Leeds United at home match thread

[95red]

Last night ,Manning  and his sidekick observing  from the sidelines watching  their side getting  totally  outclassed  ,dumber & dumber springs to mind .

[REDOXO]

5 minutes ago, 95red said:

Last night ,Manning  and his sidekick observing  from the sidelines watching  their side getting  totally  outclassed  ,dumber & dumber springs to mind .

Dreadful. Manning should be ashamed of that. I know I am! 

[Red-Robbo]

6 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Strangely , I wasn't so worried about that. You expect that playing a good team, which they are, I was more concerned about the poor parts of our play .
We looked nervy on the ball, constantly caught in possession , poorly played and poor choice of passes and we always seem to 2nd guess a pass when we have a little time.
Agree , bit of a perfect storm, we did well to come out of it 1-0. 

Or as they old joke goes, it was one nil,  and we were lucky to get nil !

 

 

Farke had them drilled to give us zero time on the ball. Once a red shirt received a pass there was a white shirted opponent instantly on them, usually with a colleague close behind to receive the ball if it went loose. In contrast to our often stuttering forward runs, Leeds attackers had the confidence to run at our defence in a straight line often right down the centre of the pitch.  With us just backing off and off, it was only Max's presence that stopped Bamford and co simply running the ball straight into the net. 

It was indeed a "footballing lesson" and I hope Manning and our coaches can learn something from rewatching the performance, as well as our players. 

[FNQ]

22 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

It was a perfect storm: Leeds very sharp and on a winning run; City poorer than usual and looking tired. There were long sections of play where we barely touched the ball, especially in the first.

The real problems come about when we did touch the ball…

[1960maaan]

5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Farke had them drilled to give us zero time on the ball. Once a red shirt received a pass there was a white shirted opponent instantly on them, usually with a colleague close behind to receive the ball if it went loose. In contrast to our often stuttering forward runs, Leeds attackers had the confidence to run at our defence in a straight line often right down the centre of the pitch.  With us just backing off and off, it was only Max's presence that stopped Bamford and co simply running the ball straight into the net. 

It was indeed a "footballing lesson" and I hope Manning and our coaches can learn something from rewatching the performance, as well as our players. 

Funnily enough , I said in the Pub pre match that I hadn't been that impressed from the couple of Leeds games I'd seen this season . TV not live which makes a difference sometimes.
I thought Leeds were brilliant. Pace, strength , movement and confidence . Then when they wanted they could go long, and not just to Bamford . I thought they were the best team I've seen for ages.  
The press was the best I'd seen and probably caused some nerves through the team. We tend to mainly play at a slower pace, that relentless chase and harry really upset us. 

[italian dave]

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

This is an invalid argument for me. All the other teams have the same schedule. 

Except that they don’t, do they?

Starting after the Xmas/New Year games:

We had 6 matches during January. The teams we played were West Ham (who had just 3 games in January), Preston (4 games) Watford (5 games) and Forest (5 games).

And turning to February’s games:

When we met Leeds that was our 7th game since new year, their 6th. When we meet Forest again, it will be our 8th, their 7th. At Boro, it will be our 9th, their 7th. Southampton, our 10th, their 8th. And QPR our 11th and their 8th.

So, in summary, not a single one of our opponents during that period has had or will have the same schedule as us. And in some cases the schedule will have been very significantly less taxing.

And that’s before you get onto the issue of the squad sizes of most of those opponents, as @GrahamC has mentioned above.

So, you can declare my argument “invalid” all you like: I’ll stand by it unless you can give me some facts to suggest otherwise. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

A few takes from last night

Started well, but seem to lose all confidence of passing after Tanner giving the ball away on 13 minutes

Conway and Wells as set up did not work and totally lost our LHS threat

Could not understand why Knight ended up further forward than Conway when defending, surely Knight as a midfielder should have been the 1 going deep. Like knight, but not good at the front midfielder

We were better once we made the subs

Missed what Twine can offer.

We are not taking shots from outside the box, which had increased after LM first came in

Not convinced with the back 5 shape, we were no good under NP when we used it and only improved when changing to a back 4

Fatigue with playing so many games can be as much mental as physical, we seemed slow in the decision making and so many passing errors with moving the ball slower than we have been 

Leeds are in fantastic form, with 5 wins on the bounce, going to be interesting who makes up the top 2 between them and Southampton

Very disappointed with performance, as poor as we have been for some time, after a good display at Coventry

 

[Ashtongreight]

The truth is we were awful. It was men against boys. We didn’t deserve anything out of the game and we’re very lucky not to be on the end of a cricket score. I understand they have more quality than us, but I at least expect us to compete, and last night we didn’t. We need to regroup fast and start to do the simple things well. 

[Swede]

32 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

 

While I get that , what did the WHU squad cost, what did Forest pay for their squad, you can probably add Leicester & Southampton though they sold some of their best.
I'm not saying we should be rolling over Leeds, but up there we were in the game, against the teams I mentioned we were in the game and competing. 
Last night was the most "2nd best" I've seen us for a considerable time .

The cost of squad, or even the talent and work rate , even the very good pressing Leeds did, none of that excuses some of the misplaced passing and bad choices we made.

I worry , are we getting the best out of the system or to put it another way, is the system best for us?
I would say Knight doesn't look the player he did in that role and even playing more strikers is pointless if they rarely get the ball in good areas , let alone if we're making chances.

I worry that they are playing too much in their heads. When we have time on the ball, and see a runner,  see a pass , several times whoever it is will turn away wave an apology and pass it short. 
Bell had the ideal opportunity for a cross behind a retreating defence but cut back again. Watching Leeds move the ball at pace with runners through the team, that is nothing like what we are are watching . We are playing the slower Man City game, which is fine if you can keep and dominate the ball like that, but they still have movement to give options .

I worry that we seem to start well in games, create (and miss) a chance of half chance , then slowly start to settle .
The start of the 2nd half continues to be our most dangerous period. I think the goal last night was the 6th time we have conceded in the 45-60 minute mark under Manning . But we continue to look frail in that period, not sure what the half time team talk is , but it needs changing.

I worry if we continue with the same players in the same roles in the same system, the season will (at best) just peter out into a mid table none event. 

We are either relying on a young unproven kid, or a loan player who has had just 90 minutes for us , to turn the season around. Or , the coach produces something out of the hat. 
I said a while ago that February will be the time for judgement , not started well .

Actually I beg to differ, I think the way Leeds pressured us, the precise crispness of their passing, their movement and quick thinking was the contributory factors in the misplaced passing, slow thought process, distribution and passive play by our players. It was like they were from a higher league and effectively they are with the value of their squad. Unlike us they won't be hampered by FFP because they won't be in this league long enough.

Forest were missing quite a few players and West Ham were the same so we took advantage, rode our luck a bit and got results with our 15 man squad. Anyone who thinks differently really need a reality check.

Realistically we competed as well as we could when given the opportunity. I don't think we can fault our players at all because the same players played extremely well at Coventry in the previous game and were unlucky not to get the win at a much fancied side.

I too take your point re LM's half time team talk and whilst he impacted the match with the subs that improved us, we were caught out by what I thought at the time was an overhit Leeds pass and that first period after half time remains a vulnerable time for us.

The coach is learning. We are a mid table side. Its yet another reboot. Stay positive 

[italian dave]

58 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

 

While I get that , what did the WHU squad cost, what did Forest pay for their squad, you can probably add Leicester & Southampton though they sold some of their best.
I'm not saying we should be rolling over Leeds, but up there we were in the game, against the teams I mentioned we were in the game and competing. 
Last night was the most "2nd best" I've seen us for a considerable time .

The cost of squad, or even the talent and work rate , even the very good pressing Leeds did, none of that excuses some of the misplaced passing and bad choices we made.

I worry , are we getting the best out of the system or to put it another way, is the system best for us?
I would say Knight doesn't look the player he did in that role and even playing more strikers is pointless if they rarely get the ball in good areas , let alone if we're making chances.

I worry that they are playing too much in their heads. When we have time on the ball, and see a runner,  see a pass , several times whoever it is will turn away wave an apology and pass it short. 
Bell had the ideal opportunity for a cross behind a retreating defence but cut back again. Watching Leeds move the ball at pace with runners through the team, that is nothing like what we are are watching . We are playing the slower Man City game, which is fine if you can keep and dominate the ball like that, but they still have movement to give options .

I worry that we seem to start well in games, create (and miss) a chance of half chance , then slowly start to settle .
The start of the 2nd half continues to be our most dangerous period. I think the goal last night was the 6th time we have conceded in the 45-60 minute mark under Manning . But we continue to look frail in that period, not sure what the half time team talk is , but it needs changing.

I worry if we continue with the same players in the same roles in the same system, the season will (at best) just peter out into a mid table none event. 

We are either relying on a young unproven kid, or a loan player who has had just 90 minutes for us , to turn the season around. Or , the coach produces something out of the hat. 
I said a while ago that February will be the time for judgement , not started well .

I think maybe your first paragraph is the point. We’ve had three matches against PL sides and haven’t looked outclassed.

Last night was just one of those nights. We met a very good Leeds side, who are in a fantastic run and who played some wonderful football. We managed to chose that night for a good number of our players to have their worst individual performances for weeks. It happens. 

I hope that’s all it was, anyway . We won’t have to wait too long to find out! 

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Swede said:

Actually I beg to differ, I think the way Leeds pressured us, the precise crispness of their passing, their movement and quick thinking was the contributory factors in the misplaced passing, slow thought process, distribution and passive play by our players. It was like they were from a higher league and effectively they are with the value of their squad. Unlike us they won't be hampered by FFP because they won't be in this league long enough.

I get that, and I did think that before posting, but it's not the only game we have made so many basic passing errors. There have been plenty of times in League games, where we struggle with a simple 5 yard pass, been caught in possession or made bad choices. Last night exaggerated it because they were very good, but it's not just down to them. 
We have looked good at times playing quicker, but it seems they are so concentrated on keeping possession any flowing football is out of the window. 

[Ashtongreight]

18 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

A few takes from last night

Started well, but seem to lose all confidence of passing after Tanner giving the ball away on 13 minutes

Conway and Wells as set up did not work and totally lost our LHS threat

Could not understand why Knight ended up further forward than Conway when defending, surely Knight as a midfielder should have been the 1 going deep. Like knight, but not good at the front midfielder

We were better once we made the subs

Missed what Twine can offer.

We are not taking shots from outside the box, which had increased after LM first came in

Not convinced with the back 5 shape, we were no good under NP when we used it and only improved when changing to a back 4

Fatigue with playing so many games can be as much mental as physical, we seemed slow in the decision making and so many passing errors with moving the ball slower than we have been 

Leeds are in fantastic form, with 5 wins on the bounce, going to be interesting who makes up the top 2 between them and Southampton

Very disappointed with performance, as poor as we have been for some time, after a good display at Coventry

 

To me I found the formation baffling, it just seemed like we put out our best 11,  many of them weren’t playing in their best positions, players just shoehorned into positions that they aren’t used to, and not playing to their strengths. Rather than choosing a formation and fitting players into unfamiliar roles we need to start choosing a formation that allows our players to play to their strengths.

[Hamdon Mart]

11 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I think it was 25,400 and either 2500 or 2900 from Leeds. Looking at them I'd say the latter.

Hi, thanks for the info.

Discovered the announced attendance was 25,429 with 2,982 away fans. 

Edited February 3 by Hamdon Mart

[JP Hampton]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

 

While I get that , what did the WHU squad cost, what did Forest pay for their squad, you can probably add Leicester & Southampton though they sold some of their best.
I'm not saying we should be rolling over Leeds, but up there we were in the game, against the teams I mentioned we were in the game and competing. 
Last night was the most "2nd best" I've seen us for a considerable time .

The cost of squad, or even the talent and work rate , even the very good pressing Leeds did, none of that excuses some of the misplaced passing and bad choices we made.

I worry , are we getting the best out of the system or to put it another way, is the system best for us?
I would say Knight doesn't look the player he did in that role and even playing more strikers is pointless if they rarely get the ball in good areas , let alone if we're making chances.

I worry that they are playing too much in their heads. When we have time on the ball, and see a runner,  see a pass , several times whoever it is will turn away wave an apology and pass it short. 
Bell had the ideal opportunity for a cross behind a retreating defence but cut back again. Watching Leeds move the ball at pace with runners through the team, that is nothing like what we are are watching . We are playing the slower Man City game, which is fine if you can keep and dominate the ball like that, but they still have movement to give options .

I worry that we seem to start well in games, create (and miss) a chance of half chance , then slowly start to settle .
The start of the 2nd half continues to be our most dangerous period. I think the goal last night was the 6th time we have conceded in the 45-60 minute mark under Manning . But we continue to look frail in that period, not sure what the half time team talk is , but it needs changing.

I worry if we continue with the same players in the same roles in the same system, the season will (at best) just peter out into a mid table none event. 

We are either relying on a young unproven kid, or a loan player who has had just 90 minutes for us , to turn the season around. Or , the coach produces something out of the hat. 
I said a while ago that February will be the time for judgement , not started well .

I actually wouldn’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. I’ve said the same in other posts. I don’t believe it’s all down to the value of each team but it’s certainly a factor. 
 

 I’ve said in many posts that Manning seems to apply a plan A strategy to the players and expects them to function within it. NP (date I mention his name without being pelted) actually did the opposite, he applied his players to the roles they were best suited to. And was actually getting the best out of them most of the time. 
  I think this is born out by several players, you mentioned Knight, definitely not performing as they were previously and over thought strategies, which don’t/can’t adapt with (any opponents) changing play.
 

 I think we have some very talented players, the key is getting the best out of them and tbf we’ve previously seen more fight and some great passing, than in last night’s game, where I think you’d be hard pressed to pick anyone out who did anything worth remembering. Oh yes, there was someone, the one that some were calling a clown, our keeper!

[Street red]

 The problem with us is the quality of our players and that one quality is thought process we are not up to the standard of Leeds they have players that just play without even blinking pass move give and go if you noticed vyner and dickie last night with the ball at there feet it's slow motion almost like they take a few seconds look up and give the ball. Our players just couldn't get to grips to what they had to do Conway was getting very frustrated players arguing.Manning wants us to play this passing game but unfortunately I don't think we have the players to produce it consistently everything Pearson said about. We play the game but at very slower thought process than teams like Leeds Southampton and Leicester we are a far cry from these teams and the way tinnion and manning want us to play isn't going to get us up we need to have a couple of different ways to play due to the standard of players we have and thats why our passing game is slower to watch almost frustrating at times. IE Alex Scott his thought process and reading of the game is exceptional.

Edited February 3 by Street red

[JP Hampton]

11 hours ago, 2015 said:

Lastly, the club wants players with the 'right' attitudes to come in. Fine, they can be nice lads for sure, but I would like to see ultra competitive players and players with desire in our team which Leeds also had in abundance tonight compared to our rather passive Footballers.

I just don't think we'll ever kick on with the current set up at the club.

  Clearly you’ll get some who are more competitive than others, but I’d be extremely surprised at this level of the game, if most of the players aren’t ultra competitive. 
  One because of where they’ve been, they’ll have had to be competitive to get here and two because of the relatively short career they know they have and third because they’re always fighting to keep their place. Most top athletes are highly competitive. 
  The key to use and manage that competitiveness, is part of what makes a good manager and while I wouldn’t say we’re never competitive, because we’ve seen that this team is, they definitely weren’t last night. 

[Swede]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I get that, and I did think that before posting, but it's not the only game we have made so many basic passing errors. There have been plenty of times in League games, where we struggle with a simple 5 yard pass, been caught in possession or made bad choices. Last night exaggerated it because they were very good, but it's not just down to them. 
We have looked good at times playing quicker, but it seems they are so concentrated on keeping possession any flowing football is out of the window. 

Yes, I agree. My thoughts are that through the change in direction coaching wise we are moving towards that posession based style but with it we need to recruit that type of player as well that's why the there seems to be  focus on the defensive midfield which needs to be more dynamic to compete. Its no surprise that King, Williams & James are mentioned quite a lot as they have all of the experience and knowhow but what they lack now is legs and longevity. I think the club are looking to revamp and freshen that up.

I agree that the free flowing football isn't there and it makes for a hard watch sometimes but we are a work in progress (again).

Pearson, with all of his experience got the club back on its feet and there was an opportunity to use the Bournemouth war chest of money to re invest in quality and go for it short term but the hierarchy baulked & changed tactics and are now only reinvesting a portion of that war chest and looking more long term. 

Its frustrating at times but the recent transfer dealings are positive and we all have to be optimistic that we are moving in the right direction (slowly)

[italian dave]

I’ve not read the whole thread, but have seen little or no mention of the officials last night. Generally, that would be a good sign. They seemed amongst the better this season to me. 

[Ska Junkie]

Let's be honest here, we played midweek, Leeds didn't and a rested Leeds are clearly a very, very good side.

We now know the levels we need to aspire to.

For me, it's a case of saying 'well played Leeds' tbh. The way our 3 centre halves were exposed to pace was brutally good.

Edited February 3 by Ska Junkie

[transfer reader]

16 hours ago, Ecko said:

Do you honestly think we're moving in the right direction? Really?

Broadly, yes.

Last night's performance was a large backwards step, but that happens.

[Ashtongreight]

9 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Broadly, yes.

Last night's performance was a large backwards step, but that happens.

I envy you, I can’t see it personally, maybe I’m just being negative after last nights performance, but at the moment it feels they exposed how weak we really are, it felt like a wake up call.

[Wanderingred]

On 03/02/2024 at 00:39, ChippenhamRed said:

One of the absolute worst posts I’ve ever read on here. A complete embarrassment of utter nonsense from start to finish.

Enjoy the game @SPAZZA - you deserve to win after putting up with that!

I made the effort to come on here and apologise to Spazza for stepping out of line. Are you going to do the same to me for this vile post ?

[ChippenhamRed]

4 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

I made the effort to come on here and apologise to Spazza for stepping out of line. Are you going to do the same to me for this vile post ?

I wasn’t personally offensive towards you, I was highly critical of your post. I played the ball not the man.

You accused a fellow football supporter of “lacking loyalty” to his club because he couldn’t get a ticket for the away end. THAT was personal, needless, and showed a complete lack of understanding of the difficulty in getting away tickets if you follow a big club with a large fanbase and don’t have a season ticket.

You knew nothing of his personal circumstances, which for all of us dictate just how “loyal” we can be to our club. It crosses a line to judge other fans loyalty to the their club with no knowledge of their situation.

Credit to you for since apologising to him. But at the time of my post, you hadn’t done that. You chose to log onto the forum and post a very forthright opinion on another football supporter, and got very forthright opinions in response - and not just from me either.

[City oz]

On 03/02/2024 at 07:19, blockbrowt1 said:

Top 6 squad JL? Not on tonight's performance, think deluded is the word.

Totally agree. I just watched the extended highlights, ok Leeds were good and looked very sharp. Most probably one of the best away teams at BS3 this season. Having said that we are strides behind Leeds in many aspects. Going down 1-0 against a team that most probably will get automatic promotion this season we are still miles behind where we should be with our new “manager” sorry Liam mate I think you have either promised a lie or finally realised you have bitten off more than you can chew.

Our performance I would say is ok at a mid table championship level only. Ok FA cup run potentially would be good but with the league same old crap and inconsistent performances which lets the die hard curt fans around the world disappointed ( and yes there are quite a few of us) but most importantly the city fans that attend week in and week out and travel away deserve far better.

 

 

 

 

. 

[FNQ]

26 minutes ago, City oz said:

Totally agree. I just watched the extended highlights, ok Leeds were good and looked very sharp. Most probably one of the best away teams at BS3 this season. Having said that we are strides behind Leeds in many aspects. Going down 1-0 against a team that most probably will get automatic promotion this season we are still miles behind where we should be with our new “manager” sorry Liam mate I think you have either promised a lie or finally realised you have bitten off more than you can chew.

Our performance I would say is ok at a mid table championship level only. Ok FA cup run potentially would be good but with the league same old crap and inconsistent performances which lets the die hard curt fans around the world disappointed ( and yes there are quite a few of us) but most importantly the city fans that attend week in and week out and travel away deserve far better.

 

 

 

 

. 

The extended highlights were quite flattering to be honest.. If you’ve got access to Bein Sports watch the full ninety.. it’s harrowing.

[City oz]

55 minutes ago, FNQ said:

The extended highlights were quite flattering to be honest.. If you’ve got access to Bein Sports watch the full ninety.. it’s harrowing.

I watched it. Be in sports in OZ is great. We were poor. Tried but not good enough. It’s still COYReds for me but I have decided not to look at any football for the next six months as me and the wife are going to travel around OZ. I hope when I do look at where we are at in about six months I will be pleasantly surprised. I’m back in the UK for six weeks late July to early September so have decided not to look at this great forum or look at football results for six months. I need to keep my blood pressure under control. I sometimes wish that Nige was still with us  

[Wanderingred]

4 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I wasn’t personally offensive towards you, I was highly critical of your post. I played the ball not the man.

You accused a fellow football supporter of “lacking loyalty” to his club because he couldn’t get a ticket for the away end. THAT was personal, needless, and showed a complete lack of understanding of the difficulty in getting away tickets if you follow a big club with a large fanbase and don’t have a season ticket.

You knew nothing of his personal circumstances, which for all of us dictate just how “loyal” we can be to our club. It crosses a line to judge other fans loyalty to the their club with no knowledge of their situation.

Credit to you for since apologising to him. But at the time of my post, you hadn’t done that. You chose to log onto the forum and post a very forthright opinion on another football supporter, and got very forthright opinions in response - and not just from me either.

Yeah I messed up the other day, but criticizing a fan for sitting in the home end (which by the way is against the stadium rules) is hardly the worst crime ever committed on this forum and doesn’t warrant a nasty response like that. Sure, other people called me out, but unlike yourself, they did so respectfully, none more than Spazza himself who actually educated me a lot about the number of away season ticket holders Leeds have. I was unaware such a system actually existed, and would have thought that a Friday night TV fixture wouldn’t have been too tough to get an away ticket for. Add that with a bit of alcohol and general dislike of Leeds and yeah I was a little below the belt, for sure. 

But so were you and your post absolutely WAS offensive. There was no critique of my remarks, it was nothing more than a mish mash of adjectives and superlatives used for mocking and belittlement.

If you won’t apologise then please consider the language you use in the future. This isn’t the first incident, I find that you regularly talk down to other forum members and try to make them feel small.

Edited February 4 by Wanderingred