Fuber Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Leabrook said: I don’t think we look weaker. We look just as weak. *with a (near) fully fit squad. Not an injury crisis. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leabrook Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 Just now, Fuber said: *with a (near) fully fit squad. Not an injury crisis. Players are getting injured less under him for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyCity Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 Manning is O'Driscoll. History has been kind to O'Driscoll as he lay the foundations of our academy. Manning inherited a solid squad and really has no excuses. In the strictest sense, I do think he inherited a top six squad - 6th to 11th - but that does include 6th (maybe even 5th if the craziness and luckiness of the Championship went our way and momentum grew). On form-to-date, he's making us worse. His football is ultimately unproductive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, 38MC said: Oh I agree, it’s the tribalism that’s stifling the ability to listen. Certain posters are living or dying by the sword and being dismissive of what should be to all a really concerning home performance where we were utterly outplayed and our reaction was to change personnel and not approach. That to me is a really concerning sign. I was happy with the performance v Coventry. This was horrific. It really depends on what comes next before I start to panic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leabrook Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 Just now, SydneyCity said: Manning is O'Driscoll. History has been kind to O'Driscoll as he lay the foundations of our academy. Manning inherited a solid squad and really has no excuses. In the strictest sense, I do think he inherited a top six squad - 6th to 11th - but that does include 6th (maybe even 5th if the craziness and luckiness of the Championship went our way and momentum grew). On form-to-date, he's making us worse. His football is ultimately unproductive. This is not a 6th place squad. Nowhere near good enough in the final third 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38MC Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 4 minutes ago, Tomo said: Bang on. I've quoted this previously. It isn't about Nige or Liam loving. It's what the board said when making the change that irritates me claiming that we were top end challengers this season. Agree but again I don’t think that needs to flavour the debate about Manning. I don’t and never did expect him to get us top six and I dismiss that as even a possibility. But I absolutely expect him to set us up to be competitive in every game, and at home set us up to have a fighting chance to win. He gets a big fat F tonight regardless of who came before him, what the board said, and the fact he didn’t change it in the first half concerns me. That he didn’t change during the half time break concerns me, that his reaction was to stick with the same approach but to remove wells and bring on / move players to their natural position (arguments on that front because I think his general playing patters and formation aren’t natural to our squad), but keep the same approach that Leeds had completely nullified, concerns me. He has really left himself open to criticism tonight and if I was BT I would want to be with him for his post-game analysis/review for him to explain some of his in game decisions and thoughts. Because that wasn’t good enough and he’s had a really bad night at the office. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, 38MC said: Oh I agree, it’s the tribalism that’s stifling the ability to listen. Certain posters are living or dying by the sword and being dismissive of what should be to all a really concerning home performance where we were utterly outplayed and our reaction was to change personnel and not approach. That to me is a really concerning sign. I think the day is coming soon, as a lot have been dancing round it, when a LM stay/go thread is put out there in view of performances. I’m kind of sick of the “he’s not got his players” or “give him time” arguments. I’m clear that the review point is end of season (and for avoidance of doubt if no discernable improvement I’d bin him then based on current trajectory as I don’t think there would be a compelling reason to give him funds), but Duff got sacked by Swansea after this number of games. Unlike 10 years ago, we all see every game - the pressure comes quicker. And to be clear that isn’t again a Nige vs Liam thing, it’s a “you took over a playoff contender and what did you do” thing 11 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38MC Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 5 minutes ago, SydneyCity said: Manning is O'Driscoll. For me, he’s Derek McInnes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 8 minutes ago, Leabrook said: Players are getting injured less under him for sure. I mean, sure. Doesn't address the return versus players available element and my main point, but sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38MC Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said: I think the day is coming soon, as a lot have been dancing round it, when a LM stay/go thread is put out there in view of performances. I’m kind of sick of the “he’s not got his players” or “give him time” arguments. I’m clear that the review point is end of season (and for avoidance of doubt if no discernable improvement I’d bin him then based on current trajectory as I don’t think there would be a compelling reason to give him funds), but Duff got sacked by Swansea after this number of games. Unlike 10 years ago, we all see every game - the pressure comes quicker. And to be clear that isn’t again a Nige vs Liam thing, it’s a “you took over a playoff contender and what did you do” thing Yeah sacking any time soon would be baffling. As another poster mentioned as a club we’ve clearly decided we’re safe this season and are eyeing up the next by the way we’ve acted during the window - and I don’t disagree with our approach necessarily. But I need to see him be more proactive and reactionary. It’s going to take some tremendous bad form for us not to start next season with him in charge, and I think he gets the chance to bring in players that suit the budget and improve the squad, but I wouldn’t give him many chances if we start next season badly and he hasn’t shown more ability to impact a game before then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, JBFC II said: Under Pearson we were averaging 1.29 PPG this season, under Manning we are averaging 1.21. That's basically one more win over the course of a season under Pearson. So we've not regressed nor have we improved, we've stayed where we were. We're on to finish with 59/60 points at the end of the season, so absolutely 0 progress from last season as things stand! Pearson 46 * 18 / 14 = 59, but an expectation of improvement with players returning from injury Manning 17 / 15 * 30 (games under him) = 34 plus the 21 points that he started with = 55 with those players back. But one less win is a regression, especially against an expectation of progression. But I can’t be arsed to put too much effort into the debate tonight! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38MC Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Pearson 46 * 18 / 14 = 59, but an expectation of improvement with players returning from injury Manning 17 / 15 * 30 (games under him) = 34 plus the 21 points that he started with = 55 with those players back. But one less win is a regression, especially against an expectation of progression. But I can’t be arsed to put too much effort into the debate tonight! It’s incredible it’s a debate davefevs. It should be a resounding acceptance of a shocker tonight - which can happen, that’s fine - what’s not fine is having no attempt at an answer. If it wasn’t for an excellent performance from Max that was a cricket score tonight. And for all the Max doubters, for him to bounce back from Cov with a game like that… well played that man Edited February 2 by 38MC 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said: He was virtually salivating pre match about the transfer window and future transfer plans He was full of it and tbf good to hear such positivity and if you judged everything purely on his interview , you’d say prepare for take off ! Hes definitely right at the centre of all this and clearly believes Fingers crossed then ! Interesting that he was absolutely clear that they have have been given a percentage of the Antoine and Scott monies to ‘reinvest’ I take it you mean Tinnion in this post, Shelton's? It's not the most optimistic or forward thinking but the hierarchy, I'm losing faith post RG, NP and BT in correct roles issue. Hopefully I'm incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 6 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Pearson 46 * 18 / 14 = 59, but an expectation of improvement with players returning from injury Manning 17 / 15 * 30 (games under him) = 34 plus the 21 points that he started with = 55 with those players back. But one less win is a regression, especially against an expectation of progression. But I can’t be arsed to put too much effort into the debate tonight! I suppose my point was that things aren't markedly worse now than they have been over the past few years under Pearson. We're on track to end this season in exactly the same place we ended last. Manning is no better, nor any worse than Pearson results wise and until the squad is improved that won't change. Considering the high esteem many held Pearson in (saw some on here claiming he was our 3rd best manager in the last 50 years...), nothing (apart from hope) points to us being any further forward under him than we are currently. That doesn't take away from the ridiculous nature of his sacking, and it doesn't make the laughable statements the board came out with after it correct, but it does highlight that much like how Manning isn't underachieving, Pearson wasn't overachieving this season either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyCity Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 31 minutes ago, Leabrook said: This is not a 6th place squad. Nowhere near good enough in the final third We are, remarkably, still only six points off 6th and seven off 5th (admittedly one more game played than most around us). That's not too far off a top six squad - but our form is getting worse because I agree, we are currently nowhere near good enough in the final third. We don't even know what the final third looks like. I put this down to our new way of playing, plus Sykes being out. You could argue that one player being out means we don't have a top six squad i.e. one player out shouldn't affect us that much - but I think we're being affected more by slow, predictable football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, RedReg said: Results aside, the football is so boring to watch Now this is the important point,he’s clearly getting a bunch of younger players in and trying to try to play the city way,so we have to give tinnion time to get it working sorry I meant Manning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 4 minutes ago, SydneyCity said: We are, remarkably, still only six points off 6th and seven off 5th (admittedly one more game played than most around us). That's not too far off a top six squad - but our form is getting worse because I agree, we are currently nowhere near good enough in the final third. We don't even know what the final third looks like. I put this down to our new way of playing, plus Sykes being out. You could argue that one player being out means we don't have a top six squad i.e. one player out shouldn't affect us that much - but I think we're being affected more by slow, predictable football. Sykes is without doubt our biggest threat,as the saying goes you only miss them when they are gone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham76 Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 All this front foot attacking football that we were promised. Tonight was the complete opposite. If Manning doesn’t believe the squad is capable of top 6 he should say so, otherwise he should be accountable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 So let me be clear to those that want to make excuses or will do over the next 24 hours. That was a ******* horror show. No amount of bollox regarding seeing what he’s trying to do, improvements in our players, it’s easy to criticize or work on progress shite will change what was an embarrassment of the highest order available domestically and globally! I don’t see anything that has improved us at all. We had one shot that predictably Mehmeti buggered up. We gave them the ball constantly. We were always under the cosh from two fast running wingers and our goalkeeper was yet again our best player by a million miles. I could go on and on! Wake TFU…. wake up! Our team is awful against anyone challenging particularly at home. We get something from West Ham, because guess the **** what we put one decent ball into Conway and we are subsequently treated to weeks of boring pointless football. The amount of runs being made by the forwards tonight was insane yet our players didn’t try and make the pass instead they turned and went sideways….insanity WE WERE CRAP. Manning knows it, Lansdown knows it, mini me and the three stooges on FBC know it, the entire stadium knows it. @headhunterand his mates in The Dolman were walking after 70 minutes. What am I missing here? Is there something I missed tonight or in the last few weeks? Someone tell me? Please! 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyCity Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 39 minutes ago, 38MC said: For me, he’s Derek McInnes I watch a fair bit of Scottish football. McInnes is a very good, pragmatic manager, in my opinion. Did very well at Aberdeen and currently has a near penniless Kilmarnck sitting in 4th in the SPL. He has a preferred style of play, but is more able to adapt to what he actually has in front of him than Manning. My take on McInnes here was the right manager at the wrong time. Certainly not rose tinted glasses as it was ultimately a failure, but I'm not convinced I'll be looking back at Manning with a similar frame of mind. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38MC Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 (edited) 10 minutes ago, SydneyCity said: I watch a fair bit of Scottish football. McInnes is a very good, pragmatic manager, in my opinion. Did very well at Aberdeen and currently has a near penniless Kilmarnck sitting in 4th in the SPL. He has a preferred style of play, but is more able to adapt to what he actually has in front of him than Manning. My take on McInnes here was the right manager at the wrong time. Certainly not rose tinted glasses as it was ultimately a failure, but I'm not convinced I'll be looking back at Manning with a similar frame of mind. You’ve pretty much summed up why he’s McInnes to me. I think Manning will learn a lot from his time here just as McInnes did, but in both cases I fear these lessons will come as a result of reflection after leaving rather than learning on the job. As a club I simply don’t think we are geared up for a young progressive manager because of the leadership. And the irony is they are desperate to do it with a young progressive manager. Edited February 3 by 38MC 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, luke_bristol said: If we finish 19th JL and BT should go. They should go anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 16 minutes ago, REDOXO said: So let me be clear to those that want to make excuses or will do over the next 24 hours. That was a ******* horror show. No amount of bollox regarding seeing what he’s trying to do, improvements in our players, it’s easy to criticize or work on progress shite will change what was an embarrassment of the highest order available domestically and globally! I don’t see anything that has improved us at all. We had one shot that predictably Mehmeti buggered up. We gave them the ball constantly. We were always under the cosh from two fast running wingers and our goalkeeper was yet again our best player by a million miles. I could go on and on! Wake TFU…. wake up! Our team is awful against anyone challenging particularly at home. We get something from West Ham, because guess the **** what we put one decent ball into Conway and we are subsequently treated to weeks of boring pointless football. The amount of runs being made by the forwards tonight was insane yet our players didn’t try and make the pass instead they turned and went sideways….insanity WE WERE CRAP. Manning knows it, Lansdown knows it, mini me and the three stooges on FBC know it, the entire stadium knows it. @headhunterand his mates in The Dolman were walking after 70 minutes. What am I missing here? Is there something I missed tonight or in the last few weeks? Someone tell me? Please! Even I as a fan that watches the game under the influence of a few beers can see that by playing 3 at the back and playing McCrorie and Pring as wingbacks. That left pockets for the Leeds wingers to exploit over and over again. As soon as our wing backs got forward and we lost the ball we were in trouble down the wings. Their wingers had the freedom of Ashton Gate due to this. Surely if I could see this then the highly paid people can see this? Wtf do out analysts do? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 Lets face it please. I consider myself pretty level headed yet passionate about City, but that was awful tonight. We looked in awe and dare I say it paralysed by being over-coached by a well-intentioned, and probably highly skilled Liam Manning - who, for me, is wrong guy, wrong time, wrong club. The identity we strive for has never been further away, and the grit and determination that got us through the mess post Johnson/Holden has disintegrated. Whilst I am at it, is anyone else really irritated at the brain-washing the club puts on a futile cup run?! We are not going to win the thing and yet its our everything as we slip down the league. Emperors Clothes stuff. It cost us promotion in my view in 17/18, and is taking our eye off the real ball now. I would rather have lost 6-0 at West Ham and taken a 1-0 win at Preston. Good for the kids and social media I guess. Weird club we are at the moment. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, mozo said: Manning's in a sticky situation now. We've got a punishing schedule, fatigued players, low confidence, supporters turning.... What does he do? He's got to rotate players. He needs Twine and Sykes to come in and hit top form or some other big twist of fate. Never mind Twine and Sykes. If he can't get the players available playing better than this,then he isn't up to the job . His predecessor had a far more lengthy injury list and paid the price for it. And he was doing better. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyCity Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 15 minutes ago, 38MC said: You’ve pretty much summed up why he’s McInnes to me. I think Manning will learn a lot from his time here just as McInnes did, but in both cases I fear these lessons will come as a result of reflection after leaving rather than learning on the job. As a club I simply don’t think we are geared up for a young progressive manager because of the leadership. And the irony is they are desperate to do it with a young progressive manager. Ah, I see what you're saying. Yes very good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, Leabrook said: Players are getting injured less under him for sure. Because they aren't as committed? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 52 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I take it you mean Tinnion in this post, Shelton's? It's not the most optimistic or forward thinking but the hierarchy, I'm losing faith post RG, NP and BT in correct roles issue. Hopefully I'm incorrect. Sorry Mr P , yes BT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, 38MC said: Yeah sacking any time soon would be baffling. Not anywhere near as baffling as the last one. 5 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 11 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: Even I as a fan that watches the game under the influence of a few beers can see that by playing 3 at the back and playing McCrorie and Pring as wingbacks. That left pockets for the Leeds wingers to exploit over and over again. As soon as our wing backs got forward and we lost the ball we were in trouble down the wings. Their wingers had the freedom of Ashton Gate due to this. Surely if I could see this then the highly paid people can see this? Wtf do out analysts do? Exac*******ly Our team inevitably lost the ball because they are told to hang on and pass it. While we have players further forward who will never get back. Its toss! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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