5 wins in 18 games….dreadful!

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

No it's 100% not what those clowns promised, but we knew that was bollocks at the time, so you can't use it as a stick to beat Manning with. He's just trying to do his job.

Maybe not.   But I did and I continue to expect us to be top 10 this season.   So if that isn’t achieved (and it wont be at this rate) then that will be on Manning.  And the style of football that we are playing is very much down to him also. So again he will be judged on that.   Let’s hope there’s an upturn soon.  

[Sheltons Army]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

We had a post crossover and my previous post kind of responded to what you're saying here. I've seen a lot of overreaction, which is classic OTIB. 

The Conway value thing I think ridiculous. Fevs is a forum legend and knows more about football that me, but we were struggling in the final third prior to Manning coming in. We've got no evidence that Conway would have scored more goals if NP was still manager, and we never accused NP of devaluing Bell when his form dropped off. 

I find it funny because it feels like people already clutching at any stick to beat the current gaffer with.

The TC , You see  , I think it’s anything but ‘ridiculous’

It’s only one subject , but , His value whether on the pitch for us whilst he’s ours and his potential value if we were looking to sell are both really important , IMO , for us as a club

No one can prove whether he would have fared better ie more goals under NP (I personallybelieve he absolutely would) but I’m absolutely of the belief that playing him wide on the left or isolated without service is certainly not getting the best from him either on the pitch or in any potential valuation.

He is , or should be one of our biggest assets , if not the biggest and we should be looking to maximise what he brings

 

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Cup runs can spur Championship sides on.

Not us it seems but they can..

See Burnley 2008-09, pre Parachure Payments..had a very similar run to us and won the playoffs.

Think WBA won the League after reaching the FA Cup semi finals in 2008?

Blackburn last year, they went quite far in the Cup, were in the race for the playoffs a game or 2 from the end.

Oh they can, it seems to be a hindrance for us, and I believe that could be due to lack of depth on our part

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

Oh they can, it seems to be a hindrance for us, and I believe that could be due to lack of depth on our part

Not sure Burnley had the deepest squad that year but exception v rule etc.

Certainly in the here and now..reaching the playoffs in 2017-18 or 2018-19 with all of the accumulated big to decent level Cup experience between 2013-14 and 2018-19..would have been our best ever chance in the playoffs.

[Sheltons Army]

13 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

The fatigued point is a good one and well made, something that's not talked about enough,

No doubt the cup run has made money, but its peanuts compared to getting into the play offs 

We weren’t getting in the play off picture with or without a cup run Monkeh

Be glad for the extra £££ and a bit of feel good !

[mozo]

20 minutes ago, lenred said:

Maybe not.   But I did and I continue to expect us to be top 10 this season.   So if that isn’t achieved (and it wont be at this rate) then that will be on Manning.  And the style of football that we are playing is very much down to him also. So again he will be judged on that.   Let’s hope there’s an upturn soon.  

Fair enough 

19 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

The TC , You see  , I think it’s anything but ‘ridiculous’

It’s only one subject , but , His value whether on the pitch for us whilst he’s ours and his potential value if we were looking to sell are both really important , IMO , for us as a club

No one can prove whether he would have fared better ie more goals under NP (I personallybelieve he absolutely would) but I’m absolutely of the belief that playing him wide on the left or isolated without service is certainly not getting the best from him either on the pitch or in any potential valuation.

He is , or should be one of our biggest assets , if not the biggest and we should be looking to maximise what he brings

 

Well let's not forget that Manning et al identified our lack of creativity and signed Twine only to get the usual bad luck of an injury. So we've got evidence of an attempt to rectify that.

Edited February 4 by mozo

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

The Conway value thing I think ridiculous. Fevs is a forum legend and knows more about football that me, but we were struggling in the final third prior to Manning coming in. We've got no evidence that Conway would have scored more goals if NP was still manager, and we never accused NP of devaluing Bell when his form dropped off. 

Why is it ridiculous?  Why does the argument need to reference Nigel Pearson?

This is a Liam Manning debate…about the impact on Tommy Conway under his set-up.

Conway has a proven scoring record in his relative short career, particularly benefitting off of a) quick-ball and b) teammates getting to / near the byline and delivering into that area where Conway finishes well.

We have a head-coach who after 2 games here acknowledged that he needed to work on patterns to create those types of chances for TC, whilst also trying to develop his “short game”.

A few games later having not found a way to service Tommy like he said he would work-on, he’s then saying Tommy is gonna have to get used to working off different chances.  That’s fair enough in one regard, but an early marker for me of paying a bit of “lip-service” to being able to adapt to what resources he has.  And re “short game” what improvements have we seen there that trade-off to the chances bit?  None really.

The less goals Tommy scores, the less he is worth.  That’s a simple hypothesis.

The less goals Tommy scores, together with his increased frustrations at lack of service, the less chance he has of staying.  That’s a simple hypothesis too.  The counter is that nobody else wants him, but we have less effective player in our ranks.

I’d finished posting before I read your Twine comment.  We will have to wait and see.  Twine is unlikely to service Conway in the cutback type chance, but maybe he will.

+++++

If you want to bring Sam Bell into, go and read my countless posts where I was critical of the way Nige played our front three.

Bell is in a completely different ball-park value to Conway.  Imho you’re comparing Ashton Gate ball-park to the Mem ball-park!

+++++

Headline: Forum Legend and Ring-leader of The Cult of Nige criticises Nige. You’d be surprised how many times I have, but some are so busy creating Anti-Nige or Nige v Liam debates, I’m not surprised they’ve been overlooked!

Edited February 4 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

No it's 100% not what those clowns promised, but we knew that was bollocks at the time, so you can't use it as a stick to beat Manning with. He's just trying to do his job.

And objectively, as it currently stands, he’s not doing it quite as good as I wanted or expected against what I thought were reasonable expectations on my behalf.

I think many posters, myself included are judging Manning on Manning, not on what the board said.  Who genuinely of posters you might have a smidge of respect for and judging him on top 6 for example?  If I was judging him on top 6, I’d probably be looking for his likely replacement!

 

[Silvio Dante]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Headline: Forum Legend and Ring-leader of The Cult of Nige criticises Nige. You’d be surprised how many times I have, but some are so busy creating Anti-Nige or Nige v Liam debates, I’m not surprised they’ve been overlooked!

Been on the Ian Gay pills Dave?

[Natchfever]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And objectively, as it currently stands, he’s not doing it quite as good as I wanted or expected against what I thought were reasonable expectations on my behalf.

I think many posters, myself included are judging Manning on Manning, not on what the board said.  Who genuinely of posters you might have a smidge of respect for and judging him on top 6 for example?  If I was judging him on top 6, I’d probably be looking for his likely replacement!

 

Exactly Dave.

Ignore how Manning was recruited or who he suceeded. He was offered the job, accepted, and inherited a squad of ok quality which he is expected to get more from than his predecessor.

He isnt doing that at present and for all the "drills" the players are doing during matches , we appear to have gone backwards, and of prime interest to Lansdown senior should be the diminishing value of his next nest egg boost.

Not impressed. Over Pearson. Neither are connected.

Edited February 4 by Natchfever

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Been on the Ian Gay pills Dave?

Just using @mozo’s label.

Although I did used to be 6’2” and liked a tackle.  Actually that’s wrong, I’d rather stand my centre-forward opponent up and make him play the way he was facing!

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just using @mozo’s label.

Although I did used to be 6’2” and liked a tackle.  Actually that’s wrong, I’d rather stand my centre-forward opponent up and make him play the way he was facing!

What happened?!?

Or is it like me where I tell my kids I played centre half and was 6 foot figure but only now I’ve retired admit to being 5 foot 11.

Its why my assistant coach is always shorter than me.

[Sheltons Army]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just using @mozo’s label.

Although I did used to be 6’2” and liked a tackle.  Actually that’s wrong, I’d rather stand my centre-forward opponent up and make him play the way he was facing!

‘Head on a stick’  is what I heard 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

What happened?!?

Or is it like me where I tell my kids I played centre half and was 6 foot figure but only now I’ve retired admit to being 5 foot 11.

Its why my assistant coach is always shorter than me.

I’ve shrunk!  Bad posture, sat on the sofa reading OTIB!  Now about 6’1”.

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Why is it ridiculous?  Why does the argument need to reference Nigel Pearson?

This is a Liam Manning debate…about the impact on Tommy Conway under his set-up.

Conway has a proven scoring record in his relative short career, particularly benefitting off of a) quick-ball and b) teammates getting to / near the byline and delivering into that area where Conway finishes well.

We have a head-coach who after 2 games here acknowledged that he needed to work on patterns to create those types of chances for TC, whilst also trying to develop his “short game”.

A few games later having not found a way to service Tommy like he said he would work-on, he’s then saying Tommy is gonna have to get used to working off different chances.  That’s fair enough in one regard, but an early marker for me of paying a bit of “lip-service” to being able to adapt to what resources he has.  And re “short game” what improvements have we seen there that trade-off to the chances bit?  None really.

The less goals Tommy scores, the less he is worth.  That’s a simple hypothesis.

The less goals Tommy scores, together with his increased frustrations at lack of service, the less chance he has of staying.  That’s a simple hypothesis too.  The counter is that nobody else wants him, but we have less effective player in our ranks.

I’d finished posting before I read your Twine comment.  We will have to wait and see.  Twine is unlikely to service Conway in the cutback type chance, but maybe he will.

+++++

If you want to bring Sam Bell into, go and read my countless posts where I was critical of the way Nige played our front three.

Bell is in a completely different ball-park value to Conway.  Imho you’re comparing Ashton Gate ball-park to the Mem ball-park!

+++++

Headline: Forum Legend and Ring-leader of The Cult of Nige criticises Nige. You’d be surprised how many times I have, but some are so busy creating Anti-Nige or Nige v Liam debates, I’m not surprised they’ve been overlooked!

Mate honestly, I just don't get this Manning is devaluing Conway thing. Imo the biggest thing holding us back is a lack ability combined with fatigue. Imo we get into dangerous areas all the time but our lads lose their heads and choose the wrong option or fail to deliver (to Tommy). City under Manning have no trouble penetrating the opposition midfield but, just as we saw under Nige, we don't have the creative spark or killer instinct... on a consistent basis. Imo Manning can't put his boots on and do it for them.

And if we put the issue of imo obvious fatigue to one side and just look at tactics... what is he to do with Cornick, Mehmeti, Bell and Wells? What formation/style suits a combination of these players to turbo charge a top 6 assault? (I'm deliberately excluding Sykes and Twine because Manning hasn't had the luxury of them playing.)

That's not me saying those 4 players are shit, I'm just saying they're a hodge podge of player types that don't really go together. 

So when we talk about Manning underperforming or devaluing players, it has to be in the context of the tools at his disposal (imo a bunch of knackered misfits).

There's the other thread on which the majority want us to revert to a front 3, but I don't think I've seen any suggestions of what lethal front 3 partnership Manning could have actually selected, in the absence of Sykes. 

On the Leeds match day thread we had a host of posts about how finally Manning had figured out that Wells and Conway needed to play together. It didn't make a jot of difference. 

There is a lot of criticism about the outcome (points haul), and still a strong emotional connection to things from the past, but I'm not seeing any (sensible) examples of what options were available to Manning that he didn't take.

Not changing formation, or making subs too late, versus Leeds is fair criticism, but we were pretty doomed in that game anyway. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

59 minutes ago, mozo said:

There's the other thread on which the majority want us to revert to a front 3, but I don't think I've seen any suggestions of what lethal front 3 partnership Manning could have actually selected, in the absence of Sykes.

                   O'Leary

Tanner/McCrorie Vyner Dickie Pring

        . TGH Williams/James

  Bell            Knight        Mehmeti 

                   Conway

Far from brilliant with all the absentees but at the same time more cohesive probably. Possibly a bit more secure too.

Edited February 4 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sturny]

Well maybe this is just another rebuilding year? Maybe next year we come out good? Maybe rainbows shoot out my ass? Who tf knows with this club 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

Mate honestly, I just don't get this Manning is devaluing Conway thing. Imo the biggest thing holding us back is a lack ability combined with fatigue. Imo we get into dangerous areas all the time but our lads lose their heads and choose the wrong option or fail to deliver (to Tommy). City under Manning have no trouble penetrating the opposition midfield but

imho that’s exactly the problem we DO have…we don’t penetrate the midfield, we go around the outside until hitting the final third, then can’t go inside.  That’s a generalisation.  We don’t play through the middle of the pitch at all.  The closest we do to doing it is when Knight moves into the right half-space and receives from TGH / MJ / JW but is rolling out to the right wing.  That was our source v Coventry, but it wasn’t through the centre of the pitch.

McCrorie’s “out-to-in” pass to Conway to create for Mehmeti on Friday was a fairly rare occurrence.

, just as we saw under Nige, we don't have the creative spark or killer instinct... on a consistent basis. Imo Manning can't put his boots on and do it for them.

Correct, hence why Nige didn’t try to play the type of game LM is trying to.  Nige was about creating chances through fast paced attacks in the main…trying to get chances against unstructured defences.

If you’ve ever done training sessions of attack v defence on a half-pitch (old school), you’ll know how hard it is to break through a set-defence.  That is why (imho) we are suffering difficulty in creating open play chances.

And if we put the issue of imo obvious fatigue to one side and just look at tactics...

why are we setting it aside.  In the main Manning has rotated more efficiently than Nige, has had better player availability, so if I was being churlish, I’d say Manning should be less impacted.  Yes?

what is he to do with Cornick, Mehmeti, Bell and Wells? What formation/style suits a combination of these players to turbo charge a top 6 assault? (I'm deliberately excluding Sykes and Twine because Manning hasn't had the luxury of them playing.)

Dunno really, depends what’s behind them.  But I would like him to play Twine as a central 10, not a left 10.

That's not me saying those 4 players are shit, I'm just saying they're a hodge podge of player types that don't really go together. 

So when we talk about Manning underperforming or devaluing players, it has to be in the context of the tools at his disposal (imo a bunch of knackered misfits).

he has more tools (available players) than Nige did.

There's the other thread on which the majority want us to revert to a front 3, but I don't think I've seen any suggestions of what lethal front 3 partnership Manning could have actually selected, in the absence of Sykes.

that’s all about individual opinions.  I’m judging on what Manning has done / what he’s selected.  

On the Leeds match day thread we had a host of posts about how finally Manning had figured out that Wells and Conway needed to play together. It didn't make a jot of difference.

Make your own views, don’t listen to the MDT.  Conway and Wells played in the same starting eleven, but did they “play together”?  On the flipside I’m not judging on Leeds along  I’m judging on a general trend.

There is a lot of criticism about the outcome (points haul), and still a strong emotional connection to things from the past, but I'm not seeing any (sensible) examples of what options were available to Manning that he didn't take.

That’s because points is an easy comparison.  What do you expect?

Not changing formation, or making subs too late, versus Leeds is fair criticism, but we were pretty doomed in that game anyway.

why at 0-1 were we doomed?  

Comments above.  

I think you are making excuses for Manning.  I think you’re trying to make it about Pearson as a defence.

If you think it’s fine under him, great, explain why, don’t keep dragging it into a Nige v Liam debate.

I think you’re misconstruing my thoughts as being anti-Manning (because I was a fan of Nige).  I’m not.  I’m merely responding to what I’ve witnessed under LM.  If you think I’m missing something, say so, but to keep trying to frame mine and others views because I liked Nige is getting tiring.  If this was 3 games in, yes, that would be wrong, but it’s 18 games.  It’s more than enough to spot trends.  It’s also fine that I say that I’ll keep observing and might change as I see different things.  I’m looking forward to seeing how he plays Twine, likewise  Sykes.  But neither will I make blind claims that they will solve all the problems.  That’s without basis, other than them being good players and their return ought to strengthen the squad.

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

8 hours ago, mozo said:

And... cup runs are important a/ for the revenue, b/ for the fun factor (I'm sure if City somehow get that game Man U you'll show some interest).

We're not closer to the playoffs, we're about a point further away, but we weren't ever going to get in the playoffs anyway. 

I think players are probably fatigued with what has been a punishing schedule. If you think something more sinister is going on, that's fine. Let's see how it plays out.

Fact is, we can't reinstate Nige, we can't change the fact that the board talk bollocks, we can't change the appointment of Manning, and whether you like it or not, Manning is 99% gonna be our head coach next season, and neither you or me know how that is gonna play out.

The cup run has somewhat given Manning some credit in the bank. Without that then people would be very much more focused on us not winning since boxing day. Performances in the FA Cup are largely irrelevant because that's what the FA Cup is all about. What the Fa Cup has shown me is that pur strengths is our collective spirit and playing on the transitions. Playing on the emotions. 

LJ led us to cup wins against the likes of Stoke, Palace and Man United and oversaw decent performances against Man City, he's recently been sacked by Fleetwood. So I'm really not sure that your claims that LM is not out of his depth because of the results against Forest and West Ham stack up.

Last season we finished 11 points off 5th 10 off 6th. This season we are currently 10 points off 5th and 7 points off 6th with both those teams having a game in hand over us. We're on course for a much worse finish than last season and that's with better players and better player availability. 

I think most of our fans expected a 6th-10th place finish this season. When you add in the claims that Manning was brought in to make us challenging this season then this season is turning into a disaster. 

I think the vast majority of teams are fatigued so that's an irrelevant point. It's the same punishing schedule for us all.

[mozo]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

                   O'Leary

Tanner/McCrorie Vyner Dickie Pring

        . TGH Williams/James

  Bell            Knight        Mehmeti 

                   Conway

Far from brilliant with all the absentees but at the same time more cohesive probably. Possibly a bit more secure too.

I think the general consensus is that Bell and Mehmeti aren't good enough for this level, but you might see it differently 

8 hours ago, Sturny said:

Well maybe this is just another rebuilding year? Maybe next year we come out good? Maybe rainbows shoot out my ass? Who tf knows with this club 

Yeah who effing knows, but I'm open minded enough that next season might be better than this one (I think that every year...)

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Comments above.  

I think you are making excuses for Manning.  I think you’re trying to make it about Pearson as a defence.

If you think it’s fine under him, great, explain why, don’t keep dragging it into a Nige v Liam debate.

I think you’re misconstruing my thoughts as being anti-Manning (because I was a fan of Nige).  I’m not.  I’m merely responding to what I’ve witnessed under LM.  If you think I’m missing something, say so, but to keep trying to frame mine and others views because I liked Nige is getting tiring.  If this was 3 games in, yes, that would be wrong, but it’s 18 games.  It’s more than enough to spot trends.  It’s also fine that I say that I’ll keep observing and might change as I see different things.  I’m looking forward to seeing how he plays Twine, likewise  Sykes.  But neither will I make blind claims that they will solve all the problems.  That’s without basis, other than them being good players and their return ought to strengthen the squad.

 

 

In the main, I'm trying to highlight NP examples whereby they illustrate that something isn't a problem caused by LM, but were pre-existing.

I'm Manning agnostic at the moment. I'd always hope that a new boss can come in and hit the ground running but I'm open to the fact that sometimes it takes time.

 

 

[Major Isewater]

I fear we all know what will happen.

In the summer , after landing the players Manning wants and after a good preseason where they bed in and we thrash Mangotsfield Utd, Rochdale and Forest Green Rovers it will all go tits up and LM will be replaced by someone who will equally struggle to balance the wishes of the club and the reality. 
Rinse and repeat. 
 

[Numero Uno]

13 hours ago, lenred said:

He will of course get more time.  Probably a lot more time.   But I think we have seen enough now to be able to start to form an opinion which, very much of course, may well alter over further time.   My opinion now is what we are being served up is not anywhere near what we were promised by the clowns at the top.  That it’s not front foot football. That our players have not improved one iota due to more ‘time on the grass’ (if anything some key players have regressed) and as aforementioned we look toothless in the main.  I very much hope we can get some joy at the City Ground on Weds night and hoping the late night will be worth it for all of us going up there, but the cup cannot detract from the bread and butter of the League, and that form needs to improve rapidly.  

Exactly. Liam has had some good games and some poor ones so far, a real mixed bag. The one consistent element, however, is we certainly haven't been playing FRONT FOOT FOOTBALL. Anyone who says that is talking utter bollocks and in denial. Friday was actually the complete opposite.....it was back foot "try and survive for a 0-0" football..........AT HOME. That performance took me back two years and there are no excuses for that when the squad we have is not even close to being as poor, any more, to justify getting so comprehensively out-thought, out-muscled and outplayed. Similarly with individual players some have improved (e.g. Tanner), some have not really changed at all (e.g. Max) and others have regressed alarmingly such as Sam Bell and, I would argue albeit less alarmingly, even Conway. Again, a really mixed bag that is bordering at the lower end of achievement generally.

I hope for you that you get to see a decent game on Wednesday but personally I couldn't give a toss about what happens at the City Ground and whether we win and get destroyed by an improving Man Utd in the next round and that's the truth. Six weeks without a win in the league, our bread and butter, has seen to that I'm afraid. Manning needs to sort out our league form very soon otherwise he will be under pressure whether people like it or not and if being in the cup gets in the way of that then we're better off getting ****** right out of it imo.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

I think the general consensus is that Bell and Mehmeti aren't good enough for this level, but you might see it differently 

Mehmeti more unsuited or at least less room to claw back than Bell probably.  Better structure probably for the side as a whole..sure we've played that front 3 before, less sure of the results however.

[W-S-M Seagull]

29 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I fear we all know what will happen.

In the summer , after landing the players Manning wants and after a good preseason where they bed in and we thrash Mangotsfield Utd, Rochdale and Forest Green Rovers it will all go tits up and LM will be replaced by someone who will equally struggle to balance the wishes of the club and the reality. 
Rinse and repeat. 
 

And this is what makes me feel sick to the stomach. 

Fair enough they wanted rid of Nige. But they totally cocked up on his replacement. They said they wanted a head coach who could come in and take thus group of players forward. To better coach them blah blah blah. To continue upon the work of Pearson. I'd have got right behind that.

We have a decent squad of players. Whilst many laughed at the clubs claims we should be challenging and I did to some extent, I also believed that the right person could get this squad competing for the top 6.

But then we went for Manning. It was clear Manning would not suit the players we have. We've heard all this stuff about how we were looking for someone to play pressing front foot football and that just isn't Manning ball. 

So then we are left with two possibilities, the club didn't know what they were getting with Manning or that they did know and they decided to rip the plan just as that plan was coming to fruition in order to start a new plan. 

The situation we are now in is that we basically have to go down the road of ripping up this decent squad to rebuild it with players that suit Manning with no guarantee that will work and that's what gives me an uneasy feeling. If this goes wrong, which early evidence suggests it may then we're going to be spending another few years rebuilding the squad to shape it into a decent squad again. 

I think the frustrating thing is, it's a very long time since we've appointed a manager where the squad is already in place. He had a great opportunity and up until this point he's blew it. He didn't need to come in and rebuild the squad. Didn't need to develop youth, didn't need to build a culture etc etc. It was all bloody there for him. And because he's failed (until now) and hes their guy he has to be a success so now its "he needs his own players" "he needs a pre season" 

Its so demoralising. 

[Monkeh]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Mehmeti more unsuited or at least less room to claw back than Bell probably.  Better structure probably for the side as a whole..sure we've played that front 3 before, less sure of the results however.

That being said, when bell and Mehmeti came on against Leeds, it was the only time we showed any attacking intent

[supercidered]

13 hours ago, lenred said:

Maybe not.   But I did and I continue to expect us to be top 10 this season.   So if that isn’t achieved (and it wont be at this rate) then that will be on Manning.  And the style of football that we are playing is very much down to him also. So again he will be judged on that.   Let’s hope there’s an upturn soon.  

Agree with this.

However, we keep discussing that the current squad isn't Manning's and so he needs to build his own etc, etc. We also keep get told that he wants to play his style but some of our players don't fit that style. So my question is, until the players are what he wants then it is Manning's job to adapt to the situation rather than trying to make a silk purse out a sow's ear. That's what he gets paid to do. From what I see, he seems unable to adapt from his coaching playbook. 

[1960maaan]

5 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

That being said, when bell and Mehmeti came on against Leeds, it was the only time we showed any attacking intent

I always think it's hard judging that period of a game. Leeds 1-0 up, no need to chase the game and thinking of the 3 points. I think teams tend to sit in a little , not by plan or intention , but just naturally thinking of not risking what you've got. That added to we had to throw caution to the wind , we are likely to have more of the game . 

 

[Silvio Dante]

10 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

So then we are left with two possibilities, the club didn't know what they were getting with Manning or that they did know and they decided to rip the plan just as that plan was coming to fruition in order to start a new plan. 

 

 

 

 I think it’s a due diligence piece on both sides, because I can see a rationale where Liam was absolutely the right man to continue from Pearson.

If I said to you that I had a young progressive coach who’d cut his teeth at West Ham and Man City, and then been involved at the top end of the division below with two clubs, then it sounds like a cracking appointment.

I’m not going to repeat all the items about inflexibility, adaptability etc here - but they were all there below the surface with any real due diligence (and again, that’s not saying he won’t succeed but it is a rebuild not a continuity)

Similarly, I absolutely understand Liams reasons for taking the job - big club, level up etc. But I don’t think he did the due diligence on whether the squad fit what he wanted to do or understood how badly his new employers had handled things.

So, I think the club probably didn’t know exactly what they were getting - because I don’t think they were thorough enough in their recruitment. And that doesn’t surprise me with who led it. But it was in plain sight and I think they just looked at face value as opposed to doing a proper job.

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Agree with this.

However, we keep discussing that the current squad isn't Manning's and so he needs to build his own etc, etc. We also keep get told that he wants to play his style but some of our players don't fit that style. So my question is, until the players are what he wants then it is Manning's job to adapt to the situation rather than trying to make a silk purse out a sow's ear. That's what he gets paid to do. From what I see, he seems unable to adapt from his coaching playbook. 

All does my head in when I hear "he needs his own players" 

The new Plymouth manager came in and despite it not being his squad he's doing decent with them. They are now 2 points behind us with a game in hand. 

Rob Edwards went in at Luton last November and despite it not being his squad, he got them promoted. 

There are plenty more examples of managers going into clubs and doing well with the existing squad. 

But because Manning is the chosen one, the golden boy he gets given a free pass apparently. 

[mozo]

24 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Exactly. Liam has had some good games and some poor ones so far, a real mixed bag. The one consistent element, however, is we certainly haven't been playing FRONT FOOT FOOTBALL. Anyone who says that is talking utter bollocks and in denial. Friday was actually the complete opposite.....it was back foot "try and survive for a 0-0" football..........AT HOME. That performance took me back two years and there are no excuses for that when the squad we have is not even close to being as poor, any more, to justify getting so comprehensively out-thought, out-muscled and outplayed. Similarly with individual players some have improved (e.g. Tanner), some have not really changed at all (e.g. Max) and others have regressed alarmingly such as Sam Bell and, I would argue albeit less alarmingly, even Conway. Again, a really mixed bag that is bordering at the lower end of achievement generally.

I hope for you that you get to see a decent game on Wednesday but personally I couldn't give a toss about what happens at the City Ground and whether we win and get destroyed by an improving Man Utd in the next round and that's the truth. Six weeks without a win in the league, our bread and butter, has seen to that I'm afraid. Manning needs to sort out our league form very soon otherwise he will be under pressure whether people like it or not and if being in the cup gets in the way of that then we're better off getting ****** right out of it imo.

I'm pretty sure we're not going to get front foot football of the Klopp gegenpress ilk from Manning.

Manning is trying to transition us from counter attacking to possession based as far as I can tell.