quote.

Aspects of it such as youth through the ranks and the community are laudable...big problem is sacking NP, starving him of funds and messing up the structure between the summer and the present!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, maxjak said:

You mean like the Barcelona FC   Basketball, Volleyball, Rugby, Ice Hockey,    Wheelchair Basketball and Futsal teams?

Think Real Madrid may habe some sort of multiclub model, PSG likewise.

More common by far in Europe though and these are established big clubs both domestically and European..as an English Championship middle ranking club it's quite an issue!

Not so much financially but as a package to be taken on.

[Lew-T]

20 years of failure and mixed messages. It’s really not that hard to understand is it?

They waited 6 weeks to appoint a new manager, only to appoint the assistant of the previous failed regime.

[maxjak]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Think Real Madrid may habe some sort of multiclub model, PSG likewise.

More common by far in Europe though and these are established big clubs both domestically and European..as an English Championship middle ranking club it's quite an issue!

Not so much financially but as a package to be taken on.

I guess the Lansdowns are trying to punch above their weight.........hope it doesn't come back to bite them?

[Mr Popodopolous]

You can sort of make a case for the defence there in that we had no real clue as to what would occur with Covid.

Lansdown and the club were among the most bullish about things opening up again in 2020-21. We had high hopes..we were down for a couple of games as test events only to be dashed due to the changing Covid scenarios.

Think we were quite hopeful of relative normality resuming fairly quickly.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Jacki]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Exactly.  It doesn’t smack of “aspire to be in the PL” though, does it.  It’s nice, it’s decent for the Champ, but that’s not where we aim to be, is it?  It might’ve been the best we could achieve with the money / land available, and to that, “nice one”, but it ain’t PL quality from reading those who would know.

I think the HPC is the least of our problems to be honest. I’ve been lucky enough to go  to many over the last few years (Wolves, Southampton, Reading, Swansea, Cardiff to name a few) and HPC compares well to pretty much any of them, Southampton maybe aside. I’ve also been to Spurs and Chelsea and they’re light years better, but surely that’s what we’d expect. If we were to make the Premier League, HPC would be absolutely fine at that level and like I say would be the least of our worries.

Going back to the original question around the Lansdowns, in the last 18 months or so I’ve become increasingly frustrated with them. Their ‘we know best’ attitude and their inability to work with anyone who questions them continues to be a real problem and I’ve said numerous times on other threads that they have binned off anyone who actually knows how to run a successful championship football club. They have surrounded themselves with people they know and trust, and while that in itself isn’t an issue, they have also got rid of anyone who questions the status quo and the way we’ve always done things. My worry, therefore, is that we will be in this cycle of mediocrity until they sell up and move on. It’s hard to improve if you’re that resistant to change.

Anyhow, merry Christmas all - see you on the other side! 

[BetterRedthanBlue]

Steve has all my respect for supporting us financially every year and redeveloping Ashton Gate.

But it's the constant mixed messages, the not straight forward answers, the bizarre decisions with no answer they just know "its the best step" that need to be sorted.

Things were running smoothly when Richard was Chief Executive because everything was explained why things were happening "we need to cut down on x so there won't be much spend in the market" and then he moves they hire someone who has a fantastic track record and then let him go without saying anything until it was spoken about on here.

I think he also needs to stop Bristol Sport it was a good idea but we aren't a big enough name for it to work.

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, BetterRedthanBlue said:

But it's the constant mixed messages, the not straight forward answers, the bizarre decisions with no answer they just know "its the best step" that need to be sorted.

It's quite wearing and attritional isn't it.

17 minutes ago, BetterRedthanBlue said:

Things were running smoothly when Richard was Chief Executive because everything was explained why things were happening "we need to cut down on x so there won't be much spend in the market" and then he moves they hire someone who has a fantastic track record and then let him go without saying anything until it was spoken about on here.

Communication dropped sharply post Gould, there has at least been an uptick in quantity of late but not in respect of the quality!

Edited December 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[tin]

7 hours ago, GrahamC said:

How have they “propelled the club forward” under Les Kew & Jimmy Lumsden (with Jordan’s team) we finished 9th.

They have only bettered this twice.

The ground is far better, the training ground is far better, but nothing else is.

They employ their mates & sycophants & have learned nothing about the football industry the whole time they have been in it.

I’m not going to mention Pearson but who in their right mind replaces Phil Alexander with a barely literate ex footballer?

You asked what we want, I want them to sell up.

 

Nail on the head. 

For Steve, he’s had more than a quarter of a century involved with the club and appears to have learnt nothing. In fact, he’s become more insular since moving to Guernsey and surrounding himself with people who won’t challenge him. That sort of culture will never achieve success. 

I always remember Danny Wilson being asked “if you had £1m to spend, how would you spend it?” His response was “a new training ground”. That was in 2002, so why did it take 19 years for that to come to fruition? Crazy IMO and the irony is there’s little about it that’s high performance. 

I’d add statements like “it’s my club and I’ll do what I want” and “judge me on Tinnion”, plus a series of woeful managerial decisions starting with the influence in appointing Pulis when Moyes was flying in from a family holiday in Florida to take the job. That extended to Fawthrop, Tinnion, Coppell, Millen, McInnes, LJ (IMO) and Holden. 

The nepotism, the arrogance, the lack of accountability, the cock up with the kit supplier and the robin splat. Buying the bullshit of Ashton and LJ, allowing costs to spiral out of control. The lack of communication and treating supporters with contempt. The constant talk of PL or being the new FCB! Delusional. 

I come back to my original point: SL has been involved with BCFC for 26 years now and what have we got to show for it? A training ground and revamped gate, both of which should’ve been done years ago, and a loss-making club that doesn’t own its ground. All I want for Christmas, is the Lansdowns out!

Edited December 24, 2023 by tin

[bcfc01]

24 minutes ago, BetterRedthanBlue said:

 

I think he also needs to stop Bristol Sport it was a good idea but we aren't a big enough name for it to work.

With the Bears in their Premier League, the women in their Premier League, and the Flyers in their Premier League, and City in the Championship, it doesn't seem to be going too badly.

[glynriley]

7 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

With the Bears in their Premier League, the women in their Premier League, and the Flyers in their Premier League, and City in the Championship, it doesn't seem to be going too badly.

Isn’t it wonderful that the one team I give a **** about, is the one that’s underperforming. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Interesting note in the Daily Mail pertaining to the modern matchday experience.

Not specifically related to us but bits sound familiar.

It does seem like in some areas at least we are alongside the curve a bit.

"Many want an 'experience' and want to spend several hours inside the stadium, enjoying excellent food and drink catering options and perhaps live music or entertainment".

Not for me but elements of the matchday experience do seem to have moved with the times.

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So, you’re both happy that a £36.5m revenue business costs £65.3m to run, yet gets nowhere near being able to recoup some of that by getting to the Premier League?

Well, bugger me if you think that’s me being ENTITLED!!!

I’m not even close to being an “entitled fan”.  It’s been a concern of mine since 2016-17, and it bit us on the effing arse big-time in recent years.

I’m delighted we ONLY lost £22m last season including a £9m transfer, stopping that being £30m. (That’s sarcasm btw!)

What planet am I on?  Give myself a slap in the face for being so entitled.

Pardon me for thinking that there might be a different way / a better way of doing this without feeling that we should be indebted to Steve Lansdown.

(Rant not aimed at you both, just the general lack of understanding why some of us feel as passionately as we do about the ownership / situation).

I think you miss the point that without the Lansdowns being prepared to cover those losses we'd be know where near where we are now - regardless of the success or failure that that is..

Imagine if they'd sold to Al Quadi 10/15/20 years ago...  

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I think you miss the point that without the Lansdowns being prepared to cover those losses we'd be know where near where we are now - regardless of the success or failure that that is..

Imagine if they'd sold to Al Quadi 10/15/20 years ago...  

Could the Lansdowns have run us in a way that didn't incur such hefty losses- suppose a trade-off is that the infrastructure maybe worse.

There is no exact formula in football e.g. look at Ipswich, and their absurd rise but look at Derby and Mel Morris...and to a lesser degree.

Inherited superb and respectable bases respectively, ended in disaster in various ways.

Reading had a base to an extent but a narrow window, Birmingham had a solid base.

Otoh Luton, Coventry- then sides like Millwall and Preston often outperforming the budget.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[glynriley]

11 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I think you miss the point that without the Lansdowns being prepared to cover those losses we'd be know where near where we are now - regardless of the success or failure that that is..

Imagine if they'd sold to Al Quadi 10/15/20 years ago...  

How do you know we’d be nowhere near where we are now mate? That’s just your opinion. They only cover the losses they create. 
 

Imagine if they’d sold to Tony Bloom 10/15/20 years ago…

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, glynriley said:

How do you know we’d be nowhere near where we are now mate? That’s just your opinion. They only cover the losses they create. 
 

Imagine if they’d sold to Tony Bloom 10/15/20 years ago…

Bloom is a Brighton fan though so couldn't see him buying anyone else but totally get what you are saying- someone in his mould, of his style.

[glynriley]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Bloom is a Brighton fan though so couldn't see him buying anyone else but totally get what you are saying- someone in his mould, of his style.

Well I was just going with the hypothetical situation that we’d be crap and Al Quadi could have bought us. 
 

OK, Paul Ballantyne might be a better example. Doubt he grew up dreaming of owning Luton. 

[nebristolred]

Five pages in already so I'm sure it's been done to death, but from my perspective, I'm fully appreciative of the general benevolence, the effort, and quite obviously the finances.

What do I want? Well, it's simple, I think a huge step would be to get people into the right roles at the top level. People who know what they're doing, people with experience, and in the correct roles. Not people who have 'grown into' roles, not people who are doing multiple roles, but a normal, proper structure at this level. From what I gather having read a lot on here, we are miles off in that regard.

I honestly think that change alone, with his backing, would set us in the right direction. It might mean SL having to give up a little control, but that's the point. You employ people in roles precisely because they know what to do. If we had 4 or 5 people in the correct roles with proper experience it feels like it would optimise the investment, and make so much more of an impact. The Lansdown's have perhaps had the right intention with a totally wrong execution.

I'm finding the situation very frustrating at times but I'm very thankful for what they've done. I just wish they would be a lot smarter at the top level. We've had a hint of what it was like, and it's even more annoying because we sort of had it right not too long ago. But it would inevitably trickle down and perpetuate throughout the club as a consequence.

Getting rid of NP was all that more frustrating because it felt like precisely the opposite direction of where we should be going, given the context of what I wrote above.

Edited December 25, 2023 by nebristolred

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Well I was just going with the hypothetical situation that we’d be crap and Al Quadi could have bought us. 
 

OK, Paul Ballantyne might be a better example. Doubt he grew up dreaming of owning Luton. 

Fair yes. See your point now.

Could be, could be..something also tells me as well as questionable decisions that we aren't the luckiest of clubs either. Idk, maybe I'm just unduly negative from 25 years (I know plenty on here have followed much longer) but we seem to reach a certain ceiling or have post 2008..and then their stall or reverse.

Down to the Lansdowns, perhaps but it does seem we have tried a number of approaches wirh bit much success but sacking NP and wrecking the structure was ludicrous!

[Fuber]

8 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I like their ownership and would say that it has clearly been of overall benefit to the football club.

This isn't my saying "there are worse owners out there", rather that I think that they are good owners and I would like them to continue.

That said I am not a happy clapper with the blinkers on.

They have made mistakes but for me the only fully egregious one was appointing Mark Ashton despite his dire track record and allowing him to pour money away on far too high wages for years and years.

He has finally gone, though it is annoying that he was allowed to choose when to leave rather than being booted out of the door when the desperate financial consequences of his player purchasing became starkly clear to all concerned.

As a nod in Ashton's favour though he was genuinely excellent in obtaining top dollar values on player sales when for thirty years it has seemed to be official club policy to sell 'em off cheap as chips. That doesn't however make up for the poor track record on purchases and wages.

And Appointing Millen.

And Tinnion.

And Holden.

And Alexander (just railroad him within 5 months).

And Pilling.

And LJ.

And not backing Pearson.

And the Hummel Debacle.

And the O'Neills situation (late kit launch).

And the poor continuous communication across the last 12 years - the last two months not withstanding nor making up for it in the slightest.

Why is Ashton the only egregious mistake? They're all egregious as they keep being made.

[Swede]

I thought, in all my years supporting this club, we had finally got the experienced team together. The missing pieces to propel us forward. Richard Gould was excellent, Phil Alexander, his replacement, came with good experience in doing a similar job with Crystal Palace. For me it was the structure the club employed, like Dave Rennie and Jason Euell. Forget players, Rennie, with all of his experience and knowhow was arguably our best signing at the time. Then there was Nigel Pearson who had all of the managerial experience and knowledge we needed. The hierarchy could sit back and concentrate on other matters. 

All this has now suddenly gone with no real reason why and a complete disregard or acknowledgement to the work Pearson put in and we have gone back to a failed ex manager who seems to be doing some sort of vague multiple job rolls from chief exec to scouting. We have an uneasy reluctant chairman who looks so uncomfortable in his role like a man with an ill fitting shirt. We have a new inexperienced coach at this level who's not going to rock the boat.

I am not really sure what the Lansdown's want as leaving the experienced team in charge to manage the football operation side of the club would allow them to concentrate more on the development of the sporting quarter and leave junior to design the next home and away shirts, which is about the only thing he enjoys. 

I think someone with fresh impetus is required as its been proven at other clubs like Brighton. Even Swiss Tony is still getting a tune out of Ipswich. What worries me is the continual negative fallout from Pearson's exit. Its all very strange and football people will know what sort of people run this club and will hamper us in the future unless they sell up.

[maxjak]

Getting back  to back wins for the first time in 10 months is an achievement that should be acknowledged, and this against two top 6 opponents?                                  This was performed without any new players, and 5 still out injured?  I was a major supporter of Pearson, but for me the King is dead.........long live the King.  Liam Manning is now hopefully the future of our club, and I will support him, and keep looking forward....and not back.  The Lansdowns have made numerous mistakes in the past.........but for me, their latest appointment is at last, and not before time?......  the correct one.

[Superjack]

Sell up and **** off.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, CardiffRed said:

Positives massively out way the drawbacks, anyone arguing anything else is a numpty. They clearly have limited football ‘knowledge’ and made some poor decisions - but we have had stability and they care about the club, so we are lucky to have them. 

So you’re calling me and plenty of others numpties are you.  It’s just your opinion, one I couldn’t disagree with more.  I’m just not as rude as you.  Welcome to the forum…again!

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

I think you miss the point that without the Lansdowns being prepared to cover those losses we'd be know where near where we are now - regardless of the success or failure that that is..

Imagine if they'd sold to Al Quadi 10/15/20 years ago...  

I miss no points whatsoever!

I’m suggesting it’s possible to run a football club that makes it to the Premier League without needing to cover losses of the scale Steve Lansdown has had to.  Why do I think it’s possible?  Because several other clubs have done so without incurring losses of the magnitude SL / City has.  Some of them starting from worse positions than Bristol City were when Steve Lansdown did in 2002.

So having reiterated my point again, what point am I missing.

Why do you think Steve Lansdown is always trying to copy other clubs?  Because they’ve achieved more than he has, and much more effectively / efficiently.

Brentford, Luton are my point.

[ashton_fan]

4 hours ago, RedM said:

You got to ask, if it's such a great idea why don't other clubs do the same?

He got the idea from Barcelona who have a similar set up

[RollsRoyce]

5 hours ago, maxjak said:

Who said........::we have never had it better?"   certainly not me?   But i am a realist, who understands that even a businessman who enjoys massive success in his chosen field of finance, does not have the divine right to be successful in an area that he has no experience,background or insight in?   SL was a fan who wanted   his chosen team to be a mirror of his successful business.  But his ego has prevented him from taking advice and council from football experts, who could have provided him with direction and guidance over the 20 years that he has failed to realise his dream?

 He has failed to bring success to Bristol City because he has not had the unpretentious and humble attitude to take on board expert advice by football people who could have offered him the instruction he so desperately was in need of?   But he has kept trying, and i believe he might at last have found the right appointment? 

Criticising and demeaning the Lansdowns is everyones right, but as they are not going anywhere soon, it is pointless.   I am happy to stick with them in the hope that if you keep throwing enough mud at a wall....eventually some will stick?  Personally I see a bright future, maybe i am a misguided fool........but as i have been supporting them for over 40 years i feel i have the right to be one?      

You have every right to be a misguided fool. You are correct. 

[The Constant Rabbit]

 

Honestly - SL is so bloody rich that the 200 mil or so he has spent is NOTHING to him or his family.

 

Consistently in the top 1000 of the worlds richest individuals, SL has spent roughly 1% of his entire wealth over the last 20+ years.

 

1%

 

And for that he now OWNS the stadium, land, housing, offices and stadium rights of the entire AG footprint AND all the AV land - which is being parcelled up for sale as a growing estate.

 

He will sell and get what - 120 mil back ?

 

I'd wager he keeps a significant % of AV land, plus a small holding % in BS

 

@Kid in the Riot knows more than most - he'd know the selling package, plus what's NOT included.

 

I'd honestly doubt if SL will lose much of the money he spent over the journey.

 

The losers are the fans - we have no ground or say in the running of City, and have watched SL royally screw up time and time again, with no ability to have any input to the running of BCFC.

 

Lansdown will leave with no legacy, (that he didn't write himself on the side of the stadium) and not much goodwill.

 

It could have been so different if SL had any humility.

 

He doesn't.

 

So here we are, with an owner nobody likes or admires, in a stadium that isn't ours, looking back on 20+ years of mediocrity.

 

SL could have taken us to the Prem any time he wanted, but that means giving up absolute power over his toy.

 

As the man said, 'my money my club'

 

I say - you had the opportunity to have it all, and were found wanting.

 

 

[exAtyeoMax]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting note in the Daily Mail pertaining to the modern matchday experience.

Not specifically related to us but bits sound familiar.

It does seem like in some areas at least we are alongside the curve a bit.

"Many want an 'experience' and want to spend several hours inside the stadium, enjoying excellent food and drink catering options and perhaps live music or entertainment".

Not for me but elements of the matchday experience do seem to have moved with the times.

I don’t know if they really do? Most fans, home and away, drink in pubs around the stadiums, usually get in, final whistle, get out. I’m thinking of fans near me in London. 

[NickJ]

It’s very simple.

Steve dismantled the constitution of the club which said, post 1982, that nobody should own more than 25% of Bristol City. 
 

So now Steve owns pretty much 100%, and in doing so has taken away the sole tangible asset, the football stadium, which Steve now effectively owns personally.

Steve has done that, his choice, and he is right when he says it’s his club.

People talk about Steve redeveloping the stadium, but in Steve’s 20 years there are plenty of other clubs who have done the same, so that doesn’t make him some sort of saint, just someone doing what is necessary. And let’s not forget, the club had planning permission to build a 12,000 seater stand, with finance in place to do it, long before Steve’s arrival, which he decided not to go ahead with.

So in summary, because he’s taken the club away from the fans, he has a responsibility to deliver success for the football club, relative to what we would have experienced without him.

Which hasn’t happened.