Guardiola Ball is NOT the Way

[CS Red]

Scrumpys Dietary Advisor has got it spot on in all his posts in this thread. Manning's brand of football is boring if this is it. I really hope he's got more to bring. 

 

I've gone from can't wait for the next game to I don't know if I can be bothered. But needless to say I will end up going because that's what we do as City fans. 

 

If this is the Lansdown's idea of front footed, entertaining football with a top 6 squad they need their heads reading.

 

 

 

[Redtucks]

24 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Rovers scouts looking for minge in a foreign land.

Now there’s a surprise.

 

What's wrong with Irene's minge???

 

[pongo88]

In any sport the old adage “play to your strengths” is the best advice. The big question is, what are City’s strengths?  Definitely not the style of play we saw today, but the basic fact is the City squad is not good enough for a top 6 finish. Too many bargain basement signings. 

[Bs4Red]

10 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Do they though? Do Liverpool play Guardiola ball or do they have their own identity? 
 

The teams that get out of this league without parachute payments have to find their own way of playing because inevitably they don't have the best players in the league, they've been hoovered up. So they find a system that works, either for the players or they recruit to a plan

So if this is the way manning wants to do it, surely he deserves a chance to recruit for it to work. 
 

I don’t disagree regarding Liverpool but they still set up similarly, obviously they are blessed with explosive pace which is what Klopp utilises differently to Pep. 
 

We are not a million miles away from getting it right, unfortunately we don’t have enough mobility around the pitch to make it work currently, also have to remember we are 2 months into his tenure. 

[glynriley]

7 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

So if this is the way manning wants to do it, surely he deserves a chance to recruit for it to work. 
 

 

But the rhetoric from the board, was we didn’t need to recruit. The squad was good enough, the best for years according to Jon. 

NP was sacked because “this squad” was under performing. Liam should be getting more from THIS squad. 
 

Or have the Lansdowns ****** up again?

[Bazooka Joe]

51 minutes ago, bert tann said:

Rovers already have scouts working undercover in North Korea looking for the next Son Heung-minge.

 

More like Some Huge-Minge.

Hence them working undercover.

Pervy Rags.

[Bs4Red]

Just now, glynriley said:

But the rhetoric from the board, was we didn’t need to recruit. The squad was good enough, the best for years according to Jon. 

NP was sacked because “this squad” was under performing. Liam should be getting more from THIS squad. 
 

Or have the Lansdowns ****** up again?

I’d suggest he is getting more from this side. We are 4 points off the play offs and 4 places higher than when NP departed. 

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, glynriley said:

But the rhetoric from the board, was we didn’t need to recruit. The squad was good enough, the best for years according to Jon. 

NP was sacked because “this squad” was under performing. Liam should be getting more from THIS squad. 
 

Or have the Lansdowns ****** up again?

Have one guess……….

[MelksRed]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

 

15 points from Mannings 11 games = 1.36PPG so there has been no real improvement so far on Pearsons stats this season.

Yes, but we are playing "front foot football"....clearly this means across the back repeatedly with no forward movement. 

Simply undone by a patient team who knew that, on the balance of probability, an opportunity would arise.....and it did....on 89mins.....they were playing for a draw came away with much more.....we were playing for a win (not sure I actually believe that now I've written it) and come away with nothing. 

Edited January 1 by MelksRed

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I’d suggest he is getting more from this side. We are 4 points off the play offs and 4 places higher than when NP departed. 

Results show he’s getting pretty much the SAME points per game. That’s not a criticism either. At Watford he got more from the players, today he got less than **** all out of them. That’s the squad we’ve got.

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

2 minutes ago, MelksRed said:

Yes, but we are playing "front foot football"....clearly this means across the back repeatedly with no forward movement. 

Simply undone by a patient team who knew that, on the balance of probability, an opportunity would arise.....and it did....on 89mins.....they were playing for a draw came away with much more.....we were playing for a win (not sure I actually believe that now I've written it) and come away with nothing. 

I thought that until 60 mins, but then it became clear that they fancied their chances.

To be fair, they missed 3 very decent chances before finally putting one away

[UncleRed]

25 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

There's some wonderfully rose tinted glasses being worn here.

Are you telling me some of the absolute bollocks served up under Russell Osman in the mid 90's with players like Colin Loss, Henry McKop and Rodney McAree should now be seen as some sort of footballing nirvana? I don't think so.

I've sat through some go awful shite over the years regardless of the era 

It’s what they do on here, take something and make it fit their agenda one way or another. Sad people.

[Bs4Red]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Results show he’s getting pretty much the SAME points per game. That’s not a criticism either. At Watford he got more from the players, today he got less than **** all out of them. That’s the squad we’ve got.

I mean he’s 0.07 higher, we’ve scored more goals per game slightly and for have conceded roughly the same per game. 
 

This after 11 games, so with time I have no doubt that only improves. Granted I could be wrong mate but this is NP side. 
 

So LM is getting more out of a side that isn’t his than the previous manager. 
 

With a few additions I only see this improving personally. Players are still adapting and learning. 

[Roger Red Hat]

Just now, Bs4Red said:

Granted I could be wrong mate but this is NP side. 
 

Probably NOT an NP side, just the players he was permitted to have because he's a nasty straight talking man.

[Son of Fred]

49 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

No one coaches teams to play slow paced football though it just happens to be how those games pan out. I thought we moved the ball fairly quickly first half but in the second you could argue Millwall stopped us from playing. You can also argue a lot of these players have limitations when playing this style.

What point are you even trying to make here?

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I mean he’s 0.07 higher, we’ve scored more goals per game slightly and for have conceded roughly the same per game. 
 

This after 11 games, so with time I have no doubt that only improves. Granted I could be wrong mate but this is NP side. 
 

So LM is getting more out of a side that isn’t his than the previous manager. 
 

With a few additions I only see this improving personally. Players are still adapting and learning. 

So what if ifs a NP side. His brief was to come in here and improve THIS squad of players. 

Now we suddenly need new players go make us better? Bs. 

Today was just as bad as the QPR game. You'd think they'd have learned something after 11 games? 

 

[Fuber]

5 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Guardiola ball is not the way. 
The way that has just won a treble and dominated English football since it begun. 
 

Today was poor, but it needs to be tweaked and have the right players for it too work. All needs time.

The days of blood and thunder football are gone. Any successful team currently play a version of your “Guardiola ball”

There are teams that don't play possession based and do well. Villa, Bournemouth, Palace, West Ham - all examples of teams that play on the counter or wing-play without great amounts of possession. Secondly - Guardiola-ball has adapted, more and more season by season, it may keep the ball and focus possession still, but he uses have changed. Case in point, look at how Guardiola setup against Klopp back in April. (https://www.premierleague.com/news/3791815) Transitions is the key word. Its why I - personally - liked NP's approach as it was pragmatic.

The only teams that play possession and do well is where they (already) have the players for it - usually with a great advantage of technical players with comparison to the rest of the league they play in. Leicester this season for example, along with Southampton, can affod to do so - as they have the forward players with the creativity to do so as they have the one vs one ability to beat a man.

Problems with a Guardiola-like system (or how the gist of it is emulated at this level) as you moot above is that, re the bit on bold - you're not likely going to be able to get the players that can pull of that system at our level. Its that simple. Leicester manage the sort of possessions numbers under Maresca, because that squad shouldnt have been playing at this level in the first place.

Compare and contrast the opposite to that (interpreted) approach with Luton of last season. Well coached 4-4-2/4-4-1-1, round pegs in round holes. Horvath, Bree/Drameh, Osho, Lockyer, Bell; Clark, Campbell, Mpanzu/Nakamba, Doughty, Adebayo, Morris. Direct and quick in general play and transition. Two forwards strong in the air and quick on the deck, with wingers in Doughty and Clark who have good technique, with quick overlapping full-backs in Bell and Drameh. The epitomy of 'football can be a simple game if you do the basics right'.

I despise suggestions that suggest we need to rebuild. How many 'right' players is this evolution going to take? - as based on todays evidence, its everyone apart from the backline.

[Kingswood Robin]

34 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

So if this is the way manning wants to do it, surely he deserves a chance to recruit for it to work. 
 

I don’t disagree regarding Liverpool but they still set up similarly, obviously they are blessed with explosive pace which is what Klopp utilises differently to Pep. 
 

We are not a million miles away from getting it right, unfortunately we don’t have enough mobility around the pitch to make it work currently, also have to remember we are 2 months into his tenure. 

He does need time and some money if he's going to change things. I just wish all this experimental stuff could have taken place during a close season rather than in the middle of an actual one. The Lansdowns need to remember that we are watching these games, even if they aren't.

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

12 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

It’s what they do on here, take something and make it fit their agenda one way or another. Sad people.

And you have completely missed the point...

I've sat through plenty of dross throughout the decades BUT, that provoked an appropriate response

Today provoked nothing, I have never experienced Ashton Gate in total silence. It was truly soporific. The only level of excitement was when we won a corner late on which was embarrassing but, it was all we had to shout about 

My point is about the football, not City specifically today. This style of play will be the death of football from a live spectator perspective 

[AshtonGreat]

55 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Do they though? Do Liverpool play Guardiola ball or do they have their own identity? 
 

The teams that get out of this league without parachute payments have to find their own way of playing because inevitably they don't have the best players in the league, they've been hoovered up. So they find a system that works, either for the players or they recruit to a plan

Liverpool don't win much compared with Man City

[Fuber]

43 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Sorry what? Where did I defend the performance? Are you looking at the right comment?

You criticised SB for calling a dire performance dire and insinuated he was still drunk from NY - and said by return it was 'not great'.

It was a woeful performance up there with the S'OD era, was my point. To call his critique of today 'one of the weirdest posts on this forum' is some way off the mark.

Today was up there with the Barnsley game at AG back when Simpson and Downing took caretaker charge against Barnsley. For context in case people can't remember that far back - https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12220056/bristol-city-0-1-barnsley-carlton-morris-fires-tykes-to-victory.

[RSW8]

Thought we got worse the more subs we made. I’d lost interest in the game a little to be honest but it looked to be like-for-like subs in the hope that fresh legs would change things. For me, we needed to be more creative tactically as Millwall had pretty much complete control of that game second half. In particular, we were sat too deep and Knight was having to get the ball 10 yards in our own half as opposed to theirs which made it easier for them to nullify his threat. Interesting that manning said post match he thought the players needed to be braver. For me, it was manning that needed to be braver tactically by changing the direction of that game. 

[Bs4Red]

9 minutes ago, Fuber said:

There are teams that don't play possession based and do well. Villa, Bournemouth, Palace, West Ham - all examples of teams that play on the counter or wing-play without great amounts of possession. Secondly - Guardiola-ball has adapted, more and more season by season, it may keep the ball and focus possession still, but he uses have changed. Case in point, look at how Guardiola setup against Klopp back in April. (https://www.premierleague.com/news/3791815) Transitions is the key word. Its why I - personally - liked NP's approach as it was pragmatic.

The only teams that play possession and do well is where they (already) have the players for it - usually with a great advantage of technical players with comparison to the rest of the league they play in. Leicester this season for example, along with Southampton, can affod to do so - as they have the forward players with the creativity to do so as they have the one vs one ability to beat a man.

Problems with a Guardiola-like system (or how the gist of it is emulated at this level) as you moot above is that, re the bit on bold - you're not likely going to be able to get the players that can pull of that system at our level. Its that simple. Leicester manage the sort of possessions numbers under Maresca, because that squad shouldnt have been playing at this level in the first place.

Compare and contrast the opposite to that (interpreted) approach with Luton of last season. Well coached 4-4-2/4-4-1-1, round pegs in round holes. Horvath, Bree/Drameh, Osho, Lockyer, Bell; Clark, Campbell, Mpanzu/Nakamba, Doughty, Adebayo, Morris. Direct and quick in general play and transition. Two forwards strong in the air and quick on the deck, with wingers in Doughty and Clark who have good technique, with quick overlapping full-backs in Bell and Drameh. The epitomy of 'football can be a simple game if you do the basics right'.

I despise suggestions that suggest we need to rebuild. How many 'right' players is this evolution going to take? - as based on todays evidence, its everyone apart from the backline.

I didn’t say anything about a rebuild. I think we need a CM and a striker. 
That was needed before manning, the rest I think will be fine. 
 

I don’t think Manning has set us up to be so slow on the ball today and negative. 
 

Personally think we will get there. It’s still early days 

[Numero Uno]

24 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

It’s what they do on here, take something and make it fit their agenda one way or another. Sad people.

What’s the agenda? Today was total shite, aren’t you allowed to point that out without having an agenda? Did you attend today?

[redapple]

If every team plays Guardiola Ball they’re not all going to be successful! 
It will still be the teams with the best defenders and best goal scorers who come out on top . 
Soon enough teams will be counteracting G Ball with more direct tactics but they’ll still need top players to be successful. 
As it is City have strengths and weaknesses which were all to obvious today . 
I don’t expect Manning to be to robotic in how the team plays but I’m sure he learnt a lot today. 
Again, whatever tactics you go along with , it takes players to be decisive and to take risk as well as responsibility. Didn’t see any of that today . Just a rigid , dull pattern like watching participants stuck in a Maze. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What’s the agenda? Today was total shite, aren’t you allowed to point that out without having an agenda? Did you attend today?

I think you are replying to someone who is exactly what he claims other people are doing.

[Fuber]

25 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I mean he’s 0.07 higher, we’ve scored more goals per game slightly and for have conceded roughly the same per game. 
 

This after 11 games, so with time I have no doubt that only improves. Granted I could be wrong mate but this is NP side. 
 

So LM is getting more out of a side that isn’t his than the previous manager. 
 

With a few additions I only see this improving personally. Players are still adapting and learning. 

He's also got five first teamers back from being unavilable that NP didnt have available for selection.
So I'd expect him to get more out of the squad, to be honest.

[UncleRed]

8 minutes ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

And you have completely missed the point...

I've sat through plenty of dross throughout the decades BUT, that provoked an appropriate response

Today provoked nothing, I have never experienced Ashton Gate in total silence. It was truly soporific. The only level of excitement was when we won a corner late on which was embarrassing but, it was all we had to shout about 

My point is about the football, not City specifically today. This style of play will be the death of football from a live spectator perspective 

I’ve experienced Ashton gate multiple times when the atmosphere was worse than that today, and about the death of football people keep banging on about, that’s their opinion and not factual. I for one don’t find it boring watching the team I support live, playing that style. And I’m sure I’m not the only one.

 

6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What’s the agenda? Today was total shite, aren’t you allowed to point that out without having an agenda? Did you attend today?

I agree today was “shite”. But name me a team that has never played “shite”. And yes I did attend today, supporting the team no matter the circumstances.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, UncleRed said:

I’ve experienced Ashton gate multiple times when the atmosphere was worse than that today, and about the death of football people keep banging on about, that’s their opinion and not factual. I for one don’t find it boring watching the team I support live, playing that style. And I’m sure I’m not the only one.

 

I agree today was “shite”. But name me a team that has never played “shite”. And yes I did attend today, supporting the team no matter the circumstances.

Agreed every team plays shite and when they do it gets called out on their forum.

[UncleRed]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think you are replying to someone who is exactly what he claims other people are doing.

The people can’t see it on here when they are doing it, or maybe they do and that’s why theirs and your response get so feisty . I love it when someone points out the obvious but it’s against the grain on this website so it gets shut down.