5 wins in 18 games….dreadful!

[Charlie BCFC]

I wish we got to see this scintillating football people are telling us we played under Pearson on this forum

[Shauntaylor85]

Just now, Charlie BCFC said:

I wish we got to see this scintillating football people are telling us we played under Pearson on this forum

Swansea away, did you go? 

[Jose]

Just now, Charlie BCFC said:

I wish we got to see this scintillating football people are telling us we played under Pearson on this forum

Find me a post with someone saying that was the case. I look forward to it. 

[Red Exile]

3 minutes ago, Floatn Over said:

the future has no expiry / judgement date.

Too true, I think we can all recall talk of Prem ambitions being 'the future' after our Play-Off run back in...when was it...2008? Well 16 years later and 'the future' still seems a long way off

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Charlie BCFC said:

I wish we got to see this scintillating football people are telling us we played under Pearson on this forum

Who has said , ever said ,  ? we played ‘scintillating football’ under NP

 

What a strange comment 

[Shauntaylor85]

35 minutes ago, Jacki said:

I’ve read this thread with interest and this is where I am. I try to be positive and constructive but that was absolutely dreadful last night. We let Leeds play, every time we got the ball we gave it away and there was no pace of purpose to anything we did. That wasn’t the first time that’s happened under Manning… Millwall at home springs to mind and there have been others. I just don’t buy the fact that performances have improved.

I listened to some of the Tinnion interview last night and he was very bullish about what we’re doing and what we’re bringing in. It was interesting to hear him talking about Conway’s contract as well. But, ultimately, I came away from listening to that thinking that we will be going for some of the better players in League One and some mid table Championship players and won’t be any further forward next year. It’s what we do.

For me, we are a mid table club to our core. We have mid table players and that’s what we’ll be bringing in in the summer. If any of our players show form that is head and shoulders above that, we’ll sell them on and replace them with someone less talented like we always do. And, if it goes a bit wrong and with the lack of successful Championship experience at the top of the club, there is a danger that we will end up in a relegation battle at some point in the next season or two.

There is no sign of meaningful progression whatsoever and I am so bored of it. 

Yes we will forever be a mid table champ club and I’m sure will end up back in league one sooner than we think. All this PL talk has to stop from the club unless they change strategy. Hull are showing they want to be a PL club. 

[Charlie BCFC]

Just now, Shauntaylor85 said:

Swansea away, did you go? 

I did we played well, I can name atleast three games under Manning where we played better than that 

[Charlie BCFC]

Just now, Sheltons Army said:

Who has said , ever said ,  ? we played ‘scintillating football’ under NP

 

What a strange comment 

We’ll just look at this thread where people seem to think we were this incredible team, I’d much rather watch us now. 

[Jose]

Just now, Charlie BCFC said:

We’ll just look at this thread where people seem to think we were this incredible team, I’d much rather watch us now. 

Again you’re making things up to suit your argument. 

[bearded_red]

Nothing more simplistic than the straw man argument of ‘I must have missed all the great football under Pearson’. 
 

Not one person is saying it was anything special, what they are saying, and I completely agree, is that it was better. It was faster, it was more watchable and when we played well it could actually be quite exciting. That’s so much better than the dreary, tedious garbage we now get subjected to.

And much, much more importantly as we’re talking about a sport judged on results, it suited our squad much better.

Edited February 3 by bearded_red

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, Charlie BCFC said:

We’ll just look at this thread where people seem to think we were this incredible team, I’d much rather watch us now. 

So , you made it up basically

How would you rate last nights performance ?

I wouldn’t judge Manning purely on last night and hope it was an outlier , because IMHO it’s a long time since I saw us such a shambles and nigh on humiliated , luckily the scoreline didn’t reflect that.

It truly was a horror show from LM and through the side.

 

Still waiting to see what develops under LM but last night wasn’t one to install any belief or confidence 

 

[Charlie BCFC]

2 minutes ago, Jose said:

Again you’re making things up to suit your argument. 

Not at all, I’ve seen so much about how good we were under Pearson (I have nothing against him) but our expectations for him were very low. If you look at how we played at Leicester compared to last night, there was zero negativity after we played Leicester when we parked the bus all game and lost vs Leeds where we were poor but Manning is getting pelters. No consistency at all with this flip flop fanbase

[Shauntaylor85]

9 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

We’ll just look at this thread where people seem to think we were this incredible team, I’d much rather watch us now. 

How do you quantify that? Have you counted the chances and goals we scored? Because it’s dire. 

[Charlie BCFC]

3 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

So , you made it up basically

How would you rate last nights performance ?

I wouldn’t judge Manning purely on last night and hope it was an outlier , because IMHO it’s a long time since I saw us such a shambles and nigh on humiliated , luckily the scoreline didn’t reflect that.

It truly was a horror show from LM and through the side.

 

Still waiting to see what develops under LM but last night wasn’t one to install any belief or confidence 

 

We were poor last night, Leeds were very good and didn’t make it easy but when we had the ball we didn’t use it well enough. However think that’s a rare poor performance under LM, Coventry mid week we were very good and should’ve got all 3 points for example

Just now, Shauntaylor85 said:

How do you quantify that? Have you counted the chances and goals we scored? Because it’s dire. 

That was a problem before Manning, our forwards aren’t good enough. Hence why two have been brought in on loan to add quality 

[Sheltons Army]

11 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

We were poor last night, Leeds were very good and didn’t make it easy but when we had the ball we didn’t use it well enough. However think that’s a rare poor performance under LM, Coventry mid week we were very good and should’ve got all 3 points for example

That was a problem before Manning, our forwards aren’t good enough. Hence why two have been brought in on loan to add quality 

We weren’t ‘poor’ , we were abysmal , we looked like a L2 side playing Liverpool .

I hope that the 3 day turnaround had a major negative effect , because I was actually shocked by what a Complete shambles we looked 

Edited February 3 by Sheltons Army

[FNQ]

10 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Not at all, I’ve seen so much about how good we were under Pearson (I have nothing against him) but our expectations for him were very low. If you look at how we played at Leicester compared to last night, there was zero negativity after we played Leicester when we parked the bus all game and lost vs Leeds where we were poor but Manning is getting pelters. No consistency at all with this flip flop fanbase

So you honestly think our performance away to Leicester was as bad as last night? We were certainly up against a very good Leicester side, but we gave them a game.. last night we just embarrassed ourselves, it was utter garbage.

[S_C]

Time to stop talking about Pearson now, for me. Those who didn’t like him will defend Manning, those who did will use Pearson as a reference point at every opportunity. It’s divisive and unhelpful, it is without question the fault of JL/BT who mismanaged his exit, setting ridiculous expectations for a coach with no experience at this level, that should not be forgotten, but unfortunately fans have to be the adults and move on from a manager who was not getting a new contract regardless.

Last night was really poor. As others have said, alarm comes from the game simply playing out as it was clear early it would, with a result that never looked in doubt, with little to nothing done to remedy the tide. That is a worry. But Manning is young, he isn’t going anywhere, faith must be placed that he, and we, are a different prospect next season.

The good news is, I suspect we will be. Broadly speaking January was a good window. Ironically Twine, which is the most noteworthy recruit, is the most questionable, seeming to serve more to assist JL/BT in their post Pearson fantasies/falsehoods than actually be part of direction of travel. Tinnion alluded to it last night, think a couple of fees/names are likely in the summer. They have to be. To not provide Manning with every opportunity to meet their expectations is self-harm. Manning will have a strong squad and a pre-season, by August everyone on here will be talking play-offs.

For a club that has recently appointed Lee Johnson and Dean Holden, Liam Manning, though inexperienced, is plenty experienced. His success in lower leagues is justification enough for a mid-table championship club. Is it justification for a top 6 championship club, perhaps not, but then that isn’t what we are, at least certainly not with a  half season manager taking his first job at this level. Manning needs patience and understanding, unfortunately that means putting Pearson in the past.

[pongo88]

10 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think the day is coming soon, as a lot have been dancing round it, when a LM stay/go thread is put out there in view of performances. I’m kind of sick of the “he’s not got his players” or “give him time” arguments.

I’m clear that the review point is end of season (and for avoidance of doubt if no discernable improvement I’d bin him then based on current trajectory as I don’t think there would be a compelling reason to give him funds), but Duff got sacked by Swansea after this number of games. Unlike 10 years ago, we all see every game - the pressure comes quicker. And to be clear that isn’t again a Nige vs Liam thing, it’s a “you took over a playoff contender and what did you do” thing 

Unfortunate we’ve got Steve Lansdown, Jon Lansdown and Brian Tinnion. They’re not a trio to admit they were wrong so unless there is an unbelievable set of poor results for the rest of the season I’m sure Manning will survive. That said, City are currently 23rd in the form table with 3 points from 6 games. If that continues then I might be wrong about Manning’s survival 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

What do you mean by 'it'. There's no debate that the performance was awful. There's definitely a debate that we should take that performance (off the back of us outplaying Coventry at their place) as some sort of proof that manager is going to fail.

Well let's become one of those clubs that keeps chopping and changing the manager and see how that works out. 

Forget about Pearson. Forget about the top 6 bollocks. What objectively is the best thing to do with a new manager. Give them time? Or pile pressure on them after 3/4 months?

We didn’t outplay Coventry imho.  We did for 22 minutes, the opening 22 minutes.  They didn’t outplay us either.  But they caused us more problems over the remaining 3/4s of the game than we caused them.  Their final ball was poor, something we often bemoan us for.  But I thought it was a decent enough performance against a good opponent.

For a headcoach who wants his teams to control possession / dominate the ball, we have a funny way of showing it.  We actually have less possession than under Nige.  In recent games we also seem incapable of even knocking it around the backline.

3 hours ago, the1stknowle said:

This is how I feel - I'm fully behind Manning, can see promise in certain things we do, am frustrated by others, but enjoying watching how things might evolve and how what is clearly a sharp young manager might evolve with us. And, personally, I'd love him to have chance to manage a club where all fans are genuinely behind him for a bit.

But, I also feel, little point saying it on forum currently because to me this place just feels like a confirmation bias bubble ready to jump on everything and anything to slate club, Manning, JL and Tinns and to eulogise about the glorious football under Nige. That Leeds game last night actually really reminded me of a lot of games under Nige where it felt like we'd accepted we'd just go through the motions against a team demonstrably better than us. Scroll back through the Nige-time match threads for similar sentiments among a wide range of supporters.. 

I'm writing this not to change any minds and definitely not to get involved in the 'you're wrong' comments that follow. But only to say there are people like me that are nowhere near 'Manning out' and aren't walking through footballing life in despair at Nige's departure and Manning's appointment. There is clearly an attempt to play in a certain way now and when it does work (the three FA Cup prem games) its been better to watch than any City team in a long time. Im even enjoying watching our centre backs really try to stick to the play out from back rules even when they always look like they're a split second from giving the ball away each time they have to pass to a team mate ahead of them. 

Hope club sticks course and, with the decision made, they ignore the nonsense, back manager for a reasonable period of time, and give their plan a chance. They will have to put up with a section of fan base saying 'top six squad apparently' every five minutes, but if that's enough to sway them then there's no point in them making any plan.

It reminded me of very few Nige team performances once he got the wasters out in summer of 2021.  The worry for me is that we’ve had quite a few already from Manning’s teams and he’s only been here 3 months.

Some of that will be embedding his style, but it actually feels like we started to feel his improvements and we are now going backwards.

I don’t have a warm, fuzzy feeling at the mo’, but nor am I impatient.  But there is a helluva lot to critique currently.  It certainly isn’t rosy.

[the1stknowle]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

It reminded me of very few Nige team performances once he got the wasters out in summer of 2021.

Slightly off topic but I’ll give you many less examples in 22-23. But post summer of 21 was the 21-22 season and all those away games that were exactly like that last night - Barnsley, forest, sheff Utd, def Birmingham, Blackpool, Fulham and west brom thrashings. 
 

But even in 2022-23, there were those games like the two Burnley games or reading away where it just went completely flat and felt defeated throughout. That to me is what last night felt like. Let’s also be fair that Leeds are half decent and full of multi million pound players. 
 

Don’t think anyone has a warm and fuzzy feeling right now. But where I differ from a lot on here is that I am pretty optimistic about general direction of travel and am willing to be patient. Hope club are too. 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

Slightly off topic but I’ll give you many less examples in 22-23. But post summer of 21 was the 21-22 season and all those away games that were exactly like that last night - Barnsley, forest, sheff Utd, def Birmingham, Blackpool, Fulham and west brom thrashings. 
 

But even in 2022-23, there were those games like the two Burnley games or reading away where it just went completely flat and felt defeated throughout. That to me is what last night felt like. Let’s also be fair that Leeds are half decent and full of multi million pound players. 
 

Don’t think anyone has a warm and fuzzy feeling right now. But where I differ from a lot on here is that I am pretty optimistic about general direction of travel and am willing to be patient. Hope club are too. 

My response back is that games like Burnley last season, we were out-passed, but not carved open, not out-battled.

Brum (a) last season was shit.

[kit]

The direction of travel at the moment under manning is backwards.

The football to my eye in the main has been mindnumbingly boring, combine that with it being mostly unsuccessful results wise then it doesn't really make for happy viewing.

The Watford game was excellent but the six league games since then have been very poor, and to be honest most of the games preceding the Watford game were also pretty poor. Last night was another level and really should have been a drubbing.

My patience is fast running out with manning, I think I've seen enough to think that we've got enough to get the 12 or so points to the end of the season to not get sucked into a relegation fight, but beyond that I've seen nothing that fills me with much hope. I could still be wrong on that front yet.

[tin]

6 hours ago, the1stknowle said:

Genuine question - is our recruitment not good at the moment? What's the disappointment exactly?

I didn’t say our recruitment wasn’t good; I inferred we recruited to a template. For example, youngsters who’ve played 100+ games in the lower leagues. It seems very much sign by template, rather than think out of the box. 

While that has some merit, look at Summerville as an example of thinking out of the box. He didn’t play a single game for Feyenoord but came onto Leeds’ radar after two loan spells in Holland. When was the last time we made a signing like that? 

Our net is cast particularly wide IMO.

[Monkeh]

6 hours ago, Charlie BCFC said:

We were poor last night, Leeds were very good and didn’t make it easy but when we had the ball we didn’t use it well enough. However think that’s a rare poor performance under LM, Coventry mid week we were very good and should’ve got all 3 points for example

That was a problem before Manning, our forwards aren’t good enough. Hence why two have been brought in on loan to add quality 

For strikers to score you need to create chances

We don't we get in a position where a striker makes a run and the player turns around and passes back to the defence instead of probing

Put Conway or Wells in that Leeds side last night and it would of been 5 or 6 nil

[Silvio Dante]

40 minutes ago, tin said:

While that has some merit, look at Summerville as an example of thinking out of the box. He didn’t play a single game for Feyenoord but came onto Leeds’ radar after two loan spells in Holland.

They couldn’t leave him that way.

[mozo]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We didn’t outplay Coventry imho.  We did for 22 minutes, the opening 22 minutes.  They didn’t outplay us either.  But they caused us more problems over the remaining 3/4s of the game than we caused them.  Their final ball was poor, something we often bemoan us for.  But I thought it was a decent enough performance against a good opponent.

I think we at least edged it, and I don't think it's fair that we go from a decent performance against a good opponent to within a week assuming that Manning is failing at his job (which a lot of people are claiming). It's fun when it all gets hysterical on here, but I think the sensible reflection is to give it time (whether we like it or not).

[the1stknowle]

3 hours ago, tin said:

I didn’t say our recruitment wasn’t good; I inferred we recruited to a template. For example, youngsters who’ve played 100+ games in the lower leagues. It seems very much sign by template, rather than think out of the box. 

While that has some merit, look at Summerville as an example of thinking out of the box. He didn’t play a single game for Feyenoord but came onto Leeds’ radar after two loan spells in Holland. When was the last time we made a signing like that? 

Our net is cast particularly wide IMO.

Errr. Alex Scott??

[tin]

13 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

Errr. Alex Scott??

Did than come from our recruitment team or from SL’s Guernsey link?  

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

Errr. Alex Scott??

32 minutes ago, tin said:

Did than come from our recruitment team or from SL’s Guernsey link?  

Yes, we’d sent Jake Andrews and Cam Pring on loan to Guernsey under Tony Vance.  He returned the favour by sending Tins videos and stuff and got a trial arranged.

We didn’t scout / identify Scott per se, we got “handed him” in effect.

[the1stknowle]

1 hour ago, tin said:

Did than come from our recruitment team or from SL’s Guernsey link?  

Is that not exactly the outside the box thinking you want though? 

I mean, if you want another example literally our latest signing was a very highly rated youngster who hadn’t played a game for the team he came up through and has been recruited from a Benelux league. And perhaps, like Summerville, it might take a bit of time for him to adapt and thrive.

I’m not trying to be argumentative but I honestly don’t see the 100 appearances in lower leagues model. Mccrorie, Dickie, Knight, Bird - all substantial Champ/SPL experience. In one case an established international. Or your counting Champ as lower leagues?

Who did you have in mind when talking about the prototype recruit we now go for? 
 

And look, if Summerville is your point of reference, then that means Leeds recruitment is what you’re saying you admire. So what about Rutter? Or Augustin? Or Roca? Or Mckennie? Or Koch? Or Woeber? Or are you just saying you wish we had a player like Summerville? Because that I can get on board with and wholeheartedly agree with.