Acceptance

[REDOXO]

Mistakes have been made. I have said this many times and I would guess no one would disagree. 
 

Steve picked the guys that he thought would take us up in his image including LJ, although I always thought Steve felt he owed GJ for not backing him. 
 

This coincided with Ashton and the spend culture. 
 

Pearson steadied the ship we all know that playing kids and making millions, however Steve lost interest and Jon was doing little to help publicly or privately. His yacht in the Caribbean is a long way from a Monday in the stores at Filton. 
 

Now we have JL a trust fund kid who has never had to get his hands dirty making **** decisions because Pearson was not going to give him due deference!

So we are back to the LJ scenario of a bloke who wants to play in his own image rather than manage what he has. 

[bcfc01]

44 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Tin hat on for this, but I really don't think the Lansdown's actually want promotion.

Why? I can't answer that, but it's just a gut feeling with the lack of a few more quality signings that we can afford to attack the top 6 places.

Time will tell I suppose. Hope I'm wrong.

 

I would think they are desperate for promotion to the EPL.

Unfortunately, they have absolutely no idea of how to get promotion.

Selling your best players season after season and not getting anywhere near replacing them, simply hoping for another Scott to come along to decrease the debts largely of their making, isn't exactly a smart plan for promotion. Its treading water, which means going backwards and watching others pass us by.

 

 

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Thought this for many a long year.  Some serious expenditure in GJ’s play off final. season could have seen us through, imo.

Remember when Cotts gained promotion and was left high and dry in The Championship.  It was said at the time he had done too well too quickly for SL’s taste.

i have zero confidence that they will guide the club to The Prem.  If LM is successful, as I hope he will be, he will be jettisoned like Cotts and Nige.

There commitment or otherwise to LM and their supposed promotion dream will become more obvious in this and the summer window

It’s a sad reflection of how badly managed we are at a board level that it’s now shit or bust. 

Tinnion and Lansdown have appointed a manager fundamentally unsuited to the squad he has. It smacks of a lack of due diligence and football knowledge (again, this isn’t saying LM should be sacked or is a bad coach). So they have boxed themselves in. They have to invest - and invest big - in order to make their latest project work. Yeah, doing so belies prior statements about no budget but what the hell, they need more than anything to succeed.

So, because they appointed the wrong man for the squad they now need to either sack him (won’t and shouldn’t happen and would make their position untenable), or back him financially to a far bigger extent than a more considered appointment would have needed. And with no guarantee of even that succeeding,

Basically, they’ve made an almighty mess of things. And they need to go as soon as possible.

[luke_bristol]

For those expecting big things next season, yes a pre-season with LM will do a lot for the squad, but we can expect to be at risk of losing at least TC and Jason Knight. And round and round we go…

[Mr Popodopolous]

A problem for us is we've boxed ourselves in off the pitch too.

Would never have sacked NP but we did.

I've said it elsewhere but I believe we are working towards the mooted new system of 70% of turnover for Football Wages, Player Amortisation and Agents Fees.

I don't pretend to have the answers but I believe it to be the case..could be as soon as 2024-25. Then again was mooted for 2022-23!

Just now, luke_bristol said:

For those expecting big things next season, yes a pre-season with LM will do a lot for the squad, but we can expect to be at risk of losing at least TC and Jason Knight. And round and round we go…

Not Knight IMO, 3 years left means we can be a bit harder line.

[Mr Chappers]

I’d prefer not to spend big this window, January signings can be over-priced desperation signings. We look reasonably safe, and it would take a lot of money to be anywhere near promotion standard, with no guarantee of success. 

[Ivorguy]

Just now, Mr Chappers said:

I’d prefer not to spend big this window, January signings can be over-priced desperation signings. We look reasonably safe, and it would take a lot of money to be anywhere near promotion standard, with no guarantee of success. 

A number of injuries similar to those under Nige would, imo, undo LM, who is unlikely to enthuse academy players 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

For those expecting big things next season, yes a pre-season with LM will do a lot for the squad, but we can expect to be at risk of losing at least TC and Jason Knight. And round and round we go…

Can’t see anyone expecting big things, I’m more worried about relegation next season.

If we can’t attract good players, and by all accounts we have missed out on two targets already, then our better players will be looking to move on.

We aren’t paying big wages so have to offer something else to targets, what do we have to show our ambition?
 

Manning was not first choice (fact) the current squad are struggling to beat teams that set up well against us, so just how many players do we need to be able to beat or at least draw against those teams.

[myol'man]

"Oh, he's only had 13 games" I hear.

Schumacher unbeaten in his first 5 at Stoke, that's a proper 'new manager bounce'

 

[Curr Avon]

2 hours ago, Jose said:

I’d imagine we willl be saying the same thing this time next season and the season after that and the season after that. 
 

The sooner the Lansdowns **** off the better.

No way, Jose!

[IAmNick]

40 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s a sad reflection of how badly managed we are at a board level that it’s now shit or bust. 

Tinnion and Lansdown have appointed a manager fundamentally unsuited to the squad he has. It smacks of a lack of due diligence and football knowledge (again, this isn’t saying LM should be sacked or is a bad coach). So they have boxed themselves in. They have to invest - and invest big - in order to make their latest project work. Yeah, doing so belies prior statements about no budget but what the hell, they need more than anything to succeed.

So, because they appointed the wrong man for the squad they now need to either sack him (won’t and shouldn’t happen and would make their position untenable), or back him financially to a far bigger extent than a more considered appointment would have needed. And with no guarantee of even that succeeding,

Basically, they’ve made an almighty mess of things. And they need to go as soon as possible.

Good posts on this thread Silvio. I keep thinking back to Jon a few times in those interviews saying something along the lines of - they (the club) clearly haven't communicated what they're looking for well enough to the fans if the sacking came as a surprise. To me the implication was that Pearson wasn't delivering the style of football they wanted, which was part of their decision.

The bit that confuses me is - the way we were playing and he was going to have us playing was no secret. Why was he here for so long in that case, or why appoint him at all? Is that why they didn't let him bring in many players? I think Manning is a fine appointment in general, but as you're saying it doesn't really make sense for us right now. Or at least, it doesn't in the context of the other expectations they've set and our current trajectory.

Look back at our last few managers. O'Driscoll, Cotterill, Johnson, Holden, Pearson, Manning. Can you see any, and I mean ANY "thread" through these appointments at all? Style of football, preferred type of players,  budget expectations, experience... anything?

Your second and third paragraphs could have been repeated with the Manning swapped out numerous times in the last 10-20 years.

Edited January 13 by IAmNick

[JP Hampton]

1 hour ago, Sniper said:

Tin hat on for this, but I really don't think the Lansdown's actually want promotion.

Why? I can't answer that, but it's just a gut feeling with the lack of a few more quality signings that we can afford to attack the top 6 places.

Time will tell I suppose. Hope I'm wrong.

 

I think they want promotion they just haven’t realised it’s actually going to take a bit more than a wish to get us there. They’re not willing to put in any more real money to get us there. 

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think the acceptance piece now has to be that Liam was the wrong Man(ning). That isn’t saying he should be sacked at all, but it’s saying it was a batshit decision to appoint a coach who has a preferred style of play (and I think it’s totally fair to say now an inability and intransigence to adapt away from that as the squad or situation demands), into a squad which would need at least 2-3 transfer windows to be reshaped to that style with no real guarantee of success.

My acceptance is that they got the appointment wrong on that measure. In addition to writing off the season by not supporting Pearson, because of the nature of play of his replacement and what is needed to deliver, they wrote off probably next season as well. And considering the average shelf life of a manager, and Liams predication to jump early if things are going well, I’d be surprised if he’s here at the start of 25/26 and we’ll be on another rebuild.

He’s not necessarily a bad coach (I have my doubts over his managerial ability) - but for this scenario, for this squad, he was the wrong man and he’ll need either shedloads of investment or many years to get it right considering where he starts from.

 

47 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s a sad reflection of how badly managed we are at a board level that it’s now shit or bust. 

Tinnion and Lansdown have appointed a manager fundamentally unsuited to the squad he has. It smacks of a lack of due diligence and football knowledge (again, this isn’t saying LM should be sacked or is a bad coach). So they have boxed themselves in. They have to invest - and invest big - in order to make their latest project work. Yeah, doing so belies prior statements about no budget but what the hell, they need more than anything to succeed.

So, because they appointed the wrong man for the squad they now need to either sack him (won’t and shouldn’t happen and would make their position untenable), or back him financially to a far bigger extent than a more considered appointment would have needed. And with no guarantee of even that succeeding,

Basically, they’ve made an almighty mess of things. And they need to go as soon as possible.

On fire tonight Silvio , on fire  

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, JP Hampton said:

I think they want promotion they just haven’t realised it’s actually going to take a bit more than a wish to get us there. They’re not willing to put in any more real money to get us there. 

We did, in culminating in the late 2010s.

The question is as always, how much can we spend, how much should we spend.

January 2008, major opportunity didn't strike while iron hot, FFP not a twinkle in Platini's eye.

In some ways January 2019 another central midfielder I'd argue we needed one for depth purposes. Brownhill and Pack were flogged Korey had recurring injuries, Hegeler had to retire while Walsh and Morrell weren't trusted.

[Peter1450]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Don't give a flip for the Bristol Sport stuff. BCFC is all I care about.

Me neither,my point being as someone above has said this whole thing smacks of being a vanity project and although Lansdown has invested millions he seems to have lost the will to spend what’s needed to keep any of his team’s competitive.

[lenred]

1 hour ago, Sniper said:

Tin hat on for this, but I really don't think the Lansdown's actually want promotion.

Why? I can't answer that, but it's just a gut feeling with the lack of a few more quality signings that we can afford to attack the top 6 places.

Time will tell I suppose. Hope I'm wrong.

 

They do.  They really do.  They just think they know how to do it when in reality they haven’t got a clue, and they won’t let their egos relinquish any say or power to anyone who does have a clue.   It’s a real shame.  

[Silvio Dante]

14 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Good posts on this thread Silvio. I keep thinking back to Jon a few times in those interviews saying something along the lines of - they (the club) clearly haven't communicated what they're looking for well enough to the fans if the sacking came as a surprise. To me the implication was that Pearson wasn't delivering the style of football they wanted, which was part of their decision.

The bit that confuses me is - the way we were playing and he was going to have us playing was no secret. Why was he here for so long in that case, or why appoint him at all? Is that why they didn't let him bring in many players? I think Manning is a fine appointment in general, but as you're saying it doesn't really make sense for us right now. Or at least, it doesn't in the context of the other expectations they've set and our current trajectory.

Look back at our last few managers. O'Driscoll, Cotterill, Johnson, Holden, Pearson, Manning. Can you see any, and I mean ANY "thread" through these appointments at all? Style of football, preferred type of players,  budget expectations, experience... anything?

Your second and third paragraphs could have been repeated with the Manning swapped out numerous times in the last 10-20 years.

It’s for me an interesting angle and I’m keen to move away from the “Nige good Liam bad” angle (but for avoidance of doubt I have significant doubts over Liam)

Your point about “lineage” is vital here for me. If you take successful clubs - from Liverpool and the “boot room”, or even examples like Swansea, there is a consistency to the appointments. A nuclear option, or a volte farce, only happens when things go wrong. Every club has an identity and a plan - take Sheffield United. Through Warnock to Wilder it’s been about outworking the opposition - the overlapping fullbacks were a sideshow - they were and are always more physical and worked harder. 
 

So I ask myself what is our identity - to me it’s always going to be wedded to the Cooper/Jordan teams I grew up with, and I think City fans have an expectation of that expansive attacking football. But moving away from that isn’t an issue if it’s part of a sustained and continuous strategy. And the issue is it hasn’t been. In fact, as Liam Manning himself might note, the board (Tinnikn//Lansdown) have done the opposite of “trusting the process” and have right angled at every turn- which is why we are where we are now

[joe jordans teeth]

2 hours ago, boadle said:

It certainly would. You free at the weekend?

Post of the year already 

[Redandproud]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Lansdown would sh1t himself if we ever went up. He would have to spend big money even to just compete at that level. 

We'll never go to the Premier League with the Lansdowns as owners, not willing to back BCFC, 

[JP Hampton]

26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We did, in culminating in the late 2010s.

The question is as always, how much can we spend, how much should we spend.

January 2008, major opportunity didn't strike while iron hot, FFP not a twinkle in Platini's eye.

In some ways January 2019 another central midfielder I'd argue we needed one for depth purposes. Brownhill and Pack were flogged Korey had recurring injuries, Hegeler had to retire while Walsh and Morrell weren't trusted.

Possibly, but they spent the money on the wrong manager. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, JP Hampton said:

Possibly, but they spent the money on the wrong manager. 

Totally agree.

SL has a real habit of backing the wrong horse..time after time.

Stick, twist, onto a good thing..he is and has been invariably wrong.

[intercity]

21 minutes ago, lenred said:

They do.  They really do.  They just think they know how to do it when in reality they haven’t got a clue, and they won’t let their egos relinquish any say or power to anyone who does have a clue.   It’s a real shame.  

It's quite amazing to think someone could be in the football business for so long and know and have learned so little about it. Beggars belief really.

[bcfc01]

1 hour ago, luke_bristol said:

For those expecting big things next season, yes a pre-season with LM will do a lot for the squad, but we can expect to be at risk of losing at least TC and Jason Knight. And round and round we go…

Tend to agree.

I think TC will go (ball is firmly in his court) if we persist in playing the way Manning wants.

Its not his game and doesn't play to his strengths.

Not good to watch it play out.

(can't see Knight leaving)

 

 

[lenred]

22 minutes ago, intercity said:

It's quite amazing to think someone could be in the football business for so long and know and have learned so little about it. Beggars belief really.

Amazing and depressing! 

[steviestevieneville]

3 hours ago, firstdivision said:

I’m sorry, this sort of abuse disgusts me. It is unnecessary and uncivilised. 

Oh no

[steviestevieneville]

54 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s for me an interesting angle and I’m keen to move away from the “Nige good Liam bad” angle (but for avoidance of doubt I have significant doubts over Liam)

Your point about “lineage” is vital here for me. If you take successful clubs - from Liverpool and the “boot room”, or even examples like Swansea, there is a consistency to the appointments. A nuclear option, or a volte farce, only happens when things go wrong. Every club has an identity and a plan - take Sheffield United. Through Warnock to Wilder it’s been about outworking the opposition - the overlapping fullbacks were a sideshow - they were and are always more physical and worked harder. 
 

So I ask myself what is our identity - to me it’s always going to be wedded to the Cooper/Jordan teams I grew up with, and I think City fans have an expectation of that expansive attacking football. But moving away from that isn’t an issue if it’s part of a sustained and continuous strategy. And the issue is it hasn’t been. In fact, as Liam Manning himself might note, the board (Tinnikn//Lansdown) have done the opposite of “trusting the process” and have right angled at every turn- which is why we are where we are now

Excellent post 

[firstdivision]

8 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Oh no

What makes me laugh is that no one was telling the Lansdowns to eff off after we drew at West Ham, or won at Watford to make three wins in a row. We lose at Preston and the toys come out. It’s pathetic and childish. And so is the abuse. 
I’d have far more respect for our keyboard-warrior supporters if they called for the Lansdowns to go after every win. 
Do you think @Davefevs (our most thoughtful and constructive poster) resorts to this sort of abuse? But fill your boots supporting abuse if that’s what makes you happy. 

 

[redsquirrel]

59 minutes ago, lenred said:

They do.  They really do.  They just think they know how to do it when in reality they haven’t got a clue, and they won’t let their egos relinquish any say or power to anyone who does have a clue.   It’s a real shame.  

that is where i think the problem always will be.  they had to go along with 3 years of gould,pearson etc to get them out the mess they bought into but cant stand being told how to do it,hence,when the water was calmer, tear up the script and start again with yes men who will suck up to the plan

[Silvio Dante]

20 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

What makes me laugh is that no one was telling the Lansdowns to eff off after we drew at West Ham, or won at Watford to make three wins in a row. We lose at Preston and the toys come out. It’s pathetic and childish. And so is the abuse. 
I’d have far more respect for our keyboard-warrior supporters if they called for the Lansdowns to go after every win. 
Do you think @Davefevs (our most thoughtful and constructive poster) resorts to this sort of abuse? But fill your boots supporting abuse if that’s what makes you happy. 

 

I think the thing you have to remember is that in the light of a good result anything classed as negative gets shouted down (and equally, in the case of a poor result anything good gets shouted down). No issue in that, it’s the way of a forum.

What I think you’re missing is that people like @Davefevs, myself etc are more looking at the thematics. We lost to Preston today - that happens. But if it happens as part of a wide thematic theme of Liams game management, and if the overall strategy seems misaligned, then we’ll (and others) will call it. I wanted the Lansdowns gone and expressed concerns over Liam post Watford. I’m in that boat now. A win over West Ham won’t change it. A long term change will.

If anyone is calling for the Lansdowns to go based on today it’s unreasonable. But as a thematic, it’s totally justified.

Edited January 13 by Silvio Dante

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think the thing you have to remember is that in the light of a good result anything classed as negative gets shouted down (and equally, in the case of a positive result anything negative gets shouted down). No issue in that, it’s the way of a forum.

What I think you’re missing is that people like @Davefevs, myself etc are more looking at the thematics. We lost to Preston today - that happens. But if it happens as part of a wide thematic theme of Liams game management, and if the overall strategy seems misaligned, then we’ll (and others) will call it. I wanted the Lansdowns gone and expressed concerns over Liam post Watford. I’m in that boat now. A win over West Ham won’t change it. A long term change will.

If anyone is calling for the Lansdowns to go based on today it’s unreasonable. But as a thematic, it’s totally justified.

@firstdivision I’m still in my self-imposed “evaluation period”…2 more league games to go…Watford and Coventry.

I’ve tried to avoid committing to any real conclusions, and on both sides of the fence, I’ve held my counsel…other than to suggest that overall there’s not been much change, certainly in the important things like goals for / against, chances created / conceded etc, etc. Any improvement or regression is pretty small or in some cases the attacking side +/- is balanced out by the opposite on the defensive side.

I’ve been documenting my usual stuff (photos, screenshots with blobs on), but also LM’s pre and post match interviews plus my own thoughts too.

I intend to write it all up…but as of tonight it does feel a bit like “how much can you write about little change”.  I’d expected it to feel different.