Throw-ins

[CityGill]

Firstly, I’d like to acknowledge that in the grand scheme of things, this is not the most important thing we need to fix. However, I have found it particularly irksome recently our inability to retain position from a throw-in or adequately defend our opponents throw ins. 

This is particularly true in advance positions, where more often than not, Tanner or Pring have to throw back to Vyner or Dickie due to lack of movement or support. I think there were 3 times yesterday, where Tanner threw the short throw and a combination of a poor return pass, or lack of control, meant we immediately lost possession.

The long throw down the line from deep also rarely gets any positive results, mainly due to our lack of physicality.

Defensively, we seem happy to let our opponents take a short throw with little pressure on the receiving player or we fail to track movement adequately. 

I am the first to admit, I am no football coach, and someone may have stats to prove that I’m completely wrong. From my point of view, we just don’t seem to be willing to take risks in advanced positions.

One other small thing, whilst I’m making a rare post…. And unfortunately we have conceded or given clear chances from this several times this season. Vyner, far too often, passes to Tanner, rather than going long or back to O’Leary, when Tanner is totally isolated. Normally he is quickly closed down, has nowhere to go and either, falls over trying to get a free kick, concedes a throw or looses possession, putting us immediately under pressure. The pass to Tanner is far to obvious and triggers an immediate  press.

[Back of the Dolman]

1 minute ago, CityGill said:

Firstly, I’d like to acknowledge that in the grand scheme of things, this is not the most important thing we need to fix. However, I have found it particularly irksome recently our inability to retain position from a throw-in or adequately defend our opponents throw ins. 

This is particularly true in advance positions, where more often than not, Tanner or Pring have to throw back to Vyner or Dickie due to lack of movement or support. I think there were 3 times yesterday, where Tanner threw the short throw and a combination of a poor return pass, or lack of control, meant we immediately lost possession.

The long throw down the line from deep also rarely gets any positive results, mainly due to our lack of physicality.

Defensively, we seem happy to let our opponents take a short throw with little pressure on the receiving player or we fail to track movement adequately. 

I am the first to admit, I am no football coach, and someone may have stats to prove that I’m completely wrong. From my point of view, we just don’t seem to be willing to take risks in advanced positions.

One other small thing, whilst I’m making a rare post…. And unfortunately we have conceded or given clear chances from this several times this season. Vyner, far too often, passes to Tanner, rather than going long or back to O’Leary, when Tanner is totally isolated. Normally he is quickly closed down, has nowhere to go and either, falls over trying to get a free kick, concedes a throw or looses possession, putting us immediately under pressure. The pass to Tanner is far to obvious and triggers an immediate  press.

This isn’t a recent issue, it was an issue last season and still is this season.

We seem totally static at throw ins, eventually a player will make a run towards the thrower who then gives it to the advancing player usually at hip height and the volleyed pass back to the thrower goes out of play or the thrower is immediately closed down by the opponent who has come with the runner.

we generally only retain possession at a throw in when we go back to a defender.

We don’t appear to have anybody apart from Cornick who can deliver a longer throw but we never try to gain ground working the line with a throw forwards down the line.

[robin_unreliant]

Tanner's throw-ins in the last ten minutes yesterday were very frustrating. Not blaming GT, who I think is a really solid defender. Just needs more thought going into them as, much as commented above, this has been annoying me for a few seasons now.

[Jerseybean]

Completely aligned with the comments in this thread and made mention of it in yesterday’s MDT.

A long-standing issue at BCFC and long-standing frustration of mine.  Throw ins are an important element of the game and we consistently fail with them, we either give the ball straight back to the thrower who is closed down with no options, or go backwards (often when we are in decent advanced positions) or simply lose possession as their player wins the ball from the throw.

My coaching qualifications are certainly limited but even when I played at a lowly level we had more ideas and routines from throw ins in our locker than City do. 

Certainly something that needs addressing. 

[Back of the Dolman]

4 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

Completely aligned with the comments in this thread and made mention of it in yesterday’s MDT.

A long-standing issue at BCFC and long-standing frustration of mine.  Throw ins are an important element of the game and we consistently fail with them, we either give the ball straight back to the thrower who is closed down with no options, or go backwards (often when we are in decent advanced positions) or simply lose possession as their player wins the ball from the throw.

My coaching qualifications are certainly limited but even when I played at a lowly level we had more ideas and routines from throw ins in our locker than City do. 

Certainly something that needs addressing. 

I forgot to put it in my earlier post on this subject but as I watched yesterday I thought that if we intend to retain possession as a team patiently probing until the opposition fail to cover a run or switch off to allow us to make a more incisive pass then surely a quick throw in or two would be perfect for catching teams out.

not back in shape or failing to cover the run if an attacking player.

Throw ins may seem unimportant to some but they are so easy to do well and can play a major part in a match.

[kiwicolin]

I hate it when the players creep up the line and then take the throw. Hence a couple of meters advantage . Why not get the ball persons to use the foam,  that the refs have, and mark the spot where the ball went out. Then the players know that is where they throw from.  

[Back of the Dolman]

12 minutes ago, kiwicolin said:

I hate it when the players creep up the line and then take the throw. Hence a couple of meters advantage . Why not get the ball persons to use the foam,  that the refs have, and mark the spot where the ball went out. Then the players know that is where they throw from.  

The ball persons really make little effort retrieving the ball or passing the ball to the thrower.

Maybe it’s just ours who are really bad but until they can achieve their primary role I wouldn’t be handing out responsibility for enforcing the laws of the game to them 

[Back of the Dolman]

Just now, Back of the Dolman said:

The ball persons really make little effort retrieving the ball or passing the ball to the thrower.

Maybe it’s just ours who are really bad but until they can achieve their primary role I wouldn’t be handing out responsibility for enforcing the laws of the game to them 

It is after all the responsibility of the match officials to ensure throw ins are taken from the appropriate spot 

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, robin_unreliant said:

Tanner's throw-ins in the last ten minutes yesterday were very frustrating. Not blaming GT, who I think is a really solid defender. Just needs more thought going into them as, much as commented above, this has been annoying me for a few seasons now.

A lot of the problem is lack of movement. Apart from Nahki who does run close and move away to make space, other tend to show and then stop surrounded by opposition players. We really could do with a Throw-in coach , if only when we get into the oppositions final 3rd. 
There were a couple of time yesterday a little way into their half a longer throw into the corner was on, no need to worry about offside just run into the corner, we never do it. 
Sadly it's been that way for years, it's an ignored part of the game. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

I'm constantly shouting "move" at our players. 

The throw in take very rarely has any options to throw to. There are no players making any movement. There is little desire to retain possession. 

It will also be nice if our players could learn that you can't be offside from a throw in. 

[And Its Smith]

I remember when everyone laughed when Liverpool appointed a throw in coach. I was one of them. And then within a short space a time it was statistically shown how he had improved Liverpools throw ins. It does seem a weak area for a lot of teams. An under coached area maybe or harder to get right than it looks

[lenred]

2 hours ago, CityGill said:

this is not the most important thing we need to fix.

It’s not no, but it needs fixing and sharpish.  We lost a good amount of attacking situations and turned over possession yesterday because if it and it needs addressing.   As said above - you see better options in Sunday league.    

[willy bedlock]

We are far to slow , no urgency and not a lot of movement and the passing backwards is getting worse

[Charlie BCFC]

Completely agree with the fact our throw ins have been poor, will say it’s not strictly the throwers fault but our movement from them was non existent. Hence why Tanner always opted in the end to throw it back to Vyner

[MelksRed]

1 hour ago, Tammy JR said:

We are far to slow , no urgency and not a lot of movement and the passing backwards is getting worse

This is key - we look static or like asthmatic snails when we win a throw - need to get some urgency and create some options- this will not completely eradicate the issue but should improve it. 

[Red Skin]

You'd think being able to use your hands would be an advantage, but all too often it isn't.  Throw-ins can't be too much better than a 50/50 chance at retaining possession these days.  

[ZiderMeUp]

3 hours ago, Back of the Dolman said:

The ball persons really make little effort retrieving the ball or passing the ball to the thrower.

Maybe it’s just ours who are really bad but until they can achieve their primary role I wouldn’t be handing out responsibility for enforcing the laws of the game to them 

They’ve changed the rules this season,  players have to get the balls off of the cone in front of ball boys themselves.  Then the ball boy just replaces the ball on the cone.  Same at all clubs.

[Cowshed]

6 hours ago, CityGill said:

Firstly, I’d like to acknowledge that in the grand scheme of things, this is not the most important thing we need to fix. However, I have found it particularly irksome recently our inability to retain position from a throw-in or adequately defend our opponents throw ins. 

This is particularly true in advance positions, where more often than not, Tanner or Pring have to throw back to Vyner or Dickie due to lack of movement or support. I think there were 3 times yesterday, where Tanner threw the short throw and a combination of a poor return pass, or lack of control, meant we immediately lost possession.

The long throw down the line from deep also rarely gets any positive results, mainly due to our lack of physicality.

Defensively, we seem happy to let our opponents take a short throw with little pressure on the receiving player or we fail to track movement adequately. 

I am the first to admit, I am no football coach, and someone may have stats to prove that I’m completely wrong. From my point of view, we just don’t seem to be willing to take risks in advanced positions.

One other small thing, whilst I’m making a rare post…. And unfortunately we have conceded or given clear chances from this several times this season. Vyner, far too often, passes to Tanner, rather than going long or back to O’Leary, when Tanner is totally isolated. Normally he is quickly closed down, has nowhere to go and either, falls over trying to get a free kick, concedes a throw or looses possession, putting us immediately under pressure. The pass to Tanner is far to obvious and triggers an immediate  press.

Throw ins are a free pass. There are about 22 per team in a game in the championship. Multiply that by amount of games played that's hundreds of opportunities. 

Taking risks and losing the ball generally diminishes opportunity. Thrown ins that go lateral or backwards increase opportunity because statistically possession increases massively, and it is massively. A thrown in backwards to team mate is in pro football successful 99% of the time, and the team can build from this. Success drops to below 50% going forward, and that's first contact, second contact frequently also goes to the opponent. 

Edited January 21 by Cowshed

[Leveller]

28 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Throw ins are a free pass. There are about 22 per team in a game in the championship. Multiply that by amount of games played that's hundreds of opportunities. 

Taking risks and losing the ball generally diminishes opportunity. Thrown ins that go lateral or backwards increase opportunity because statistically possession increases massively, and it is massively. A thrown in backwards to team mate is in pro football successful 99% of the time, and the team can build from this. Success drops to below 50% going forward, and that's first contact, second contact frequently also goes to the opponent. 

Yet it puzzles me, since you can’t be offside, attacking throw ins rarely go into the corner like a channel ball. Defenders don’t sit back on the goal line, so there is usually space available for a well timed run. And without offside, run timing isn’t as crucial as it usually is.

[Cowshed]

2 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Yet it puzzles me, since you can’t be offside, attacking throw ins rarely go into the corner like a channel ball. Defenders don’t sit back on the goal line, so there is usually space available for a well timed run. And without offside, run timing isn’t as crucial as it usually is.

Players generally can only throw the ball accurately 18- 25 metres. Exceptional and accurate is 25 - 30 metres. Past that their called Rory. Defending teams drop and will have numerical superiority and are +1/2 to cover, and should be. Forward throws are contested. The variables favours the defending team heavily by going forwards with throws.   

[MarcusX]

9 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Yet it puzzles me, since you can’t be offside, attacking throw ins rarely go into the corner like a channel ball. Defenders don’t sit back on the goal line, so there is usually space available for a well timed run. And without offside, run timing isn’t as crucial as it usually is.

I can’t think of many situations this would actually work? Teams usually sit their defence and midfield behind a throw in, so it’d take a gigantic throw and more often than not the defence will be covered.

I actually thought recently it was nice to see us retain possession at throws. It’s been a problem for years, where we’d always try and go forward and no one would move.

No problem with a long throw backwards if it keeps the ball, but agree movement is poor more often than not 

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Throw ins are a free pass. There are about 22 per team in a game in the championship. Multiply that by amount of games played that's hundreds of opportunities. 

Taking risks and losing the ball generally diminishes opportunity. Thrown ins that go lateral or backwards increase opportunity because statistically possession increases massively, and it is massively. A thrown in backwards to team mate is in pro football successful 99% of the time, and the team can build from this. Success drops to below 50% going forward, and that's first contact, second contact frequently also goes to the opponent. 

For info.

Yesterday City had 38, 35 of which were successful (City first contact).  Of course that doesn’t help us to know what happened after the first contact…and I can’t be arsed to watch all 38.

[wendyredredrobin]

The trick with throw ins is taking them quickly before the markers get into position.  I see our players with the ball looking around and wait and wait until nobody is unmarked.  It can also be an advantage with free kicks, though some referees seem to have an aversion to that.

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

For info.

Yesterday City had 38, 35 of which were successful (City first contact).  Of course that doesn’t help us to know what happened after the first contact…and I can’t be arsed to watch all 38.

That would suggest we are very good at throw ins!  

[Back of the Dolman]

3 hours ago, ZiderMeUp said:

They’ve changed the rules this season,  players have to get the balls off of the cone in front of ball boys themselves.  Then the ball boy just replaces the ball on the cone.  Same at all clubs.

So doesn’t really speed the game up and reducing time wasting which was why I thought the multi ball system was introduced 

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

For info.

Yesterday City had 38, 35 of which were successful (City first contact).  Of course that doesn’t help us to know what happened after the first contact…and I can’t be arsed to watch all 38.

Success should be securing possession. If possession is secured - Under control that's massive.

Statsbomb will do the watching for you.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Cowshed said:

Success should be securing possession. If possession is secured - Under control that's massive.

Statsbomb will do the watching for you.

Statsbomb costs £zillions….if only.

[Mad Cyril]

3 hours ago, ZiderMeUp said:

They’ve changed the rules this season,  players have to get the balls off of the cone in front of ball boys themselves.  Then the ball boy just replaces the ball on the cone.  Same at all clubs.

I don't know if you are correct here, but if you are, other clubs get away with breaking that rule.

It is a small advantage that a team of ball boys/girls can either retrieve the ball quicker or slower depending on score, or save the energy of a knackered player retrieving a ball late in the game. 

That small advantage becomes exponential over a whole game or a whole season.

I am all for fitting an electric shock system to the chairs of our motionless ball people. Get off your arses people!!

[Davefevs]

Just a slight depression….a change to the rules.  Whoever picks up the ball (not if an opponent throws it to / at you) has to take it.

[ralphindevon]

It looked to me yesterday like Watford had highlighted our throw-ins as a weakness and a way to regain possession quite quickly.

They gave us no room and and there were always plenty of their players around the thrower. As the game went on there seemed to fewer options for the thrower, stats may prove me wrong but it certainly felt like that.